Burka ban

I can't believe people still oppose to this, don't like the country then don't live there.

I can't believe people still oppose to this, don't like the country then don't live there.

CBR600-RR

If they relocated their family there, work there, and contribute to the economy then its just as much their home as anyone else...

Why do they have to leave to honor their religion? I thought this was the 21st century, people shouldn't have to leave their country to practice their religion or culture anymore.

I can't believe people still oppose to this, don't like the country then don't live there.

CBR600-RR

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

I can't believe people still oppose to this, don't like the country then don't live there.

theycallmeRP

If they relocated their family there, work there, and contribute to the economy then its just as much their home as anyone else...

Why do they have to leave to honor their religion? I thought this was the 21st century, people shouldn't have to leave their country to practice their religion or culture anymore.

Based on the little bit I know, my opinions are:

- The outright ban in ALL areas might be going a bit far

- Banning face coverings for taking photographs for ID's, in airports/public transit hubs or in banks is completely logical

[QUOTE="theycallmeRP"]

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

I can't believe people still oppose to this, don't like the country then don't live there.

YellowOneKinobi

If they relocated their family there, work there, and contribute to the economy then its just as much their home as anyone else...

Why do they have to leave to honor their religion? I thought this was the 21st century, people shouldn't have to leave their country to practice their religion or culture anymore.

Based on the little bit I know, my opinions are:

- The outright ban in ALL areas might be going a bit far

- Banning face coverings for taking photographs for ID's, in airports/public transit hubs or in banks is completely logical

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

I can't believe people still oppose to this, don't like the country then don't live there.

theycallmeRP

If they relocated their family there, work there, and contribute to the economy then its just as much their home as anyone else...

Why do they have to leave to honor their religion? I thought this was the 21st century, people shouldn't have to leave their country to practice their religion or culture anymore.

Why should they? Here in England we're basically turning into a muslim country, mosques are being built everywhere and I see more muslims than English people. If they enforced the ban here then there would be less muslims trying to come here.

[QUOTE="theycallmeRP"]

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

I can't believe people still oppose to this, don't like the country then don't live there.

CBR600-RR

If they relocated their family there, work there, and contribute to the economy then its just as much their home as anyone else...

Why do they have to leave to honor their religion? I thought this was the 21st century, people shouldn't have to leave their country to practice their religion or culture anymore.

Why should they? Here in England we're basically turning into a muslim country, mosques are being built everywhere and I see more muslims than English people. If they enforced the ban here then there would be less muslims trying to come here.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="theycallmeRP"]

worlock77

Again, I haven't read the actual law, so I'll take your word for it for now that it is burka specific (although, from what I understand the face covering isn't a 'requirement' of islam..... but again, not sure).

I think though, that there is a legitimate concern for public safety. I don't even mean simply an 'evil doer' hiding bombs under the burka. I'm just thinking that pretty much any criminal that is wanted can just clad themself in a burka and go about their business. Maybe that happens already, as it doesn't seem all that far fetched.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on being required to remove the face covering in places like banks, airport security areas, etc.

[QUOTE="theycallmeRP"]

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

I can't believe people still oppose to this, don't like the country then don't live there.

YellowOneKinobi

If they relocated their family there, work there, and contribute to the economy then its just as much their home as anyone else...

Why do they have to leave to honor their religion? I thought this was the 21st century, people shouldn't have to leave their country to practice their religion or culture anymore.

Based on the little bit I know, my opinions are:

- The outright ban in ALL areas might be going a bit far

- Banning face coverings for taking photographs for ID's, in airports/public transit hubs or in banks is completely logical

I am not Muslim but there is actual scripture in the Quran that discusses this. I know it varies by region how much they follow these verses, but the fact is some Islamic people take this very seriously and consider it part of their religion and culture. They might not explicitly said that they are preventing a religious practice, but it doesn't change the fact that outlawing it is doing exactly that. Here are a few scriptures on it.

"O you Children of Adam! We have bestowed on you raiment to cover your shame as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition." (Quran 7:26)

"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss." (Quran 24:31).

"O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful." (Quran 33:59)

This is why it is a problem. These women now have to go against a teaching that they have been taught all of their lives in order to follow the laws of their home. Your solution of not allowing it in certain areas is much more feasible than outlawing it completely but that wasn't done. They skipped that and we have an outright ban now. I think there is a little too much distrust and susipsion of Islamic people. It's getting out of hand now.

Well England wanted to spread its influence all across the globe. Don't you think it was inevitable that some of those people would start to head to England themselves?worlock77

The government wanted to do that, not the people. We wouldn't mind our fair share of cultures here, but not the Islamization of England.

[QUOTE="theycallmeRP"]

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

I can't believe people still oppose to this, don't like the country then don't live there.

CBR600-RR

If they relocated their family there, work there, and contribute to the economy then its just as much their home as anyone else...

Why do they have to leave to honor their religion? I thought this was the 21st century, people shouldn't have to leave their country to practice their religion or culture anymore.

Why should they? Here in England we're basically turning into a muslim country, mosques are being built everywhere and I see more muslims than English people. If they enforced the ban here then there would be less muslims trying to come here.

So because they built their places of worship just like everyone else, they need to slow down Islamic people that want to go to England? It seems like you have a problem with Muslim people...

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="theycallmeRP"]

If they relocated their family there, work there, and contribute to the economy then its just as much their home as anyone else...

Why do they have to leave to honor their religion? I thought this was the 21st century, people shouldn't have to leave their country to practice their religion or culture anymore.

theycallmeRP

Based on the little bit I know, my opinions are:

- The outright ban in ALL areas might be going a bit far

- Banning face coverings for taking photographs for ID's, in airports/public transit hubs or in banks is completely logical

I am not Muslim but there is actual scripture in the Quran that discusses this. I know it varies by region how much they follow these verses, but the fact is some Islamic people take this very seriously and consider it part of their religion and culture. They might not explicitly said that they are preventing a religious practice, but it doesn't change the fact that outlawing it is doing exactly that. Here are a few scriptures on it.

"O you Children of Adam! We have bestowed on you raiment to cover your shame as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition." (Quran 7:26)

"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss." (Quran 24:31).

"O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful." (Quran 33:59)

This is why it is a problem. These women now have to go against a teaching that they have been taught all of their lives in order to follow the laws of their home. Your solution of not allowing it in certain areas is much more feasible than outlawing it completely but that wasn't done. They skipped that and we have an outright ban now. I think there is a little too much distrust and susipsion of Islamic people. It's getting out of hand now.

[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

YellowOneKinobi

Again, I haven't read the actual law, so I'll take your word for it for now that it is burka specific (although, from what I understand the face covering isn't a 'requirement' of islam..... but again, not sure).

I think though, that there is a legitimate concern for public safety. I don't even mean simply an 'evil doer' hiding bombs under the burka. I'm just thinking that pretty much any criminal that is wanted can just clad themself in a burka and go about their business. Maybe that happens already, as it doesn't seem all that far fetched.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on being required to remove the face covering in places like banks, airport security areas, etc.

[QUOTE="theycallmeRP"]

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"] I'm still a little undecided on the ban (as I have to research the actual law a little bit more). However, to the religious aspect, it's not like they are saying that people can not be muslim or follow islamic practices. I think of it more along the lines of a public safety issue. I don't find it THAT rediculous for people should be identifiable while conducting business in public areas.

Based on the little bit I know, my opinions are:

- The outright ban in ALL areas might be going a bit far

- Banning face coverings for taking photographs for ID's, in airports/public transit hubs or in banks is completely logical

YellowOneKinobi

Well I can't really debate about other people and their interpretations. If the burka is what they got out of the scriptures, then it is what is. There's so many sects in the major religions. I just think their being singled out a bit. A ban in certain areas is more feasible and more culturlelly tolerant than what the government did.

So because they built their places of worship just like everyone else, they need to slow down Islamic people that want to go to England? It seems like you have a problem with Muslim people...

theycallmeRP

I don't have a problem. There just seems to be more of them than us English, there's three mosques within three miles of each other in my town.. it's getting beyond ridiculous. They come here to live off benefits and get a free house, many don't come for a career. The majority are Muslims, but it's also other people from other backgrounds just coming here for an easy life when we should be sorting our own people out first.

Can someone explane to me the security issue? Since u gonna rob a bank anyway, breaking the face covering law is not such a big deal anymore, so u gonna cover your face anyway.

Can someone explane to me the security issue? Since u gonna rob a bank anyway, breaking the face covering law is not such a big deal anymore, so u gonna cover your face anyway.

charlesdarwin55

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"]

Can someone explane to me the security issue? Since u gonna rob a bank anyway, breaking the face covering law is not such a big deal anymore, so u gonna cover your face anyway.

worlock77

[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"]

Can someone explane to me the security issue? Since u gonna rob a bank anyway, breaking the face covering law is not such a big deal anymore, so u gonna cover your face anyway.

YellowOneKinobi

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"] worlock77

Anyway, I'm sort of thinking that if someone is asked to remove the face covering at any point, then the whole thing goes out the window. Kind of like breaking a seal? I don't know enough about the religion though.

While the security issue is a legitimate concern, this ban probably has more to do with the "Islamization" of many European nations. Honestly, I can't blame them for wanting to combat the massive influence the large numbers of Islamic immigrants are having on their culture. Each nation has a set of values that they identify with and represent their nation as a whole, and when an outside force begins corrupting these principles, it is tends to raise fear in the general public. Hell, in Canada we have a fear of being taken over by American culture, and Americans are almost identical to us compared to the difference between Europe and Islamic culture.

[QUOTE="theycallmeRP"]

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

I can't believe people still oppose to this, don't like the country then don't live there.

CBR600-RR

If they relocated their family there, work there, and contribute to the economy then its just as much their home as anyone else...

Why do they have to leave to honor their religion? I thought this was the 21st century, people shouldn't have to leave their country to practice their religion or culture anymore.

Why should they? Here in England we're basically turning into a muslim country, mosques are being built everywhere and I see more muslims than English people. If they enforced the ban here then there would be less muslims trying to come here.

[QUOTE="theycallmeRP"]

So because they built their places of worship just like everyone else, they need to slow down Islamic people that want to go to England? It seems like you have a problem with Muslim people...

CBR600-RR

I don't have a problem. There just seems to be more of them than us English, there's three mosques within three miles of each other in my town.. it's getting beyond ridiculous. They come here to live off benefits and get a free house, many don't come for a career. The majority are Muslims, but it's also other people from other backgrounds just coming here for an easy life when we should be sorting our own people out first.

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

[QUOTE="theycallmeRP"]

tenaka2

I don't have a problem. There just seems to be more of them than us English, there's three mosques within three miles of each other in my town.. it's getting beyond ridiculous. They come here to live off benefits and get a free house, many don't come for a career. The majority are Muslims, but it's also other people from other backgrounds just coming here for an easy life when we should be sorting our own people out first.

From article:

Hundreds of GTA Muslim men in polygamous marriages -- some with a harem of wives -- are receiving welfare and social benefits for each of their spouses, thanks to the city and province, Muslim leaders say.

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

[QUOTE="theycallmeRP"]

So because they built their places of worship just like everyone else, they need to slow down Islamic people that want to go to England? It seems like you have a problem with Muslim people...

tenaka2

I don't have a problem. There just seems to be more of them than us English, there's three mosques within three miles of each other in my town.. it's getting beyond ridiculous. They come here to live off benefits and get a free house, many don't come for a career. The majority are Muslims, but it's also other people from other backgrounds just coming here for an easy life when we should be sorting our own people out first.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"] The Muslem population in England and Wales is 3%, 0.84% in Scotland, your right its over run...6matt6

If you went to China town, where there is one in most major cities, you would think you are in China, but that still doesn't mean you are being over run. I think a diverse culture can mean good things, China town rules, they have all sorts of imported stuff.

In terms of receiving benefits it will be a very small minority, just like the minority of British born people are on benefits. Most foreigners will come over for a better life, which means they have to work.

I live in the UK, this comment is completely untrue, sounds like a BMP propaganda pamphlet.tenaka2

I said England, where abouts in the UK do you live? It is true. To call me BNP is offensive because the BNP are scum.
I am fair with different people of different ethnic origins residing in our country.. but for a huge load of them to come here for benefits is disgusting.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

I live in the UK, this comment is completely untrue, sounds like a BMP propaganda pamphlet.CBR600-RR

I said England, where abouts in the UK do you live? It is true. To call me BNP is offensive because the BNP are scum.
I am fair with different people of different ethnic origins residing in our country.. but for a huge load of them to come here for benefits is disgusting.

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

I live in the UK, this comment is completely untrue, sounds like a BMP propaganda pamphlet.CBR600-RR

I said England, where abouts in the UK do you live? It is true. To call me BNP is offensive because the BNP are scum.
I am fair with different people of different ethnic origins residing in our country.. but for a huge load of them to come here for benefits is disgusting.

I never called you BNP, I said your post read like a bnp pamphlet. I am in Manchester but I have lived near birmingham, a few places in essex and all around london. The % of the english population that are muslem is 3.

[QUOTE="CBR600-RR"]

[QUOTE="theycallmeRP"]

So because they built their places of worship just like everyone else, they need to slow down Islamic people that want to go to England? It seems like you have a problem with Muslim people...

tenaka2

I don't have a problem. There just seems to be more of them than us English, there's three mosques within three miles of each other in my town.. it's getting beyond ridiculous. They come here to live off benefits and get a free house, many don't come for a career. The majority are Muslims, but it's also other people from other backgrounds just coming here for an easy life when we should be sorting our own people out first.

Which is 100% wrong in everyway. In fact the number of people who were born and raised in this country that abuse benefits much more then immigrants anyway. If there is even any immigrants who do what you accuse them of its a tiny minority in an already small minority.

6matt6

I never called you BNP, I said your post read like a bnp pamphlet. I am in Manchester but I have lived near birmingham, a few places in essex and all around london. The % of the english population that are muslem is 3.

tenaka2

i feel people should have the right to wear whatever they like.

BlindBluMonstah

It makes people look a bit like ninjas, as ninjas are cool the banning is wrong.

tenaka2

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"] So covering one's identity with a hat and sunglasses is fine, but we can't have someone cover themself with a veil, that'd be a security risk.worlock77

So am I allowed to walk around naked in France? If not, why should they be allowed to walk around all covered up? Why is one extreme okay and the other is not?

Hexagon_777

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

So am I allowed to walk around naked in France? If not, why should they be allowed to walk around all covered up? Why is one extreme okay and the other is not?

Hexagon_777

I wouldn't, since it's a non-substantive, broken analogy.

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

So am I allowed to walk around naked in France? If not, why should they be allowed to walk around all covered up? Why is one extreme okay and the other is not?

Hexagon_777

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

So am I allowed to walk around naked in France? If not, why should they be allowed to walk around all covered up? Why is one extreme okay and the other is not?

coolbeans90

I wouldn't, since it's a non-substantive, broken analogy.

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

So am I allowed to walk around naked in France? If not, why should they be allowed to walk around all covered up? Why is one extreme okay and the other is not?

charlesdarwin55

I think it should be banned because I truly believe that no woman would actually want to live wearing it for their whole life. It seems they are to scared of the backlash from the islamic community if they question it or all together don't wear it.

I would in airports and other public international travel zones. Otherwise I think its racist to ban them

LaytonsCat

I'm against the ban since I think you should be able to wear whatever you want unless it's somehow 'offensive', and since the Burka is of religious significance (and I personally don't see what's wrong with it), I don't see how it is.fabz_95

What fabz_95 said.

I think it should be banned because I truly believe that no woman would actually want to live wearing it for their whole life. It seems they are to scared of the backlash from the islamic community if they question it or all together don't wear it.

zip0

[QUOTE="zip0"]

I think it should be banned because I truly believe that no woman would actually want to live wearing it for their whole life. It seems they are to scared of the backlash from the islamic community if they question it or all together don't wear it.

charlesdarwin55

[QUOTE="worlock77"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] LJS9502_basic

Growing up as a product of the whole "melting pot" idea, I always (and still do) welcome people from around the globe to join in the American Experiment. The only way this thing works, is if it really IS a 'melting pot.' I think it's terrific that people take some of their culture and traditions when they come to this country, I would HOPE (I said hope, not DEMAND) that they would also put in a concerted effort to try to "melt" or blend in a little bit with the rest of "us."

There is no way that any society can succeed, let alone survive, if there aren't some basic elements that most people (if not everyone) have in common.

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"]

[QUOTE="zip0"]

I think it should be banned because I truly believe that no woman would actually want to live wearing it for their whole life. It seems they are to scared of the backlash from the islamic community if they question it or all together don't wear it.

Nibroc420

HELLO

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"][QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"] I honestly don't think anyone wanna dress up like an emo but I don't think you should ban emos. Well I kinda do but still.

charlesdarwin55

HELLO

...

*Man wearing burka robs bank, witness says, "He went that way!"*

Where'd he go?

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"] I dont think the issue is people "Hate burkas" It's because of things like this It's like wearing a ski mask, no-one can see your face, and it makes identifying people VERY hard.Nibroc420

HELLO

...

*Man wearing burka robs bank, witness says, "He went that way!"*

Where'd he go?

*Man wearing beard/santa claus costume robs bank, witness says, "He went that way!"*

Where'd he go?

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"]

HELLO

...

charlesdarwin55

*Man wearing burka robs bank, witness says, "He went that way!"*

Where'd he go?

*Man wearing beard/santa claus costume robs bank, witness says, "He went that way!"*

Where'd he go?

Merry Christmas :)

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"]

[QUOTE="Nibroc420"]

*Man wearing burka robs bank, witness says, "He went that way!"*

Where'd he go?

YellowOneKinobi

*Man wearing beard/santa claus costume robs bank, witness says, "He went that way!"*

Where'd he go?

Merry Christmas :)