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[QUOTE="BlindBluMonstah"][QUOTE="MushroomWig"] Really? I'm voting for them and I can't wait. :)MushroomWigi agree with dave :) lib dems ftw :D Lol, we both know they have no chance.
hahah well we all know they have 100x more chance than the BNP :lol:
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Cut the ties then? Well I asked jimmy and he didn't answer so I'll ask you. Does the tax benefits extend to all churches and not just specific churches? We allow all churches a tax benefit in the states.I have no idea... why does that matter? I'm suggesting that the church shouldn't receive special tax privileges... any church. Okay it's just that you singled out the Christian Church which is why I asked.[QUOTE="clyde46"] Nope.jimmyjammer69
Lol, we both know they have no chance.[QUOTE="MushroomWig"][QUOTE="BlindBluMonstah"] i agree with dave :) lib dems ftw :DBlindBluMonstah
hahah well we all know they have 100x more chance than the BNP :lol:
But, the BNP will gain support. Not in the House of Commans but from the people who are fed up with immigration. Like it or not. They are getting more popular.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Is your church not a government entity? Nope.Progress is all about moving forward from medieval times not embracing them.
clyde46
Thats not entirely true. The church is allowed 4 bishops in the house of lords. Its not a major stake but its something
[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Cut the ties then? Well I asked jimmy and he didn't answer so I'll ask you. Does the tax benefits extend to all churches and not just specific churches? We allow all churches a tax benefit in the states.I have no idea... why does that matter? I'm suggesting that the church shouldn't receive special tax privileges... any church. Okay it's just that you singled out the Christian Church which is why I asked.LJS9502_basic
Because we've fought pretty hard to keep religious reasoning out of the law here over the past half century or so. It was only in 1949 that we finally even killed off blasphemy laws in Britain, with this comment from Lord Denning:
"...it was thought that a denial of Christianity was liable to shake the fabric of society, which was itself founded upon Christian religion. There is no such danger to society now and the offence of blasphemy is a dead letter".
[QUOTE="BlindBluMonstah"][QUOTE="MushroomWig"] Lol, we both know they have no chance.clyde46
hahah well we all know they have 100x more chance than the BNP :lol:
But, the BNP will gain support. Not in the House of Commans but from the people who are fed up with immigration. Like it or not. They are getting more popular. well hopefully a non racist party proposes to do something about the immigration, so people dont have to turn to the BNP. . . :)Okay it's just that you singled out the Christian Church which is why I asked.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]I have no idea... why does that matter? I'm suggesting that the church shouldn't receive special tax privileges... any church.jimmyjammer69
Because we've fought pretty hard to keep religious reasoning out of the law here over the past half century or so. It was only in 1949 that we finally even killed off blasphemy laws in Britain, with this comment from Lord Denning:
"...it was thought that a denial of Christianity was liable to shake the fabric of society, which was itself founded upon Christian religion. There is no such danger to society now and the offence of blasphemy is a dead letter".
Okay then that means you have no religious considerations for your law. Tax benefits are not allowing the church a say in your government. However, if you allow new laws based on the religious views of a group....then you are going backward. I don't think you have anything to fear from that happening with the Christian denominations in this day and age.[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Okay it's just that you singled out the Christian Church which is why I asked.LJS9502_basic
Because we've fought pretty hard to keep religious reasoning out of the law here over the past half century or so. It was only in 1949 that we finally even killed off blasphemy laws in Britain, with this comment from Lord Denning:
"...it was thought that a denial of Christianity was liable to shake the fabric of society, which was itself founded upon Christian religion. There is no such danger to society now and the offence of blasphemy is a dead letter".
Okay then that means you have no religious considerations for your law. Tax benefits are not allowing the church a say in your government. However, if you allow new laws based on the religious views of a group....then you are going backward. I don't think you have anything to fear from that happening with the Christian denominations in this day and age.The way I see it, we have a society which had been attached for centuries to a religious tradition which no longer reflects the beliefs and attitudes of most Brits. The Blasphemy laws were only the visible shoots of non-secularism in Britain. The job of lawmakers now is to ensure they're flushing out other more tangled roots from our soil. Positive discrimination towards muslim law could be seen as a kind of redressive measure, I suppose, as any future arguments against religious favouritism is also going to have to address Christianity's attachment to the state too.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Okay then that means you have no religious considerations for your law. Tax benefits are not allowing the church a say in your government. However, if you allow new laws based on the religious views of a group....then you are going backward. I don't think you have anything to fear from that happening with the Christian denominations in this day and age.The way I see it, we have a society which had been attached for centuries to a religious tradition which no longer reflects the beliefs and attitudes of most Brits. The Blasphemy laws were only the visible shoots of non-secularism in Britain. The job of lawmakers now is to ensure they're flushing out other more tangled roots from our soil. Positive discrimination towards muslim law could be seen as a kind of redressive measure, I suppose, as any future arguments against religious favouritism is also going to have to address Christianity's attachment to the state too.Yeah but you just said the government doesn't allow Christianity to make your laws. So the beliefs of others are not of concern to the society as long as it doesn't infringe on that society. I'm sure you aren't proposing limiting the freedom of people?Because we've fought pretty hard to keep religious reasoning out of the law here over the past half century or so. It was only in 1949 that we finally even killed off blasphemy laws in Britain, with this comment from Lord Denning:
"...it was thought that a denial of Christianity was liable to shake the fabric of society, which was itself founded upon Christian religion. There is no such danger to society now and the offence of blasphemy is a dead letter".
jimmyjammer69
The way I see it, we have a society which had been attached for centuries to a religious tradition which no longer reflects the beliefs and attitudes of most Brits. The Blasphemy laws were only the visible shoots of non-secularism in Britain. The job of lawmakers now is to ensure they're flushing out other more tangled roots from our soil. Positive discrimination towards muslim law could be seen as a kind of redressive measure, I suppose, as any future arguments against religious favouritism is also going to have to address Christianity's attachment to the state too.Yeah but you just said the government doesn't allow Christianity to make your laws. So the beliefs of others are not of concern to the society as long as it doesn't infringe on that society. I'm sure you aren't proposing limiting the freedom of people?Not sure I follow... could you clarify?[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Okay then that means you have no religious considerations for your law. Tax benefits are not allowing the church a say in your government. However, if you allow new laws based on the religious views of a group....then you are going backward. I don't think you have anything to fear from that happening with the Christian denominations in this day and age.LJS9502_basic
Not sure I follow... could you clarify?jimmyjammer69If your government has decided to keep religion out of politics then that issue is currently resolved vis a vis Christianity which has traditionally been the faith of the UK. However, you can't allow the fear of offending new groups entering the country to change that and start passing laws based on religion again. Which from what I've heard is a concern currently?
If your government has decided to keep religion out of politics then that issue is currently resolved vis a vis Christianity which has traditionally been the faith of the UK. However, you can't allow the fear of offending new groups entering the country to change that and start passing laws based on religion again. Which from what I've heard is a concern currently? Well since i've been sleeping this thread has taken a pleasant turn to discussing what appears to be the role religion plays in lawmaking and how that affects new immigrants with different religions entering the country, and should those new religions affect the laws of a country? Am i correct in this assumption?[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Not sure I follow... could you clarify?LJS9502_basic
If your government has decided to keep religion out of politics then that issue is currently resolved vis a vis Christianity which has traditionally been the faith of the UK. However, you can't allow the fear of offending new groups entering the country to change that and start passing laws based on religion again. Which from what I've heard is a concern currently?Sure, I'm not a believer in positive discrimination to correct problems of the past, and I agree Sharia law has no place in Britain, but at the same time we should take the opportunity to review English law Re. Christianity.[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Not sure I follow... could you clarify?LJS9502_basic
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]If your government has decided to keep religion out of politics then that issue is currently resolved vis a vis Christianity which has traditionally been the faith of the UK. However, you can't allow the fear of offending new groups entering the country to change that and start passing laws based on religion again. Which from what I've heard is a concern currently?Sure, I'm not a believer in positive discrimination to correct problems of the past, and I agree Sharia law has no place in Britain, but at the same time we should take the opportunity to review English law Re. Christianity. You are contradicting yourself then. You stated that Christian laws were overturned some time ago...I believe you mentioned blasphemy. It's not discrimination if you continue not allowing other religions to get a toe hold in your laws. You seem to now be saying that since at one time the UK had Christian laws you think it's fair to have Muslim laws now. That does not logically follow to me though......[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Not sure I follow... could you clarify?jimmyjammer69
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]If your government has decided to keep religion out of politics then that issue is currently resolved vis a vis Christianity which has traditionally been the faith of the UK. However, you can't allow the fear of offending new groups entering the country to change that and start passing laws based on religion again. Which from what I've heard is a concern currently? Well since i've been sleeping this thread has taken a pleasant turn to discussing what appears to be the role religion plays in lawmaking and how that affects new immigrants with different religions entering the country, and should those new religions affect the laws of a country? Am i correct in this assumption?I believe so. I think that is one of the reasons for the fear of immigration in the UK. Well that and the few who are pro white people I guess that posted earlier here.[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Not sure I follow... could you clarify?FrostyPhantasm
[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]If your government has decided to keep religion out of politics then that issue is currently resolved vis a vis Christianity which has traditionally been the faith of the UK. However, you can't allow the fear of offending new groups entering the country to change that and start passing laws based on religion again. Which from what I've heard is a concern currently?Sure, I'm not a believer in positive discrimination to correct problems of the past, and I agree Sharia law has no place in Britain, but at the same time we should take the opportunity to review English law Re. Christianity. You are contradicting yourself then. You stated that Christian laws were overturned some time ago...I believe you mentioned blasphemy. It's not discrimination if you continue not allowing other religions to get a toe hold in your laws. You seem to now be saying that since at one time the UK had Christian laws you think it's fair to have Muslim laws now. That does not logically follow to me though......No, I certainly didn't suggest Christian laws were all overturned. I said that it was only in 1949 that we even questioned Blasphemy laws and even gave some flowery roots metaphor to hammer home my point that Christianity's still deeply ingrained into our law. I also repeated several times in this thread and others that Sharia law has no place in Britain.LJS9502_basic
You are contradicting yourself then. You stated that Christian laws were overturned some time ago...I believe you mentioned blasphemy. It's not discrimination if you continue not allowing other religions to get a toe hold in your laws. You seem to now be saying that since at one time the UK had Christian laws you think it's fair to have Muslim laws now. That does not logically follow to me though......No, I certainly didn't suggest Christian laws were all overturned. I said that it was only in 1949 that we even questioned Blasphemy laws and even gave some flowery roots metaphor to hammer home my point that Christianity's still deeply ingrained into our law. I also repeated several times in this thread and others that Sharia law has no place in Britain.Well I did ask for some examples of these Christian laws and you mentioned tax breaks....which are not laws but you had also said other faiths get said tax breaks as well or did I read that wrong?[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Sure, I'm not a believer in positive discrimination to correct problems of the past, and I agree Sharia law has no place in Britain, but at the same time we should take the opportunity to review English law Re. Christianity.jimmyjammer69
You are contradicting yourself then. You stated that Christian laws were overturned some time ago...I believe you mentioned blasphemy. It's not discrimination if you continue not allowing other religions to get a toe hold in your laws. You seem to now be saying that since at one time the UK had Christian laws you think it's fair to have Muslim laws now. That does not logically follow to me though......No, I certainly didn't suggest Christian laws were all overturned. I said that it was only in 1949 that we even questioned Blasphemy laws and even gave some flowery roots metaphor to hammer home my point that Christianity's still deeply ingrained into our law. I also repeated several times in this thread and others that Sharia law has no place in Britain. Reminds me of these two cases that occurred in Canada in which people who were wearing religious headwear were asked to take them off or quit what they were doing, this happened to a young teen in a soccer game as seen here[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]Sure, I'm not a believer in positive discrimination to correct problems of the past, and I agree Sharia law has no place in Britain, but at the same time we should take the opportunity to review English law Re. Christianity.jimmyjammer69
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?k=77400&id=251ef17f-7295-45fc-b6fd-140437535de5#Comments.
However with that said, this mounty police officer protested that he should be able to wear his Sikh religious headgear instead of the ****c mounty hat, it had alot of resistance back in the day but they eventually passed it
http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/rights_freedoms/clips/3302/. I feel that this is about as far as Canada is ever willing to go to pass any law as regards to any of the religions, because of the fact that we are SO left wing, that if we were to cater to most of the religions it would require a huge shift to the right.
[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]No, I certainly didn't suggest Christian laws were all overturned. I said that it was only in 1949 that we even questioned Blasphemy laws and even gave some flowery roots metaphor to hammer home my point that Christianity's still deeply ingrained into our law. I also repeated several times in this thread and others that Sharia law has no place in Britain.Well I did ask for some examples of these Christian laws and you mentioned tax breaks....which are not laws but you had also said other faiths get said tax breaks as well or did I read that wrong?I said that I have no idea whether other churches get tax breaks, but I'm 100% sure that those privileges emerged through the dominance of the Christian church in Britain over centuries. It's those privileges which I've been arguing against for Christianity as well as any other religion.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You are contradicting yourself then. You stated that Christian laws were overturned some time ago...I believe you mentioned blasphemy. It's not discrimination if you continue not allowing other religions to get a toe hold in your laws. You seem to now be saying that since at one time the UK had Christian laws you think it's fair to have Muslim laws now. That does not logically follow to me though......LJS9502_basic
Oh wait, I've actually just seen that the Blasphemy laws were only officially repealed in 2008.
No, I certainly didn't suggest Christian laws were all overturned. I said that it was only in 1949 that we even questioned Blasphemy laws and even gave some flowery roots metaphor to hammer home my point that Christianity's still deeply ingrained into our law. I also repeated several times in this thread and others that Sharia law has no place in Britain. Reminds me of these two cases that occurred in Canada in which people who were wearing religious headwear were asked to take them off or quit what they were doing, this happened to a young teen in a soccer game as seen here[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"]
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You are contradicting yourself then. You stated that Christian laws were overturned some time ago...I believe you mentioned blasphemy. It's not discrimination if you continue not allowing other religions to get a toe hold in your laws. You seem to now be saying that since at one time the UK had Christian laws you think it's fair to have Muslim laws now. That does not logically follow to me though......FrostyPhantasm
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?k=77400&id=251ef17f-7295-45fc-b6fd-140437535de5#Comments.
However with that said, this mounty police officer protested that he should be able to wear his Sikh religious headgear instead of the ****c mounty hat, it had alot of resistance back in the day but they eventually passed it
http://archives.cbc.ca/politics/rights_freedoms/clips/3302/. I feel that this is about as far as Canada is ever willing to go to pass any law as regards to any of the religions, because of the fact that we are SO left wing, that if we were to cater to most of the religions it would require a huge shift to the right.
To be honest, I'm kind of on the fence about that point where religious and cultural standards meet. There's often a kind of knee-jerk reaction to different forms of dress and the like here in Britain - much moreso in tough times, when people are looking for a scapegoat. Immigrants have to tread a ridiculously fine line when they come to the UK, not to offend anyone, otherwise it ends up splashed all over the papers. Personally, if I was going to another country, I'd probably let my culture's traditions and customs slide to avoid causing offence. Still, the press should also be a bit more sensitive in their handling of these kinds of issues.[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="MushroomWig"] Well they've said time and again that people can stay if they're willing to accept that the British people will come first "British jobs for British people".MushroomWigIf they've lived there all their lives, they are British people... How can they be British if they or their families were not born here?
So....by your logic, I'm not an American because my mother was not born there (but I was)? That dog won't hunt, seymour.
If you are born and live in a country all your life, you are (insert whatever word you'd like to use for a citizen of such country. American, British, Canadian).
Always has been? I don't think so, multi-cultural Britiain has been around for less than 50 years, before that it was extremely rare to see a non-British person living in the UK. My entire family were born in the UK, it's a shame that this country is being sold out to the rest of the world, we USED to be Great..but no longer.MushroomWig
Why do you think Britain is such a multi-cultural nation? HINT- It starts with an I;).
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