Burka ban

I would in airports and other public international travel zones. Otherwise I think its racist to ban them

LaytonsCat

I think we should ban clothes in general at airports and on planes... Just to be safe...

[QUOTE="LaytonsCat"]

I would in airports and other public international travel zones. Otherwise I think its racist to ban them

I think we should ban clothes in general at airports and on planes... Just to be safe...

I'm all for the ban, both for security reasons for for cultural reasons.

If foreign Muslims wish to emigrate here, they should accept our customs and culture and actually try to assimilate into the community. If they want to live their lives in the way they did in their homeland, they should go back there. Walking around completely obscured isn't appropriate here, and nor should it be. Even less so when walking into a shop or bank.

I wouldn't go to a Muslim country wearing shorts and a t-shirt, making out with my scantly clad girlfriend - that would probably land us in jail. Accept and adhere to the customs and culture of the country you wish to live in - it's a matter of respect.

[QUOTE="poptart"]

[QUOTE="LaytonsCat"]

I would in airports and other public international travel zones. Otherwise I think its racist to ban them

chris_yz80

I think we should ban clothes in general at airports and on planes... Just to be safe...

Indeed.... that was really my point :P

[QUOTE="chris_yz80"][QUOTE="poptart"]

I think we should ban clothes in general at airports and on planes... Just to be safe...

Indeed.... that was really my point :P

Perhaps as a non-European I cannot understand the new xenophobia against Muslims that sprung up in recent years in Europe. I'd like to think, even if I was European, I'd welcome the diversity that Muslims have brought. I certainly see no need to spit on important cultural values, including ones derived from religious belief. I'm not sure how anyone can believe the revisionist "security" reasons, because this is clearly a case of cultural discrimination due to to xenophobia.

I do believe in certain cases like when you take a photo of your driver's license or when walking into a bank it should be banned. But if someone wants to wear a burka and walk down the street then they are free to do so because I believe in freedom and liberty. Anyways, in Islam wearing the Burka is not a requirement.

I believe anything that covers the entire face should be banned in public places.Lonelynight

Does that mean I can not wear a Dart Vader suit in a public place? ;)

I believe anything that covers a persons face in public should be banned...

joesh89

That would make Halloween impossible to happen. ;)

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Well I agree than, thats absurd that it was done for that reason.. But from what I heard it was for security reasons above anythign else.. But I may be wrong.

coolbeans90

"Mr. Sarkozy himself has said, "The burqa is not welcome in France because it is contrary to our values and contrary to the ideals we have of a woman's dignity."

Government officials say the bill is an effort to discourage fundamentalist Islam from taking root in France.

After the vote, Justice Minister Michèle Alliot-Marie said it was a victory for democracy and for French values, which she described this way: "Values of freedom against all the oppressions that try to humiliate individuals; values of equality between men and women, against those who push for inequality and injustice."

Opinion polls show that French voters overwhelmingly support the ban on facial veils. A Pew Research Center poll done in April and May found that more than 80 percent of French voters supported a ban, as well as more than 70 percent of German voters and 62 percent of British voters."

Link

Sounds like populist pandering to me.

I think this post is still relevant to certain points that some users are still making in this thread.

Yeah it is, either way the public agrees with it, so it should remain so. As I said, you can't pick and choose when to be a democracy.

I believe the burka is a symbol of female oppression.

jus2nyce

What if the female wants to wear out of her free will? Wether you consider what is appropriate or not appropriate for a female to wear is beside the point.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

"Mr. Sarkozy himself has said, "The burqa is not welcome in France because it is contrary to our values and contrary to the ideals we have of a woman's dignity."

Government officials say the bill is an effort to discourage fundamentalist Islam from taking root in France.

After the vote, Justice Minister Michèle Alliot-Marie said it was a victory for democracy and for French values, which she described this way: "Values of freedom against all the oppressions that try to humiliate individuals; values of equality between men and women, against those who push for inequality and injustice."

Opinion polls show that French voters overwhelmingly support the ban on facial veils. A Pew Research Center poll done in April and May found that more than 80 percent of French voters supported a ban, as well as more than 70 percent of German voters and 62 percent of British voters."

Link

Sounds like populist pandering to me.

Espada12

I think this post is still relevant to certain points that some users are still making in this thread.

Yeah it is, either way the public agrees with it, so it should remain so. As I said, you can't pick and choose when to be a democracy.

I don't recall making a statement to the contrary. :? Criticizing the policy here, not the method by which it was enacted.

Edit: And I'm not sure about France, but there are limits to "democracy" in the U.S.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

"Mr. Sarkozy himself has said, "The burqa is not welcome in France because it is contrary to our values and contrary to the ideals we have of a woman's dignity."

Government officials say the bill is an effort to discourage fundamentalist Islam from taking root in France.

After the vote, Justice Minister Michèle Alliot-Marie said it was a victory for democracy and for French values, which she described this way: "Values of freedom against all the oppressions that try to humiliate individuals; values of equality between men and women, against those who push for inequality and injustice."

Opinion polls show that French voters overwhelmingly support the ban on facial veils. A Pew Research Center poll done in April and May found that more than 80 percent of French voters supported a ban, as well as more than 70 percent of German voters and 62 percent of British voters."

Link

Sounds like populist pandering to me.

I think this post is still relevant to certain points that some users are still making in this thread.

Yeah it is, either way the public agrees with it, so it should remain so. As I said, you can't pick and choose when to be a democracy.

I don't recall making a statement to the contrary. :? Criticizing the policy here, not the method by which it was enacted.

Edit: And I'm not sure about France, but there are limits to "democracy" in the U.S.

coolbeans90

I wasn't referring to you, I was talking about in general. If you pick when to be a democracy then is isn't a democracy, of course the constitution must be upheld, however burkas have nothing to do with that.

What public? The public that actually wears the burka and follow the culture. Or the public who gives a second hand opinion and only cares about their own views?MgamerBD

I'm not sure I follow you here, are you simply stating we should only let those who are against the ban to vote on it? I was referring to the public as a whole.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

I don't recall making a statement to the contrary. :? Criticizing the policy here, not the method by which it was enacted.

Edit: And I'm not sure about France, but there are limits to "democracy" in the U.S.

Espada12

I wasn't referring to you, I was talking about in general. If you pick when to be a democracy then is isn't a democracy.

When did this become an issue? This reply literally could be said in response to any opposition to any piece of legislation in western "democracies" in the context you used it.

Is it true that women can take photos for passports, IDs, driver licenses wearing a burka? That's pretty ridiculous and wide open for abuse. You can't identify a woman from a picture of her wearing a burka.F1_2004

I'd hope not, but even if they don't, they're not required in most countries to remove it - so what's the point of a license showing a random person that might not even be the woman under the burqa?

How can you ban clothing? This is just stupid.

two months ago I would have been outraged tbh, but now...now I cant help but see the burka as simply stupid. Still, if people want to wear one, they should be allowed to. But as far as the ban goes, meh...let it be banned.

i feel people should have the right to wear whatever they like.

BlindBluMonstah

Including nothing?

:P

[QUOTE="F1_2004"]Is it true that women can take photos for passports, IDs, driver licenses wearing a burka? That's pretty ridiculous and wide open for abuse. You can't identify a woman from a picture of her wearing a burka.raynimrod

I'd hope not, but even if they don't, they're not required in most countries to remove it - so what's the point of a license showing a random person that might not even be the woman under the burqa?

Not sure if I am correct here, but the picture the TC posted looks like a niqab, not a burka.

I'm all for the ban, both for security reasons for for cultural reasons.

If foreign Muslims wish to emigrate here, they should accept our customs and culture and actually try to assimilate into the community. If they want to live their lives in the way they did in their homeland, they should go back there. Walking around completely obscured isn't appropriate here, and nor should it be. Even less so when walking into a shop or bank.

I wouldn't go to a Muslim country wearing shorts and a t-shirt, making out with my scantly clad girlfriend - that would probably land us in jail. Accept and adhere to the customs and culture of the country you wish to live in - it's a matter of respect.

raynimrod

Not sure if I am correct here, but the picture the TC posted looks like a niqab, not a burka.

Is it true that women can take photos for passports, IDs, driver licenses wearing a burka? That's pretty ridiculous and wide open for abuse. You can't identify a woman from a picture of her wearing a burka.F1_2004

Its like banning people from carrying knives around with them. You can argue there is nothing wrong with carrying it around aslong as you dont use it to harm someone. Nothing is wrong with hiding your face aslong as nothing comes of it. However all it could take is someone to wear a burka drop a bomb somewhere and run off and you will have next to no real leads that the public can help on to identify the person. I think it should be banned purely down to it covers the face. If you want to wear it at home then thats fine but in public/work/ etc you should should your face.

If you really do dislike it then go somewhere where they dont mind people not showing there face.

I really cant see the argument against it aside from the pointt above.

So am I allowed to walk around naked in France? If not, why should they be allowed to walk around all covered up? Why is one extreme okay and the other is not?

i think banning it outright was a bit harsh

but there are certain circumstances where IMO its just common sense not to wear one, driving for example or teachers of young children, i wouldnt want my child getting taught by someone who covered their face and i wouldnt be impressed if someone worked on a till or in customer services etc and tried serving me, you cant underestimate the power of facial expression and body language

as for its their right or it opresses women etc etc im not really interested in that angle

[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="Sagem28"]

Call it horrid if you will, but it makes me feel like a stranger in my own country.

mywalletsgone

Europe done wonders for the world tho

Personally I think the Burka fans are being hypocritical. If a western woman moved to a country with fundamentalist islamic laws, people would not only demand she be covered (maybe not in a burka), but they would probably take actions againts the woman if she refused. Its just one big arogant, male dominated culture that needs to grow up a little and join the 21st century.

Personally I think the Burka fans are being hypocritical. If a western woman moved to a country with fundamentalist islamic laws, people would not only demand she be covered (maybe not in a burka), but they would probably take actions againts the woman if she refused. Its just one big arogant, male dominated culture that needs to grow up a little and join the 21st century.

Darthmatt

Personally I think the Burka fans are being hypocritical. If a western woman moved to a country with fundamentalist islamic laws, people would not only demand she be covered (maybe not in a burka), but they would probably take actions againts the woman if she refused. Its just one big arogant, male dominated culture that needs to grow up a little and join the 21st century.

Darthmatt

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]

Personally I think the Burka fans are being hypocritical. If a western woman moved to a country with fundamentalist islamic laws, people would not only demand she be covered (maybe not in a burka), but they would probably take actions againts the woman if she refused. Its just one big arogant, male dominated culture that needs to grow up a little and join the 21st century.

MgamerBD

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]

Personally I think the Burka fans are being hypocritical. If a western woman moved to a country with fundamentalist islamic laws, people would not only demand she be covered (maybe not in a burka), but they would probably take actions againts the woman if she refused. Its just one big arogant, male dominated culture that needs to grow up a little and join the 21st century.

MgamerBD

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"][QUOTE="Darthmatt"]

Personally I think the Burka fans are being hypocritical. If a western woman moved to a country with fundamentalist islamic laws, people would not only demand she be covered (maybe not in a burka), but they would probably take actions againts the woman if she refused. Its just one big arogant, male dominated culture that needs to grow up a little and join the 21st century.

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"][QUOTE="Darthmatt"]

Personally I think the Burka fans are being hypocritical. If a western woman moved to a country with fundamentalist islamic laws, people would not only demand she be covered (maybe not in a burka), but they would probably take actions againts the woman if she refused. Its just one big arogant, male dominated culture that needs to grow up a little and join the 21st century.

Darthmatt

[QUOTE="Darthmatt"]

[QUOTE="MgamerBD"] I don't understand you people...in this world people will follow their own culture, they will do whatever they want no matter what. Our job is to show them the way not stoop down to their level. Our job is to adapt and adjust to them not try to impose our will and complain. They are gonna change in due time. People are so impatient...in this world we must respect other people's views, we must be the better people. That is what it means to be a modern day country, that is what it means to be human.worlock77

[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="Darthmatt"]First of all, I do not believe in religion, and I have no interest in archaic traditions that serve no purpose other than to subjugate others by limit their human potential. My point was, the people who are demanding the right to allow their woman to wear the Burka in France, would not accept the same type of behavior of a Western woman who wanted to wear revealing cloths in their home country. People should learn to adapt to the culture they move to, or they should go home.

Darthmatt

Personally I think the Burka fans are being hypocritical. If a western woman moved to a country with fundamentalist islamic laws, people would not only demand she be covered (maybe not in a burka), but they would probably take actions againts the woman if she refused. Its just one big arogant, male dominated culture that needs to grow up a little and join the 21st century.

Darthmatt

In most european countries it is illegal to go into public places with your face fully covered. Therefore it was the muslim women who were granted a privilege above regular citizens, which is wrong.

It's a very tricky issue to me. On one hand, once again we have a powerful westernized government telling another non-western group of people what they can't do. I don't support that at all, especially if it's a part of religion. However, the burka is seen as oppressive to women by many so banning something that is oppressive is something I can get behind. However, I don't know any Islamic women that wear burkas so I can't accurately form an opinion on if this is a bad thing or something that the women are fine with.