I am definitively repulsed by the concept of genocide. Murder millions of adults and it's considered genocide. Murder millions of children and it's considered pro-choice. I see no difference.mindstormBiologically, a child is a human between the stages of birth and puberty. So no, you're wrong.
Abortion: what do u think?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Abortion is morally and intellectually untenable unless it's to save the life of the mother. That said, there needs to be more compassion for people facing that decision and help for them with whatever choice they make.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I am definitively repulsed by the concept of genocide. Murder millions of adults and it's considered genocide. Murder millions of children and it's considered pro-choice. I see no difference.deelimanBiologically, a child is a human between the stages of birth and puberty. So no, you're wrong. Should I therefore say unborn children? Your rebuttal is against its semantics and you have not denied the moral atrocity that this "silent genocide" truly is.
[QUOTE="deeliman"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]I am definitively repulsed by the concept of genocide. Murder millions of adults and it's considered genocide. Murder millions of children and it's considered pro-choice. I see no difference.mindstormBiologically, a child is a human between the stages of birth and puberty. So no, you're wrong. Should I therefore say unborn children? Your rebuttal is against its semantics and you have not denied the moral atrocity that this "silent genocide" truly is.There's more than just a semantic difference between a fetus that is less than a few months old, and a sentient, living child.
[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="mindstorm"] Should I therefore say unborn children? Your rebuttal is against its semantics and you have not denied the moral atrocity that this "silent genocide" truly is.mindstormThere's more than just a semantic difference between a fetus that is less than a few months old, and a sentient, living child. My nephew was born 3.5 months premature. Was it his birth that decided that he was a child? If a woman has a stillborn does that mean she should not mourn because it wasn't truly a living child to begin with? It's her choice wether she mourns or not. At what point is a human simply tissue and at what point is this truly a person? To answer this question, we must first ask, what determons if something is alive or not? Life is a characteristic that distinguishes objects that have signaling and self-sustaining processes from those that do not. A fetus can't sustain itself and is dependant on her mother's body to survive, and cannot survive outside of it. So the answer is, when it is able to survive outside of the mother's body. Is it that one moment this unborn child is a legal choice to be killed and not an hour later an illegal murder? Who is to decide when the unborn is to be protected? All should have a right to life, young or old.
I am definitively repulsed by the concept of genocide. Murder millions of adults and it's considered genocide. Murder millions of children and it's considered pro-choice. I see no difference.mindstorm
It might be because you don't understand the meaning of genocide
[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]There's more than just a semantic difference between a fetus that is less than a few months old, and a sentient, living child.Engrish_MajorMy nephew was born 3.5 months premature. Was it his birth that decided that he was a child? If a woman has a stillborn does that mean she should not mourn because it wasn't truly a living child to begin with? At what point is a human simply tissue and at what point is this truly a person? Is it that one moment this unborn child is a legal choice to be killed and not an hour later an illegal murder? Who is to decide when the unborn is to be protected? All should have a right to life, young or old.3.5 months premature is still after the vast majority of abortions are done. And, yes, if a line has to be drawn, so do it. Just like speed limits or the amount of liquid you can bring on a plane. Legally, a line has to be drawn at some point. I thought this was an issue of women's rights. How dare you limit a women's right to abort, misogynist!
[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I am definitively repulsed by the concept of genocide. Murder millions of adults and it's considered genocide. Murder millions of children and it's considered pro-choice. I see no difference.lostrib
It might be because you don't understand the meaning of genocide
I may a tendency of using mildly loose definitions for my terminology for the sake of making controversial points.[QUOTE="lostrib"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]I am definitively repulsed by the concept of genocide. Murder millions of adults and it's considered genocide. Murder millions of children and it's considered pro-choice. I see no difference.mindstorm
It might be because you don't understand the meaning of genocide
I may a tendency of using mildly loose definitions for my terminology for the sake of making controversial points. So, in other words, you're a drama queen.[QUOTE="lostrib"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]I am definitively repulsed by the concept of genocide. Murder millions of adults and it's considered genocide. Murder millions of children and it's considered pro-choice. I see no difference.mindstorm
It might be because you don't understand the meaning of genocide
I may a tendency of using mildly loose definitions for my terminology for the sake of making controversial points.Translation: you purposely use words incorrectly in order to start shit.
[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="lostrib"]I may a tendency of using mildly loose definitions for my terminology for the sake of making controversial points. So, in other words, you're a drama queen. I blame the internet and am denying personal responsibility. :PIt might be because you don't understand the meaning of genocide
deeliman
I may a tendency of using mildly loose definitions for my terminology for the sake of making controversial points.[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="lostrib"]
It might be because you don't understand the meaning of genocide
lostrib
Translation: you purposely use words incorrectly in order to start shit.
Mindstorm doesn't seem like a user that likes to "start shit". You, on the other hand, do.[QUOTE="lostrib"][QUOTE="mindstorm"] I may a tendency of using mildly loose definitions for my terminology for the sake of making controversial points. nomsayin
Translation: you purposely use words incorrectly in order to start shit.
Mindstorm doesn't seem like a user that likes to "start shit". You, on the other hand, do.I get bored a lot
I may a tendency of using mildly loose definitions for my terminology for the sake of making controversial points.[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="lostrib"]
It might be because you don't understand the meaning of genocide
lostrib
Translation: you purposely use words incorrectly in order to start shit.
I prefer to refer to it as propagating conversation and thought. :P[QUOTE="lostrib"][QUOTE="mindstorm"] I may a tendency of using mildly loose definitions for my terminology for the sake of making controversial points. mindstorm
Translation: you purposely use words incorrectly in order to start shit.
I prefer to refer to it as propagating conversation and thought. :Puh huh...:roll:
[QUOTE="lostrib"][QUOTE="mindstorm"]I am definitively repulsed by the concept of genocide. Murder millions of adults and it's considered genocide. Murder millions of children and it's considered pro-choice. I see no difference.mindstorm
It might be because you don't understand the meaning of genocide
I may a tendency of using mildly loose definitions for my terminology for the sake of making controversial points. No offense mindstorm, but you won't end up accomplishing much beyond riling one side against another by playing on emotions with hyperbole. I honestly think both sides would accomplish more by supporting logical/rational actions that would actively reduce the need for abortions in the first place. Amending the constitution is nearly impossible, if you want to reduce abortion with any sort of measurable results perhaps you should try to get funds for an adoption program. Perhaps you should push to make adoption a cheaper option for those looking to adopt. I all, but guarantee that would accomplish more than making references to genocide.
Numbers 5: 11-22: Then the LORD said to Moses, Speak to the Israelites and say to them: If a man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband (here the priest is to put the woman under this curse), may the LORD cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries. Then the woman is to say, Amen. So be it.
Â
Doctor orders an abortion: evil and wrong. God orders an abortion: A-okay!
Not all pro-lifers are Christians.Numbers 5: 11-22: Then the LORD said to Moses, Speak to the Israelites and say to them: If a man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband (here the priest is to put the woman under this curse), may the LORD cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries. Then the woman is to say, Amen. So be it.
Â
Doctor orders an abortion: evil and wrong. God orders an abortion: A-okay!
Makhaidos
[QUOTE="Makhaidos"]Not all pro-lifers are Christians. Most are.Numbers 5: 11-22: Then the LORD said to Moses, Speak to the Israelites and say to them: If a man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband (here the priest is to put the woman under this curse), may the LORD cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries. Then the woman is to say, Amen. So be it.
Â
Doctor orders an abortion: evil and wrong. God orders an abortion: A-okay!
nomsayin
[QUOTE="Makhaidos"]Not all pro-lifers are Christians. Most are, and even some of the ones who aren't have some sort of spiritual bullshit argument that traces back to the Bible anyway.Numbers 5: 11-22: Then the LORD said to Moses, Speak to the Israelites and say to them: If a man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband (here the priest is to put the woman under this curse), may the LORD cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries. Then the woman is to say, Amen. So be it.
Â
Doctor orders an abortion: evil and wrong. God orders an abortion: A-okay!
nomsayin
[QUOTE="nomsayin"][QUOTE="Makhaidos"]Not all pro-lifers are Christians. Most are.Numbers 5: 11-22: Then the LORD said to Moses, Speak to the Israelites and say to them: If a man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband (here the priest is to put the woman under this curse), may the LORD cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries. Then the woman is to say, Amen. So be it.
Â
Doctor orders an abortion: evil and wrong. God orders an abortion: A-okay!
deeliman
as if it matters, they just pick and choose what they like from the bible
[QUOTE="nomsayin"][QUOTE="Makhaidos"]Not all pro-lifers are Christians. Most are.Numbers 5: 11-22: Then the LORD said to Moses, Speak to the Israelites and say to them: If a man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing. The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband (here the priest is to put the woman under this curse), may the LORD cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries. Then the woman is to say, Amen. So be it.
Â
Doctor orders an abortion: evil and wrong. God orders an abortion: A-okay!
deeliman
Nah, not really. There's literally billions of people of other religious faiths that would like a word or two with you.Â
Most are.[QUOTE="deeliman"][QUOTE="nomsayin"] Not all pro-lifers are Christians. lostrib
as if it matters, they just pick and choose what they like from the bible
I'm pretty sure most Christians don't even follow the rules of the bible, and who could blame them. Technically, they're not even allowed to take a dump in the bathroom.Most are.[QUOTE="deeliman"][QUOTE="nomsayin"] Not all pro-lifers are Christians. nomsayin
Nah, not really. There's literally billions of people of other religious faiths that would like a word or two with you.Â
Most other religious faiths are cool about abortion, or at least don't wave their religious texts around as if they mention it. The only time the Bible mentions abortion is in a circumstance where God demands it in the event a husband gets mad at his wife, yet pro-lifer Christians point at the Bible as if it says abortion is wrong at least twice in all 66 books.Most other religious faiths are cool about abortion, or at least don't wave their religious texts around as if they mention it. The only time the Bible mentions abortion is in a circumstance where God demands it in the event a husband gets mad at his wife.Makhaidos
Yeah, let's all pretend that the millions of Muslims and Hindus that are against abortion don't exist.Â
[QUOTE="Makhaidos"]Most other religious faiths are cool about abortion, or at least don't wave their religious texts around as if they mention it. The only time the Bible mentions abortion is in a circumstance where God demands it in the event a husband gets mad at his wife.nomsayin
Yeah, let's all pretend that the millions of Muslims and Hindus that are against abortion don't exist.Â
In Islam, abortion is acceptable up to 120 days if the mother's life is in danger or if the child is diagnosed with an untreatable disease; the Koran makes no mention of abortion whatsoever.The Hindu stance on abortion is to take the route that involves the least amount of harm to all involved. If abortion is safer than the pregnancy, no Hindu will take issue with it. Again, no Hindu text mentions abortion.
The crazy Christian Right, however, will not permit abortion at all, ever, in any circumstance, at any point. Catholics won't permit the morning-after pill because, to them, it's abortion. This is despite the fact that the only time abortion is mentioned in the Bible is when it is not only accepted, but demanded by God in a circumstance modern society considers deplorable.
[QUOTE="nomsayin"][QUOTE="Makhaidos"]Most other religious faiths are cool about abortion, or at least don't wave their religious texts around as if they mention it. The only time the Bible mentions abortion is in a circumstance where God demands it in the event a husband gets mad at his wife.Makhaidos
Yeah, let's all pretend that the millions of Muslims and Hindus that are against abortion don't exist.Â
In Islam, abortion is acceptable up to 120 days if the mother's life is in danger or if the child is diagnosed with an untreatable disease; the Koran makes no mention of abortion whatsoever. The Hindu stance on abortion is to take the route that involves the least amount of harm to all involved. If abortion is safer than the pregnancy, no Hindu will take issue with it. Again, no Hindu text mentions abortion.It doesn't matter what the religious texts say, and even then, those texts can be interpreted in several different ways by different scholars. So while the Islamic religion may be possibly be pro-abortion with regards to its texts, it's quite clear that many Muslims seem to be against it.Â
Hinduism:Â
Unless a mother's health is at risk, traditional Hindu teachings and texts condemn abortion because it is thought to violate the religion's teachings of non-violence. The Vedic texts compare abortion to the killing of one's own parents.[1]Â The general value system of Hinduism teaches that the correct course of action in any given situation is the one that causes the least harm to those involved. Thus in the case where the mother's life is at risk, abortion is considered acceptable.[1]
According to the Hinduism Today website, "Several Hindu institutions have shared their positions on abortion recently. The Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University does not take a formal unchanging political or religious stance on the issue of abortion. They advise that each case requires unique consideration... The Brahma Kumaris view the body as a physical vehicle for the immortal soul, and therefore the issue is not "pro-life" or "anti-life" but a choice between the amount of suffering caused to the souls of the parents and child in either course, abortion or motherhood" and later states that "ISKCONÂ calls the 1.3 million abortions done in America last year "a kind of doublethink," whereby people deny the status of humanity to the fetus...According to Vedic literature an eternal individual soul inhabits the body of every living creature...The soul enters the womb at the time of conception, and this makes the fetus a living, individual person."[5]
Not to mention that many atheists are also pro-life.Â
In Islam, abortion is acceptable up to 120 days if the mother's life is in danger or if the child is diagnosed with an untreatable disease; the Koran makes no mention of abortion whatsoever. The Hindu stance on abortion is to take the route that involves the least amount of harm to all involved. If abortion is safer than the pregnancy, no Hindu will take issue with it. Again, no Hindu text mentions abortion.[QUOTE="Makhaidos"][QUOTE="nomsayin"]
Yeah, let's all pretend that the millions of Muslims and Hindus that are against abortion don't exist.Â
nomsayin
It doesn't matter what the religious texts say, and even then, those texts can be interpreted in several different ways by different scholars. So while the Koran may be possibly be pro-abortion with regards to its texts, it's quite clear that many Muslims seem to be against it.Â
Hinduism:Â
Unless a mother's health is at risk, traditional Hindu teachings and texts condemn abortion because it is thought to violate the religion's teachings of non-violence. The Vedic texts compare abortion to the killing of one's own parents.[1]Â The general value system of Hinduism teaches that the correct course of action in any given situation is the one that causes the least harm to those involved. Thus in the case where the mother's life is at risk, abortion is considered acceptable.[1]
According to the Hinduism Today website, "Several Hindu institutions have shared their positions on abortion recently. The Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University does not take a formal unchanging political or religious stance on the issue of abortion. They advise that each case requires unique consideration... The Brahma Kumaris view the body as a physical vehicle for the immortal soul, and therefore the issue is not "pro-life" or "anti-life" but a choice between the amount of suffering caused to the souls of the parents and child in either course, abortion or motherhood" and later states that "ISKCONÂ calls the 1.3 million abortions done in America last year "a kind of doublethink," whereby people deny the status of humanity to the fetus...According to Vedic literature an eternal individual soul inhabits the body of every living creature...The soul enters the womb at the time of conception, and this makes the fetus a living, individual person."[5]
Not to mention that many atheists are also pro-life.Â
I don't think I ever denied that they exist; in American culture, however, the vast majority of pro-lifers are products of the Christian Right. And atheist pro-lifers are sad little idiots. At least the religious pro-lifers have an excuse.I don't think I ever denied that they exist; in American culture, however, the vast majority of pro-lifers are products of the Christian Right. And atheist pro-lifers are sad little idiots. At least the religious pro-lifers have an excuse.
Makhaidos
You said most pro-lifers are Christians. You need to go and back that up. And not everyone that disagrees with your position is a "sad little idiot".Â
[QUOTE="Makhaidos"]
I don't think I ever denied that they exist; in American culture, however, the vast majority of pro-lifers are products of the Christian Right. And atheist pro-lifers are sad little idiots. At least the religious pro-lifers have an excuse.
nomsayin
You said most pro-lifers are Christians. You need to go and back that up. And not everyone that disagrees with your position is a "sad little idiot".Â
Allow me to reiterate, then: most pro-lifers in Western culture are Christians. And pro-lifers are sad little idiots, not because they disagree with me, but because they believe they have the right to control women's bodies with absolutely no logic to back them up, whether they hide behind religious excuses or some "natural dominance of the man" argument that makes no sense. The especially stupid ones are the ones who think teens should be forced to have kids but then rally against social welfare programs for young/poor/broken families. At that point, it isn't even "pro-life;" it's pro-fetus.[QUOTE="nomsayin"][QUOTE="Makhaidos"]
I don't think I ever denied that they exist; in American culture, however, the vast majority of pro-lifers are products of the Christian Right. And atheist pro-lifers are sad little idiots. At least the religious pro-lifers have an excuse.
Makhaidos
You said most pro-lifers are Christians. You need to go and back that up. And not everyone that disagrees with your position is a "sad little idiot".Â
Allow me to reiterate, then: most pro-lifers in Western culture are Christians. And pro-lifers are sad little idiots, not because they disagree with me, but because they believe they have the right to control women's bodies with absolutely no logic to back them up, whether they hide behind religious excuses or some "natural dominance of the man" argument that makes no sense. The especially stupid ones are the ones who think teens should be forced to have kids but then rally against social welfare programs for young/poor/broken families. At that point, it isn't even "pro-life;" it's pro-fetus.Most pro-lifers don't even use "natural dominance of the man" arguments, have no fvcking idea where you got this from. While some may be religion text-thumpers, I've noticed most seem to use other ways more frequently (i.e. graphic images) to help prove their point.Â
Also, most pro-lifers don't see it as an issue of "controlling women's bodies". Since you seem to think it's about evil theocratic governments interfering with a woman's health decisions, I'm assuming you're also going to be fine with late-term abortions, correct?Â
I definitely agree with your last point, but you have to remember not all pro-lifers are against welfare.
Allow me to reiterate, then: most pro-lifers in Western culture are Christians. And pro-lifers are sad little idiots, not because they disagree with me, but because they believe they have the right to control women's bodies with absolutely no logic to back them up, whether they hide behind religious excuses or some "natural dominance of the man" argument that makes no sense. The especially stupid ones are the ones who think teens should be forced to have kids but then rally against social welfare programs for young/poor/broken families. At that point, it isn't even "pro-life;" it's pro-fetus.[QUOTE="Makhaidos"][QUOTE="nomsayin"]
You said most pro-lifers are Christians. You need to go and back that up. And not everyone that disagrees with your position is a "sad little idiot".Â
nomsayin
Most pro-lifers don't even use "natural dominance of the man" arguments, have no fvcking idea where you got this from. While some may be religion text-thumpers, I've noticed most seem to use other ways more frequently (i.e. graphic images) to help prove their point.Â
Also, most pro-lifers don't see it as an issue of "controlling women's bodies". Since you seem to think it's about evil theocratic governments interfering with a woman's health decisions, I'm assuming you're also going to be fine with late-term abortions, correct?Â
I definitely agree with your last point, but you have to remember not all pro-lifers are against welfare.
Obviously we've met different pro-lifers. All atheist pro-lifers I've ever met appealed to "natural" gender roles to support their idiocy. How pro-lifers see it is irrelevant. Misogynists will always deny being misogynists; "It's not an issue of restricting women's rights to vote, it's an issue of intelligent policy-making." It is a woman's body; any arguments that it isn't about who may make decisions about their body is either intentionally misleading or horribly delusional.
I am definitively repulsed by the concept of genocide. Murder millions of adults and it's considered genocide. Murder millions of children and it's considered pro-choice. I see no difference.mindstormYou see no difference because you're wrong in viewing a barely multi cellular lump as a child. If that's the case we better start inspecting every maxi pad that's thrown out since a large portion of fertilized eggs fail to adhere to the uterine lining. That would make every garbage dump in the US a potential grave yard if we're following your line of thought. Better yet, we should probably start prosecuting and investigating every single miscarriage. It only makes sense since its a child at fertilization. Would you like to run those logistics by us?
I don't like the idea of abortion, as far as I'm concerned it's not just a bundle of cells, that developing fetus is on its way to becoming a sentient human being and I certainly don't like the idea of just discarding it. So in that regard I tend to sympathise with the pro-life side. However, I'm against making it illegal or placing hefty restrictions on abortion because, pragmatically, I think providing safe and legal access to abortion is the right thing to do. Without it people turn to extreme lengths out of desperation that could seriously harm themselves. There is also the risk of the abortion being unsuccessful and the fetus continuing to develop, albeit severely damaged by the failed attempts. I would much rather see those trying to fight abortion divert their efforts into reducing the need for it. Better sex education, access to contraceptives and services to support children where the parents cannot, these things would all go a long way in preventing unwanted pregnancy or at least providing alternative options to abortion.EJ902
This. Unfortunately, many of the pro-life folks don't give a hoot about the kids once they're born.
I don't like the idea of abortion, as far as I'm concerned it's not just a bundle of cells, that developing fetus is on its way to becoming a sentient human being and I certainly don't like the idea of just discarding it. So in that regard I tend to sympathise with the pro-life side. However, I'm against making it illegal or placing hefty restrictions on abortion because, pragmatically, I think providing safe and legal access to abortion is the right thing to do. Without it people turn to extreme lengths out of desperation that could seriously harm themselves. There is also the risk of the abortion being unsuccessful and the fetus continuing to develop, albeit severely damaged by the failed attempts. I would much rather see those trying to fight abortion divert their efforts into reducing the need for it. Better sex education, access to contraceptives and services to support children where the parents cannot, these things would all go a long way in preventing unwanted pregnancy or at least providing alternative options toabortion.EJ902
The world would be a much better place if more focus was put on education, rather than scare tactics.
Anti unless it threatens the mothers life or the person was raped. Other than that, I don't like it, especially with certain other reasons. Even with protection, there's still a possibility of having a child but it's better than using none. Best bet is to not engage in sexual intercourse. Either do those options (first one is the best option) or deal with having one. It's not fair to take a baby's life because you didn't want one in the first place.coolkid93
what if it's not a baby yet?
[QUOTE="coolkid93"]Anti unless it threatens the mothers life or the person was raped. Other than that, I don't like it, especially with certain other reasons. Even with protection, there's still a possibility of having a child but it's better than using none. Best bet is to not engage in sexual intercourse. Either do those options (first one is the best option) or deal with having one. It's not fair to take a baby's life because you didn't want one in the first place.lostrib
what if it's not a baby yet?
It's not fair to take a babies life. Â It's also not fair to bring a baby into this world in it's state! Â How ya like them apples?
[QUOTE="lostrib"]
[QUOTE="coolkid93"]Anti unless it threatens the mothers life or the person was raped. Other than that, I don't like it, especially with certain other reasons. Even with protection, there's still a possibility of having a child but it's better than using none. Best bet is to not engage in sexual intercourse. Either do those options (first one is the best option) or deal with having one. It's not fair to take a baby's life because you didn't want one in the first place.Mikey132
what if it's not a baby yet?
It's not fair to take a babies life. Â It's also not fair to bring a baby into this world in it's state! Â How ya like them apples?
In which state is it okay to bring a baby into the world? Also, what if it's not a baby yet?
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