Do You Consider Yourself To Be A Good Person? Poll.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Expelled is so full of crap... have you seen the quote mining it does? :lol: They took Darwin's quote:

With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil.

And got this:

With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. Hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

 

Funky_Llama

Anyway... the answer is obvious. A documentary - and I use the term loosely - that uses underhanded tactics like that is not reliable as a source. Anyone who cites it seriously is saying a lot about what qualifies as evidence for them.

You gotta love those that criticize things they haven't seen. Nothing like arguing from a lack of knowledge. Expelled was great, especially when Dawkins got all red faced and tongue tied when asked about the origin of life. It was priceless. 

Yeah, exactly. God apparently created us with urges like this, then forbade them as sin, thus commanding humans to do the impossible: to simply not have a natural, irrepressible urge.Funky_Llama

I love how we're supposed to get down on our knees and say sorry for doing something completely natural.  

...That's very fascinating. Hey, would you mind looking at this quote?:) It's quite interesting

"For the last 18 months or so I've been kicking around non-evolutionary or even anti-evoluitonary ideas. For over 20 years I had thought I was working on evolution in some way. One morning I woke up and something had happened in the night, and it struck me that I had been working on this stuff for more than 20 years, and there was not one thing I knew about it. It's quite a shock to learn that one can be misled for so long.
For the last few weeks I've tried putting a simple question to various people and groups: Can you tell me anything you know about evolution? Any one thing ...that is true? I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very prestigious body of evolutionists, and all I got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said, 'I do know one thing--it ought not to be taught in high school.'"
http://creationanswers.net/geology/CR3FOSSL.HTM

Crushmaster

was this the same guy that recorded when Einstein proved that a lack of God was Evil?

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]:lol: What a load of crap. I'm a murderer and an adulterer? The Bible never ceases to amaze me with just how full of idiocy it is. Dark_Knight6

I really don't get the "adultery" part. You cannot commit adultery without being in a relationship. Not only that but having thoughts like those is just human nature.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Your perspective on God's plan for humanity is incorrect.t . You are assuming that there are some that are good people that meet God's tandards for righteousness and therfore do not deserve to be punished. I challenge you to provide proof of any single person, from the past or living today other than Jesus Christ, that has met all of God' standards of righteousness. All humans are sinners. We have a sin nature. Not one of us can meet God's standards for righteousness. We are unable to do it. God is holy, just, and righteous. He would not be holy if He allowed sin into His presence. He would not be just if He did not punish sin. Sin is failing to meet God' standard of righteousness. We are all on a superhighway to destruction and can do nothing to save ourselves. But God loves us. He loves us so much tht he was willing to suffer and die to pay the price of our sins. He created an exit ramp on that highway to destruction in Christ. He will not force us to take that exit ramp. He gives us a free will to choose to stay on that superhighway to destruction if we choose. He would like us to take the exit ramp to salvation in Christ, but He will not force us to. That is our choice and our choice alone. Being a just God, He will respect our choice. If we choose the exit ramp and repent of our sinful ways, confess our sins to Him, and put out faith and trust in Christ, we will take that exit ramp and be restored to fellowship with Him, both in this world and in eternity.  

Frattracide

I never offered a perspective on god or his plan for humanity. I never made an assumption about anybodies ability to meet god's standard. In fact, I said the exact opposite.

Punishing somebody for something they did not do is unjust. One of the major tenets of the Christian religion is original sin. That is, god condemns you to hell because you are a part of a lineage that sinned. That is unjust, so god is not just. God has advocated genocide. That is not righteous, so god is not righteous. 

Aside from that, your little testimonial contains some huge flaws. I ask: "If god loves us, then why create a place of eternal torture?" "If god is omnipresent, how can we, and our sin, be separated from him in the first place?"  

At any rate, this is all academic. As I am sure you have by now realized, I don't even except the existence of your god.  

I see you read and understood what I wrote, NOT! Did you miss the part about all of us being sinners? Are you sinless?

I see you read and understood what I wrote, NOT! Did you miss the part about all of us being sinners? Are you sinless?

blackregiment

As I have stated before, I reject the christian ethic.  

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
Hmm, interesting. Have you ever seen the documentary?
Also, you didn't answer the question.blackregiment

Anyway... the answer is obvious. A documentary - and I use the term loosely - that uses underhanded tactics like that is not reliable as a source. Anyone who cites it seriously is saying a lot about what qualifies as evidence for them.

You gotta love those that criticize things they haven't seen. Nothing like arguing from a lack of knowledge. Expelled was great, especially when Dawkins got all red faced and tongue tied when asked about the origin of life. It was priceless. 

Yes, it is our nature. But our nature is a fallen one; a sinful nature. It has been that way when Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the garden of Eden and ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Ever since then, our nature has been sinful.Crushmaster

But considering God is all-powerfull, why didn't he just change that?  It would make more sense than making, what he would consider, to be sinners.  

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]
No, I didn't, for pretty much the same reason that I wouldn't give serious attention to http://www.timecube.com/.

Anyway... the answer is obvious. A documentary - and I use the term loosely - that uses underhanded tactics like that is not reliable as a source. Anyone who cites it seriously is saying a lot about what qualifies as evidence for them. Crushmaster

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
Yes, it is our nature. But our nature is a fallen one; a sinful nature. It has been that way when Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the garden of Eden and ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Ever since then, our nature has been sinful.Dark_Knight6

But considering God is all-powerfull, why didn't he just change that?  It would make more sense than making, what he would consider, to be sinners.  

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
Yes, it is our nature. But our nature is a fallen one; a sinful nature. It has been that way when Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the garden of Eden and ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Ever since then, our nature has been sinful.Dark_Knight6

But considering God is all-powerfull, why didn't he just change that? It would make more sense than making, what he would consider, to be sinners.

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

But considering God is all-powerfull, why didn't he just change that?  It would make more sense than making, what he would consider, to be sinners.  

Funky_Llama

cue "God can't allow to have Sin in presence" and/or "free will." (to either or both posts)

Yes, He is All-Powerful. But mankind made their choice. Also, look at these verses: (Romans 5:8-12) - "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. {9} Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. {10} For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. {11} And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. {12} Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." Christ can save us from our sin, and bring us into fellowship with God!:) As it says, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."
We have all sinned. But Christ's blood can cover our sin, and save us from eternal damnation. Crushmaster

I really don't like the idea of getting down on my knees and asking for forgivness for something that is natural for me to do.  If God, didn't want me to think this way, he shouldn't have given me a natural desire to have sex.  

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
Yes, He is All-Powerful. But mankind made their choice. Also, look at these verses: (Romans 5:8-12) - "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. {9} Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. {10} For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. {11} And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. {12} Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." Christ can save us from our sin, and bring us into fellowship with God!:) As it says, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."
We have all sinned. But Christ's blood can cover our sin, and save us from eternal damnation. Dark_Knight6

I really don't like the idea of getting down on my knees and asking for forgivness for something that is natural for me to do. If God, didn't want me to think this way, he shouldn't have given me a natural desire to have sex.

Interesting conclusion. But by that logic, couldn't I use this analogy? Look: "But, officer, the person had money in their wallet. I wouldn't have stolen it if it wasn't there!"
We can justify anything if we think like that.Crushmaster

Difference is, I wouldn't be harming anyone else by having sex. 

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
Yes, He is All-Powerful. But mankind made their choice. Also, look at these verses: (Romans 5:8-12) - "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. {9} Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. {10} For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. {11} And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. {12} Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." Christ can save us from our sin, and bring us into fellowship with God!:) As it says, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."
We have all sinned. But Christ's blood can cover our sin, and save us from eternal damnation. Crushmaster

I really don't like the idea of getting down on my knees and asking for forgivness for something that is natural for me to do. If God, didn't want me to think this way, he shouldn't have given me a natural desire to have sex.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
Interesting conclusion. But by that logic, couldn't I use this analogy? Look: "But, officer, the person had money in their wallet. I wouldn't have stolen it if it wasn't there!"
We can justify anything if we think like that.Dark_Knight6

Difference is, I wouldn't be harming anyone else by having sex.

This video shows why Expelled is incredibly idiotic and that Ben Stein is a moron.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X8aifay678

Indeed? If you tell a little, small, white lie, that doesn't really hurt anyone, is that wrong?Crushmaster

There's a large difference between telling a lie and having sex. 

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
Indeed? If you tell a little, small, white lie, that doesn't really hurt anyone, is that wrong?Dark_Knight6

There's a large difference between telling a lie and having sex. 

Indeed there is. But both of them are sin, and both of them have consequences.Crushmaster

I guess that depends on who you're asking.  I don't see a single thing wrong with sex, as long as it's consensual and between loving partners.   

Indeed there is. But both of them are sin, and both of them have consequences.Crushmaster

the same concequence, as a matter of fact. because as we all know in order to have Justice every crime must have the highest possible punishment.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]Indeed there is. But both of them are sin, and both of them have consequences.Dark_Knight6

I guess that depends on who you're asking. I don't see a single thing wrong with sex, as long as it's consensual and between loving partners.

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
Interesting conclusion. But by that logic, couldn't I use this analogy? Look: "But, officer, the person had money in their wallet. I wouldn't have stolen it if it wasn't there!"
We can justify anything if we think like that.Crushmaster

Difference is, I wouldn't be harming anyone else by having sex.

...I am not going by my feelings when I say premarital sex is wrong. I am going by the Word of the Living God. I am afraid I can continue this discussion no further. This is something I'd rather not talk about.
But I do strongly urge you to see for yourself what God's Word has to say on this matter.
Have you gotten a Bible yet, Knight?:)Crushmaster

I understand that God doesn't like it, like many things.  And, no, I haven't gotten around to getting one, yet.  I meant to order one earlier in the week but never got around to it.  

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
...I am not going by my feelings when I say premarital sex is wrong. I am going by the Word of the Living God. I am afraid I can continue this discussion no further. This is something I'd rather not talk about.
But I do strongly urge you to see for yourself what God's Word has to say on this matter.
Have you gotten a Bible yet, Knight?:)Dark_Knight6

I understand that God doesn't like it, like many things.  And, no, I haven't gotten around to getting one, yet.  I meant to order one earlier in the week but never got around to it.  

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

You gotta love those that criticize things they haven't seen. Nothing like arguing from a lack of knowledge. Expelled was great, especially when Dawkins got all red faced and tongue tied when asked about the origin of life. It was priceless. 

Enosh88

this is the part where I lost all respect I might still had for you. Only someone with a very low IQ or a massive amount of ignorance can't see the idioticy that expelled is.

...I am not going by my feelings when I say premarital sex is wrong. I am going by the Word of the Living God. I am afraid I can continue this discussion no further. This is something I'd rather not talk about.
But I do strongly urge you to see for yourself what God's Word has to say on this matter.
Crushmaster

I'm sorry to hear that.:) If you don't want to buy one, you could always download a free one off the Internet. I can give you a link if you like.:)Crushmaster

I've got no problem buying one (they're cheap on Amazon, actually), it's just that I procrastinate.   That link would be cool, though.  Even if I ordered it tonight, I probably wouldn't get it until Tuesday or Wednesday.  

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]No, I didn't, for pretty much the same reason that I wouldn't give serious attention to www.timecube.com.

 

Anyway... the answer is obvious. A documentary - and I use the term loosely - that uses underhanded tactics like that is not reliable as a source. Anyone who cites it seriously is saying a lot about what qualifies as evidence for them.

Funky_Llama

You gotta love those that criticize things they haven't seen. Nothing like arguing from a lack of knowledge. Expelled was great, especially when Dawkins got all red faced and tongue tied when asked about the origin of life. It was priceless. 

Yes I have and the many of the hadiths as well. and have you ever read the complete Bible?

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]I'm sorry to hear that.:) If you don't want to buy one, you could always download a free one off the Internet. I can give you a link if you like.:)Dark_Knight6

I've got no problem buying one (they're cheap on Amazon, actually), it's just that I procrastinate.   That link would be cool, though.  Even if I ordered it tonight, I probably wouldn't get it until Tuesday or Wednesday.  

"Hormones" have nothing to do with this. What matters is that God's Word condemns premarital sex. It is immoral.Crushmaster

no actualy they do have a lot to do with it, ask any doctor.

OK, here it is: http://www.e-sword.net/downloads.htmlCrushmaster

Thanks.  I'll download it a little later.  Also, which version Bible would you recommend getting?  I was going to get the NIV.  

Wait so if you are a diffrent religion you go to hell since you don't accept Jesust Crist. Seems like God is not to merciful and forgiving these days is he. He wants you to accept Jesus more than God. WoW something does not sound right. Omni-Wrath

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]:lol: What a load of crap. I'm a murderer and an adulterer? The Bible never ceases to amaze me with just how full of idiocy it is. Funky_Llama

I really don't get the "adultery" part.  You cannot commit adultery without being in a relationship.  Not only that but having thoughts like those is just human nature.  

So are you admitting that you lack self-control? That you have no self-restraint?

Yeah, exactly. God apparently created us with urges like this, then forbade them as sin, thus commanding humans to do the impossible: to simply not have a natural, irrepressible urge.blackregiment

So are you admitting that you lack self-control? That you have no self-restraint?

Self-control only goes so far, especially with an urge as strong as that.  

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]:lol: What a load of crap. I'm a murderer and an adulterer? The Bible never ceases to amaze me with just how full of idiocy it is. Dark_Knight6

I really don't get the "adultery" part.  You cannot commit adultery without being in a relationship.  Not only that but having thoughts like those is just human nature.  

Perhaps you are having difficulty because you are using your standards of righteousness, not God's. God judges our righteousness by His standards, not ours. When we violate His standards, we sin against Him. Jesus said...

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

I see you read and understood what I wrote, NOT! Did you miss the part about all of us being sinners? Are you sinless?

Frattracide

As I have stated before, I reject the christian ethic.  

And as I have stated before, no one is forcing you to. God gave each of us a free will to choose to stay on that super highway and remain in our sins, or to take the exit in Christ and receive eternal salvation.  

So are you admitting that you lack self-control? That you have no self-restraint?

blackregiment

I think the fact you need restraint proves that you do not have a choice, or at least not a fair one.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]
Yes, it is our nature. But our nature is a fallen one; a sinful nature. It has been that way when Adam and Eve disobeyed God in the garden of Eden and ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Ever since then, our nature has been sinful.Dark_Knight6

But considering God is all-powerfull, why didn't he just change that?  It would make more sense than making, what he would consider, to be sinners.  

God did not create robots. He wants us to love and serve Him based on our free will choice. True love is not possible without a free will to choose to love or choose not to love. Are you suggesting that God should remove our free will?  

Perhaps you are having difficulty because you are using your standards of righteousness, not God's. God judges our righteousness by His standards, not ours. When we violate His standards, we sin against Him. Jesus said...

Mat 5:27  Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28  But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
blackregiment

Yeah, I guess I'm too understanding to use my own standards.  

God did not create robots. He wants us to love and serve Him based on our free will choice. True love is not possible without a free will to choose to love or choose not to love. Are you suggesting that God should remove our free will?  

blackregiment

If he wanted everyone to love him he should have provided a little more proof than a book.  

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]Indeed there is. But both of them are sin, and both of them have consequences.Dark_Knight6

I guess that depends on who you're asking.  I don't see a single thing wrong with sex, as long as it's consensual and between loving partners.   

It does not matter what anyone in this world thinks or says. What matters is that God's, the very God that we will stand before in judgement, standard of righteousness prohibits it. When we violate His standards of righteousness, we sin against Him. Being a righteous and just God, He must punish disobedience. When we bear our own sin, we cannot have fellowship with a holy God. To have fellowship with Him, the penalty for our sins must be paid. Christ paid that price for those that repent and put their faith and trust in Him.   

It does not matter what anyone in this world thinks or says. What matters is that God's, the very God that we will stand before in judgement, standard of righteousness prohibits it. When we violate His standards of righteousness, we sin against Him. Being a righteous and just God, He must punish disobedience. When we bear our own sin, we cannot have fellowship with a holy God. To have fellowship with Him, the penalty for our sins must be paid. Christ paid that price for those that repent and put their faith and trust in Him.   

blackregiment

Unless, of course, you don't worship or believe in God.  And if he is real, I'd be inclined to think that he is far from just.    

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

God did not create robots. He wants us to love and serve Him based on our free will choice. True love is not possible without a free will to choose to love or choose not to love. Are you suggesting that God should remove our free will?  

Dark_Knight6

If he wanted everyone to love him he should have provided a little more proof than a book.  

First of all, God does not have to prove Himself to anyone. He is our supreme Creator. The creation is not greater than the Creator.

Second, God has revealed Himself sufficiently so that those that seek Him can find Him without interferring with the free will of those that don't want to seek Him. 

God has revealed Himself in His creation, in His Word, in Jesus Christ, and in the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives. 

First of all, God does not have to prove Himself to anyone. He is our supreme Creator. The creation is not greater than the Creator.

Second, God has revealed Himself sufficiently so that those that seek Him can find Him without interferring with the free will of those that don't want to seek Him. 

God has revealed Himself in His creation, in His Word, in Jesus Christ, and in the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives. 

blackregiment

He wants me to believe in him?  He has to prove himself.  I won't blindly follow something because a book says I should.  Especially when that same book would condemn me to death over something trivial.  

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

It does not matter what anyone in this world thinks or says. What matters is that God's, the very God that we will stand before in judgement, standard of righteousness prohibits it. When we violate His standards of righteousness, we sin against Him. Being a righteous and just God, He must punish disobedience. When we bear our own sin, we cannot have fellowship with a holy God. To have fellowship with Him, the penalty for our sins must be paid. Christ paid that price for those that repent and put their faith and trust in Him.   

Dark_Knight6

Unless, of course, you don't worship or believe in God.  And if he is real, I'd be inclined to think that he is far from just.    

He give us all the free will to believe or disbelieve. I assume then that you would consider a judge that let a murder go scott free as "just" and one that punished him as unjust. God's Divine justice is an evidence of His existence, Justice demands punishment. There are those that get away with crimes in this world and justice is unserved. It isn't, those people will face God's Divine justice when they die. We make a mistake when we try and judge God and His actions by our own finite understanding. Our thoughts and ways are finite, God's are infinite. We cannot possibly know every aspect of God's plan other than what He has chosen to reveal to us. We will not fully understand everything until the Lord returns.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

First of all, God does not have to prove Himself to anyone. He is our supreme Creator. The creation is not greater than the Creator.

Second, God has revealed Himself sufficiently so that those that seek Him can find Him without interferring with the free will of those that don't want to seek Him. 

God has revealed Himself in His creation, in His Word, in Jesus Christ, and in the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives. 

Dark_Knight6

He wants me to believe in him?  He has to prove himself.  I won't blindly follow something because a book says I should.  Especially when that same book would condemn me to death over something trivial.  

That is your free will choice. You are choosing to put your faith in your own understanding rather than in God and what He has said. He is faithful and will allow you to do just that. He will give us the eternal destiny we choose.