This topic is locked from further discussion.
So basically, it is only part of Bible because of it's significance as word of God (according to christian belief). It is not meant to be followed.
MFaraz_Hayat
What is there to follow in the OT? The Ten Commandments are important..yes. But Jesus summed them into two commandments that would cover the entire ten.
One of the things He preached against was following rules but missing the message.
[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Just to clarify for the dude that said eating pork is against Christianity. It is not. Please check your facts first.:)MFaraz_Hayat
Deutronomy 14 :7-8
Old Testament. Christians can eat whatever the hell they want.
Is leviticus too part of old testament? Can some christian tell me that why is old testament part of Bible when Christians are only meant to follow New Testament?
The Old Testament is JEWISH LAW. CHRISTIANS DO NOT = JEWS.
In the quran I mean.
I've never read the old testment.
gamingqueen
I realize....but that interpretation doesn't fit with the history of God's message.
Delicate to discuss this because I don't want you to think I'm bashing your religion.
[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]So basically, it is only part of Bible because of it's significance as word of God (according to christian belief). It is not meant to be followed.
LJS9502_basic
What is there to follow in the OT? The Ten Commandments are important..yes. But Jesus summed them into two commandments that would cover the entire ten.
One of the things He preached against was following rules but missing the message.
By following I meant side instructions: like not eating pork etc.
Why is it that Mohammed cannot be drawn? Is it to avoid the idolizing of the prophet? If so, this is smart, because lately all the ultra-conservitive Christians have made Jesus out to be the main focus of the religion. Which is false.
Thing is, in Christianity, Jesus is more than just a prophet, he was God incarnate. In Islam, Mohammad was only a prophet. Ummm... right?
By following I meant side instructions: like not eating pork etc.
MFaraz_Hayat
None of those laws are important to Christianity. The message in the NT is.
[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]In the quran I mean.
I've never read the old testment.
LJS9502_basic
I realize....but that interpretation doesn't fit with the history of God's message.
Delicate to discuss this because I don't want you to think I'm bashing your religion.
come on :P it's not bashing or anything! You know I likeit when someone opens these topics because it's a chance for people like you to know more about Islam...
What's god's messege in OT? God's messege and the point of sending all the prophets is to prove god's existence according to Islam.
[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]By following I meant side instructions: like not eating pork etc.
LJS9502_basic
None of those laws are important to Christianity. The message in the NT is.
The Jews and Christians are also forbidden from eating pork. Here is a quote from the Old Testament to that effect: "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 14:8 Many Christians believe that this verse was directed only at the Jews. But Jesus himself says during the Sermon on the Mount; "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Some Christians say that, after a vision by St. Peter, God cleansed all animals and made them fit and lawful for human consumption. If ALL animals are cleansed by Peter's vision, this includes dogs, cats, vultures, and rats: but you just don't see people getting excited about a cat-meat sandwich like they do over barbecued pork or bacon. Others say that it was Paul who rescinded the law forbidding pork to humans, in order to appease the Romans, who enjoyed the taste.
This is not my work. It was written by another christian on some other forum and I have pasted it here. What do you think about this? Any comments...
come on :P it's not bashing or anything! You know I likeit when someone opens these topics because it's a chance for people like you to know more about Islam...
What's god's messege in OT? God's messege and the point of sending all the prophets is to prove god's existence according to Islam.
gamingqueen
The OT is about God's covenant with man. His promise to send a messiah. He spoke this through the prophets.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]By following I meant side instructions: like not eating pork etc.
MFaraz_Hayat
None of those laws are important to Christianity. The message in the NT is.
The Jews and Christians are also forbidden from eating pork. Here is a quote from the Old Testament to that effect: "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 14:8 Many Christians believe that this verse was directed only at the Jews. But Jesus himself says during the Sermon on the Mount; "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Some Christians say that, after a vision by St. Peter, God cleansed all animals and made them fit and lawful for human consumption. If ALL animals are cleansed by Peter's vision, this includes dogs, cats, vultures, and rats: but you just don't see people getting excited about a cat-meat sandwich like they do over barbecued pork or bacon. Others say that it was Paul who rescinded the law forbidding pork to humans, in order to appease the Romans, who enjoyed the taste.
This is not my work. It was written by another christian on some other forum and I have pasted it here. What do you think about this? Any comments...
"I came not to destroy, but to fulfill."
BINGO!
The OT was fulfilled by Jesus in the NT. The laws of the OT do not apply. Here's one law from the OT that expressses exactly that: Sacrifice. People were ordered to sacrifice animals before Jesus died; after that, no sacrifices. Why? Because sacrificial law was overwritten by Jesus; It was fulfilled.
The Jews and Christians are also forbidden from eating pork. Here is a quote from the Old Testament to that effect: "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 14:8 Many Christians believe that this verse was directed only at the Jews. But Jesus himself says during the Sermon on the Mount; "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Some Christians say that, after a vision by St. Peter, God cleansed all animals and made them fit and lawful for human consumption. If ALL animals are cleansed by Peter's vision, this includes dogs, cats, vultures, and rats: but you just don't see people getting excited about a cat-meat sandwich like they do over barbecued pork or bacon. Others say that it was Paul who rescinded the law forbidding pork to humans, in order to appease the Romans, who enjoyed the taste.
This is not my work. It was written by another christian on some other forum and I have pasted it here. What do you think about this? Any comments...
MFaraz_Hayat
I think that you shouldn't believe what you necessarily read on a forum. Obviously, this Christian is incorrect. There is no sect of Christianity that I have EVER heard of that states eating pork is forbidden.
Christianity is different from the Jewish faith. We don't celebrate their holidays..and they don't celebrate ours. Jesus did speak out about the pharisees following rules yet missing the message more than once. One reason He wasn't so popular with them. They were like royalty at the time...and He called them out on their actions.
[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]By following I meant side instructions: like not eating pork etc.
Dracargen
None of those laws are important to Christianity. The message in the NT is.
The Jews and Christians are also forbidden from eating pork. Here is a quote from the Old Testament to that effect: "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 14:8 Many Christians believe that this verse was directed only at the Jews. But Jesus himself says during the Sermon on the Mount; "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Some Christians say that, after a vision by St. Peter, God cleansed all animals and made them fit and lawful for human consumption. If ALL animals are cleansed by Peter's vision, this includes dogs, cats, vultures, and rats: but you just don't see people getting excited about a cat-meat sandwich like they do over barbecued pork or bacon. Others say that it was Paul who rescinded the law forbidding pork to humans, in order to appease the Romans, who enjoyed the taste.
This is not my work. It was written by another christian on some other forum and I have pasted it here. What do you think about this? Any comments...
"I came not to destroy, but to fulfill."
BINGO!
The OT was fulfilled by Jesus in the NT. The laws of the OT do not apply. Here's one law from the OT that expressses exactly that: Sacrifice. People were ordered to sacrifice animals before Jesus died; after that, no sacrifices. Why? Because sacrificial law was overwritten by Jesus; It was fulfilled.
So by fulfillment christians mean abolish? If it is getting over written, it is getting changed, then it is abolishing.
[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]The Jews and Christians are also forbidden from eating pork. Here is a quote from the Old Testament to that effect: "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 14:8 Many Christians believe that this verse was directed only at the Jews. But Jesus himself says during the Sermon on the Mount; "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Some Christians say that, after a vision by St. Peter, God cleansed all animals and made them fit and lawful for human consumption. If ALL animals are cleansed by Peter's vision, this includes dogs, cats, vultures, and rats: but you just don't see people getting excited about a cat-meat sandwich like they do over barbecued pork or bacon. Others say that it was Paul who rescinded the law forbidding pork to humans, in order to appease the Romans, who enjoyed the taste.
This is not my work. It was written by another christian on some other forum and I have pasted it here. What do you think about this? Any comments...
LJS9502_basic
I think that you shouldn't believe what you necessarily read on a forum. Obviously, this Christian is incorrect. There is no sect of Christianity that I have EVER heard of that states eating pork is forbidden.
Christianity is different from the Jewish faith. We don't celebrate their holidays..and they don't celebrate ours. Jesus did speak out about the pharisees following rules yet missing the message more than once. One reason He wasn't so popular with them. They were like royalty at the time...and He called them out on their actions.
Okay. It's just I didn't know about this previously.
[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]The Jews and Christians are also forbidden from eating pork. Here is a quote from the Old Testament to that effect: "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 14:8 Many Christians believe that this verse was directed only at the Jews. But Jesus himself says during the Sermon on the Mount; "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Some Christians say that, after a vision by St. Peter, God cleansed all animals and made them fit and lawful for human consumption. If ALL animals are cleansed by Peter's vision, this includes dogs, cats, vultures, and rats: but you just don't see people getting excited about a cat-meat sandwich like they do over barbecued pork or bacon. Others say that it was Paul who rescinded the law forbidding pork to humans, in order to appease the Romans, who enjoyed the taste.
This is not my work. It was written by another christian on some other forum and I have pasted it here. What do you think about this? Any comments...
LJS9502_basic
I think that you shouldn't believe what you necessarily read on a forum. Obviously, this Christian is incorrect. There is no sect of Christianity that I have EVER heard of that states eating pork is forbidden.
Christianity is different from the Jewish faith. We don't celebrate their holidays..and they don't celebrate ours. Jesus did speak out about the pharisees following rules yet missing the message more than once. One reason He wasn't so popular with them. They were like royalty at the time...and He called them out on their actions.
Ahh, couldn't help myself.
You've basically summerized the message that i was trying to express in my previous post. You can have faith in your god without having to incorporate some archaic customs into your lives in the modern world that we live in today. When you become fixated on a religious rule that tells you what you can and can't eat, drink, or wear, you lose the global and important message of the religion.
Though I'm not as familiar with christian theology as i probably should be, the idea that one should love god and each other is fairly universal. I think that once you infuse too many riogrous rules into religion, it corrupts the central message and people become preocupied with the rules rather than the message.
my 2 cents.
hagii, you sir are a Munafiq. You yourself say that you do not like the religion yet you say you are still muslim. Hypocracy at its finest.
Besides you are not very well educated about Islam by the way you are answering some questions. Many answers you gave are utterly incorect. I suggest not listening to some random guy on the forum claiming to be muslim and answering so and so questions about a religion he himself thinks is flawed.
[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]I have a few Islamic flavoured questions...
1) Why are pigs dirtier than other farmyard animals?
2) Why trust the same scientific framework for discovery that would find no evidence of Allah?
3) Seeing as the Koran is based on the same Arameic writings as the Old Testement, do you believe the Christian God is the same God as the Islamic God? If so, why are Christians thought of similarly to infidels by Muslims? (For example, they will be danmed in the afterlife...)
4) Why do Islamic people not believe in freedom of democracy and other peoples' views, rather impose Sharia law on Islamic societies? I'm sure you can see that in societies where Sharia law is in place, there is great hatred, radicalism, corruption and human rights attrocities, almost without exception...
With regards,
gamingqueen
1) Prohibitting eating pigs is due to the reasons I provided in the post above yours.
2)Ifthey made a study on an entirely subject other than proving god's existence then why not? Because the holy quran has already proven god's exsistence. Just because we don't agree on certain subjects doesn't mean we don't agree on most subjects!
3)We believe that Jesus is a prophet and that he's not the son of god. We don't believe in trinity. God is the only judge in judegment day.. we don't know what will happen to christians and jews but in the holy quran god says in this meaning that some of the jews and chrsitians will go to heaven.
4)No no no.. you're talking to a law student in Kuwait university and this is not true. Most countries apply latin laws which are improved by french laws. The key is in using sharia laws. Sharia laws are sadly part of civil laws.
I thank you for posting questions in that respectful manner...
With respect,
1 - you did not answer my question. There is no reason to say that pigs are less clean than any other farmyard animal. Saying they are is irrational and not bounded by any scientific backing. Pigs are not cheap either - have you seen the price of bacon recently?
2 - The Koran does not prove Gods existance. Proof, in a scientific context, is supported by evidence aside from testemony. The scientific framework is deductive, meaning there are no first principles! That is why the scientific framework would find no evidence of truth in the source of any religion.
3 - The Koran says in 2:62 that "Only those Jews and Christians who convert to Islam will be rewarded with heaven". The Koran specifically mentions acts of violence towards infidels and dissuades islamists from having Christian friends. (i.e. 9:5, 5:54). Do you interpret these verses differently to me? Why would this be written in the Koran, if there is just the one God?
4 - Perhaps you miss the Kuwait law forbidding women to vote, repression of the Bidun, and police repression of political agitants and reporters appearing throughout the Amnesty International website. Sharia law, a fundamental Islamic construct, represses alternative views and restricts peoples' freedom to choose. It ultimatley disposes the fate of entire nations to the whims of the religious bigots.
I appreciate your further answers and discussion, although I know it says in the Koran that Islamic people should never argue with infidels about Islam. In fact, here's what is says in the Koran about people who "disbelieve" in Islam. Surely, with over 500 quotes inciting hatred and death to unbelievers in the Koran, is it any wonder that some people "mis-interpret" it and commit terrorist acts, based on their understanding of these texts?
[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"]Is leviticus too part of old testament? Can some christian tell me that why is old testament part of Bible when Christians are only meant to follow New Testament?
LJS9502_basic
Because God is the same God...and the OT prophesied Jesus' coming. However, the culture and Jewish laws of that period are considered archaic and not necessary to faith in God.
Yes Leviticus is part of the OT.
You say all Gods are really just one God, but a survey by the BBC says "When asked if their God was the only true God, 95% of Muslims said yes, compared with 68% of Christians and 66% of Jews." If the god is the same, why are the laws and beliefs so different, assuming all religions are following Gods divine teachings?
[QUOTE="gamingqueen"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]I have a few Islamic flavoured questions...
1) Why are pigs dirtier than other farmyard animals?
2) Why trust the same scientific framework for discovery that would find no evidence of Allah?
3) Seeing as the Koran is based on the same Arameic writings as the Old Testement, do you believe the Christian God is the same God as the Islamic God? If so, why are Christians thought of similarly to infidels by Muslims? (For example, they will be danmed in the afterlife...)
4) Why do Islamic people not believe in freedom of democracy and other peoples' views, rather impose Sharia law on Islamic societies? I'm sure you can see that in societies where Sharia law is in place, there is great hatred, radicalism, corruption and human rights attrocities, almost without exception...
With regards,
RationalAtheist
1) Prohibitting eating pigs is due to the reasons I provided in the post above yours.
2)Ifthey made a study on an entirely subject other than proving god's existence then why not? Because the holy quran has already proven god's exsistence. Just because we don't agree on certain subjects doesn't mean we don't agree on most subjects!
3)We believe that Jesus is a prophet and that he's not the son of god. We don't believe in trinity. God is the only judge in judegment day.. we don't know what will happen to christians and jews but in the holy quran god says in this meaning that some of the jews and chrsitians will go to heaven.
4)No no no.. you're talking to a law student in Kuwait university and this is not true. Most countries apply latin laws which are improved by french laws. The key is in using sharia laws. Sharia laws are sadly part of civil laws.
I thank you for posting questions in that respectful manner...
With respect,
1 - you did not answer my question. There is no reason to say that pigs are less clean than any other farmyard animal. Saying they are is irrational and not bounded by any scientific backing. Pigs are not cheap either - have you seen the price of bacon recently?
2 - The Koran does not prove Gods existance. Proof, in a scientific context, is supported by evidence aside from testemony. The scientific framework is deductive, meaning there are no first principles! That is why the scientific framework would find no evidence of truth in the source of any religion.
3 - The Koran says in 2:62 that "Only those Jews and Christians who convert to Islam will be rewarded with heaven". The Koran specifically mentions acts of violence towards infidels and dissuades islamists from having Christian friends. (i.e. 9:5, 5:54). Do you interpret these verses differently to me? Why would this be written in the Koran, if there is just the one God?
4 - Perhaps you miss the Kuwait law forbidding women to vote, repression of the Bidun, and police repression of political agitants and reporters appearing throughout the Amnesty International website. Sharia law, a fundamental Islamic construct, represses alternative views and restricts peoples' freedom to choose. It ultimatley disposes the fate of entire nations to the whims of the religious bigots.
I appreciate your further answers and discussion, although I know it says in the Koran that Islamic people should never argue with infidels about Islam. In fact, here's what is says in the Koran about people who "disbelieve" in Islam. Surely, with over 500 quotes inciting hatred and death to unbelievers in the Koran, is it any wonder that some people "mis-interpret" it and commit terrorist acts, based on their understanding of these texts?
1- Repeat: Pigs live on trash. They're being raised in dirty farms and the feed on what they get rid of= they feed on sh**.
2- No. Don't takeverses out of context please. I am muslim and Arab therefore I understand and you don't.
3-Same..
4-I live in Kuwait and I work in bidoon/statless issues as I'm an activist... please don't teach me about what's going on in my own country! Please please please! I know because I live there! All you're doing is looking on wikipedia and googling for things while I actually live there!
Women in Kuwait got their rights after a battle which lasted for 40 years. Kuwait was an independant state in year 1961. The women in us got their rights after 200 something years... they got their political rights in the 60s after burining their bras and refusing to eat or work and the U.S. was an independant country in 1789. I studied that so please don't try to tell me that what I have studied is wrong and do not always wikipedia because it's not accurate. Wikipedia takes articles from one resource while we read cases of different countries and writers everyday! Wikipedia publishes the articles which go along with their views and belifes, while we study cases and articles which go against our views and what we believe in. I'm both educated and a Kuwaity person so not listening to me directly and reading something which is copied from books written by an orientlist who only lived in the middle east for two weeks is what I call ignorance!
And amnesty website needs an update because women got their political rights in june 05!
Andthat has thing got do with this whole issue... Islam says give the people their basic rights and latin laws which are mostly done by people and sadly laws in my country are being made by unworthy people don't give the bidoon their basic rights! Didn't I say the key is in using the sharia laws?
I have a few Islamic flavoured questions...
1) Why are pigs dirtier than other farmyard animals?
2) Why trust the same scientific framework for discovery that would find no evidence of Allah?
3) Seeing as the Koran is based on the same Arameic writings as the Old Testement, do you believe the Christian God is the same God as the Islamic God? If so, why are Christians thought of similarly to infidels by Muslims? (For example, they will be danmed in the afterlife...)
4) Why do Islamic people not believe in freedom of democracy and other peoples' views, rather impose Sharia law on Islamic societies? I'm sure you can see that in societies where Sharia law is in place, there is great hatred, radicalism, corruption and human rights attrocities, almost without exception...
With regards,
RationalAtheist
This is why Islam prohibits pork:
1. Prohibition in Earlier Scriptures
Islam is a culmination of the same monotheistic religion that was revealed to earlier prophets. Although the Glorious Qur'an is the only revelation that is extant in its original revealed text, some remnants of earlier revelations can be found in the Bible.
The Bible prohibits the consumption of pork, in the book of Leviticus
"And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you".
"Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch, they are unclean to you."
[Leviticus 11:7-8]
Pork is also prohibited in the Bible in the book of Deuteronomy
"And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass."
[Deuteronomy 14:8]
A similar prohibition is repeated in the Bible in the book of Isaiah chapter 65 verse 2-5.
2. The Nature of Pork
The main utility of pigs in the ecosystem is as scavengers. They live and thrive on muck, feces and dirt.
It could be argued that in developed countries, pigs are bred in very clean and hygienic conditions. Even in these hygienic conditions the pigs are kept together in sties, and so the chances of them consuming filth are very high.
3. Health Aspects
Research has shown correlation between pork consumption and several diseases. Eating pork can expose the individual to various helminthes (worms) like roundworm, pinworm and hookworm. One of the most dangerous of worms is Taenia Solium, which, in lay man's terminology is called the pork tapeworm. It harbors in the intestine and is very long. Its ova i.e. eggs, enter the blood stream and can reach almost all the organs of the body. If it enters the brain it can cause memory loss. If it enters the heart it can cause heart attack, in the eye it can cause blindness, and in the liver it can cause liver damage. It can damage almost all the organs of the body.
A common misconception about pork is that if it is cooked well, these ova die. In a research project undertaken in America, it was found that out of twenty-four people suffering from Trichura Tichurasis (another worm commonly found in pork), twenty two had cooked the pork very well. This indicates that the ova present in the pork do not die under normal cooking temperature.
Pork has very little muscle building material and contains excess of fat. This fat gets deposited in the vessels and can cause hypertension and heart attack. It is not surprising that hypertension is a common ailment due to the prevalence of the consumption of pork.
Thus the prohibition of pork in Islam is a blessing.
[QUOTE="MFaraz_Hayat"][QUOTE="spierdalaj666"]Ok, so le'ts take it issue by issue. I recall reading in the quran or in the hadiths that muhammad commanded that his troops raid their enemies' caravans and steal their goods, suggesting that he condoned stealing, as long as it's from an enemy.
I'm sorry but one could say that any food is bad for your health. I'm sure cow and lamb are bad as well, especially lamb given how fatty it is. Who cares if eating pork is forbidden in christinity? I think that many christians are probably smart enough not to care what some guy a couple thousand years ago said about eating a type of meat.
Pork is scientifically proven that it is one of the dirties animals.
Also, no one still provided a counter-argument to what i said about the hookah. Smoking is medically known to be much worse for you and for those around you than a glass of wine, so why is one forbidden but not the other? It makes no sense.
Smoking is not haram until it gets to the point that it is unhealthy, then it is prohibited and you shall not smoke once it becomes unhealthy.As for the beating, i recall reading protocols from the quran about how much a man can beat his wife, though i don't recall the specific reasons for why one should engage in domestic violence.
Men are allowed to beat their wives in certain situations such as women commiting intercourse with another man, then it is prohibited.As for women being equal, isn't is said that a daughter to a father is almost like a curse, something for him to rid himself of and give her away to her husband so that he can suffer her. I don't have the proper quotation for this but again i recall reading it.
No it isn't.A bit off-topic i know, but teachings like this in my opinion aren't adapted for the modern world. You can drink this not that, eat this not that, dress like this not like that. I'm sorry but this what society was like hundreds of years ago, not just in the middle east, but the muslim religion hasn't adapted to the modern world and i think that this is the reason why there is so much hostility abound on all sides.
spierdalaj666
Why do you believe in Islam?GettingTired
Because it makes most sense... It is a religion of peace.
hagii, you sir are a Munafiq. You yourself say that you do not like the religion yet you say you are still muslim. Hypocracy at its finest.
Besides you are not very well educated about Islam by the way you are answering some questions. Many answers you gave are utterly incorect. I suggest not listening to some random guy on the forum claiming to be muslim and answering so and so questions about a religion he himself thinks is flawed.
RAZZY_B
It's really simple, sunnis are people who love all of the sahaba( people who are loved by the prophet, some of them are close relatives, and mostly people who have been given the praise of entering heaven before their deaths), however shiites desregard some of these people, especially the great ones such as Abu Bakr and Omar. Well that's just a quick little brief summary of what the whole thing is about.[QUOTE="hagiiiiiiiiii"][QUOTE="1stCommando"]Oh yeah another one. Why do Shiites and Sunnis hate eachother? And what's the difference between the two? I've heard one is more hardcore than the other.dragon_master11
that was bull**** we dont hate the sahabas u guys think that abu bakr was the first khalif when the prophet himself said ali and the rest of his family will be the khalifs evan thouhgt i can prove u wrong well just have to wait for imam al-mahdi or as u call hi al-mahdi for the answers
and the reason we dont get along is because the terrorist groups would be like sunnis kidnap shiah and shiah kidnap sunnih
but in the end it dosent matter because the prophet niether shiah or sinneh he was muslim
I rather stay away from these types of arguements on a gaming board, the idea is not to fight between Muslims but clearly to explain Islam, you've done a great job in ruining that.Two questions does it say in the quran that when you die you will go to heavan and be with 72 virgins?
Also Do your scriptures say you are not to be freinds with christians and jews?
123625
Yes and it's mentioned as one of the rewards of heaven.
No. The holy quran says that we should be nice to jews and christians and it doesn't encourage us to hate them and we believe in Moses pbuh and Jesus pbuh.
[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"][QUOTE="GettingTired"]Why do you believe in Islam?NasRex
Because it makes most sense... It is a religion of peace.
Wow i may be ignorent but it sure hasnt shown itself to be a religion of peace.
That's because most of your judgements are based on biased opinions of today's muslims. If you look into the Islamic history, Muslims have built the most magnificent empires. The world revolved around the Islamic Empires who ruled the world in justice and peace.[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"][QUOTE="GettingTired"]Why do you believe in Islam?NasRex
Because it makes most sense... It is a religion of peace.
Wow i may be ignorent but it sure hasnt shown itself to be a religion of peace.
same can be said about christians.
What do you mean give me an example please.
[QUOTE="gamingqueen"][QUOTE="GettingTired"]Why do you believe in Islam?123625
Because it makes most sense... It is a religion of peace.
Wow i may be ignorent but it sure hasnt shown itself to be a religion of peace.
Sorry... it's a religion of external and internal peace! Will how about you come here and see it for yourself?
[QUOTE="123625"]Two questions does it say in the quran that when you die you will go to heavan and be with 72 virgins?
Also Do your scriptures say you are not to be freinds with christians and jews?
gamingqueen
Yes and it's mentioned as one of the rewards of heaven.
No. The holy quran says that we should be nice to jews and christians and it doesn't encourage us to hate them and we believe in Moses pbuh and Jesus pbuh.
Is it also true that your Quran(by the way im asking i dont know anything about islam or the quran) asys That muhammad married a 6 year old girl then had Sex with her at 9?
[QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"][QUOTE="GettingTired"]Why do you believe in Islam?123625
Because it makes most sense... It is a religion of peace.
Wow i may be ignorent but it sure hasnt shown itself to be a religion of peace.
same can be said about christians.
What do you mean give me an example please.
He means you should book a ticket and come over here and see how things are like with your own eyes. Look buddy it's not like what you see on tv.
[QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"][QUOTE="GettingTired"]Why do you believe in Islam?123625
Because it makes most sense... It is a religion of peace.
Wow i may be ignorent but it sure hasnt shown itself to be a religion of peace.
same can be said about christians.
What do you mean give me an example please.
Every heard of something called Spanish Inquisition?
what ever happend to those poor 1st nations and all that gold?
you want more?
[QUOTE="gamingqueen"][QUOTE="123625"]Is it also true that your Quran(by the way im asking i dont know anything about islam or the quran) asys That muhammad married a 6 year old girl then had Sex with her at 9?
123625
I will give a quotation of my previous posting, please, if you find anything that should be corrected, please inform me with the correct sources.
Her name was Aisha,pbuh. Aisha had completely gone through her menstrual cycle at the age of 9, ( let me refer to you that in England the average age is 18, in France it's 17, in holland it's 12) so these are just arbitrary numbers thrown around, so her body was not at the age of a 9 year old but rather around 20 year old girl who has fully developed her body. Not just physically but her sharpness at the age of 9 was crystal claer, she was profound of remembering many hadith's and teaching them to the general women in public. Yes prophet married her for the spreading of Islam and also that he loved her, however it is wrong to misconcept the image of a 9 year old girl with a 54 year old man, when in reality the 9 year old girl is someone who is to be considered a woman physically and mentally, it could be said that Aisha's memory and her sharpness has not been found in anywomen who might have stepped on to this earth.
[QUOTE="GettingTired"]Why do you believe in Islam?gamingqueen
Because it makes most sense... It is a religion of peace.
It's not in the quran it's in the narations and there's a difference.
Yes Aisha married the propeht when she was 9 and not 6. There had been many kind of marriges before Islam and Islam put an end to many of them including those who marry over 5 women. People used to get married at a very young age and not just the prophet pbuh because they didn't work, they didn't have college, they pretty much didn'thave anything to do other than starting a family. The prophet pbuh died in 57 i the lunar calendar and marrying girls at the age of 11 and under was prohibited in 1910. Why did it take all that long to prohibit that kind of marriage? Does it mean there were other people beside msulims who were marrying underrage girls?
[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="NasRex"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"][QUOTE="GettingTired"]Why do you believe in Islam?NasRex
Because it makes most sense... It is a religion of peace.
Wow i may be ignorent but it sure hasnt shown itself to be a religion of peace.
same can be said about christians.
What do you mean give me an example please.
Every heard of something called Spanish Inquisition?
what ever happend to those poor 1st nations and all that gold?
you want more?
[QUOTE="gamingqueen"][QUOTE="GettingTired"]Why do you believe in Islam?GettingTired
Because it makes most sense... It is a religion of peace.
Because Budda was a human,not a god.
[QUOTE="gamingqueen"][QUOTE="GettingTired"]Why do you believe in Islam?GettingTired
Because it makes most sense... It is a religion of peace.
Because they're not abrahamic religions. Why aren't I jew nor chritian because I believe in Jesus and Moses but the scriptures were changed by people to please their kings over the centuries and Islam wasn't. Do you see why there's always a war over Islam? Religion always gets in the way of greedy people!!!! This time, we're not going to allow it!
[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]GettingTired
[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]I have a few Islamic flavoured questions...
1) Why are pigs dirtier than other farmyard animals?
2) Why trust the same scientific framework for discovery that would find no evidence of Allah?
3) Seeing as the Koran is based on the same Arameic writings as the Old Testement, do you believe the Christian God is the same God as the Islamic God? If so, why are Christians thought of similarly to infidels by Muslims? (For example, they will be danmed in the afterlife...)
4) Why do Islamic people not believe in freedom of democracy and other peoples' views, rather impose Sharia law on Islamic societies? I'm sure you can see that in societies where Sharia law is in place, there is great hatred, radicalism, corruption and human rights attrocities, almost without exception...
With regards,
gamingqueen
1) Prohibitting eating pigs is due to the reasons I provided in the post above yours.
2)Ifthey made a study on an entirely subject other than proving god's existence then why not? Because the holy quran has already proven god's exsistence. Just because we don't agree on certain subjects doesn't mean we don't agree on most subjects!
3)We believe that Jesus is a prophet and that he's not the son of god. We don't believe in trinity. God is the only judge in judegment day.. we don't know what will happen to christians and jews but in the holy quran god says in this meaning that some of the jews and chrsitians will go to heaven.
4)No no no.. you're talking to a law student in Kuwait university and this is not true. Most countries apply latin laws which are improved by french laws. The key is in using sharia laws. Sharia laws are sadly part of civil laws.
I thank you for posting questions in that respectful manner...
With respect,
1 - you did not answer my question. There is no reason to say that pigs are less clean than any other farmyard animal. Saying they are is irrational and not bounded by any scientific backing. Pigs are not cheap either - have you seen the price of bacon recently?
2 - The Koran does not prove Gods existance. Proof, in a scientific context, is supported by evidence aside from testemony. The scientific framework is deductive, meaning there are no first principles! That is why the scientific framework would find no evidence of truth in the source of any religion.
3 - The Koran says in 2:62 that "Only those Jews and Christians who convert to Islam will be rewarded with heaven". The Koran specifically mentions acts of violence towards infidels and dissuades islamists from having Christian friends. (i.e. 9:5, 5:54). Do you interpret these verses differently to me? Why would this be written in the Koran, if there is just the one God?
4 - Perhaps you miss the Kuwait law forbidding women to vote, repression of the Bidun, and police repression of political agitants and reporters appearing throughout the Amnesty International website. Sharia law, a fundamental Islamic construct, represses alternative views and restricts peoples' freedom to choose. It ultimatley disposes the fate of entire nations to the whims of the religious bigots.
I appreciate your further answers and discussion, although I know it says in the Koran that Islamic people should never argue with infidels about Islam. In fact, here's what is says in the Koran about people who "disbelieve" in Islam. Surely, with over 500 quotes inciting hatred and death to unbelievers in the Koran, is it any wonder that some people "mis-interpret" it and commit terrorist acts, based on their understanding of these texts?
1- Repeat: Pigs live on trash. They're being raised in dirty farms and the feed on what they get rid of= they feed on sh**.
2- No. Don't takeverses out of context please. I am muslim and Arab therefore I understand and you don't.
3-Same..
4-I live in Kuwait and I work in bidoon/statless issues as I'm an activist... please don't teach me about what's going on in my own country! Please please please! I know because I live there! All you're doing is looking on wikipedia and googling for things while I actually live there!
Women in Kuwait got their rights after a battle which lasted for 40 years. Kuwait was an independant state in year 1961. The women in us got their rights after 200 something years... they got their political rights in the 60s after burining their bras and refusing to eat or work and the U.S. was an independant country in 1789. I studied that so please don't try to tell me that what I have studied is wrong and do not always wikipedia because it's not accurate. Wikipedia takes articles from one resource while we read cases of different countries and writers everyday! Wikipedia publishes the articles which go along with their views and belifes, while we study cases and articles which go against our views and what we believe in. I'm both educated and a Kuwaity person so not listening to me directly and reading something which is copied from books written by an orientlist who only lived in the middle east for two weeks is what I call ignorance!
And amnesty website needs an update because women got their political rights in june 05!
Andthat has thing got do with this whole issue... Islam says give the people their basic rights and latin laws which are mostly done by people and sadly laws in my country are being made by unworthy people don't give the bidoon their basic rights! Didn't I say the key is in using the sharia laws?
1 - Pigs eat pig food. All farmyard animals live in and eat their own crap - all of them! Go to a farm and see for yourself... Views about dirtyness have changed radically in the past few years. The real stuff to worry about is the stuff you can't see. This new focus on bacterial and viral cleanlyness make Koranic views on hygene redundant. Pigs are no more dirty than any other farmyard animal.
2 - Can only Arabs understand, or are you just being arrogant?
3 - Lazy? Or can't answer?
4 - Women have had the vote for just 2 years? Can they hold any positions in office? Are you saying unworthy Imams are running your country? Are they not place there by Allah?
[QUOTE="GettingTired"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"][QUOTE="GettingTired"]Why do you believe in Islam?gamingqueen
Because it makes most sense... It is a religion of peace.
Because they're not abrahamic religions. Why aren't I jew nor chritian because I believe in Jesus and Moses but the scriptures were changed by people to please their kinds over the centuries and Islam wasn't. Do you see why there's always a war over Islam? Religion always gets in the way of greedy people!!!! This time, we're not going to allow it!
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