Democratic Congresswoman Shot @ public event

[QUOTE="JML897"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

What makes it clear that politics motivated him? The fact that he shot a politician? By that logic, John Hinkley must've been a Chomskyite.

There is no evidence that this was politically motivated. Claiming it's "obvious" isn't evidence.

Rhazakna

Unless I interpreted his youtube video incorrectly, he made it sound like it was politically motivated.

I watched all of his youtube videos, and couldn't get one coherent thought out of them, politically or otherwise. Watching that video, the first thing that comes to your mind is political motivation? Do you see what he's saying? It makes no sense at all, it doesn't even resemble an argument. Watching those videos made me think I was peering into the mind of someone completely deranged, not that he was motivated politically.

"You can create new currencies, therefore you can create a third currency."

"You can new languages, therefore you can create a third language."

These are not political arguments, these are the rantings of a lunatic.

I agree, but it felt to me like there was an underlying theme of politics throughout the whole thing. Like I said...he's Alex Jones-crazy. His rant about being called a terrorist in particular I thought could be seen as evidence that this is likely to be political. Add that to the fact that Giffords announced in advance where she'd be holding a political meeting, and I'd definitely place my bets on this being politically motivated. I have no earthly idea how me thinking that is "almost as twisted" as what he did.

He shot a dozen people.
I think he might be motivated by his crazy political views.
Somehow I'm almost as twisted as he is. Okay then.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

For some, logic seems to go out the window (not that it was ever there in the first place) when they are trying hard to be clever. This "sitcom" is a good example of that.

Rhazakna

so your saying it would be illogical to deduce that the shooting of a politician at a political rally... might be evidence of a politically motivated shooting?

guess im illogical then.

No, it is illogical to assume that a shooting was politically motivated, when there is no evidence to suggest that. There's nothing wrong with investigating political motivations, but saying it's obviously politically motivated, because a politician was shot, is indeed illogical. It assumes that there is no other reason for a politician to be shot, and that there is no other motivation besides a political one.

Reagan was shot because a crazy guy saw Taxi Driver too many times for god's sake.

im not saying its politically motivated... merely that there is evidence it might be. Evidence is only pieces of a puzzle that lead to a conclusion. The victims occupation and the setting of the murder are most certainly pieces of that puzzle.

If i find your fingerprint at a crime scene... thats evidence... even if you had nothing to do with the crime. The evidence may be dismissed at a later time as other evidence comes into the picture (like you have an alibi) but its still evidence.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

[QUOTE="JML897"]

Unless I interpreted his youtube video incorrectly, he made it sound like it was politically motivated.

JML897

I watched all of his youtube videos, and couldn't get one coherent thought out of them, politically or otherwise. Watching that video, the first thing that comes to your mind is political motivation? Do you see what he's saying? It makes no sense at all, it doesn't even resemble an argument. Watching those videos made me think I was peering into the mind of someone completely deranged, not that he was motivated politically.

"You can create new currencies, therefore you can create a third currency."

"You can new languages, therefore you can create a third language."

These are not political arguments, these are the rantings of a lunatic.

I agree, but it felt to me like there was an underlying theme of politics throughout the whole thing. Like I said...he's Alex Jones-crazy. His rant about being called a terrorist in particular I thought could be seen as evidence that this is likely to be political. Add that to the fact that Giffords announced in advance where she'd be holding a political meeting, and if I'd definitely place my bets on this being politically motivated. I have no earthly idea how me thinking that is "almost as twisted" as what he did.

He shot a dozen people.
I think he might be motivated by his crazy political views.
Somehow I'm almost as twisted as he is. Okay then.

I never said people who think it was politically motivated were twisted, I said people who wanted it to be politically motivated are twisted. And I admit, that in retrospect, saying it was almost as twisted as the murders was over-the-top and hyperbolic, but people who want to use something like this to smear the other side, before there's even any evidence piss me off.

This guy doesn't sound like Alex Jones at all. Jones makes money off of people's fears and paranoia. He knows exactly what he's doing, he's not crazy and he's a very shrewd business man. He also sounds nothing like this guy. As nutty as Jones can be, this guy makes him sound like an economist/political scientist/historian all in one.

His rantings on youtube barely seem coherent at all, even if there was a political undertone, I think his videos give more credence to the idea that he was just a nut.

any death is tragic and this is no exception. what really makes me mad though, was that a 9 year old girl got killed by the guy who did it :(

i hope he gets whats coming to him

my friend works for her kidna scary

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

so your saying it would be illogical to deduce that the shooting of a politician at a political rally... might be evidence of a politically motivated shooting?

guess im illogical then.

markinthedark

No, it is illogical to assume that a shooting was politically motivated, when there is no evidence to suggest that. There's nothing wrong with investigating political motivations, but saying it's obviously politically motivated, because a politician was shot, is indeed illogical. It assumes that there is no other reason for a politician to be shot, and that there is no other motivation besides a political one.

Reagan was shot because a crazy guy saw Taxi Driver too many times for god's sake.

im not saying its politically motivated... merely that there is evidence it might be. Evidence is only pieces of a puzzle that lead to a conclusion. The victims occupation and the setting of the murder are most certainly pieces of that puzzle.

If i find your fingerprint at a crime scene... thats evidence... even if you had nothing to do with the crime. The evidence may be dismissed at a later time as other evidence comes into the picture (like you have an alibi) but its still evidence.

A politician being shot is not in and of itself evidence of a politically motivated murder, particularly considering she was not the only person shot. Do you not understand this? The crime itself is not evidence of the crime's motivation, and it is bad logic to say that. It does not follow, so it is not logical.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

No, it is illogical to assume that a shooting was politically motivated, when there is no evidence to suggest that. There's nothing wrong with investigating political motivations, but saying it's obviously politically motivated, because a politician was shot, is indeed illogical. It assumes that there is no other reason for a politician to be shot, and that there is no other motivation besides a political one.

Reagan was shot because a crazy guy saw Taxi Driver too many times for god's sake.

Rhazakna

im not saying its politically motivated... merely that there is evidence it might be. Evidence is only pieces of a puzzle that lead to a conclusion. The victims occupation and the setting of the murder are most certainly pieces of that puzzle.

If i find your fingerprint at a crime scene... thats evidence... even if you had nothing to do with the crime. The evidence may be dismissed at a later time as other evidence comes into the picture (like you have an alibi) but its still evidence.

A politician being shot is not in and of itself evidence of a politically motivated murder, particularly considering she was not the only person shot. Do you not understand this? The crime itself is not evidence of the crime's motivation, and it is bad logic to say that. It does not follow, so it is not logical.

let me ask you this... do you think its more likely she was shot for political reasons... or for cheating at a poker game? if you consider one scenario more likely than the other... why is that?

if you are saying there is no evidence of it being politically motivated, then in your eyes the 2 scenarios must be equally likely.

If his youtube channel is anything to go off of, this had little to do with politics and a lot to do with insanity.supercubedude64

[QUOTE="GodzillavsXenu"]

What I find amazing is that so many people didn't seem to have a problem with the escalated BS john wayne talk coming from the right and the tea party, regardless of this incident, because you all know full well this could turn out to just be a psycho with his own motivations that have nothing to do with right versus left. Silent bob's post is exactly what I am talking about. How on earth did we get to live in a country where a political party thinks it's okay to campaign on guns and threats of violence, and complete lies about this country having been founded as a Christian nation? It's like we have regressed to the Reagan - Chritian televangelist era, only now we have politicians who routinely throw out the most paranoid and most harmful rhetoric imagineable, along with this proud and stupid mentality - anti science, anti education, anti cosmopolitan. It's like some people are so frightened by change and historical truth that they want to stampede back to the dark ages. And why is it okay to use gun and shooting metaphors so clearly when talking about political opposition? And the rancor, the nastiness is just frightening, like the signs that read "Bury the Health Care Bill with Kennedy." Who the hell are these people? And with this kind of moronic vitriol out there, will it really be all that surprising when something does happen that is motivated by all this blind hate?

Unknownmuncher

Repectfully, you fail at understanding at what I wrote. Please show me exactly where I said there was a correlation with this climate I described and this specific event. How on earth did you miss my very first sentence? Also, notice the last sentence. "... when something DOES happen...." You were in a bit too much of a hurry to disagree, in my opinion.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

im not saying its politically motivated... merely that there is evidence it might be. Evidence is only pieces of a puzzle that lead to a conclusion. The victims occupation and the setting of the murder are most certainly pieces of that puzzle.

If i find your fingerprint at a crime scene... thats evidence... even if you had nothing to do with the crime. The evidence may be dismissed at a later time as other evidence comes into the picture (like you have an alibi) but its still evidence.

markinthedark

A politician being shot is not in and of itself evidence of a politically motivated murder, particularly considering she was not the only person shot. Do you not understand this? The crime itself is not evidence of the crime's motivation, and it is bad logic to say that. It does not follow, so it is not logical.

let me ask you this... do you think its more likely she was shot for political reasons... or for cheating at a poker game? if you consider one scenario more likely than the other... why is that?

if you are saying there is no evidence of it being politically motivated, then in your eyes the 2 scenarios must be equally likely.

No, you're taking into account the context of the events. The context makes it reasonable to look into political motivations, but the attempted-murder itself is not evidence of the motivation behind the murder, and you have not explained how that follows. By that logic, every time a politician, or corporate head or public figure is shot, the crime itself is the evidence for motivation. You must see how that doesn't follow.

The context of the events may lead people in certain directions, but that is not evidence in itself.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

A politician being shot is not in and of itself evidence of a politically motivated murder, particularly considering she was not the only person shot. Do you not understand this? The crime itself is not evidence of the crime's motivation, and it is bad logic to say that. It does not follow, so it is not logical.

Rhazakna

let me ask you this... do you think its more likely she was shot for political reasons... or for cheating at a poker game? if you consider one scenario more likely than the other... why is that?

if you are saying there is no evidence of it being politically motivated, then in your eyes the 2 scenarios must be equally likely.

No, you're taking into account the context of the events. The context makes it reasonable to look into political motivations, but the attempted-murder itself is not evidence of the motivation behind the murder, and you have not explained how that follows. By that logic, every time a politician, or corporate head or public figure is shot, the crime itself is the evidence for motivation. You must see how that doesn't follow.

The context of the events may lead people in certain directions, but that is not evidence in itself.

So would you disagree with this statement, "there is more evidence that the attempted murder was politically motivated than gambling related?"

and evidence is what leads people in certain directions...

evidence

n.

1.A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment:

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

let me ask you this... do you think its more likely she was shot for political reasons... or for cheating at a poker game? if you consider one scenario more likely than the other... why is that?

if you are saying there is no evidence of it being politically motivated, then in your eyes the 2 scenarios must be equally likely.

markinthedark

No, you're taking into account the context of the events. The context makes it reasonable to look into political motivations, but the attempted-murder itself is not evidence of the motivation behind the murder, and you have not explained how that follows. By that logic, every time a politician, or corporate head or public figure is shot, the crime itself is the evidence for motivation. You must see how that doesn't follow.

The context of the events may lead people in certain directions, but that is not evidence in itself.

So would you disagree with this statement, "there is more evidence that the attempted murder was politically motivated than gambling related?"

and evidence is what leads people in certain directions...

evidence

n.

1.A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment:

No, I would agree that the context of the crime makes looking in to political motivations more rational than gambling. There is still no positive evidence regarding the motivation of the individual. The evidence we have, such as his youtube channel, does not seem to suggest a political motivation

Picture this: A wife, famous for having affairs, is brutally murdered in her home with no forced entry. By your logic, the crime itself is evidence that the husband did it, and of his motivations, but this is incorrect. The context of the crime makes looking into the husband a reasonable way to go, but the crime itself is not evidence of his guilt or his possible motivations.

From everything I've read so far, it looks as though this guy is just unhinged, with favorite books including Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto. So there is no good reason to start blaming this on Palin, or any other political/news figure right now. Speculation is not the same as jumping to conclusions, and anyone who is saying that this has to be politically motivated isn't keeping any options open. Right now, speculate, but don't talk as though you know what drove this guy. No one does, and probably never will, but let us all hope he's brought to justice by a jury of his peers in a courtroom.MAILER_DAEMON

Just to clarify, I'm not blaming Palin when I say she's a fool. I'm just saying that she's a fool for putting up that stupid gun target thing.

[QUOTE="Unknownmuncher"][QUOTE="GodzillavsXenu"]

What I find amazing is that so many people didn't seem to have a problem with the escalated BS john wayne talk coming from the right and the tea party, regardless of this incident, because you all know full well this could turn out to just be a psycho with his own motivations that have nothing to do with right versus left. Silent bob's post is exactly what I am talking about. How on earth did we get to live in a country where a political party thinks it's okay to campaign on guns and threats of violence, and complete lies about this country having been founded as a Christian nation? It's like we have regressed to the Reagan - Chritian televangelist era, only now we have politicians who routinely throw out the most paranoid and most harmful rhetoric imagineable, along with this proud and stupid mentality - anti science, anti education, anti cosmopolitan. It's like some people are so frightened by change and historical truth that they want to stampede back to the dark ages. And why is it okay to use gun and shooting metaphors so clearly when talking about political opposition? And the rancor, the nastiness is just frightening, like the signs that read "Bury the Health Care Bill with Kennedy." Who the hell are these people? And with this kind of moronic vitriol out there, will it really be all that surprising when something does happen that is motivated by all this blind hate?

GodzillavsXenu

Repectfully, you fail at understanding at what I wrote. Please show me exactly where I said there was a correlation with this climate I described and this specific event. How on earth did you miss my very first sentence? Also, notice the last sentence. "... when something DOES happen...." You were in a bit too much of a hurry to disagree, in my opinion.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

No, you're taking into account the context of the events. The context makes it reasonable to look into political motivations, but the attempted-murder itself is not evidence of the motivation behind the murder, and you have not explained how that follows. By that logic, every time a politician, or corporate head or public figure is shot, the crime itself is the evidence for motivation. You must see how that doesn't follow.

The context of the events may lead people in certain directions, but that is not evidence in itself.

Rhazakna

So would you disagree with this statement, "there is more evidence that the attempted murder was politically motivated than gambling related?"

and evidence is what leads people in certain directions...

evidence

n.

1.A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment:

No, I would agree that the context of the crime makes looking in to political motivations more rational than gambling. There is still no positive evidence regarding the motivation of the individual. The evidence we have, such as his youtube channel, does not seem to suggest a political motivation

Picture this: A wife, famous for having affairs, is brutally murdered in her home with no forced entry. By your logic, the crime itself is evidence that the husband did it, and of his motivations, but this is incorrect. The context of the crime makes looking into the husband a reasonable way to go, but the crime itself is not evidence of his guilt or his possible motivations.

why would the context make looking into the crime one way more reasonable than another way? is the context of the crime evidence used in drawing that conclusion? i think so.

If you were prosecuting the case, would you leave the part about his wife having an affair out, because its not evidence.... or would you use that information as evidence of his guilt when addressing the jury?

how bout you give me an example of what you consider evidence...

EDIT: lets just put it this way, would knowing the context of a murder help you catch the killer? if your answer is yes.... then that information would be a thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgement.... which is the very definition of evidence.

It's sad that theleft seems to almost jump with glee when something tragic like this happens because they see an opportunity to mine it for political capital, rather than being concerned about the victims involved. I mean seriously, if your first reaction to such an event is to think of Palin, Beck, or the Tea Party, then something is clearly wrong with you.

GreySeal9, just wanted to let you know my respect for you has gone up for not going that route.

[QUOTE="GodzillavsXenu"]

[QUOTE="Unknownmuncher"] according to his youtube videos, he doesnt believe in god and wants god out of government... so you fail in drawing a correlationUnknownmuncher

Repectfully, you fail at understanding at what I wrote. Please show me exactly where I said there was a correlation with this climate I described and this specific event. How on earth did you miss my very first sentence? Also, notice the last sentence. "... when something DOES happen...." You were in a bit too much of a hurry to disagree, in my opinion.

Oh please... oh mighty decider of what others can post. By contrast, your response really adds a lot to the thread. Good job. And I like how you managed to ignore that your first response was completely wrong. Good self preservation skills you got there. See ya.

It's sad that theleft seems to almost jump with glee when something tragic like this happens because they see an opportunity to mine it for political capital, rather than being concerned about the victims involved. I mean seriously, if your first reaction to such an event is to think of Palin, Beck, or the Tea Party, then something is clearly wrong with you.

GreySeal9, just wanted to let you know my respect for you has gone up for not going that route.

peaceful_anger

Well, thanks, but the right politicizes tragic events too, and not everybody on the left is trying to politicize this.

But I agree that ones that are have major issues.

[QUOTE="Unknownmuncher"][QUOTE="GodzillavsXenu"]

Repectfully, you fail at understanding at what I wrote. Please show me exactly where I said there was a correlation with this climate I described and this specific event. How on earth did you miss my very first sentence? Also, notice the last sentence. "... when something DOES happen...." You were in a bit too much of a hurry to disagree, in my opinion.

GodzillavsXenu

Oh please... oh mighty decider of what others can post. By contrast, your response really adds a lot to the thread. Good job. And I like how you managed to ignore that your first response was completely wrong. Good self preservation skills you got there. See ya.

I was absolutely flabbergasted to discover this. :shock:

It's an authentic comment taken from a News Vine forum---attached to MSNBC's coverage of the story---in which the writer clearly hints that he approves of the attack and hopes for more of the same. (Look for it here if you need confirmation.)

I know I would be looking over my shoulder with a worried look these days ... if I was among the judges and politicians who are relentlessly attacking America by shoving the "civil rights" of homosexuals down the throats of our military, shoving butchers of unborn children upon our pregnant daughters, shoving an incredibly expensive "healthcare reform" bill upon people who are stuggling to pay their monthly heat bill, shoving a Ground Zero mosque into the faces of the victims' families, and shoving the "civil rights" of illegal immigrants upon our legal American citizens - to mention only a few of the many betrayals liberal judges and politicians have inflicted on America. The vast majority of Americans are fed-up with being force-fed agendas which we now understand are designed to destroy America - the country for which millions (including Jared Lee Loughner) have fought in uniform.

Clear Prop

Dear God. How did it come to this?

Learn about this from my grandparents who lives close to that Safeways. Very horrible and a 9 year old got killed.

[QUOTE="GodzillavsXenu"]

[QUOTE="Unknownmuncher"] So if your not making a correlation then i guess you fail at posting relevant contributions. This guys beliefs have nothing to do with what the tea party or democrats or any major political party's stance. Unknownmuncher

Oh please... oh mighty decider of what others can post. By contrast, your response really adds a lot to the thread. Good job. And I like how you managed to ignore that your first response was completely wrong. Good self preservation skills you got there. See ya.

You could answer your own questions by simply reading, and looking past whatever button of yours that I pressed. Your first response to me was to point out how I'd failed at making a correlation, I then specifically pointed out to you - READ - that I had attempted to do no such thing. In fact I cited two sentences, at the beginning and end of what I wrote, that clearly said otherwise. I asked you to show me exactly where I had made a correlation between the hateful environment I described and this specific incident. Instead, you then responded by telling me, essentially, that I should not have posted at all. I sense there is no reasoning with you, and you have an inflated sense of self importance if you think you can tell others what they should post and what they should not. You also somehow managed to completely miss that I was also responding to a post by silent bob, despite my mentioning him by name, in the very comment you first responded to. I'm sorry "Unknownmuncher" - you are wasting my time. Write all you want, I will just ignore anything I see from you from now on.

Did they get the guy who did it?

He needs to be dealt with...

It's one thing to protest against politics you don't like, and another to kill a politican.

Wasdie

I agree, but instead of killing, I would torture MUAHAHAHA :evil:

I was absolutely flabbergasted to discover this. :shock:

It's an authentic comment taken from a News Vine forum---attached to MSNBC's coverage of the story---in which the writer clearly hints that he approves of the attack and hopes for more of the same. (Look for it here if you need confirmation.)

[QUOTE="Clear Prop"]

I know I would be looking over my shoulder with a worried look these days ... if I was among the judges and politicians who are relentlessly attacking America by shoving the "civil rights" of homosexuals down the throats of our military, shoving butchers of unborn children upon our pregnant daughters, shoving an incredibly expensive "healthcare reform" bill upon people who are stuggling to pay their monthly heat bill, shoving a Ground Zero mosque into the faces of the victims' families, and shoving the "civil rights" of illegal immigrants upon our legal American citizens - to mention only a few of the many betrayals liberal judges and politicians have inflicted on America. The vast majority of Americans are fed-up with being force-fed agendas which we now understand are designed to destroy America - the country for which millions (including Jared Lee Loughner) have fought in uniform.

Stesilaus

Dear God. How did it come to this?

Wow WTF, I probably disagree with about everything the Rep. stands for, but I disagree with about everyone I know. I don't go killing people I don't agree with or even don't like.

[QUOTE="Unknownmuncher"][QUOTE="GodzillavsXenu"]

Oh please... oh mighty decider of what others can post. By contrast, your response really adds a lot to the thread. Good job. And I like how you managed to ignore that your first response was completely wrong. Good self preservation skills you got there. See ya.

GodzillavsXenu

You could answer your own questions by simply reading, and looking past whatever button of yours that I pressed. Your first response to me was to point out how I'd failed at making a correlation, I then specifically pointed out to you - READ - that I had done no such thing. I asked you to show me exactly where I had made a correlation between the hateful environment I described and this specific incident - I also pointed out how I was responding too to what silent bob has posted. Instead, you then responded by telling me, essentially, that I should not have posted at all. I sense there is no reasoning with you, and you have have an inflated sense of self importance in telling others what they should post and should not. I'm sorry "Unknownmuncher" - you are wasting my time. Write all you want, I will just ignore anything I see from you from now on.

I really hope this gunmen isn't some crazed Tea party far right wing nut job .Sp4rtan_3

Doubtful, said he wouldn't trust in God.:P

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Did they get the guy who did it?

He needs to be dealt with...

It's one thing to protest against politics you don't like, and another to kill a politican.

parkurtommo

I agree, but instead of killing, I would torture MUAHAHAHA :evil:

[QUOTE="Unknownmuncher"][QUOTE="GodzillavsXenu"]

You could answer your own questions by simply reading, and looking past whatever button of yours that I pressed. Your first response to me was to point out how I'd failed at making a correlation, I then specifically pointed out to you - READ - that I had done no such thing. I asked you to show me exactly where I had made a correlation between the hateful environment I described and this specific incident - I also pointed out how I was responding too to what silent bob has posted. Instead, you then responded by telling me, essentially, that I should not have posted at all. I sense there is no reasoning with you, and you have have an inflated sense of self importance in telling others what they should post and should not. I'm sorry "Unknownmuncher" - you are wasting my time. Write all you want, I will just ignore anything I see from you from now on.

GodzillavsXenu

[QUOTE="GodzillavsXenu"]

[QUOTE="Unknownmuncher"] how exactly is my first post wrong? did you happen to go on his youtube page?Unknownmuncher

You could answer your own questions by simply reading, and looking past whatever button of yours that I pressed. Your first response to me was to point out how I'd failed at making a correlation, I then specifically pointed out to you - READ - that I had done no such thing. I asked you to show me exactly where I had made a correlation between the hateful environment I described and this specific incident - I also pointed out how I was responding too to what silent bob has posted. Instead, you then responded by telling me, essentially, that I should not have posted at all. I sense there is no reasoning with you, and you have have an inflated sense of self importance in telling others what they should post and should not. I'm sorry "Unknownmuncher" - you are wasting my time. Write all you want, I will just ignore anything I see from you from now on.

No matter what the political affiliation of this individual, what he did was very distrubing. After watching the videos of him that he posted on Youtube, he appears to be prettyinsane.

His ramblings were even worse than Glen Beck. Below is a link that contains info about this psycho and has three videos of text he wrote prior to going on his delusional rampage:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/jared-lee-loughner-gabrielle-giffords-shooter_n_806243.html

Lol @ the morans suggesting Palin/Tea Party influenced this. You have to do a bit more than pull ideas out of your ass before you even suggest that someone 'inspired' or 'influenced' a murder.

Besides the only clues we have point to him being left-wing.

tp://www.businessinsider.com/woman-who-says-she-went-to-school-with-alleged-shooter-says-he-met-giffords-in-2007-2011-1#ixzz1AUP3tpq2

Not that I think that really has much to do with it.

His Youtube vids suggest he's schizophrenic....so there you go....

Anyway, I was half expecting Bush to be blamed for this. -_-

It's sad that theleft seems to almost jump with glee when something tragic like this happens because they see an opportunity to mine it for political capital, rather than being concerned about the victims involved. I mean seriously, if your first reaction to such an event is to think of Palin, Beck, or the Tea Party, then something is clearly wrong with you.

GreySeal9, just wanted to let you know my respect for you has gone up for not going that route.

peaceful_anger

I think the left is all over this because alot of the vitriol coming from right-wing media preaches revolution. In fact, Sarah Palin herself had gun targets pointed at democrat representatives.

Furthermore, it is the right that advocated gun ownership for all, regardless of any reasoning.

Something similar to this happened in Pittsburgh over a year ago when a man shot police officers. The man that fired on the police officer was a Glen Beck fan.

Be that as it may, this individual was seriously distrurbed.

Lol @ the morans suggesting Palin/Tea Party influenced this. You have to do a bit more than pull ideas out of your ass before you even suggest that someone 'inspired' or 'influenced' a murder.

Besides the only clues we have point to him being left-wing.

tp://www.businessinsider.com/woman-who-says-she-went-to-school-with-alleged-shooter-says-he-met-giffords-in-2007-2011-1#ixzz1AUP3tpq2

Not that I think that really has much to do with it.

His Youtube vids suggest he's schizophrenic....so there you go....

Anyway, I was half expecting Bush to be blamed for this. -_-

Storm_Marine

A twitter fromanobody. Lets wait until the facts come out. It doesn't sound very logical that a liberal would shoot a liberal democrat, does it?

Thank God she's alive. What's her condition?Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

So would you disagree with this statement, "there is more evidence that the attempted murder was politically motivated than gambling related?"

and evidence is what leads people in certain directions...

evidence

n.

1.A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment:

markinthedark

No, I would agree that the context of the crime makes looking in to political motivations more rational than gambling. There is still no positive evidence regarding the motivation of the individual. The evidence we have, such as his youtube channel, does not seem to suggest a political motivation

Picture this: A wife, famous for having affairs, is brutally murdered in her home with no forced entry. By your logic, the crime itself is evidence that the husband did it, and of his motivations, but this is incorrect. The context of the crime makes looking into the husband a reasonable way to go, but the crime itself is not evidence of his guilt or his possible motivations.

why would the context make looking into the crime one way more reasonable than another way? is the context of the crime evidence used in drawing that conclusion? i think so.

If you were prosecuting the case, would you leave the part about his wife having an affair out, because its not evidence.... or would you use that information as evidence of his guilt when addressing the jury?

how bout you give me an example of what you consider evidence...

EDIT: lets just put it this way, would knowing the context of a murder help you catch the killer? if your answer is yes.... then that information would be a thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgement.... which is the very definition of evidence.

This debate is getting muddled. Let me try to break it down, and see if I'm confused anywhere.

Your claim: a politician being shot is, in and of itself, evidence of a politically motivated assassination.

My claim: that does not follow, the crime is not evidence of the motivation of the perpetrator in and of itself. By that logic, all killings of important people are in and of themselves, evidence of the perps motivation.

Your claim: the fact that it is reasonable to look into political motivations to explain this crime is evidence of political motivation.

My claim: again, that does not follow. Leading the investigation in that direction may be reasonable, given the context, but it does not follow that therefore the motivations of the suspect can be known.

Is this about right, or have I missed something? Honest question.

I saw the headline and immediately thought, "Teabagger gone wild". I heard about Palin's "gun sights" map with Giffords on it as well as other conspiracies to get her out of office and I was almost sure that right-wing extremists influenced the shooter.

However, I read into it more and it turns out that this guy was obviously schizophrenic and mentally unstable. I wouldn't necessarily point fingers to Palin and other teabaggers, but I know that through this, hopefully Palin can choose her words more carefully the next time she wants to conspire against democrats. This event will also surely impact future interactions between congressmen/women and their constituents. They will most likely no longer leave their door wide open like they used to because of a risk of a tragedy like this one.

A sad day, indeed for this nation. :(

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]Thank God she's alive. What's her condition?Unknownmuncher

I saw the headline and immediately thought, "Teabagger gone wild". I heard about Palin's "gun sights" map with Giffords on it as well as other conspiracies to get her out of office and I was almost sure that right-wing extremists influenced the shooter.

However, I read into it more and it turns out that this guy was obviously schizophrenic and mentally unstable. I wouldn't necessarily point fingers to Palin and other teabaggers, but I know that through this, hopefully Palin can choose her words more carefully the next time she wants to conspire against democrats. This event will also surely impact future interactions between congressmen/women and their constituents. They will most likely no longer leave their door wide open like they used to because of a risk of a tragedy like this one.

A sad day, indeed for this nation. :(

GodofBigMacs

That seemed to be the collective thought from leftists. Despite the fact that Tea Parties haven't been particularly violent, left wing websites were drooling over the idea that some tea partier shot a democrat. Such a reaction really exposes the ugliness of American politics.

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

Lol @ the morans suggesting Palin/Tea Party influenced this. You have to do a bit more than pull ideas out of your ass before you even suggest that someone 'inspired' or 'influenced' a murder.

Besides the only clues we have point to him being left-wing.

tp://www.businessinsider.com/woman-who-says-she-went-to-school-with-alleged-shooter-says-he-met-giffords-in-2007-2011-1#ixzz1AUP3tpq2

Not that I think that really has much to do with it.

His Youtube vids suggest he's schizophrenic....so there you go....

Anyway, I was half expecting Bush to be blamed for this. -_-

CheckMate

A twitter fromanobody. Lets wait until the facts come out. It doesn't sound very logical that a liberal would shoot a liberal democrat, does it?

It does if he's schizophrenic or got serious 'issues'. >_>

[QUOTE="CheckMate"]

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

Lol @ the morans suggesting Palin/Tea Party influenced this. You have to do a bit more than pull ideas out of your ass before you even suggest that someone 'inspired' or 'influenced' a murder.

Besides the only clues we have point to him being left-wing.

tp://www.businessinsider.com/woman-who-says-she-went-to-school-with-alleged-shooter-says-he-met-giffords-in-2007-2011-1#ixzz1AUP3tpq2

Not that I think that really has much to do with it.

His Youtube vids suggest he's schizophrenic....so there you go....

Anyway, I was half expecting Bush to be blamed for this. -_-

Storm_Marine

A twitter fromanobody. Lets wait until the facts come out. It doesn't sound very logical that a liberal would shoot a liberal democrat, does it?

It does if he's schizophrenic or got serious 'issues'. >_>

but like i said that's all we have to go by atm.

[QUOTE="Storm_Marine"]

Lol @ the morans suggesting Palin/Tea Party influenced this. You have to do a bit more than pull ideas out of your ass before you even suggest that someone 'inspired' or 'influenced' a murder.

Besides the only clues we have point to him being left-wing.

tp://www.businessinsider.com/woman-who-says-she-went-to-school-with-alleged-shooter-says-he-met-giffords-in-2007-2011-1#ixzz1AUP3tpq2

Not that I think that really has much to do with it.

His Youtube vids suggest he's schizophrenic....so there you go....

Anyway, I was half expecting Bush to be blamed for this. -_-

CheckMate

A twitter fromanobody. Lets wait until the facts come out. It doesn't sound very logical that a liberal would shoot a liberal democrat, does it?

A twitter fromanobody. Lets wait until the facts come out. It doesn't sound very logical that a liberal would shoot a liberal democrat, does it?

CheckMate

Actually, it could be quite logical. He may think she isn't following the liberal agenda like she should and 'wants to make an example' or to show other liberal leaders 'this is what happens if you don't follow our agenda'.

Or it could be one issue they don't agree with that is sticking in his craw.

Or maybe in some sick way if he thinks he eliminates her, someone he favors will take her place.