Abortion????

[QUOTE="Choga"][QUOTE="crackajacks"][QUOTE="Choga"][QUOTE="Atrus"][QUOTE="Choga"]

You sir have just discredited yourself by generalizing a whole entire group of people who share a similar concern. Fetuses are alive because they meet all the biological criteria for life - so you fail. Because I am pro-life I dont care about people who die from Malaria? Very ignorant of you. What cheapens life is pro-choicers so arrogantly defining life beyond biological terms. Life doesnt not have to be "meaningful" or "sapient" to be characterized as life. If this flawed definition of life (sapience) were to be applied to all living things - then we could justify the mass slaughter of tolders because they most certainly cannot act with wisdom or judgement.

crackajacks

Again, retreating to an argument ad absurdum. You call yourself "pro-life" when all you mean is "pro-human life that is in your immediate vicinity".

If you really gave a damn about life, your efforts would be directed at the greatest injustices to life overall. Like I said before, I could understand it if you were a Jainist fundamentalist, but you're not. The North American Judeo-Christian standpoint is a "for show" egotistical effort.

It's simple economics. If you really cared about life your efforts would be dedicated to the sustaining of the life that currently suffers. You might ask, why not spread that assistance around? But since everything less that the greatest orders of severity means a focus on actions resulting in fewer lives taken, it means that you move away from pro-life toward pro-ego.

For you to be debating the 'life' of the aborted instead of say... the millions who die from war, famine, and disease means a shift away from pro-life toward a stance of pro-ego. One like I pointed to in someone elses post is typically nationalistic. Seperating humans by virtue of where they are born.

If you cared so much about the life of children there are plenty of orphens around the world to be adopted or looked after. 14 million from sub-saharan Africa alone. Yet instead of chipping away at that, you would rather more be added to the burden, because of a viewpoint that strongly favours one probable nationals life over countless other already existing foreigners.

Failure again. I care about ALL life sir. You show your stupidity and ignorance by ASSUMING that I am Christian, and that the only life I care about is the unborn one. And what exactly do you mean by my efforts? Like I can accually go and single-handedly stop war or famine? Get real. I am also quite nationalistic, but that does not mean I dont value life in general. And do you honestly expect me to adopt a child from Africa? Somebody who is still living with their parents? I think not. There are many pro-life organizations that send missionaries and aid to third-world regions in the world, but you conveniently choose to ignore that, because pro-lifers are ignorant. :D What a hypocrite

Those missonaries preach gods word, they have been preaching to the africans how contraceptives are wrong which has helped caused the spread of AIDS. Keep calling people names, it helps your argument.

I was called a name first, so I think its only fair I retaliate. And the Africans dont have to believe contraception is bad. If I told you that eating is bad, would you stop eating? I think not. To ignore all of the humanitarian efforts of those organizations is quite ignorant.

Your right, we should recoginize all they have done to help the africans and it is the africans fault for following what they say that it wrong. Or mabey the missonaries should leave it up to smarter organizations.

Ahhh, arrogance at its finest. Why are these missionaries stupid? Are they stupid because they are SINCERE about helping people? Are they stupid because they DO NOT FORCE people to be Christians? You put it perfectly: "it is the africans fault for following what they say that is wrong".

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]My argument never was that sperm can become humans on their own. You might want to re-read everything I've said. I've said that they're human possibilities and genetic possibilities, not that they'll grow into humans on their own. Where do you keep getting that from?:| Why worry about what they're doing? Because you might have been aborted? You wouldn't be here worrying about it if you were and you would have no idea what was going on as an embryo. I don't think you can speak for the situation that every single couple is in. If you are against abortion, don't have one and encourage others around you not to, however not everyone has the same stance on it as you, nor a feeling that human life has some sanctity at the embryonic level. The feelings and suffering of the couple is much more significant.crackajacks

You are saying that they are possibilities, and I agree, they are. However, it is not killing if they die, because when they mix, the fertilized egg is guaranteed (unless a miscarriage occurs) to become a child. No possibilities about it.

I might have been aborted, but that's not why I care. Why is adoption such a horrible idea? If you were raped, put the kid up for adoption. In that case, you can change your mind later if you'd like, you can name the kid, or you never even have to see it or hear about it. Either way, you don't have to deal with an unwanted baby, and you don't have to go through the horrible psychological trauma of abortion. Also, somebody who wants a baby but is, say, infertile, can have one.

That is not the case. There are a lot more kids in orphanages than there are being adopted. There is also a lot of abuse in orphanges. After abortion was legalized 17 years later crime went down. Thats because those kids are at the highest risk for crime.

My parents adopted me because they were infertile, so I think that is the case.

[QUOTE="crackajacks"][QUOTE="Choga"][QUOTE="crackajacks"][QUOTE="Choga"][QUOTE="Atrus"][QUOTE="Choga"]

You sir have just discredited yourself by generalizing a whole entire group of people who share a similar concern. Fetuses are alive because they meet all the biological criteria for life - so you fail. Because I am pro-life I dont care about people who die from Malaria? Very ignorant of you. What cheapens life is pro-choicers so arrogantly defining life beyond biological terms. Life doesnt not have to be "meaningful" or "sapient" to be characterized as life. If this flawed definition of life (sapience) were to be applied to all living things - then we could justify the mass slaughter of tolders because they most certainly cannot act with wisdom or judgement.

Choga

Again, retreating to an argument ad absurdum. You call yourself "pro-life" when all you mean is "pro-human life that is in your immediate vicinity".

If you really gave a damn about life, your efforts would be directed at the greatest injustices to life overall. Like I said before, I could understand it if you were a Jainist fundamentalist, but you're not. The North American Judeo-Christian standpoint is a "for show" egotistical effort.

It's simple economics. If you really cared about life your efforts would be dedicated to the sustaining of the life that currently suffers. You might ask, why not spread that assistance around? But since everything less that the greatest orders of severity means a focus on actions resulting in fewer lives taken, it means that you move away from pro-life toward pro-ego.

For you to be debating the 'life' of the aborted instead of say... the millions who die from war, famine, and disease means a shift away from pro-life toward a stance of pro-ego. One like I pointed to in someone elses post is typically nationalistic. Seperating humans by virtue of where they are born.

If you cared so much about the life of children there are plenty of orphens around the world to be adopted or looked after. 14 million from sub-saharan Africa alone. Yet instead of chipping away at that, you would rather more be added to the burden, because of a viewpoint that strongly favours one probable nationals life over countless other already existing foreigners.

Failure again. I care about ALL life sir. You show your stupidity and ignorance by ASSUMING that I am Christian, and that the only life I care about is the unborn one. And what exactly do you mean by my efforts? Like I can accually go and single-handedly stop war or famine? Get real. I am also quite nationalistic, but that does not mean I dont value life in general. And do you honestly expect me to adopt a child from Africa? Somebody who is still living with their parents? I think not. There are many pro-life organizations that send missionaries and aid to third-world regions in the world, but you conveniently choose to ignore that, because pro-lifers are ignorant. :D What a hypocrite

Those missonaries preach gods word, they have been preaching to the africans how contraceptives are wrong which has helped caused the spread of AIDS. Keep calling people names, it helps your argument.

I was called a name first, so I think its only fair I retaliate. And the Africans dont have to believe contraception is bad. If I told you that eating is bad, would you stop eating? I think not. To ignore all of the humanitarian efforts of those organizations is quite ignorant.

Your right, we should recoginize all they have done to help the africans and it is the africans fault for following what they say that it wrong. Or mabey the missonaries should leave it up to smarter organizations.

Ahhh, arrogance at its finest. Why are these missionaries stupid? Are they stupid because they are SINCERE about helping people? Are they stupid because they DO NOT FORCE people to be Christians? You put it perfectly: "it is the africans fault for following what they say that is wrong".

Does my arrogance reach you all the way up on your moral high horse, the missonaries are stupid for preaching stupid things, like contraceptives are wrong which has spread aids. No they arent stupid because they dont force people to be christains, they are stupid because they try to make people christains instead of just helping them. The africans can make thier own religious decisions.

[QUOTE="Choga"][QUOTE="crackajacks"][QUOTE="Choga"][QUOTE="crackajacks"][QUOTE="Choga"][QUOTE="Atrus"][QUOTE="Choga"]

You sir have just discredited yourself by generalizing a whole entire group of people who share a similar concern. Fetuses are alive because they meet all the biological criteria for life - so you fail. Because I am pro-life I dont care about people who die from Malaria? Very ignorant of you. What cheapens life is pro-choicers so arrogantly defining life beyond biological terms. Life doesnt not have to be "meaningful" or "sapient" to be characterized as life. If this flawed definition of life (sapience) were to be applied to all living things - then we could justify the mass slaughter of tolders because they most certainly cannot act with wisdom or judgement.

crackajacks

Again, retreating to an argument ad absurdum. You call yourself "pro-life" when all you mean is "pro-human life that is in your immediate vicinity".

If you really gave a damn about life, your efforts would be directed at the greatest injustices to life overall. Like I said before, I could understand it if you were a Jainist fundamentalist, but you're not. The North American Judeo-Christian standpoint is a "for show" egotistical effort.

It's simple economics. If you really cared about life your efforts would be dedicated to the sustaining of the life that currently suffers. You might ask, why not spread that assistance around? But since everything less that the greatest orders of severity means a focus on actions resulting in fewer lives taken, it means that you move away from pro-life toward pro-ego.

For you to be debating the 'life' of the aborted instead of say... the millions who die from war, famine, and disease means a shift away from pro-life toward a stance of pro-ego. One like I pointed to in someone elses post is typically nationalistic. Seperating humans by virtue of where they are born.

If you cared so much about the life of children there are plenty of orphens around the world to be adopted or looked after. 14 million from sub-saharan Africa alone. Yet instead of chipping away at that, you would rather more be added to the burden, because of a viewpoint that strongly favours one probable nationals life over countless other already existing foreigners.

Failure again. I care about ALL life sir. You show your stupidity and ignorance by ASSUMING that I am Christian, and that the only life I care about is the unborn one. And what exactly do you mean by my efforts? Like I can accually go and single-handedly stop war or famine? Get real. I am also quite nationalistic, but that does not mean I dont value life in general. And do you honestly expect me to adopt a child from Africa? Somebody who is still living with their parents? I think not. There are many pro-life organizations that send missionaries and aid to third-world regions in the world, but you conveniently choose to ignore that, because pro-lifers are ignorant. :D What a hypocrite

Those missonaries preach gods word, they have been preaching to the africans how contraceptives are wrong which has helped caused the spread of AIDS. Keep calling people names, it helps your argument.

I was called a name first, so I think its only fair I retaliate. And the Africans dont have to believe contraception is bad. If I told you that eating is bad, would you stop eating? I think not. To ignore all of the humanitarian efforts of those organizations is quite ignorant.

Your right, we should recoginize all they have done to help the africans and it is the africans fault for following what they say that it wrong. Or mabey the missonaries should leave it up to smarter organizations.

Ahhh, arrogance at its finest. Why are these missionaries stupid? Are they stupid because they are SINCERE about helping people? Are they stupid because they DO NOT FORCE people to be Christians? You put it perfectly: "it is the africans fault for following what they say that is wrong".

Does my arrogance reach you all the way up on your moral high horse, the missonaries are stupid for preaching stupid things, like contraceptives are wrong which has spread aids. No they arent stupid because they dont force people to be christains, they are stupid because they try to make people christains instead of just helping them. The africans can make thier own religious decisions.

Just because you call what they preach stupid, does not make it so. What is wrong with trying to convert people? These people have the OPTION of CHOOSING to be Christian or not. Africans can make their own religious decisions, but the way you are describing it, you make it seem as though they cannot.

If you were not calling me Judeo-Christian, what is the point of mentioning them? It is quite obvious I do not associate myself with them. You said I should concentrate MY efforts to stoping war and famine. That means you expect ME to do something about things that are out of my control.

You claim that I don't have the right to excuse myself from the hypocrisy of others? I am an INDIVIDUAL with INDIVIDUAL beliefs that differ from the majority. So you fail again because I don't associate myself with any organizations who are "pro-life". I use the term "pro-life" because it is the term commonly used to describe the beleif that abortion is wrong.

Choga

The point is to associate the Western pro-life movement under the banner in which they address it. Why do you assume that abortion is something within your control and that war and famine is not? You were all too quick to ride the coat-tails of other people, but cannot even contribute all the effort you spend on the abortion issue on greater issues?

The term "pro-life" by anyone that isn't focussed on life is hypocritical. Let's say we did abolish abortion. What then? There are 143 million orphans in the world we currently cannot take care of, in addition to that we'll be adding 36 million more orphans in the developing world alone annually. Why? Because for the ignorant, the developing world is responsible for 78% of all abortions. Instead of the many millions dieing yearly we cannot support, we now will have twice than much in 4 years. Hell, we cannot even distribute anti-malarial pills to the current populations as it is, and world health and charity organizations are already hard-pressed.

So without finding a solution to the current problems, you would rather we add to that. Fully cogniscent human beings capable of feeling the emotional impact of dying from war, hunger and disease. Anti-abortionists only care insofar as people are born, because if they were "pro-life" their focus would be elsewhere, namely attending to issues the living face every day after they are born.

So your saying that preaching agianst somthing that is helping curb the AIDS epidemic isnt stupid? I make it sound like they cant make there own decisions? Imagine if you went to the hospital and while you were they they preached to you that your god wasnt real. They preached that Buddah was the only true god and he is saving you. Would you enjoy them telling you constanly about how the jesus was fake. I dont think you would like that.crackajacks

That isn't what missionaries do.

And also, I have never heard of them preaching against contraception. What are you talking about, specifically?

[QUOTE="crackajacks"]So your saying that preaching agianst somthing that is helping curb the AIDS epidemic isnt stupid? I make it sound like they cant make there own decisions? Imagine if you went to the hospital and while you were they they preached to you that your god wasnt real. They preached that Buddah was the only true god and he is saving you. Would you enjoy them telling you constanly about how the jesus was fake. I dont think you would like that.Silver_Dragon17

That isn't what missionaries do.

And also, I have never heard of them preaching against contraception. What are you talking about, specifically?

Catholics dont beleive in contraceptives. Ive read articles talking about how that has been negative on the fight AIDS in africa.

Pro abortion. No one should tell someone else what to do with their body.rudyroundhead

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="crackajacks"]So your saying that preaching agianst somthing that is helping curb the AIDS epidemic isnt stupid? I make it sound like they cant make there own decisions? Imagine if you went to the hospital and while you were they they preached to you that your god wasnt real. They preached that Buddah was the only true god and he is saving you. Would you enjoy them telling you constanly about how the jesus was fake. I dont think you would like that.crackajacks

That isn't what missionaries do.

And also, I have never heard of them preaching against contraception. What are you talking about, specifically?

Catholics dont beleive in contraceptives. Ive read articles talking about how that has been negative on the fight AIDS in africa.

Catholics don't believe in sex period, and you have been saying Christianity this whole time. News flash: Catholics do not represent the whole of Christianity.;)

[QUOTE="Choga"]

If you were not calling me Judeo-Christian, what is the point of mentioning them? It is quite obvious I do not associate myself with them. You said I should concentrate MY efforts to stoping war and famine. That means you expect ME to do something about things that are out of my control.

You claim that I don't have the right to excuse myself from the hypocrisy of others? I am an INDIVIDUAL with INDIVIDUAL beliefs that differ from the majority. So you fail again because I don't associate myself with any organizations who are "pro-life". I use the term "pro-life" because it is the term commonly used to describe the beleif that abortion is wrong.

Atrus

The point is to associate the Western pro-life movement under the banner in which they address it. Why do you assume that abortion is something within your control and that war and famine is not? You were all too quick to ride the coat-tails of other people, but cannot even contribute all the effort you spend on the abortion issue on greater issues?

The term "pro-life" by anyone that isn't focussed on life is hypocritical. Let's say we did abolish abortion. What then? There are 143 million orphans in the world we currently cannot take care of, in addition to that we'll be adding 36 million more orphans in the developing world alone annually. Why? Because for the ignorant, the developing world is responsible for 78% of all abortions. Instead of the many millions dieing yearly we cannot support, we now will have twice than much in 4 years. Hell, we cannot even distribute anti-malarial pills to the current populations as it is, and world health and charity organizations are already hard-pressed.

So without finding a solution to the current problems, you would rather we add to that. Fully cogniscent human beings capable of feeling the emotional impact of dying from war, hunger and disease. Anti-abortionists only care insofar as people are born, because if they were "pro-life" their focus would be elsewhere, namely attending to issues the living face every day after they are born.

You make the same argument over and over again. You say that I only care for unborn babies, while I say I care for life in general. I think it was my fault for using the term "pro-life" so naively. The reason all those orphans are not taken care of is mainly political...and thats a whole 'nother ball game. I am done with you, because you simply cannot comprehend the fact that I DO NOT only care for unborn babies. Good day.

[QUOTE="crackajacks"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="crackajacks"]So your saying that preaching agianst somthing that is helping curb the AIDS epidemic isnt stupid? I make it sound like they cant make there own decisions? Imagine if you went to the hospital and while you were they they preached to you that your god wasnt real. They preached that Buddah was the only true god and he is saving you. Would you enjoy them telling you constanly about how the jesus was fake. I dont think you would like that.Silver_Dragon17

That isn't what missionaries do.

And also, I have never heard of them preaching against contraception. What are you talking about, specifically?

Catholics dont beleive in contraceptives. Ive read articles talking about how that has been negative on the fight AIDS in africa.

Catholics don't believe in sex period, and you have been saying Christianity this whole time. News flash: Catholics do not represent the whole of Christianity.;)

Ive been talking about missonaries the whole time. Its missonaries that have been doing the preaching and the damage on the contraceptives front

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="crackajacks"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

[QUOTE="crackajacks"]So your saying that preaching agianst somthing that is helping curb the AIDS epidemic isnt stupid? I make it sound like they cant make there own decisions? Imagine if you went to the hospital and while you were they they preached to you that your god wasnt real. They preached that Buddah was the only true god and he is saving you. Would you enjoy them telling you constanly about how the jesus was fake. I dont think you would like that.crackajacks

That isn't what missionaries do.

And also, I have never heard of them preaching against contraception. What are you talking about, specifically?

Catholics dont beleive in contraceptives. Ive read articles talking about how that has been negative on the fight AIDS in africa.

Catholics don't believe in sex period, and you have been saying Christianity this whole time. News flash: Catholics do not represent the whole of Christianity.;)

Ive been talking about missonaries the whole time. Its missonaries that have been doing the preaching and the damage on the contraceptives front

So your saying that preaching agianst somthing that is helping curb the AIDS epidemic isnt stupid? I make it sound like they cant make there own decisions? Imagine if you went to the hospital and while you were they they preached to you that your god wasnt real. They preached that Buddah was the only true god and he is saving you. Would you enjoy them telling you constanly about how the jesus was fake. I dont think you would like that.crackajacks

If I went to a hospital and the doctors were telling me that my GODS were'nt real I would simple ignore them. You fail because you assume I am Christian. Try to not be so ignorant next time kay? And like I said, people are not FORCED to believe in something. If they Africans were foolish enough to believe the preaching of the missionaries, then it was their own faults.

Catholics don't believe in sex period, and you have been saying Christianity this whole time. News flash: Catholics do not represent the whole of Christianity.;)

Silver_Dragon17

No, but between Catholics and Evangelicals, these two account for the majority of all missionaries. Both of these have hardline doctrines against the use of contraception.

Ive been talking about missonaries the whole time. Its missonaries that have been doing the preaching and the damage on the contraceptives frontcrackajacks

You also have said something along the lines of missionaries going into people's hospital rooms and saying their god was false. Not true.

I say again: Catholics don't even believe in sex. Could you maybe back up your statement that all missionaries do these things? Or that any of them do?

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

Catholics don't believe in sex period, and you have been saying Christianity this whole time. News flash: Catholics do not represent the whole of Christianity.;)

Atrus

No, but between Catholics and Evangelicals, these two account for the majority of all missionaries. Both of these have hardline doctrines against the use of contraception.

And not all missionaries go against contraception. Whether they are Cathoilic or Evangelical. Besides, why would the Africans they go to just up and listen to everything they say? It is not the sole fault of the missionaries that AIDS has gone up, you know.

You make the same argument over and over again. You say that I only care for unborn babies, while I say I care for life in general. I think it was my fault for using the term "pro-life" so naively. The reason all those orphans are not taken care of is mainly political...and thats a whole 'nother ball game. I am done with you, because you simply cannot comprehend the fact that I DO NOT only care for unborn babies. Good day.

Choga

Suddenly, you turn away from being pro-life under the excuse that it "is mainly political". As if the Abortion issue wasn't couched in any politics whatsoever.

Like I said before, you distinctly seperate issues of life to whatever serves your ego best. Abortion is a pro-life issue, while saving many more lives before or afterward in foreign countries is " a whole 'nother ball game".

If you dig deep enough into an anti-abortionists reasoning, all you'll find is an odious level of preferential ignorance. One that even you cannot find an argument to support.

Having the Christian missionaries, regardless of denomination, being against condoms in AIDS-ridden Africa isn't that big of a blow. Islam has much more influence there than Christianity, though there is of course a small Christian population there. Bottom line is the missionaries aren't making a significant change/lack of change.CptJSparrow

well if a missionary who is preaching against condoms ruins 1 life then thats a significant change.

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]Having the Christian missionaries, regardless of denomination, being against condoms in AIDS-ridden Africa isn't that big of a blow. Islam has much more influence there than Christianity, though there is of course a small Christian population there. Bottom line is the missionaries aren't making a significant change/lack of change.Arsenal140

well if a missionary who is preaching against condoms ruins 1 life then thats a significant change.

Well, if an abortion ruins one life then that is a significant change and should be stopped.

And not all missionaries go against contraception. Whether they are Cathoilic or Evangelical. Besides, why would the Africans they go to just up and listen to everything they say? It is not the sole fault of the missionaries that AIDS has gone up, you know.

Silver_Dragon17

I'll agree. If he meant all missionaries then he's wrong and if he meant that missionaries are the sole reason AID's has gone up then that is wrong too.

The missionaries are a non-critical factor given that medicines, transportation and supplies are more important influences. In addition to inter-ethnic or inter-religious conflicts, the spread of weaponry, drugs, and the lack of established governments. All things considered, there are more pressing issues to deal with.

[QUOTE="Choga"]

You make the same argument over and over again. You say that I only care for unborn babies, while I say I care for life in general. I think it was my fault for using the term "pro-life" so naively. The reason all those orphans are not taken care of is mainly political...and thats a whole 'nother ball game. I am done with you, because you simply cannot comprehend the fact that I DO NOT only care for unborn babies. Good day.

Atrus

Suddenly, you turn away from being pro-life under the excuse that it "is mainly political". As if the Abortion issue wasn't couched in any politics whatsoever.

Like I said before, you distinctly seperate issues of life to whatever serves your ego best. Abortion is a pro-life issue, while saving many more lives before or afterward in foreign countries is " a whole 'nother ball game".

If you dig deep enough into an anti-abortionists reasoning, all you'll find is an odious level of preferential ignorance. One that even you cannot find an argument to support.

I'm sorry but I am not the one confusing what life IS and IS NOT. An abortionist's reasoning to justify the killing of fetuses is that "it is not life". I have proved that fallacy wrong time and time again. How about I don't use the term "pro-life", and switch to "anti-abortion", since you seem to forget that people have distinct and individual beleifs. Saving lives in other countries is another ball game because in many cases, it requires us to go to war and lose MORE lives. We dont have to go to war to do something about Abortion...all we have to do is vote.

[QUOTE="Arsenal140"]

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]Having the Christian missionaries, regardless of denomination, being against condoms in AIDS-ridden Africa isn't that big of a blow. Islam has much more influence there than Christianity, though there is of course a small Christian population there. Bottom line is the missionaries aren't making a significant change/lack of change.Silver_Dragon17

well if a missionary who is preaching against condoms ruins 1 life then thats a significant change.

Well, if an abortion ruins one life then that is a significant change and should be stopped.

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Arsenal140"]

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]Having the Christian missionaries, regardless of denomination, being against condoms in AIDS-ridden Africa isn't that big of a blow. Islam has much more influence there than Christianity, though there is of course a small Christian population there. Bottom line is the missionaries aren't making a significant change/lack of change.CptJSparrow

well if a missionary who is preaching against condoms ruins 1 life then thats a significant change.

Well, if an abortion ruins one life then that is a significant change and should be stopped.

With the reasoning he's using, if one life is ruined by missionaries, then that is significant. Well, I"m using the same reasoning for abortion, as women's lives have certainly been ruined by abortion, just more psychologically than physically.

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]

Well, if an abortion ruins one life then that is a significant change and should be stopped.

Silver_Dragon17

With the reasoning he's using, if one life is ruined by missionaries, then that is significant. Well, I"m using the same reasoning for abortion, as women's lives have certainly been ruined by abortion, just more psychologically than physically.

[QUOTE="Arsenal140"]

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]Having the Christian missionaries, regardless of denomination, being against condoms in AIDS-ridden Africa isn't that big of a blow. Islam has much more influence there than Christianity, though there is of course a small Christian population there. Bottom line is the missionaries aren't making a significant change/lack of change.Silver_Dragon17

well if a missionary who is preaching against condoms ruins 1 life then thats a significant change.

Well, if an abortion ruins one life then that is a significant change and should be stopped.

i value the life of a full grown man/women or a born child more than an unborn baby....but thats just me

Are you for or against Abortion.I myself am for Abortion. I believe as long as its before a certain time the mother should have a choice!Arsenal140

[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Arsenal140"]

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]Having the Christian missionaries, regardless of denomination, being against condoms in AIDS-ridden Africa isn't that big of a blow. Islam has much more influence there than Christianity, though there is of course a small Christian population there. Bottom line is the missionaries aren't making a significant change/lack of change.Arsenal140

well if a missionary who is preaching against condoms ruins 1 life then thats a significant change.

Well, if an abortion ruins one life then that is a significant change and should be stopped.

i value the life of a full grown man/women or a born child more than an unborn baby....but thats just me

The woman can suffer from abortion as well.

I'm sorry but I am not the one confusing what life IS and IS NOT. An abortionist's reasoning to justify the killing of fetuses is that "it is not life". I have proved that fallacy wrong time and time again. How about I don't use the term "pro-life", and switch to "anti-abortion", since you seem to forget that people have distinct and individual beleifs. Saving lives in other countries is another ball game because in many cases, it requires us to go to war and lose MORE lives. We dont have to go to war to do something about Abortion...all we have to do is vote.

Choga

You mean lose more lives of your own "nationationals" because millions of lives would be saved in an effort far easier than say... running around the middle-east with no plan and creating more orphans. In any case, a physical conflict would not be required except in a few African territories. The crisis is not limited to Africa alone, and the Bush administration's "Global Gag Rule" toward organizations that do not support abortion has left many more organizations unable to cope with supporting the sick, and has actually ended up killing more people. Again all thanks to the myopic "here and now" approach of the anti-abortionists.

Anti-abortionist's (if you want to couch it that way) only see life as what is in front of them. They do not know that their actions will contribute to the endangerment of the living, or even care that this rule argued from a global standpoint will kill millions more than already die.

All you have to do is vote, true. Then you can ignore the fact that that very vote contributes to the halting of funds to health organizations in the name of anti-abortionism, so that women who need it can die, and the children they bear can burden the already over-burden institutions in place.

http://www.reproductiverights.org/pub_fac_ggrbush.html

http://www.iwhc.org/global/uspolicy/ggr/index.cfm

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/04/3/gr040301.html

[QUOTE="Arsenal140"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Arsenal140"]

[QUOTE="CptJSparrow"]Having the Christian missionaries, regardless of denomination, being against condoms in AIDS-ridden Africa isn't that big of a blow. Islam has much more influence there than Christianity, though there is of course a small Christian population there. Bottom line is the missionaries aren't making a significant change/lack of change.Silver_Dragon17

well if a missionary who is preaching against condoms ruins 1 life then thats a significant change.

Well, if an abortion ruins one life then that is a significant change and should be stopped.

i value the life of a full grown man/women or a born child more than an unborn baby....but thats just me

The woman can suffer from abortion as well.

she could also benfit as could the grandmother (because she could be the one getting the child dumped on her, as the mother wants to go out and live her life)

she could also benfit as could the grandmother (because she could be the one getting the child dumped on her, as the mother wants to go out and live her life)

Arsenal140

That's not the point. You said that if one person suffers from missionaries, then it is bad. Well, women have suffered from abortions. Therefore, with your own logic, abortions are bad.

[QUOTE="Arsenal140"]

she could also benfit as could the grandmother (because she could be the one getting the child dumped on her, as the mother wants to go out and live her life)

Silver_Dragon17

That's not the point. You said that if one person suffers from missionaries, then it is bad. Well, women have suffered from abortions. Therefore, with your own logic, abortions are bad.