Burka ban

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

To me this outrage is quite absurd.. This isn't the first cultural practice that has been banned before in France, or for the West for that matter. And there is a actual legitimate concern with the veil.

sSubZerOo

I'm not certain what outrage has to do with my post, but I digress. The reasons cited for the law was described by French Lawmakers as 'cultural preservation', and not public safety. The latter seems to be a bit of a red herring formulated by apologists.

Well I agree than, thats absurd that it was done for that reason.. But from what I heard it was for security reasons above anythign else.. But I may be wrong.

"Mr. Sarkozy himself has said, "The burqa is not welcome in France because it is contrary to our values and contrary to the ideals we have of a woman's dignity."

Government officials say the bill is an effort to discourage fundamentalist Islam from taking root in France.

After the vote, Justice Minister Michèle Alliot-Marie said it was a victory for democracy and for French values, which she described this way: "Values of freedom against all the oppressions that try to humiliate individuals; values of equality between men and women, against those who push for inequality and injustice."

Opinion polls show that French voters overwhelmingly support the ban on facial veils. A Pew Research Center poll done in April and May found that more than 80 percent of French voters supported a ban, as well as more than 70 percent of German voters and 62 percent of British voters."

Link

Sounds like populist pandering to me.

I believe anything that covers a persons face in public should be banned...

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"]

I think it's bad cause banning stuff that's what communists do

toast_burner

Despite what you may hear, Ignorance is NOT bliss.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="BlindBluMonstah"] And where they causing trouble by speaking arabic and wearing burkas ?Sagem28

Call it horrid if you will, but it makes me feel like a stranger in my own country.

I have mixed feelings about the veil ban. Certainly they should be required to be removed while taking photographs for photo ID's (driver licenses, etc). I also think they should not be allowed to be worn in other specific areas (banks come to mind) for basic public safety. Just strolling down the street, that I'm not to sure about.

On the general topic of Islam and current events, stories like THIS concern me MUCH MORE than someone's right, or lack there of, to weark a ninja mask in public.

[QUOTE="Sagem28"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] you know, I didn't want to respond to that horrid post but since you did I will too. I hate the Burka and would never let my wife or daughters wear it, but what in the world are you talking?worlock77

Call it horrid if you will, but it makes me feel like a stranger in my own country.

Europe done wonders for the world tho

According to everyone banning it, it is a symbol of oppression of women.
I don't know whether that is true.
They don't know a better way to fight the oppression of women among that subculture. They can't rely on the women reporting and they can't just spy on everyone... though we're getting there.

I'm very divided. I believe it is wrong to ban almost anything. It is wrong to ban clothing. But if it really helps...
I don't know.

I have mixed feelings about the veil ban. Certainly they should be required to be removed while taking photographs for photo ID's (driver licenses, etc). I also think they should not be allowed to be worn in other specific areas (banks come to mind) for basic public safety. Just strolling down the street, that I'm not to sure about.

On the general topic of Islam and current events, stories like THIS concern me MUCH MORE than someone's right, or lack there of, to weark a ninja mask in public.

YellowOneKinobi

Daily mail...

[QUOTE="Sagem28"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] you know, I didn't want to respond to that horrid post but since you did I will too. I hate the Burka and would never let my wife or daughters wear it, but what in the world are you talking?worlock77

Call it horrid if you will, but it makes me feel like a stranger in my own country.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I'm not certain what outrage has to do with my post, but I digress. The reasons cited for the law was described by French Lawmakers as 'cultural preservation', and not public safety. The latter seems to be a bit of a red herring formulated by apologists.

coolbeans90

Well I agree than, thats absurd that it was done for that reason.. But from what I heard it was for security reasons above anythign else.. But I may be wrong.

"Mr. Sarkozy himself has said, "The burqa is not welcome in France because it is contrary to our values and contrary to the ideals we have of a woman's dignity."

Government officials say the bill is an effort to discourage fundamentalist Islam from taking root in France.

After the vote, Justice Minister Michèle Alliot-Marie said it was a victory for democracy and for French values, which she described this way: "Values of freedom against all the oppressions that try to humiliate individuals; values of equality between men and women, against those who push for inequality and injustice."

Opinion polls show that French voters overwhelmingly support the ban on facial veils. A Pew Research Center poll done in April and May found that more than 80 percent of French voters supported a ban, as well as more than 70 percent of German voters and 62 percent of British voters."

Link

Sounds like populist pandering to me.

This is pretty much it.

"Passions have been so high that when domestic intelligence issued a report saying that only 367 women in France wore a full veil, it seemed to make no difference."

This is a political ploy to pick up votes.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

I have mixed feelings about the veil ban. Certainly they should be required to be removed while taking photographs for photo ID's (driver licenses, etc). I also think they should not be allowed to be worn in other specific areas (banks come to mind) for basic public safety. Just strolling down the street, that I'm not to sure about.

On the general topic of Islam and current events, stories like THIS concern me MUCH MORE than someone's right, or lack there of, to weark a ninja mask in public.

Former_Slacker

Daily mail...

[QUOTE="Former_Slacker"]

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

I have mixed feelings about the veil ban. Certainly they should be required to be removed while taking photographs for photo ID's (driver licenses, etc). I also think they should not be allowed to be worn in other specific areas (banks come to mind) for basic public safety. Just strolling down the street, that I'm not to sure about.

On the general topic of Islam and current events, stories like THIS concern me MUCH MORE than someone's right, or lack there of, to weark a ninja mask in public.

YellowOneKinobi

Daily mail...

How is a woman being whipped in Indonesia, although it is horrible, in anyway relevant to our discussion? The mail is just fear mongering again.

As long as there is a valid reason for banning it, then I am all for it. I don't believe that just because something has religious significance to some that it should be above the law.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="Former_Slacker"]

Daily mail...

Former_Slacker

How is a woman being whipped in Indonesia, although it is horrible, in anyway relevant to our discussion? The mail is just fear mongering again.

[QUOTE="Sagem28"]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a multicultural society...but this "Islamisation" of Europe is seriously getting out of hand. I went shopping in one of the biggest malls in Brussels two days ago and I saw +- 100 Burkas and I heard more Arabic than anything else.

BlindBluMonstah

[QUOTE="Former_Slacker"]

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] I'm at the office, so unfortunately I can't watch that right now, but I'm guessing you're saying that the Daily Mail isn't reliable. May be the case (I find them to really sensationalize things). But it's not like the story I cited is in any way an isolated incident.

YellowOneKinobi

How is a woman being whipped in Indonesia, although it is horrible, in anyway relevant to our discussion? The mail is just fear mongering again.

So you're saying that the two groups are composed of the same people?

[QUOTE="BlindBluMonstah"][QUOTE="Sagem28"]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a multicultural society...but this "Islamisation" of Europe is seriously getting out of hand. I went shopping in one of the biggest malls in Brussels two days ago and I saw +- 100 Burkas and I heard more Arabic than anything else.

-Unreal-

He meant were not where.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="Former_Slacker"]

How is a woman being whipped in Indonesia, although it is horrible, in anyway relevant to our discussion? The mail is just fear mongering again.

Former_Slacker

So you're saying that the two groups are composed of the same people?

I think there's a certain common courtesy and moral value to this discussion too. You don't wear a balaclava into a bank, do you?

Communism is an ecomnic system, not a social law system.

No, I wouldn't want them banned, that would go against freedom of speech/religion.

I think they should ban it here in the UK too. If you don't like the rules then don't live there.

In Western culture we like to see the faces of other people we are interacting with, and covering your entire face could be considered anti-social. A minority should fit in with the country it's living in, not the other way around. The Burka is not essential to the Muslim faith and there are other head-dresses that serve the same religious purposes while still allowing the face to be visible.

So yes, I support the ban.

DeepSigh

[QUOTE="DeepSigh"]

In Western culture we like to see the faces of other people we are interacting with, and covering your entire face could be considered anti-social. A minority should fit in with the country it's living in, not the other way around. The Burka is not essential to the Muslim faith and there are other head-dresses that serve the same religious purposes while still allowing the face to be visible.

So yes, I support the ban.

Fuhgeddabouditt

I don't see why, he didn't say anything ridiculous or extravagant. If we go to the middle east we abide by their rules and culture, why is it so much to ask the same of them?

[QUOTE="DeepSigh"]

In Western culture we like to see the faces of other people we are interacting with, and covering your entire face could be considered anti-social. A minority should fit in with the country it's living in, not the other way around. The Burka is not essential to the Muslim faith and there are other head-dresses that serve the same religious purposes while still allowing the face to be visible.

So yes, I support the ban.

Fuhgeddabouditt

[QUOTE="DeepSigh"]

In Western culture we like to see the faces of other people we are interacting with, and covering your entire face could be considered anti-social. A minority should fit in with the country it's living in, not the other way around. The Burka is not essential to the Muslim faith and there are other head-dresses that serve the same religious purposes while still allowing the face to be visible.

So yes, I support the ban.

Fuhgeddabouditt

Not for a second would any Muslim country that allows strict Sharia Laws, tollerate any non-muslim religious customs. Yet they are all up in arms when France does the same thing.

[QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"][QUOTE="DeepSigh"]

In Western culture we like to see the faces of other people we are interacting with, and covering your entire face could be considered anti-social. A minority should fit in with the country it's living in, not the other way around. The Burka is not essential to the Muslim faith and there are other head-dresses that serve the same religious purposes while still allowing the face to be visible.

So yes, I support the ban.

Espada12

I don't see why, he didn't say anything ridiculous or extravagant. If we go to the middle east we abide by their rules and culture, why is it so much to ask the same of them?

im not okay with anything just pointing out one of the reason why people over there continue to hate. Fuhgeddabouditt

Not for a second would any Muslim country that allows strict Sharia Laws, tollerate any non-muslim religious customs. Yet they are all up in arms when France does the same thing.

Darthmatt

of course i wanna see what im getting into cause you know they could have pretty eyes and stuff but when i take off those curtain i have a tragedy

:P

Why don't you just ban Bra's? You have no idea what they're hiding down there. Seriously, Your free to wear whatever you want. I expect this ban to get reversed within two weeks.OmegaAxl

Why don't you just ban Bra's? You have no idea what they're hiding down there. Seriously, Your free to wear whatever you want. I expect this ban to get reversed within two weeks.OmegaAxl

If I can't wear a balaclava whilst browsing a shop then neither should people wearing burka's.