Democratic Congresswoman Shot @ public event

I just saw the shooter's youtube channel.

He calls himself a revolutionary but he sounds more like a madman although some of his thoughts are interesting (outside this context of course). It strikes me the most that he calls on illiteracy and yet he can't even spell "your" properly in one of the videos.

He's the typical delusional revolutionary. In the words of Slavoj Sizek, he's not cutting the balls properly (like his ramblings suggests he wants to) but merely dusting them.

[QUOTE="CheckMate"]

A twitter fromanobody. Lets wait until the facts come out. It doesn't sound very logical that a liberal would shoot a liberal democrat, does it?

flazzle

Actually, it could be quite logical. He may think she isn't following the liberal agenda like she should and 'wants to make an example' or to show other liberal leaders 'this is what happens if you don't follow our agenda'.

Or it could be one issue they don't agree with that is sticking in his craw.

Or maybe in some sick way if he thinks he eliminates her, someone he favors will take her place.

[QUOTE="peaceful_anger"]

It's sad that theleft seems to almost jump with glee when something tragic like this happens because they see an opportunity to mine it for political capital, rather than being concerned about the victims involved. I mean seriously, if your first reaction to such an event is to think of Palin, Beck, or the Tea Party, then something is clearly wrong with you.

GreySeal9, just wanted to let you know my respect for you has gone up for not going that route.

CheckMate

I think the left is all over this because alot of the vitriol coming from right-wing media preaches revolution. In fact, Sarah Palin herself had gun targets pointed at democrat representatives.

Furthermore, it is the right that advocated gun ownership for all, regardless of any reasoning.

Something similar to this happened in Pittsburgh over a year ago when a man shot police officers. The man that fired on the police officer was a Glen Beck fan.

Be that as it may, this individual was seriously distrurbed.

This appears to be an act of a very demented person, no matter his politics. I watched one of his videos and honestly, it was enough to see that he wasn't wrapped to tight and is definitely 2 sandwiches short of a picnic. Those who think it politically motivated may very well be eating crow later on.

As others have already pointed out, not all shootings of politicians are politically motivated.

[QUOTE="kayoticdreamz"][QUOTE="Maniacc1"]

How sad that the ignorance in this country has reached a level that we now shoot to kill our elected officials. Shameful day to be an American.

Maniacc1

except certain laws break said constitution. those laws oppress the people. or how about the other thread about police brutality? the endless gun laws that violate the second amendment. censorship laws or compilance with the FCC. cops can make you stop without reasonable cause all the time i mean is speeding really a reasonable cause to get stopped by a cop? and if you call him on it chances are your just royally screwed. the 70 000 page tax code book that is oppressive.

the IRS basically is allowed to raped and seize all your belongings if you fail to pay all of your taxes and just give you the middle finger. not sure where the founders intended for an IRS to exist that could just come in and steal your property. or where they intended the law to be able to just stop you for no real reason. or how about supoenas i think its called? where you have to appear and testify in court. doesnt that sort of violate my 5th amendment rights? and im fairly certain the founders never intended to have a giant huge massive government and george washington even warned about getting too wrapped up in political parties. but no your right the american people arent oppressed at all.

but go ahead flick off a cop(1st amendment right) while carrying a gun(second amendment right) and see what happens to your 4th and 5th amendment rights. if thats not oppression i dont know what is. because youll get arrested, lose your gun, with no probable cause your house will be searched, and unless you want to rot in jail forever youll be forced to violate your 5th amendment right and testify. and theres a high chance your 6th amendment right of a speedy trial will get lost underneath the endless paper work to bring you to court. so 5 of the 10 bill of rights right there just got violated and we are not oppressed? oh and the laws that will put you in jail forever probably violate the 9th and 10th amendment because they are laws that are said that the state cant pass and feds cant pass so they are the peoples rights.....so scratch that 7 of the 10 bill of rights destroyed right there. 6 if you arent carrying a gun.

but your right we are not oppressed at all....give it time the 3rd amendment will be violated too. wait i just double checked amendment 7 the no excessive fines or jail time can be imposed....ya that will get violated too. well there we have it folks america citizens lose 7 of there bill of rights apparently does not equal oppression

peaceful_anger, I'm conderned about your sanity.

Obama inciting violence?

Where'd you get that from,Fox News?

Why is it that the right always distorts? Arizona and republicans advocate open gun laws and the right to carry arms no holds barred.

The right, especially Glen Beck are constantly harping about revolution.

The right is alwasy harping on the Fed.

The right was harping how democrats supposedly disregard the Constitution.

All of this was in those deluded messages from that insane nut-job.

The anger was present at the open Town hall meeting during the health care debate where TEA Baggers were screaming at politicians.

It is the right that was fabricating death panels.

The list goes on and on.

kayoticdreamz, if there was no IRS how would the neo-con hawks war-monger?

Furthermore, our country has laws and as ruled by the SCOTUS their are limits to Free Speech and other amendments. We do not live in an anarchy.

This appears to be an act of a very demented person, no matter his politics. I watched one of his videos and honestly, it was enough to see that he wasn't wrapped to tight and is definitely 2 sandwiches short of a picnic. Those who think it politically motivated may very well be eating crow later on.

As others have already pointed out, not all shootings of politicians are politically motivated.

WhiteKnight77

That's horrible. I hope she's alright.

kayoticdreamz, if there was no IRS how would the neo-con hawks war-monger?

Furthermore, our country has laws and as ruled by the SCOTUS their are limits to Free Speech and other amendments. We do not live in an anarchy.

CheckMate

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

This appears to be an act of a very demented person, no matter his politics. I watched one of his videos and honestly, it was enough to see that he wasn't wrapped to tight and is definitely 2 sandwiches short of a picnic. Those who think it politically motivated may very well be eating crow later on.

As others have already pointed out, not all shootings of politicians are politically motivated.

quiglythegreat

peaceful_anger, I'm conderned about your sanity.

Obama inciting violence?

Where'd you get that from,Fox News?

Why is it that the right always distorts? Arizona and republicans advocate open gun laws and the right to carry arms no holds barred.

The right, especially Glen Beck are constantly harping about revolution.

The right is alwasy harping on the Fed.

The right was harping how democrats supposedly disregard the Constitution.

All of this was in those deluded messages from that insane nut-job.

The anger was present at the open Town hall meeting during the health care debate where TEA Baggers were screaming at politicians.

It is the right that was fabricating death panels.

The list goes on and on.

CheckMate

[QUOTE="CheckMate"]

kayoticdreamz, if there was no IRS how would the neo-con hawks war-monger?

Furthermore, our country has laws and as ruled by the SCOTUS their are limits to Free Speech and other amendments. We do not live in an anarchy.

kayoticdreamz

[QUOTE="flazzle"]

[QUOTE="CheckMate"]

A twitter fromanobody. Lets wait until the facts come out. It doesn't sound very logical that a liberal would shoot a liberal democrat, does it?

Rhazakna

Actually, it could be quite logical. He may think she isn't following the liberal agenda like she should and 'wants to make an example' or to show other liberal leaders 'this is what happens if you don't follow our agenda'.

Or it could be one issue they don't agree with that is sticking in his craw.

Or maybe in some sick way if he thinks he eliminates her, someone he favors will take her place.

It was indeed a politician that was assaulted, as well as other innocent people.

You want to know what is disgusting? Preaching revolution, telling people that there are people in the government that want control over your lives. This is precisely what Loughner spoke about in his three Youtube messages. He most likely was crazy, and it didn't take much prodding to get him over the edge.

Here is Glenn Beck preaching revolution a couple of weeks ago. About secret people hiding in our government brainwashing people. This is almost exactly what Loughner spoke about. Watch for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFxvxvnrBi8

[QUOTE="kayoticdreamz"][QUOTE="CheckMate"]

kayoticdreamz, if there was no IRS how would the neo-con hawks war-monger?

Furthermore, our country has laws and as ruled by the SCOTUS their are limits to Free Speech and other amendments. We do not live in an anarchy.

HoolaHoopMan

Yep. You are correct about Free Speech, etc.

Thank you for your post!

kayoticdreamz, if there was no IRS how would the neo-con hawks war-monger?

Furthermore, our country has laws and as ruled by the SCOTUS their are limits to Free Speech and other amendments. We do not live in an anarchy.

CheckMate

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="flazzle"]

Actually, it could be quite logical. He may think she isn't following the liberal agenda like she should and 'wants to make an example' or to show other liberal leaders 'this is what happens if you don't follow our agenda'.

Or it could be one issue they don't agree with that is sticking in his craw.

Or maybe in some sick way if he thinks he eliminates her, someone he favors will take her place.

CheckMate

It was indeed a politician that was assaulted, as well as other innocent people.

You want to know what is disgusting? Preaching revolution, telling people that there are people in the government that want control over your lives. This is precisely what Loughner spoke about in his three Youtube messages. He most likely was crazy, and it didn't take much prodding to get him over the edge.

Here is Glenn Beck preaching revolution a couple of weeks ago. About secret people hiding in our government brainwashing people. This is almost exactly what Loughner spoke about. Watch for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFxvxvnrBi8

There are people in government who want to control people's lives. They exist in every government, in every party all throughout history. Many of them have very good intentions, some of them don't. It has nothing to do with Obama, democrats, republicans or anything else. It's just the nature of the state. Denying this is silly, and it certainly isn't disgusting to say this.

Glenn Beck is not someone I'm familiar with, and I don't care to become familiar with him. I watched the suspects youtube videos, and what came across was insanity, not some political motivation. Maybe politics did have something to do with it, in his insane mind, but that seems to me to be similar to the people who blamed Marilyn Manson and Doom for Columbine.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

This appears to be an act of a very demented person, no matter his politics. I watched one of his videos and honestly, it was enough to see that he wasn't wrapped to tight and is definitely 2 sandwiches short of a picnic. Those who think it politically motivated may very well be eating crow later on.

As others have already pointed out, not all shootings of politicians are politically motivated.

quiglythegreat

Thank you.

[QUOTE="CheckMate"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"] This CheckMate person sounds like one of the folks who very much want this to be political, because of the damage that would do to the tea party and the republicans at large. A disgusting attitude, really.Rhazakna

It was indeed a politician that was assaulted, as well as other innocent people.

You want to know what is disgusting? Preaching revolution, telling people that there are people in the government that want control over your lives. This is precisely what Loughner spoke about in his three Youtube messages. He most likely was crazy, and it didn't take much prodding to get him over the edge.

Here is Glenn Beck preaching revolution a couple of weeks ago. About secret people hiding in our government brainwashing people. This is almost exactly what Loughner spoke about. Watch for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFxvxvnrBi8

There are people in government who want to control people's lives. They exist in every government, in every party all throughout history. Many of them have very good intentions, some of them don't. It has nothing to do with Obama, democrats, republicans or anything else. It's just the nature of the state. Denying this is silly, and it certainly isn't disgusting to say this.

Glenn Beck is not someone I'm familiar with, and I don't care to become familiar with him. I watched the suspects youtube videos, and what came across was insanity, not some political motivation. Maybe politics did have something to do with it, in his insane mind, but that seems to me to be similar to the people who blamed Marilyn Manson and Doom for Columbine.

Now they're saying the shooter may not have acted alone. :?Theokhoth

Truly a tragedy. Loughner does appear to be a loon. I wonder if that will be utilized in his trial to prevent him from receiving the death penalty (considering he did kill a federal judge).

update: her doctor is optimistic about her recovery (whatever that may mean?)Unknownmuncher

Truly a tragedy. Loughner does appear to be a loon. I wonder if that will be utilized in his trial to prevent him from receiving the death penalty (considering he did kill a federal judge).

ragek1ll589

Unfortunately, an insanity plea will be entertained from the looks of it all. I really wish that people could not use such a plea as easily as it is.

This is just awful. Thankfully it sounds like the congresswoman is doing all right as of now, even though she's still in critical condition.

[QUOTE="ragek1ll589"]

Truly a tragedy. Loughner does appear to be a loon. I wonder if that will be utilized in his trial to prevent him from receiving the death penalty (considering he did kill a federal judge).

WhiteKnight77

Unfortunately, an insanity plea will be entertained from the looks of it all. I really wish that people could not use such a plea as easily as it is.

The insanity plea is rarely used.-Sun_Tzu-

im guessing she was the targetweezyfb

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="ragek1ll589"]

Truly a tragedy. Loughner does appear to be a loon. I wonder if that will be utilized in his trial to prevent him from receiving the death penalty (considering he did kill a federal judge).

-Sun_Tzu-

Unfortunately, an insanity plea will be entertained from the looks of it all. I really wish that people could not use such a plea as easily as it is.

Gucci Mane Sent To Mental Hospital details how Gucci Mane pleads mental incompetency when he was about to be sent back to jail prior to a probation revocation hearing just this past week. He had already been convicted previously. It is used more often than we hear about.

[QUOTE="weezyfb"]im guessing she was the targetdunl12496

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

No, I would agree that the context of the crime makes looking in to political motivations more rational than gambling. There is still no positive evidence regarding the motivation of the individual. The evidence we have, such as his youtube channel, does not seem to suggest a political motivation

Picture this: A wife, famous for having affairs, is brutally murdered in her home with no forced entry. By your logic, the crime itself is evidence that the husband did it, and of his motivations, but this is incorrect. The context of the crime makes looking into the husband a reasonable way to go, but the crime itself is not evidence of his guilt or his possible motivations.

Rhazakna

why would the context make looking into the crime one way more reasonable than another way? is the context of the crime evidence used in drawing that conclusion? i think so.

If you were prosecuting the case, would you leave the part about his wife having an affair out, because its not evidence.... or would you use that information as evidence of his guilt when addressing the jury?

how bout you give me an example of what you consider evidence...

EDIT: lets just put it this way, would knowing the context of a murder help you catch the killer? if your answer is yes.... then that information would be a thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgement.... which is the very definition of evidence.

This debate is getting muddled. Let me try to break it down, and see if I'm confused anywhere.

Your claim: a politician being shot is, in and of itself, evidence of a politically motivated assassination.

My claim: that does not follow, the crime is not evidence of the motivation of the perpetrator in and of itself. By that logic, all killings of important people are in and of themselves, evidence of the perps motivation.

Your claim: the fact that it is reasonable to look into political motivations to explain this crime is evidence of political motivation.

My claim: again, that does not follow. Leading the investigation in that direction may be reasonable, given the context, but it does not follow that therefore the motivations of the suspect can be known.

Is this about right, or have I missed something? Honest question.

I never said that the crime was politically motivated.

I said there was evidence to support the conclusion that its politically motivated, not that the conclusion is correct.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

Unfortunately, an insanity plea will be entertained from the looks of it all. I really wish that people could not use such a plea as easily as it is.

WhiteKnight77

Gucci Mane Sent To Mental Hospital details how Gucci Mane pleads mental incompetency when he was about to be sent back to jail prior to a probation revocation hearing just this past week. He had already been convicted previously. It is used more often than we hear about.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Now they're saying the shooter may not have acted alone. :?fidosim

I'm guessing he just couldn't grow up. If you lay on the "we are righteous because we are the United States and we are American" too thick for too long people never see the world for what it really is. I figured he snapped. Society creates it's own problems.

Most supporters don't even know they are lying. They believe in the **** they have been fed. The others just don't care. Society is based on lies because the truth won't manipulate anyone. Yes your government is your enemy, but they are the lesser of other evils. If you want to survive you're going to have to side with someone. Even if they are scum. Not all are though,many are just grunts, they don't know any better. or they know it's the only option.

Is there mind control, brainwashing and oppression via censorship? Yes, is it wrong? Yes. Does it infringe upon freedom? Yes. But if they want to play games then play their games. It's not that hard, they are not THAT smart. Dictionary's and other educational material are not banned... not yet. Don't use words they can censor.

I don't agree with his decision but what I saw on TV was nothing but bland reiteration of why someone shouldn't do it. Fo them it's no longer a question of why he did it, it's a matter of damage control and prevention. Why is killing wrong? Everyone says it's wrong but they never have a good reason why. Under the circumstances killing is not going to be accepted because we all want order. It's about what we want, not which is right or wrong. I don't want chaos, while it may lead to the extermination of a few scumbags it also leads to the deaths of innocent people. Or people who just aren't a threat. This is why the targets surround their selves with naive colleagues and mercenaries. They protect the target by unwittingly surrounding the target with innocent people, their selves.

It was asinine, but someone who would do something like this is either furious, desperate or dimwitted. Rather than figure out why he was angry they have psychologists say he was crazy. EVEN crazy people have a reason. Who has been harassing and belittling him? Who's the antagonist?

It's just gonna be another reason for people who have a reason to fear guns to try to ban guns. And when I say "a reason to fear" I mean these people give other people a reason to kill them.

It will be business as usual. Nobody wants the public nor free press to see him assomething more than a lunatic, which he may be. But more likely just a young man that wanted revenge for being lied to as well as rejected his entire life. And when naive or dimwitted people wake up it's going to be catastrophic.

I'm guessing he just couldn't grow up. If you lay on the "we are righteous because we are the United States and we are American" too thick for too long people never see the world for what it really is. I figured he snapped. Society creates it's own problems.

Most supporters don't even know they are lying. They believe in the **** they have been fed. The others just don't care. Society is based on lies because the truth won't manipulate anyone. Yes your government is your enemy, but they are the lesser of other evils. If you want to survive you're going to have to side with someone. Even if they are scum. Not all are though,many are just grunts, they don't know any better. or they know it's the only option.

Is there mind control, brainwashing and oppression via censorship? Yes, is it wrong? Yes. Does it infringe upon freedom? Yes. But if they want to play games then play their games. It's not that hard, they are not THAT smart. Dictionary's and other educational material are not banned... not yet. Don't use words they can censor.

I don't agree with his decision but what I saw on TV was nothing but bland reiteration of why someone shouldn't do it. Fo them it's no longer a question of why he did it, it's a matter of damage control and prevention. Why is killing wrong? Everyone says it's wrong but they never have a good reason why. Under the circumstances killing is not going to be accepted because we all want order. It's about what we want, not which is right or wrong. I don't want chaos, while it may lead to the extermination of a few scumbags it also leads to the deaths of innocent people. Or people who just aren't a threat. This is why the targets surround their selves with naive colleagues and mercenaries. They protect the target by unwittingly surrounding the target with innocent people, their selves.

It was asinine, but someone who would do something like this is either furious, desperate or dimwitted. Rather than figure out why he was angry they have psychologists say he was crazy. EVEN crazy people have a reason. Who has been harassing and belittling him? Who's the antagonist?

It's just gonna be another reason for people who have a reason to fear guns to try to ban guns. And when I say "a reason to fear" I mean these people give other people a reason to kill them.

It will be business as usual. Nobody wants the public nor free press to see him assomething more than a lunatic, which he may be. But more likely just a young man that wanted revenge for being lied to as well as rejected his entire life. And when naive or dimwitted people wake up it's going to be catastrophic.

MagnumPI

Oh... well I didn't create topic.

I'm guessing he just couldn't grow up. If you lay on the "we are righteous because we are the United States and we are American" too thick for too long people never see the world for what it really is. I figured he snapped. Society creates it's own problems.

Most supporters don't even know they are lying. They believe in the **** they have been fed. The others just don't care. Society is based on lies because the truth won't manipulate anyone. Yes your government is your enemy, but they are the lesser of other evils. If you want to survive you're going to have to side with someone. Even if they are scum. Not all are though,many are just grunts, they don't know any better. or they know it's the only option.

Is there mind control, brainwashing and oppression via censorship? Yes, is it wrong? Yes. Does it infringe upon freedom? Yes. But if they want to play games then play their games. It's not that hard, they are not THAT smart. Dictionary's and other educational material are not banned... not yet. Don't use words they can censor.

I don't agree with his decision but what I saw on TV was nothing but bland reiteration of why someone shouldn't do it. Fo them it's no longer a question of why he did it, it's a matter of damage control and prevention. Why is killing wrong? Everyone says it's wrong but they never have a good reason why. Under the circumstances killing is not going to be accepted because we all want order. It's about what we want, not which is right or wrong. I don't want chaos, while it may lead to the extermination of a few scumbags it also leads to the deaths of innocent people. Or people who just aren't a threat. This is why the targets surround their selves with naive colleagues and mercenaries. They protect the target by unwittingly surrounding the target with innocent people, their selves.

It was asinine, but someone who would do something like this is either furious, desperate or dimwitted. Rather than figure out why he was angry they have psychologists say he was crazy. EVEN crazy people have a reason. Who has been harassing and belittling him? Who's the antagonist?

It's just gonna be another reason for people who have a reason to fear guns to try to ban guns. And when I say "a reason to fear" I mean these people give other people a reason to kill them.

It will be business as usual. Nobody wants the public nor free press to see him assomething more than a lunatic, which he may be. But more likely just a young man that wanted revenge for being lied to as well as rejected his entire life. And when naive or dimwitted people wake up it's going to be catastrophic.

MagnumPI

Rather than figure out why he was angry they have psychologists say he was crazy. EVEN crazy people have a reason.

MagnumPI

I heard about this but there were a lot more killed then 6. I heard there were 18-20 killed.YoungFlitz

that's what I thought, there has been a lot of misinformation and speculation regarding the event, but i'm sure it will all be settled soon

although i disagree with democrat's vplitics, may the congressmen and the other victims RIP. violence is the wrong way.

Damn that's right near my house.