Democratic Congresswoman Shot @ public event

Here's a picture of a Jared Loughner. I'm assuming it's the same guy since this picture was taken in Tucson.

[QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

I think the bigger question is whether or not the film took place within in a dream itself. Consider this, in order to be asleep so long Cobb and his wife were probably under a sedative and in a Level 3 dream. Later in the movie it is explained that if you die in Level 3 under a sedative you enter Limbo where you can lose track of what is reality and what is a dream, and while in Level 3 both Copp and his wife are killed by a train, so shouldn't they both be in Limbo?

flazzle

I don't know. I don't think it's the bigger question right now. I think the bigger question is if she'll live and who/why the gunman did what he did.

The movie was good, but I don't think it trumps this current event.

Whoops posted this on the wrong thread, my back button lied to me. :(

[QUOTE="stanleycup98"]

Giffords is out of surgery and alive.

Gunman is Jared Lee Loughner.

supercubedude64

Using that name, I found this youtube channel, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/****tup10?ob=0

this

Seems like this guy's youtube channel

replace the * with c l a s s i

[QUOTE="LostProphetFLCL"]

[QUOTE="Chaos_HL21"]

Sometimes you don't need amotive. He may be some psychotic right winger or anti-goverment psychopath. Or he could be a person who was metnally unsable and just snapped.

Chaos_HL21

Anyone who goes and shoots someone like that is OBVIOUSLY mentally unstable.

Thing is, even the unstable have their motives and quite franly, anyone who is firing at politicians knows EXACTLY what they are doing.

It isn't like she randomly got shot in the street. She was attending a meeting and that guy showed up with a guy.

He definitely had a motive.

Ok maybe saying they don't need a motive isn't right. I should of said a logical motive. Like Richard Lawrence, thought that he was King Richard III of England andthought that Andrew Jackson was keeping him from becoming King of England. He also thought that Jackson killed is father, but his father never been to the US, so he tried to kill President Jackson, only to have his two weapons misfire and got his butt caned by Jackson.

Or John Hinckley Jr. who tried to Kill President Reagan to impress Jodie Foster.

Yes the motive definitely doesn't have to be logical.

I work at a nursing home and have had to deal with dementia patients so I know just how out of it people can be.

With the way the political climate has been though I wouldn't write off the idea of this being politically motivated, whether it be simply anti-democratic or anti-government in general.

[QUOTE="supercubedude64"]

[QUOTE="stanleycup98"]

Giffords is out of surgery and alive.

Gunman is Jared Lee Loughner.

SupraGT

Using that name, I found this youtube channel, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/****tup10?ob=0

this

Seems like this guy's youtube channel

replace the * with c l a s s i

[QUOTE="flazzle"]

[QUOTE="DarkGamer007"]

I think the bigger question is whether or not the film took place within in a dream itself. Consider this, in order to be asleep so long Cobb and his wife were probably under a sedative and in a Level 3 dream. Later in the movie it is explained that if you die in Level 3 under a sedative you enter Limbo where you can lose track of what is reality and what is a dream, and while in Level 3 both Copp and his wife are killed by a train, so shouldn't they both be in Limbo?

DarkGamer007

I don't know. I don't think it's the bigger question right now. I think the bigger question is if she'll live and who/why the gunman did what he did.

The movie was good, but I don't think it trumps this current event.

Whoops posted this on the wrong thread, my back button lied to me. :(

you just made my day. thank you.

OT: Horrible event, hope she pulls through and if this has anything to do with that Palin map or is politically motivated in any way then thats probably even worse than just some crazy dude losing his ****.

Did they get the guy who did it?

He needs to be dealt with...

It's one thing to protest against politics you don't like, and another to kill a politican.

Wasdie

How sad that the ignorance in this country has reached a level that we now shoot to kill our elected officials. Shameful day to be an American.

[QUOTE="supercubedude64"]

[QUOTE="stanleycup98"]

Giffords is out of surgery and alive.

Gunman is Jared Lee Loughner.

SupraGT

Using that name, I found this youtube channel, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/****tup10?ob=0

this

Seems like this guy's youtube channel

replace the * with c l a s s i

How sad that the ignorance in this country has reached a level that we now shoot to kill our elected officials. Shameful day to be an American.

Maniacc1

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"]

How sad that the ignorance in this country has reached a level that we now shoot to kill our elected officials. Shameful day to be an American.

kayoticdreamz

let's not use this as an opportunity to talk about gun control; this has nothing to do with gunsquiglythegreat

At that range she could have been stabbed, had her throat slit, or bludgeoned by something big.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Did they get the guy who did it?

He needs to be dealt with...

It's one thing to protest against politics you don't like, and another to kill a politican.

kayoticdreamz

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]let's not use this as an opportunity to talk about gun control; this has nothing to do with gunsWasdie

At that range she could have been stabbed, had her throat slit, or bludgeoned by something big.

How sad that the ignorance in this country has reached a level that we now shoot to kill our elected officials. Shameful day to be an American.

Maniacc1

This one guy in an entire country of over 300 million is the representive of the level of ignorance in all of America? I didn't know that.

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"]

How sad that the ignorance in this country has reached a level that we now shoot to kill our elected officials. Shameful day to be an American.

kayoticdreamz

Seems like you're subtly trying to justify this (even though it's unclear that there was a political motive behind this).

Care to lay out some examples of oppression in the US?

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"]

How sad that the ignorance in this country has reached a level that we now shoot to kill our elected officials. Shameful day to be an American.

flazzle

This one guy in an entire country of over 300 million is the representive of the level of ignorance in all of America? I didn't know that.

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"]Hmmmm.. I hope she survies. But how she got shot in the head? I don't know. Why am I talking to myself? Beats me. She's a MILF though. Agreed.MATheKing

[QUOTE="flazzle"]

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"]

How sad that the ignorance in this country has reached a level that we now shoot to kill our elected officials. Shameful day to be an American.

Maniacc1

This one guy in an entire country of over 300 million is the representive of the level of ignorance in all of America? I didn't know that.

You do know that other politicans, both Republicans and Democrats have been shot and/or killed in the past right?

Some nutjob gets all hung up on politics and tries to assassinate the opposition. No normal person of any political background would think that killing is the right thing.

[QUOTE="flazzle"]

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"]

How sad that the ignorance in this country has reached a level that we now shoot to kill our elected officials. Shameful day to be an American.

Maniacc1

This one guy in an entire country of over 300 million is the representive of the level of ignorance in all of America? I didn't know that.

Do we know if the motive of this guy is political or not? You can not blame everything on 'out of hand' recent political movements.

[QUOTE="flazzle"]

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"]

How sad that the ignorance in this country has reached a level that we now shoot to kill our elected officials. Shameful day to be an American.

Maniacc1

This one guy in an entire country of over 300 million is the representive of the level of ignorance in all of America? I didn't know that.

This is silly. There is no good information tying him to ANY political movement. Even if there was, the actions of one obviously deranged individual doesn't say anything about the validity of political movements, or their ideas.

Considering people have tried to kill the President to impress Jodie Foster, jumping to conclusions about political movements is absurd, at least at this time.

All of the political flaming going on around the interwebz right now kind of reminds me of something. It seems kind of strange to me, though, that someone would attack a politician of one party out of purely political motivations just days after the other party has taken control. You'd think that if something like this would happen out of pure political frustration, it would have happened a year ago.

Not that someone who would do this could be rational in any way.

This isn't about gun control, it's about the fear mongering and violent rhetoric espoused by Republicans and psychopaths like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.

"Don't retreat. Instead — reload! The crossfire is intense, so penetrate through enemy territory by bombing through the press, and use your strong weapons -- your Big Guns -- to drive to the hole. Shoot with accuracy; aim high and remember... it takes blood, sweat and tears to win," -- Sarah Palin

This needs to come to an end.

This isn't about gun control, it's about the fear mongering and violent rhetoric espoused by Republicans and psychopaths like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.

"Don't retreat. Instead — reload! The crossfire is intense, so penetrate through enemy territory by bombing through the press, and use your strong weapons -- your Big Guns -- to drive to the hole. Shoot with accuracy; aim high and remember... it takes blood, sweat and tears to win," -- Sarah Palin

This needs to come to an end.

Silent_Bob32

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

[QUOTE="Silent_Bob32"]

This isn't about gun control, it's about the fear mongering and violent rhetoric espoused by Republicans and psychopaths like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.

"Don't retreat. Instead — reload! The crossfire is intense, so penetrate through enemy territory by bombing through the press, and use your strong weapons -- your Big Guns -- to drive to the hole. Shoot with accuracy; aim high and remember... it takes blood, sweat and tears to win," -- Sarah Palin

This needs to come to an end.

GreySeal9

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

The only thing that's even remotely incriminating is that quote on Palin's twitter, which is clearly from some douchebag. The sad thing is, there are people who really want this to be politically motivated. I find almost as twisted as the act itself.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Silent_Bob32"]

This isn't about gun control, it's about the fear mongering and violent rhetoric espoused by Republicans and psychopaths like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.

"Don't retreat. Instead — reload! The crossfire is intense, so penetrate through enemy territory by bombing through the press, and use your strong weapons -- your Big Guns -- to drive to the hole. Shoot with accuracy; aim high and remember... it takes blood, sweat and tears to win," -- Sarah Palin

This needs to come to an end.

Rhazakna

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

The only thing that's even remotely incriminating is that quote on Palin's twitter, which is clearly from some douchebag. The sad thing is, there are people who really want this to be politically motivated. I find almost as twisted as the act itself.

I don't now that I'd go that far, but I thin anybody that wants this to be politically motivate needs to take a break from politics because its adversely effecting them.

On a somewhat related note, Sarah Palin has taken down that target thing.

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

GreySeal9

the fact that the victim is a politician is evidence it was politically motivated. You would make a lousy homicide detective. There may not be proof, but there is evidence.

EDIT: i can see this as a sitcom

Cop: Detective GreySeal a politician was shot at a rally.

Detective GreySeal: good, get me a list of people that have no idea who she is... we are gonna catch this guy!

Cop: Dont you think we should look at political extremist groups that have denounced her agenda?

Detective GreySeal: nonono, there is no evidence of that!

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

GreySeal9

The only thing that's even remotely incriminating is that quote on Palin's twitter, which is clearly from some douchebag. The sad thing is, there are people who really want this to be politically motivated. I find almost as twisted as the act itself.

I don't now that I'd go that far, but I thin anybody that wants this to be politically motivate needs to take a break from politics because its adversely effecting them.

On a somewhat related note, Sarah Palin has taken down that target thing.

What's your definition of "politically motivated"? Honest question, because this guy seems like an Alex Jones-type lunatic who thinks he knows more about politics than anyone else. I think it's pretty clear that politics motivated this guy...though it looks like he wasn't influenced by any "mainstream" party.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

markinthedark

the fact that the victim is a politician is evidence it was politically motivated. You would make a lousy homicide detective. There may not be proof, but there is evidence.

You say I would make a lousy homicide detective yet you think the mere fact that the victim is a politician is automatically evidence of political motivation? That's ridiculous.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

markinthedark

the fact that the victim is a politician is evidence it was politically motivated. You would make a lousy homicide detective. There may not be proof, but there is evidence.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

The only thing that's even remotely incriminating is that quote on Palin's twitter, which is clearly from some douchebag. The sad thing is, there are people who really want this to be politically motivated. I find almost as twisted as the act itself.

JML897

I don't now that I'd go that far, but I thin anybody that wants this to be politically motivate needs to take a break from politics because its adversely effecting them.

On a somewhat related note, Sarah Palin has taken down that target thing.

What's your definition of "politically motivated"? Honest question, because this guy seems like an Alex Jones-type lunatic who thinks he knows more about politics than anyone else. I think it's pretty clear that politics motivated this guy...though it looks like he wasn't influenced by any "mainstream" party.

My definition, in the context of this thread, is someone who killed out of opposition to the victim's politics.

I know that no news media is ever going to report this. But this women was one of 20 on Palin's "target map"

http://www.alan.com/2010/03/24/palin-puts-gun-sighs-on-target-map-says-ti/

it has since been removed completly from Palin's site, but it seems likely that this shooting was politiclly motivated.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

The only thing that's even remotely incriminating is that quote on Palin's twitter, which is clearly from some douchebag. The sad thing is, there are people who really want this to be politically motivated. I find almost as twisted as the act itself.

JML897

I don't now that I'd go that far, but I thin anybody that wants this to be politically motivate needs to take a break from politics because its adversely effecting them.

On a somewhat related note, Sarah Palin has taken down that target thing.

What's your definition of "politically motivated"? Honest question, because this guy seems like an Alex Jones-type lunatic who thinks he knows more about politics than anyone else. I think it's pretty clear that politics motivated this guy...though it looks like he wasn't influenced by any "mainstream" party.

What makes it clear that politics motivated him? The fact that he shot a politician? By that logic, John Hinkley must've been a Chomskyite.

There is no evidence that this was politically motivated. Claiming it's "obvious" isn't evidence.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

markinthedark

the fact that the victim is a politician is evidence it was politically motivated. You would make a lousy homicide detective. There may not be proof, but there is evidence.

EDIT: i can see this as a sitcom

Cop: Detective GreySeal a politician was shot at a rally.

Detective GreySeal: good, get me a list of people that have no idea who she is... we are gonna catch this guy!

Cop: Dont you think we should look at political extremist groups that have denounced her agenda?

Detective GreySeal: nonono, there is no evidence of that!

You're little sitcom is a pretty dishonest skewering of my position.

I never said that political extremist groups shouldn't be looked at in the case of a politician being killed. I never said that it wasn't possible that the killing was political. I'm simply saying that there is not yet any evidence that the killing was politically motivated.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

GreySeal9

the fact that the victim is a politician is evidence it was politically motivated. You would make a lousy homicide detective. There may not be proof, but there is evidence.

You say I would make a lousy homicide detective yet you think the mere fact that the victim is a politician is automatically evidence of political motivation? That's ridiculous.

Oh, what a silly person you are! Don't you know that a politician being shot is automatically evidence that the shooter was motivated politically? No crazy person ever tried to shoot a politician in order to impress an actress, or anything like that. That would never happen. It's always politically motivated, even when there's nothing to suggest that.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

markinthedark

the fact that the victim is a politician is evidence it was politically motivated. You would make a lousy homicide detective. There may not be proof, but there is evidence.

EDIT: i can see this as a sitcom

Cop: Detective GreySeal a politician was shot at a rally.

Detective GreySeal: good, get me a list of people that have no idea who she is... we are gonna catch this guy!

Cop: Dont you think we should look at political extremist groups that have denounced her agenda?

Detective GreySeal: nonono, there is no evidence of that!

lol, wow. He never said that political extremist groups shouldn't be looked into, he said there is no evidence currently to suggest it was politically motivated. He happens to be correct in his claim.

I know logic is hard, but at least try next time.

[QUOTE="JML897"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I don't now that I'd go that far, but I thin anybody that wants this to be politically motivate needs to take a break from politics because its adversely effecting them.

On a somewhat related note, Sarah Palin has taken down that target thing.

Rhazakna

What's your definition of "politically motivated"? Honest question, because this guy seems like an Alex Jones-type lunatic who thinks he knows more about politics than anyone else. I think it's pretty clear that politics motivated this guy...though it looks like he wasn't influenced by any "mainstream" party.

What makes it clear that politics motivated him? The fact that he shot a politician? By that logic, John Hinkley must've been a Chomskyite.

There is no evidence that this was politically motivated. Claiming it's "obvious" isn't evidence.

Unless I interpreted his youtube video incorrectly, he made it sound like it was politically motivated.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

Rhazakna

the fact that the victim is a politician is evidence it was politically motivated. You would make a lousy homicide detective. There may not be proof, but there is evidence.

EDIT: i can see this as a sitcom

Cop: Detective GreySeal a politician was shot at a rally.

Detective GreySeal: good, get me a list of people that have no idea who she is... we are gonna catch this guy!

Cop: Dont you think we should look at political extremist groups that have denounced her agenda?

Detective GreySeal: nonono, there is no evidence of that!

lol, wow. He never said that political extremist groups shouldn't be looked into, he said there is no evidence currently to suggest it was politically motivated. He happens to be correct in his claim.

I know logic is hard, but at least try next time.

For some, logic seems to go out the window (not that it was ever there in the first place) when they are trying hard to be clever. This "sitcom" is a good example of that.

What I find amazing is that so many people didn't seem to have a problem with the escalated BS john wayne talk coming from the right and the tea party, regardless of this incident, because you all know full well this could turn out to just be a psycho with his own motivations that have nothing to do with right versus left. Silent bob's post is exactly what I am talking about. How on earth did we get to live in a country where a political party thinks it's okay to campaign on guns and threats of violence, and complete lies about this country having been founded as a Christian nation? It's like we have regressed to the Reagan - Chritian televangelist era, only now we have politicians who routinely throw out the most paranoid and most harmful rhetoric imagineable, along with this proud and stupid mentality - anti science, anti education, anti cosmopolitan. It's like some people are so frightened by change and historical truth that they want to stampede back to the dark ages. And why is it okay to use gun and shooting metaphors so clearly when talking about political opposition? And the rancor, the nastiness is just frightening, like the signs that read "Bury the Health Care Bill with Kennedy." Who the hell are these people? And with this kind of moronic vitriol out there, will it really be all that surprising when something does happen that is motivated by all this blind hate?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Silent_Bob32"]

This isn't about gun control, it's about the fear mongering and violent rhetoric espoused by Republicans and psychopaths like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.

"Don't retreat. Instead - reload! The crossfire is intense, so penetrate through enemy territory by bombing through the press, and use your strong weapons -- your Big Guns -- to drive to the hole. Shoot with accuracy; aim high and remember... it takes blood, sweat and tears to win," -- Sarah Palin

This needs to come to an end.

Rhazakna

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

The only thing that's even remotely incriminating is that quote on Palin's twitter, which is clearly from some douchebag. The sad thing is, there are people who really want this to be politically motivated. I find almost as twisted as the act itself.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

[QUOTE="JML897"]

What's your definition of "politically motivated"? Honest question, because this guy seems like an Alex Jones-type lunatic who thinks he knows more about politics than anyone else. I think it's pretty clear that politics motivated this guy...though it looks like he wasn't influenced by any "mainstream" party.

JML897

What makes it clear that politics motivated him? The fact that he shot a politician? By that logic, John Hinkley must've been a Chomskyite.

There is no evidence that this was politically motivated. Claiming it's "obvious" isn't evidence.

Unless I interpreted his youtube video incorrectly, he made it sound like it was politically motivated.

I watched all of his youtube videos, and couldn't get one coherent thought out of them, politically or otherwise. Watching that video, the first thing that comes to your mind is political motivation? Do you see what he's saying? It makes no sense at all, it doesn't even resemble an argument. Watching those videos made me think I was peering into the mind of someone completely deranged, not that he was motivated politically.

"You can create new currencies, therefore you can create a third currency."

"You can new languages, therefore you can create a third language."

These are not political arguments, these are the rantings of a lunatic.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

Silent_Bob32

The only thing that's even remotely incriminating is that quote on Palin's twitter, which is clearly from some douchebag. The sad thing is, there are people who really want this to be politically motivated. I find almost as twisted as the act itself.

Ever heard of Reagan? Ever heard of Hinkley? I guess not.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

the fact that the victim is a politician is evidence it was politically motivated. You would make a lousy homicide detective. There may not be proof, but there is evidence.

EDIT: i can see this as a sitcom

Cop: Detective GreySeal a politician was shot at a rally.

Detective GreySeal: good, get me a list of people that have no idea who she is... we are gonna catch this guy!

Cop: Dont you think we should look at political extremist groups that have denounced her agenda?

Detective GreySeal: nonono, there is no evidence of that!

GreySeal9

lol, wow. He never said that political extremist groups shouldn't be looked into, he said there is no evidence currently to suggest it was politically motivated. He happens to be correct in his claim.

I know logic is hard, but at least try next time.

For some, logic seems to go out the window (not that it was ever there in the first place) when they are trying hard to be clever. This "sitcom" is a good example of that.

so your saying it would be illogical to deduce that the shooting of a politician at a political rally... might be evidence of a politically motivated shooting?

guess im illogical then.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

There is no evidence that the shooting was politically motivated.

That said, Sarah Palin is a fool.

Silent_Bob32

The only thing that's even remotely incriminating is that quote on Palin's twitter, which is clearly from some douchebag. The sad thing is, there are people who really want this to be politically motivated. I find almost as twisted as the act itself.

Well it can be like Hinckley who tried to assassinate Reagan to impress Jodie Foster, also there is nothing linking this guy to Palin or Beck, looking at his youtube page I don't think he follows the Tea Party.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

lol, wow. He never said that political extremist groups shouldn't be looked into, he said there is no evidence currently to suggest it was politically motivated. He happens to be correct in his claim.

I know logic is hard, but at least try next time.

markinthedark

For some, logic seems to go out the window (not that it was ever there in the first place) when they are trying hard to be clever. This "sitcom" is a good example of that.

so your saying it would be illogical to deduce that the shooting of a politician at a political rally... might be evidence of a politically motivated shooting?

guess im illogical then.

No, it is illogical to assume that a shooting was politically motivated, when there is no evidence to suggest that. There's nothing wrong with investigating political motivations, but saying it's obviously politically motivated, because a politician was shot, is indeed illogical. It assumes that there is no other reason for a politician to be shot, and that there is no other motivation besides a political one.

Reagan was shot because a crazy guy saw Taxi Driver too many times for god's sake.

What I find amazing is that so many people didn't seem to have a problem with the escalated BS john wayne talk coming from the right and the tea party, regardless of this incident, because you all know full well this could turn out to just be a psycho with his own motivations that have nothing to do with right versus left. Silent bob's post is exactly what I am talking about. How on earth did we get to live in a country where a political party thinks it's okay to campaign on guns and threats of violence, and complete lies about this country having been founded as a Christian nation? It's like we have regressed to the Reagan - Chritian televangelist era, only now we have politicians who routinely throw out the most paranoid and most harmful rhetoric imagineable, along with this proud and stupid mentality - anti science, anti education, anti cosmopolitan. It's like some people are so frightened by change and historical truth that they want to stampede back to the dark ages. And why is it okay to use gun and shooting metaphors so clearly when talking about political opposition? And the rancor, the nastiness is just frightening, like the signs that read "Bury the Health Care Bill with Kennedy." Who the hell are these people? And with this kind of moronic vitriol out there, will it really be all that surprising when something does happen that is motivated by all this blind hate?

GodzillavsXenu