Abortion: what do u think?

[QUOTE="GamerForca"][QUOTE="deeliman"] The fairest way is that the man doesn't get a say in it at all, but that he is not forced to care/pay money for the baby.whipassmt

[QUOTE="deeliman"][QUOTE="whipassmt"] So essentially he has no vote. A more fair way would be to have it were the man has the right to prevent the abortion, but not the right to force it. This way he gets a definite say but he can only use it one direction.GamerForca

[QUOTE="deeliman"][QUOTE="whipassmt"] So essentially he has no vote. A more fair way would be to have it were the man has the right to prevent the abortion, but not the right to force it. This way he gets a definite say but he can only use it one direction.GamerForca

The way I see it, both people are equally as responsible and the law should recognize that. Because if a man gets a woman pregnant, and he doesn't want it, the woman can still choose to have the baby, fair enough. But if a man wants the baby and the woman doesnt want it, she can still get an abortion unilaterally, understandable cause its her body. But if you're going to let a woman unilaterally make such a decision, then it stands to reason that this isnt really a 2 person deal. Now, it makes absolutely no sense to force a woman to carry a baby in her womb for 9 months that she does not want only to give it to the father at the end of the day.

So my suggestion would be that if 2 people have sex, and the woman gets pregnant and wants the baby but the man doesnt, the man should offer to pay for an abortion. If the woman refuses and says she wants to keep the baby, the man should be able to sign away all legal responsibility towards the child and the woman can raise the child on her own without expecting any cash or money. That is the only solution that equally and fairly represents both people as having both played a part in the conception of the child. If the woman really thinks she can raise the child on her own and refuses the abortion, then it is her choice as a responsible adult, and she should be able to take care of it.

By saying the man should just deal with it, you are absolving the woman of any sort of responsibility. Yeah, the guy didnt have to go have sex with the woman, but at the same time, she didnt have to open her legs and let the man ejaculate in her without a condom. If she can unilaterally decide what to do in the situation of a pregnancy, then she should unilaterally deal with the consequences of her decision.

[QUOTE="BranKetra"][QUOTE="GamerForca"] No. If he helped create it, he should help pay for it, even if he didn't want it. You're saying it's okay for men to knock up women left and right, and as long as they don't want her to get pregnant, then the child isn't their responsibility, which is ridiculous. The only say a man should get is to be able to terminate a relationship with a woman who chooses to abort his child. Nothing more.GamerForca

[QUOTE="GamerForca"][QUOTE="BranKetra"] You addressed the actual problem which is people performing intercourse and then expecting a baby to not result from it. When pregnancy occurs, they think they should be able to terminate it for whatever reason they want similar to performing intercourse for whatever reason they want. I think that shows aborting a child for reasons besides health concerns is irresponsible. BranKetra

The way I see it, both people are equally as responsible and the law should recognize that. Because if a man gets a woman pregnant, and he doesn't want it, the woman can still choose to have the baby, fair enough. But if a man wants the baby and the woman doesnt want it, she can still get an abortion unilaterally, understandable cause its her body. But if you're going to let a woman unilaterally make such a decision, then it stands to reason that this isnt really a 2 person deal. Now, it makes absolutely no sense to force a woman to carry a baby in her womb for 9 months that she does not want only to give it to the father at the end of the day.

So my suggestion would be that if 2 people have sex, and the woman gets pregnant and wants the baby but the man doesnt, the man should offer to pay for an abortion. If the woman refuses and says she wants to keep the baby, the man should be able to sign away all legal responsibility towards the child and the woman can raise the child on her own without expecting any cash or money. That is the only solution that equally and fairly represents both people as having both played a part in the conception of the child. If the woman really thinks she can raise the child on her own and refuses the abortion, then it is her choice as a responsible adult, and she should be able to take care of it.

By saying the man should just deal with it, you are absolving the woman of any sort of responsibility. Yeah, the guy didnt have to go have sex with the woman, but at the same time, she didnt have to open her legs and let the man ejaculate in her without a condom. If she can unilaterally decide what to do in the situation of a pregnancy, then she should unilaterally deal with the consequences of her decision.

II_Seraphim_II

100% agree with this.

No idea WTF must be going on in your head if you think it's fair for a woman to be the sole decisionmaker while the man also has to share responsability with no say in it.

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]

[QUOTE="GamerForca"] Well, I certainly agree. But that doesn't mean abortion should be banned simply because I think it's irresponsible. It's like others have said... most pro-choice people aren't pro-abortion, we just don't believe we should be able to tell people what to do with their bodies.II_Seraphim_II

The greatest hypocrisy in my mind is to be "pro-life" but to support capital punishment. Many people would argue to the ends of the world that the life of a fetus is far more important than a convicted criminal, but I don't completely agree. A fetus could turn out to be a criminal in the future, and a criminal can possibly be rehabilitated.jimkabrhel

lol

[QUOTE="II_Seraphim_II"][QUOTE="BranKetra"] Are you including a fetus as part of a woman's body?

BranKetra

technically correct, the best kind of correct

 I wonder if all these women-loving, feminist pro-choicers would be cool with late term abortions (not just for health reasons only). After all, it's the women's body, and the big bad government should not be interfering with it. 

 I wonder if all these women-loving, feminist pro-choicers would be cool with late term abortions (not just for health reasons only). After all, it's the women's body, and the big bad government should not be interfering with it. 

nomsayin

what is considered a late term abortion?

[QUOTE="nomsayin"]

 I wonder if all these women-loving, feminist pro-choicers would be cool with late term abortions (not just for health reasons only). After all, it's the women's body, and the big bad government should not be interfering with it. 

lostrib

what is considered a late term abortion?

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="nomsayin"]

 I wonder if all these women-loving, feminist pro-choicers would be cool with late term abortions (not just for health reasons only). After all, it's the women's body, and the big bad government should not be interfering with it. 

nomsayin

what is considered a late term abortion?

Then probably not, there does need to be a limit on when it can occur and why

 I wonder if all these women-loving, feminist pro-choicers would be cool with late term abortions (not just for health reasons only). After all, it's the women's body, and the big bad government should not be interfering with it. 

nomsayin

lol. Have you actually read posts in this thread?

[QUOTE="nomsayin"][QUOTE="lostrib"]

what is considered a late term abortion?

lostrib

Then probably not, there does need to be a limit on when it can occur and why

Stop placing limits on it then, misogynist! The choice is not in your hands, it's in the women's! Stop forcing your moral values on these women! 

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"]Defiantly not. If you can find a way for the embryo to develop and gestate inside a male's body, then go ahead. hiphops_savior

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="nomsayin"] A late-term abortion often refers to an induced abortion procedure that occurs after the 20th week of gestation.nomsayin

Then probably not, there does need to be a limit on when it can occur and why

Stop placing limits on it then, misogynist! The choice is not in your hands, it's in the women's! Stop forcing your moral values on these women! 

Good thing the world isn't so black and white as All abortions, all the time or no abortions at all.

[QUOTE="nomsayin"]

 I wonder if all these women-loving, feminist pro-choicers would be cool with late term abortions (not just for health reasons only). After all, it's the women's body, and the big bad government should not be interfering with it. 

jimkabrhel

lol. Have you actually read posts in this thread?

Why are first trimester abortions okay but not late-term abortions? This is an issue of women's rights after all - the fetus has no say. No restrictions should be placed on late-term abortions, as you're interfering with a women's body and placing your moral values on others.  

 I wonder if all these women-loving, feminist pro-choicers would be cool with late term abortions (not just for health reasons only). After all, it's the women's body, and the big bad government should not be interfering with it. 

nomsayin

[QUOTE="nomsayin"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

Then probably not, there does need to be a limit on when it can occur and why

lostrib

Stop placing limits on it then, misogynist! The choice is not in your hands, it's in the women's! Stop forcing your moral values on these women! 

Good thing the world isn't so black and white as All abortions, all the time or no abortions at all.

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="nomsayin"]

 I wonder if all these women-loving, feminist pro-choicers would be cool with late term abortions (not just for health reasons only). After all, it's the women's body, and the big bad government should not be interfering with it. 

nomsayin

lol. Have you actually read posts in this thread?

Why are first trimester abortions okay but not late-term abortions? This is an issue of women's rights after all - the fetus has no say. No restrictions should be placed on late-term abortions, as you're interfering with a women's body and placing your moral values on others.  

Because there's a difference

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="nomsayin"]

Stop placing limits on it then, misogynist! The choice is not in your hands, it's in the women's! Stop forcing your moral values on these women! 

nomsayin

Good thing the world isn't so black and white as All abortions, all the time or no abortions at all.

what is the average pro choicers position?

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="nomsayin"]

 I wonder if all these women-loving, feminist pro-choicers would be cool with late term abortions (not just for health reasons only). After all, it's the women's body, and the big bad government should not be interfering with it. 

nomsayin

lol. Have you actually read posts in this thread?

Why are first trimester abortions okay but not late-term abortions? This is an issue of women's rights after all - the fetus has no say. No restrictions should be placed on late-term abortions, as you're interfering with a women's body and placing your moral values on others.  

You're really bad at sarcasm and/or critical satire. You should give it up.

Because there's a differencelostrib

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="nomsayin"]

Stop placing limits on it then, misogynist! The choice is not in your hands, it's in the women's! Stop forcing your moral values on these women! 

nomsayin

Good thing the world isn't so black and white as All abortions, all the time or no abortions at all.

[QUOTE="nomsayin"]

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

lol. Have you actually read posts in this thread?

jimkabrhel

Why are first trimester abortions okay but not late-term abortions? This is an issue of women's rights after all - the fetus has no say. No restrictions should be placed on late-term abortions, as you're interfering with a women's body and placing your moral values on others.  

You're really bad at sarcasm and/or critical satire. You should give it up.

[QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

[QUOTE="nomsayin"]

Why are first trimester abortions okay but not late-term abortions? This is an issue of women's rights after all - the fetus has no say. No restrictions should be placed on late-term abortions, as you're interfering with a women's body and placing your moral values on others.  

nomsayin

You're really bad at sarcasm and/or critical satire. You should give it up.

Um, actually, my position is quite consistent, if you actually read it. Just because it doesn't fall on the black or white end of this discussion, doesn't mean it's inconsistent. When you have experience in the matter, it forces you to have a different perspective.

[QUOTE="nomsayin"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

Good thing the world isn't so black and white as All abortions, all the time or no abortions at all.

HoolaHoopMan

[QUOTE="lostrib"]Because there's a differencenomsayin

Perhaps bring a serious point, rather than just yell sarcastic platitudes/slogans

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"][QUOTE="nomsayin"] Then the average pro-choicer's position seems to be quite inconsistent in nature.

nomsayin

what does that matter to the pro-lifers who think life starts at conception, and thus an abortion would be murder

[QUOTE="nomsayin"][QUOTE="lostrib"]Because there's a differencelostrib

Perhaps bring a serious point, rather than just yell sarcastic platitudes/slogans

[QUOTE="BranKetra"][QUOTE="II_Seraphim_II"] No, the woman's body is her own body. The woman makes changes to her own body, which cause the removal of the fetus from her body. Unfortunately the fetus dies because it is unable to live without a host, but still, the changes are to the woman's body.lostrib

technically correct, the best kind of correct

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"][QUOTE="nomsayin"] Then the average pro-choicer's position seems to be quite inconsistent in nature.nomsayin

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="nomsayin"] That's not for you to decide. It's the women's choice. Whether you think there's a difference or not does not matter. You should not be forcing your moral beliefs on others, misogynist! nomsayin

Perhaps bring a serious point, rather than just yell sarcastic platitudes/slogans

It's not a serious point, you're just being sarcastic and hyperbolic in an attempt to make some ridiculous all or nothing argument

Other tri-mesters? You're an idiot murderer, who cannot take responsibility for your actions.

Clearly I'm pro life.

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="BranKetra"] That seems like a technicality.BranKetra

technically correct, the best kind of correct

all operations have side effects and risks

[QUOTE="HoolaHoopMan"][QUOTE="nomsayin"] Then the average pro-choicer's position seems to be quite inconsistent in nature.nomsayin

Other tri-mesters? You're an idiot murderer, who cannot take responsibility for your actions.

Clearly I'm pro life.

lowkey254

what about the first trimester?

[QUOTE="nomsayin"][QUOTE="lostrib"]

Perhaps bring a serious point, rather than just yell sarcastic platitudes/slogans

lostrib

It's not a serious point, you're just being sarcastic and hyperbolic in an attempt to make some ridiculous all or nothing argument

[QUOTE="lowkey254"]

Other tri-mesters? You're an idiot murderer, who cannot take responsibility for your actions.

Clearly I'm pro life.

what about the first trimester?

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="nomsayin"] It is a serious point, dumb***. The point I'm trying to make is not difficult to grasp. nomsayin

It's not a serious point, you're just being sarcastic and hyperbolic in an attempt to make some ridiculous all or nothing argument

Except I never argued that.  We don't live in a all or nothing/black and white world, there are/should be restrictions placed on things

The whole pro-choice argument boils down to "it's a woman's choice, not yours." All I'm simply asking is why does this not extend to include late-term abortions? 

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="lowkey254"]

Other tri-mesters? You're an idiot murderer, who cannot take responsibility for your actions.

Clearly I'm pro life.

lowkey254

what about the first trimester?

what about plan B? 

The whole pro-choice argument boils down to "it's a woman's choice, not yours." All I'm simply asking is why does this not extend to include late-term abortions? 

nomsayin

perhaps when/if the child is able to survive outside the mother?

[QUOTE="lowkey254"][QUOTE="lostrib"]

what about the first trimester?

what about plan B? 

[QUOTE="BranKetra"][QUOTE="lostrib"]

technically correct, the best kind of correct

lostrib

all operations have side effects and risks