Any questions on Islam?

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

Haha, this made me laugh. Do you really have to look that far back in history to come up with examples?

We can all do the same. Here's one, the Arab take over of north africa, followed by spain.

How about something more recent: nigeria, sudan, indonesia, etc.

Admit it, if the best you can do is come up with some 500 year old example of injustice and religious bigotry on the part of overzealous christians, then please let the issue rest. But if you want to have a real discussion then you'll realize that not just have muslims committed numerous atrocities against the unbelievers throughout the years, they CONTINUE to commit such acts to this very day, things much worse than the inquisition (which mind you is exaggerated, barely anyone was actually killed).

If one were to tally up the numbers, i think that you guys would win in that department.

spierdalaj666

wow, what have you been smoking. How have muslims not colonized a single country? How about india, spain, greece and the balkans?

Does your second statement refer to the ottoman invasions of europe? Otherwise i'm baffled.

This made me laugh what a typical muslim thing to do hahahahahahaha.

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

wow your ignorence blinds you. Muhammad went around slaughtering Jews because they wouldnt follow him. They choose to beleive their words from god.

123625

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

wow your ignorence blinds you. Muhammad went around slaughtering Jews because they wouldnt follow him. They choose to beleive their words from god.

hagiiiiiiiiii

Why are you changing the username quote things? i mean its common deception nothing more.

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

It depends on the society you are discussing. I'm saying laws should be changed to reflect society for the better or worse. Actual murder rates are on the decline in the UK. The fear of crime is enhanced in the minds of the UK public by somewhat obsessive coverage of it on TV. Sentencing for murderers has changed little in the recent past. However, the death sentance denies the possibility of mistakes, so personally I would stick with UK law, with a "life" sentance for murder.

Surely the way to go about reducing murders is to understand why it is committed and reduce the potential for it to happen. Reasons may change as society evolves. In the UK in the last 50 years, we have had to adapt to new ways of working, travelling, eating and living. Our very social nature has changed. There is less murder now, per capita, despite the size of society increasing dramatically in that time. For this, you will gather that law making should be an iterative and evolutionary process without fixed doctrines that have proven through millenia not to work to the benefit of society.

RationalAtheist

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="123625"]

Heres another question. If the husband is about to kill the wife for whatever reason.( just as an example) What shouldthe women do, according to islamic tradition.

123625

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

Why are you changing the username quote things? i mean its common deception nothing more.

123625

Pig meat has the growing hormone which causes cancer.Trichinella spiralis which is caused by the pig is still not curable even to today's date. Algebra was not Greek, fact. Please even my greek teacher knows that Algebra comes from Arabs, running water was occurent in the Roman era, however they did not take showers on running water. It was the Muslims who started bringing the running water to Europe. I'm pretty sure you are well aware of the colonazation of the world that your country did. Islamic empire is not to bring war to other nations but to protect Islam and muslims, look at the muslim countries that are being attacked.hagiiiiiiiiii

How about all these other animal diseases and their repercussions on humans? Its a link from the DEFRA web site - the department of food and rural affairs.

Algebra was a baylonian invention and used by Greeks and Egyptians.

Britain was invaded by Romans, who bought flowing water with them.

You spoke of "Islamic empire building" originally. Empire building implied exanding your borders...

What muslim countries are being attacked?

Look at the recent murder of Benazir Bhutto in Pakistan - is this the protection of Muslims and Islam you speak of?

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

Why are you changing the username quote things? i mean its common deception nothing more.

hagiiiiiiiiii

Oh ok sorry.

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"]Pig meat has the growing hormone which causes cancer.Trichinella spiralis which is caused by the pig is still not curable even to today's date. Algebra was not Greek, fact. Please even my greek teacher knows that Algebra comes from Arabs, running water was occurent in the Roman era, however they did not take showers on running water. It was the Muslims who started bringing the running water to Europe. I'm pretty sure you are well aware of the colonazation of the world that your country did. Islamic empire is not to bring war to other nations but to protect Islam and muslims, look at the muslim countries that are being attacked.RationalAtheist

How about all these other animal diseases and their repercussions on humans? Its a link from the DEFRA web site - the department of food and rural affairs.

Algebra was a baylonian invention and used by Greeks and Egyptians.

Britain was invaded by Romans, who bought flowing water with them.

You spoke of "Islamic empire building" originally. Empire building implied exanding your borders...

What muslim countries are being attacked?

Look at the recent murder of Benazir Bhutto in Pakistan - is this the protection of Muslims and Islam you speak of?

Excuse me for getting out of topic and going into politics, however, it is necessary.
There is less murder now, per capita, despite the size of society increasing dramatically in that time. For this, you will gather that law making should be an iterative and evolutionary process without fixed doctrines that have proven through millenia not to work to the benefit of society.

Proven through millenia not to work to the benefit of society. If it wasn't benefitial, Muslims could not have built the most magnificent empires in such a short period of time. Stop underminining these facts.hagiiiiiiiiii

I think equally magnificant empires have been built in the names of other faiths, and none:

Egyptians, Mayans, Greeks, Incas, Aztecs, British, Chinese and the French have all built magnificent empires.

The problem with empire building today is that the world has changed and has more people than ever now. Empire building always costs millions of lives. Borders need to stay fixed, else you are asking for a massive human cost - is this jihad?

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"] Excuse me for getting out of topic and going into politics, however, it is necessary.
There is less murder now, per capita, despite the size of society increasing dramatically in that time. For this, you will gather that law making should be an iterative and evolutionary process without fixed doctrines that have proven through millenia not to work to the benefit of society.

Proven through millenia not to work to the benefit of society. If it wasn't benefitial, Muslims could not have built the most magnificent empires in such a short period of time. Stop underminining these facts.RationalAtheist

I think equally magnificant empires have been built in the names of other faiths, and none:

Egyptians, Mayans, Greeks, Incas, Aztecs, British, Chinese and the French have all built magnificent empires.

The problem with empire building today is that the world has changed and has more people than ever now. Empire building always costs millions of lives. Borders need to stay fixed, else you are asking for a massive human cost - is this jihad?

[QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

Haha, this made me laugh. Do you really have to look that far back in history to come up with examples?

We can all do the same. Here's one, the Arab take over of north africa, followed by spain.

How about something more recent: nigeria, sudan, indonesia, etc.

Admit it, if the best you can do is come up with some 500 year old example of injustice and religious bigotry on the part of overzealous christians, then please let the issue rest. But if you want to have a real discussion then you'll realize that not just have muslims committed numerous atrocities against the unbelievers throughout the years, they CONTINUE to commit such acts to this very day, things much worse than the inquisition (which mind you is exaggerated, barely anyone was actually killed).

If one were to tally up the numbers, i think that you guys would win in that department.

hagiiiiiiiiii

Ok Islamic Empires have tried to Conquer Europe before, Through Spain, thank god for the french at the battle of Tours, and then through the Balkans, they were stopped each time.

Flowing water and taking shower in the flowing water are related but different. I've never said that Pakistan was an empire, and I have mentioned in the beginning of this topic that today's muslims are ignorant people, that is why I kept repeating myself, do not make preconceptions of Islam judging it by the people of today. For the muslim countries that are being attacked, iraq, palestine, many muslims in France are also being torned away from their rights. And these are not foreigners but French muslims whose rights are constantly being violated.hagiiiiiiiiii

It was you that mentioned showers. Before that it was flowing water. Anyway, it says here that showers were invented in the 4th century BC by the Greeks

Iraq was not an Islamic state when it was attacked. The reason the democratic process is failing there is the militant urge for sharia law, but with huge divisions between the two Islamic factions and no democracy, religious civil war is now at hand.

I accept that tremendous harm has been done in Palestine by the Israelis and am amazed that the view of the western media is largly to sweep Palestine and the atrocities done by the Israelis under the carpet.

As for the French, what rights are you talking about? The right to cover your face while you are working?

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"] Excuse me for getting out of topic and going into politics, however, it is necessary.
There is less murder now, per capita, despite the size of society increasing dramatically in that time. For this, you will gather that law making should be an iterative and evolutionary process without fixed doctrines that have proven through millenia not to work to the benefit of society.

Proven through millenia not to work to the benefit of society. If it wasn't benefitial, Muslims could not have built the most magnificent empires in such a short period of time. Stop underminining these facts.hagiiiiiiiiii

I think equally magnificant empires have been built in the names of other faiths, and none:

Egyptians, Mayans, Greeks, Incas, Aztecs, British, Chinese and the French have all built magnificent empires.

The problem with empire building today is that the world has changed and has more people than ever now. Empire building always costs millions of lives. Borders need to stay fixed, else you are asking for a massive human cost - is this jihad?

So you want to remove the freedom of choice over belief?

What is wrong with being secular? Surely its the least confrontational and most rational postition.

It was you that mentioned showers. Before that it was flowing water. Anyway, it says here that showers were invented in the 4th century BC by the Greeks

Iraq was not an Islamic state when it was attacked. The reason the democratic process is failing there is the militant urge for sharia law, but with huge divisions between the two Islamic factions and no democracy, religious civil war is now at hand.

I accept that tremendous harm has been done in Palestine by the Israelis and am amazed that the view of the western media is largly to sweep Palestine and the atrocities done by the Israelis under the carpet.

As for the French, what rights are you talking about? The right to cover your face while you are working?

RationalAtheist

For a start, I think the OP said "science does not prove everything" - a big difference to your interpretation.

RationalAtheist

Crap, my fault. I apologize.

On the other hand, one can make the same argument that religion proves nothing, so it is a circuitous argument.

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

So you want to remove the freedom of choice over belief?

What is wrong with being secular? Surely its the least confrontational and most rational postition.

RationalAtheist

As for France the banning of hijab in public places is slowly occuring and many french Muslims are losing their jobs.hagiiiiiiiiii

And would my wife be able to work in most middle eastern countries without wearing one? I think not. It's called a dress code, live with it or don't work.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Crap, my fault. I apologize.

On the other hand, one can make the same argument that religion proves nothing, so it is a circuitous argument.

spierdalaj666

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"]

As for France the banning of hijab in public places is slowly occuring and many french Muslims are losing their jobs.spierdalaj666

And would my wife be able to work in most middle eastern countries without wearing one? I think not. It's called a dress code, live with it or don't work.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

So you want to remove the freedom of choice over belief?

What is wrong with being secular? Surely its the least confrontational and most rational postition.

hagiiiiiiiiii

You're telling us that you honestly believe that national laws should be applied differently to people of different religions?

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

You're telling us that you honestly believe that national laws should be applied differently to people of different religions?

spierdalaj666

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

It was you that mentioned showers. Before that it was flowing water. Anyway, it says here that showers were invented in the 4th century BC by the Greeks

Iraq was not an Islamic state when it was attacked. The reason the democratic process is failing there is the militant urge for sharia law, but with huge divisions between the two Islamic factions and no democracy, religious civil war is now at hand.

I accept that tremendous harm has been done in Palestine by the Israelis and am amazed that the view of the western media is largly to sweep Palestine and the atrocities done by the Israelis under the carpet.

As for the French, what rights are you talking about? The right to cover your face while you are working?

hagiiiiiiiiii

Not to the UK, Spain and Germany. Your idea of Muslims showing Europeans how to take showers seems somewhat euphamistic.

French Muslims have a choice not to wear their hijab. It says nowhere in the Koran that women should cover their face. That has been interpreted into the religion.

From a western perspective, it seems unnerving to talk to someone who has their face covered, even despite being accustomed to it. I agree with the French policy. To deny someone of their facial expression is to deny them of their expression. 80% of communication is given non-verbally, so the face veil does totally restrict communication and hinder understanding.

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

It was you that mentioned showers. Before that it was flowing water. Anyway, it says here that showers were invented in the 4th century BC by the Greeks

Iraq was not an Islamic state when it was attacked. The reason the democratic process is failing there is the militant urge for sharia law, but with huge divisions between the two Islamic factions and no democracy, religious civil war is now at hand.

I accept that tremendous harm has been done in Palestine by the Israelis and am amazed that the view of the western media is largly to sweep Palestine and the atrocities done by the Israelis under the carpet.

As for the French, what rights are you talking about? The right to cover your face while you are working?

RationalAtheist

Not to the UK, Spain and Germany. Your idea of Muslims showing Europeans how to take showers seems somewhat euphamistic.

French Muslims have a choice not to wear their hijab. It says nowhere in the Koran that women should cover their face. That has been interpreted into the religion.

From a western perspective, it seems unnerving to talk to someone who has their face covered, even despite being accustomed to it. I agree with the French policy. To deny someone of their facial expression is to deny them of their expression. 80% of communication is given non-verbally, so the face veil does totally restrict communication and hinder understanding.

[QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Crap, my fault. I apologize.

On the other hand, one can make the same argument that religion proves nothing, so it is a circuitous argument.

hagiiiiiiiiii

Well, you are presenting philosophical arguments here. I would beg to differ with you on the subject of "perfection". If the cosmos was perfect, earth would never be in the path of asteroids, which to date have killed >90% of all the species on this planet.

If we are to assume that human beings were also created in god's image, then one would expect that we would also be perfect. Unfortunately, evolution had a different plan in mind, that's why we're the only animals that have back aches. If we were perfect why would children be born with birth defects and diseases from which there is no cure. Surely, a just and perfect god would not create such imperfect and fragile beings in its image.

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Crap, my fault. I apologize.

On the other hand, one can make the same argument that religion proves nothing, so it is a circuitous argument.

spierdalaj666

Well, you are presenting philosophical arguments here. I would beg to differ with you on the subject of "perfection". If the cosmos was perfect, earth would never be in the path of asteroids, which to date have killed >90% of all the species on this planet.

If we are to assume that human beings were also created in god's image, then one would expect that we would also be perfect. Unfortunately, evolution had a different plan in mind, that's why we're the only animals that have back aches. If we were perfect why would children be born with birth defects and diseases from which there is no cure. Surely, a just and perfect god would not create such imperfect and fragile beings in its image.

[QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

You're telling us that you honestly believe that national laws should be applied differently to people of different religions?

hagiiiiiiiiii

Sorry, but by your own logic then, muslims living in france (a christian nation) should not wear the hijab because it is not the custom of the french people to do so, and therefore they have enacted laws forbidding this practice. This is akin to a muslim nation saying that women should cover up.

I really do no understand why you have a problem with this then.

I am a Muslim and I am aware of the crisis that is going around in Muslim nations. Any questions or thoughts on Islam please feel more then free to let me know, even if it's something that you think I'd consider offensive, I'd like your opinion.hagiiiiiiiiii

do you guys know that jesus doesn't liek it wen you guyz blow stuff up?

People are not created in God's image. Children may be born with birth defects due to other reasons that science cannot prove just yet.hagiiiiiiiiii

I don't mean to be adversarial, but yes it can. It's called a mutation. It can occur in the more than 100 or so genes that are now known to be absolutely required for normal development. This is a critical aspect of genetic variation and evolution.

My previous point was simply there to illustrate that human beings are biologically not perfect. I'm not sure if you're trained in science or medicine, but if you are, then you'll know just how imperfect our bodies really are.

[QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Crap, my fault. I apologize.

On the other hand, one can make the same argument that religion proves nothing, so it is a circuitous argument.

hagiiiiiiiiii

Actually, that is not true. Most scientists do not believe in God. Many surveys of science and faith have revealed this fact.

Nature is amoral. Perfection is a subjective human perception.

Scientific theory has explained how this existance could have been created from an explosion.

Rather, while these things remained a mystery, religions used them as idols of worships. Now these phenomena of the tides, the universe and global warming can be understood, people can stop hopelessly worshiping, start understanding and start doing things to actively change and protect the planet.

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

You're telling us that you honestly believe that national laws should be applied differently to people of different religions?

spierdalaj666

Sorry, but by your own logic then, muslims living in france (a christian nation) should not wear the hijab because it is not the custom of the french people to do so, and therefore they have enacted laws forbidding this practice. This is akin to a muslim nation saying that women should cover up.

I really do no understand why you have a problem with this then.

People are not created in God's image. Children may be born with birth defects due to other reasons that science cannot prove just yet.spierdalaj666

I don't mean to be adversarial, but yes it can. It's called a mutation. It can occur in the more than 100 or so genes that are now known to be absolutely required for normal development. This is a critical aspect of genetic variation and evolution.

My previous point was simply there to illustrate that human beings are biologically not perfect. I'm not sure if you're trained in science or medicine, but if you are, then you'll know just how imperfect our bodies really are.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

It was you that mentioned showers. Before that it was flowing water. Anyway, it says here that showers were invented in the 4th century BC by the Greeks

Iraq was not an Islamic state when it was attacked. The reason the democratic process is failing there is the militant urge for sharia law, but with huge divisions between the two Islamic factions and no democracy, religious civil war is now at hand.

I accept that tremendous harm has been done in Palestine by the Israelis and am amazed that the view of the western media is largly to sweep Palestine and the atrocities done by the Israelis under the carpet.

As for the French, what rights are you talking about? The right to cover your face while you are working?

hagiiiiiiiiii

Not to the UK, Spain and Germany. Your idea of Muslims showing Europeans how to take showers seems somewhat euphamistic.

French Muslims have a choice not to wear their hijab. It says nowhere in the Koran that women should cover their face. That has been interpreted into the religion.

From a western perspective, it seems unnerving to talk to someone who has their face covered, even despite being accustomed to it. I agree with the French policy. To deny someone of their facial expression is to deny them of their expression. 80% of communication is given non-verbally, so the face veil does totally restrict communication and hinder understanding.

So what French law upsets you? Do you think French schools should let young girls wear a head scarf as being sexually attactive to men?

Women are allowed to cover their hair at work, depending on the job they do, in France. Appearance has always been connected with work. For example, there are dress restrictions in most companies that mean I ( as a UK man) have to wear a suit and tie, or a uniform. What's wrong with that?

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Actually, that is not true. Most scientists do not believe in God. Many surveys of science and faith have revealed this fact.

RationalAtheist

[QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

You're telling us that you honestly believe that national laws should be applied differently to people of different religions?

hagiiiiiiiiii

Sorry, but by your own logic then, muslims living in france (a christian nation) should not wear the hijab because it is not the custom of the french people to do so, and therefore they have enacted laws forbidding this practice. This is akin to a muslim nation saying that women should cover up.

I really do no understand why you have a problem with this then.

OI! I did not write what you quoted me to write.

Please be more accurate and careful when using quoting

[QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

You're telling us that you honestly believe that national laws should be applied differently to people of different religions?

hagiiiiiiiiii

Sorry, but by your own logic then, muslims living in france (a christian nation) should not wear the hijab because it is not the custom of the french people to do so, and therefore they have enacted laws forbidding this practice. This is akin to a muslim nation saying that women should cover up.

I really do no understand why you have a problem with this then.

Yes, a secular nation. That is why they won't allow any display of religion publicly. Since the hijab is a symbol of religious expression, it is banned. simple as that.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Actually, that is not true. Most scientists do not believe in God. Many surveys of science and faith have revealed this fact.

hagiiiiiiiiii

And then dismiss it...

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

men covering their face, there is no need to hide so much as to it will cover your identity and cause a threat to society.RationalAtheist

So what French law upsets you? Do you think French schools should let young girls wear a head scarf as being sexually attactive to men?

Women are allowed to cover their hair at work, depending on the job they do, in France. Appearance has always been connected with work. For example, there are dress restrictions in most companies that mean I ( as a UK man) have to wear a suit and tie, or a uniform. What's wrong with that?

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts

heh, QFT.

Anyway, it was nice chatting with you all, but i have to go home now and make some babies.

See you all later.

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="spierdalaj666"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Actually, that is not true. Most scientists do not believe in God. Many surveys of science and faith have revealed this fact.

RationalAtheist

And then dismiss it...

Women not being able to go to school and wearing hijab is a law that upsets not just me but any other muslim. However I do not blame France because they are a secular nation, it is their choice to impose the laws which they think is befitted, that is why i said that muslims should have a muslim governing nation to make their lives easier.hagiiiiiiiiii

What about the Muslims that actually want to live in France? Surely, as they live in a secular democracy, they have the same rights to come and go as anyone else, regardless of faith.

What you are saying is that Islam is incompatible with western lifestyles then...

Why should you have to wear a head scarf before you are 16?

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"]

What about the Muslims that actually want to live in France? Surely, as they live in a secular democracy, they have the same rights to come and go as anyone else, regardless of faith.

What you are saying is that Islam is incompatible with western lifestyles then...

Why should you have to wear a head scarf before you are 16?

RationalAtheist

I've got a question for you. How can you justify your "prophet" Mohammad being a pedophile? Here's proof for people who don't know about Islam's so called prophet marrying a 9 year old girl called Aisha, and consummating the marriage at the age of 9. Check this out:Mohammad was a pedophile

I've got a question for you. How can you justify your "prophet" Mohammad being a pedophile? Here's proof for people who don't know about Islam's so called prophet marrying a 9 year old girl called Aisha, and consummating the marriage at the age of 9. Check this out:Mohammad was a pedophile

Gipsyeyes

Aisha had completely gone through her menstrual cycle at the age of 9, ( let me refer to you that in England the average age is 18, in France it's 17, in holland it's 12) so these are just arbitrary numbers thrown around, so her body was not at the age of a 9 year old but rather around 20 year old girl who has fully developed her body. Not just physically but her sharpness at the age of 9 was crystal claer, she was profound of remembering many hadith's and teaching them to the general women in public. Yes prophet married her for the spreading of Islam and also that he loved her, however it is wrong to misconcept the image of a 9 year old girl with a 54 year old man, when in reality the 9 year old girl is someone who is to be considered a woman physically and mentally, it could be said that Aisha's memory and her sharpness has not been found in anywomen who might have stepped on to this earth.

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

What about the Muslims that actually want to live in France? Surely, as they live in a secular democracy, they have the same rights to come and go as anyone else, regardless of faith.

What you are saying is that Islam is incompatible with western lifestyles then...

Why should you have to wear a head scarf before you are 16?

hagiiiiiiiiii

For starters, please learn how to quote properly. Look at the structure of the message you open, and use the preview button to make sure its ok before posting. I'm sorry to whinge on about this, but you are making the thread impossible to follow. Or is this deliberate...

No, the reason for the secular law is so that everyone appears equal - headscarves cause divisions as they seperate muslims from non-muslims. Why would you want to seperate from a society, rather than integrate with it?

The headscarf rule does not come from the Koran. Why follow it? You can wear the headscarf in your own time in France, as you attend one of the many Mosques there or walk unhindered in the many parks.

I've got a question for you. How can you justify your "prophet" Mohammad being a pedophile? Here's proof for people who don't know about Islam's so called prophet marrying a 9 year old girl called Aisha, and consummating the marriage at the age of 9. Check this out:Mohammad was a pedophile

Gipsyeyes

It was the normal in those times to marry young, considering life expectancyin that time period.

With that said. The sources on Wikipedia that claim such a thing happened, is from unsound Hadith and Watt, who uses these Hadith as proof, and is also an Islamophobe. Hence, there is no proof of such a thing to begin with.

[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

What about the Muslims that actually want to live in France? Surely, as they live in a secular democracy, they have the same rights to come and go as anyone else, regardless of faith.

What you are saying is that Islam is incompatible with western lifestyles then...

Why should you have to wear a head scarf before you are 16?

RationalAtheist

For starters, please learn how to quote properly. Look at the structure of the message you open, and use the preview button to make sure its ok before posting. I'm sorry to whinge on about this, but you are making the thread impossible to follow. Or is this deliberate...

No, the reason for the secular law is so that everyone appears equal - headscarves cause divisions as they seperate muslims from non-muslims. Why would you want to seperate from a society, rather than integrate with it?

The headscarf rule does not come from the Koran. Why follow it? You can wear the headscarf in your own time in France, as you attend one of the many Mosques there or walk unhindered in the many parks.

[QUOTE="Gipsyeyes"]

I've got a question for you. How can you justify your "prophet" Mohammad being a pedophile? Here's proof for people who don't know about Islam's so called prophet marrying a 9 year old girl called Aisha, and consummating the marriage at the age of 9. Check this out:Mohammad was a pedophile

hagiiiiiiiiii

Aisha had completely gone through her menstrual cycle at the age of 9, ( let me refer to you that in England the average age is 18, in France it's 17, in holland it's 12) so these are just arbitrary numbers thrown around, so her body was not at the age of a 9 year old but rather around 20 year old girl who has fully developed her body. Not just physically but her sharpness at the age of 9 was crystal claer, she was profound of remembering many hadith's and teaching them to the general women in public.

First of all, that is impossible. She is not an adult in any way possible, so "consumating" with a 9 year old is pedophilia. These numbers are not arbitrary, they are chosen because they are thought to determine a certain level of physicial and mental maturity. And remembering prayers/hadiths does not mean one has a sharp mind - it only means they are good at remembering. Any 9 year old can do that.