Do You Consider Yourself To Be A Good Person? Poll.

He give us all the free will to believe or disbelieve. I assume then that you would consider a judge that let a murder go scott free as "just" and one that punished him as unjust. God's Divine justice is an evidence of His existence, Justice demands punishment. There are those that get away with crimes in this world and justice is unserved. It isn't, those people will face God's Divine justice when they die. We make a mistake when we try and judge God and His actions by our own finite understanding. Our thoughts and ways are finite, God's are infinite. We cannot possibly know every aspect of God's plan other than what He has chosen to reveal to us. We will not fully understand everything until the Lord returns.

 

blackregiment

It'd be best if you didn't assume because you're way off.  When you murder someone, you take away a natural right and you've no right doing that.  But many things that God dislikes and would condemn people for are trivial, that's why I'd say he is unjust.  

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

So are you admitting that you lack self-control? That you have no self-restraint?

Hewkii

I think the fact you need restraint proves that you do not have a choice, or at least not a fair one.

Did you ever consider the fact that the wisp of time we spend in this world is like a qualifier round in golf? Like a football combine?

Not everyone just automatically makes God's team. This life is where we prove our love and obedience for our Creator God. Part of that is demonstrating self-control and restraint to avoid things that are against His will and use our free will to choose whether or not we want to be on God's team.  

If I break the law, but I believe the judge exists, does that exempt me from going to jail?  

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

He give us all the free will to believe or disbelieve. I assume then that you would consider a judge that let a murder go scott free as "just" and one that punished him as unjust. God's Divine justice is an evidence of His existence, Justice demands punishment. There are those that get away with crimes in this world and justice is unserved. It isn't, those people will face God's Divine justice when they die. We make a mistake when we try and judge God and His actions by our own finite understanding. Our thoughts and ways are finite, God's are infinite. We cannot possibly know every aspect of God's plan other than what He has chosen to reveal to us. We will not fully understand everything until the Lord returns.

 

Dark_Knight6

It'd be best if you didn't assume because you're way off.  When you murder someone, you take away a natural right and you've no right doing that.  But many things that God dislikes and would condemn people for are trivial, that's why I'd say he is unjust.  

You are relying on your own understanding and judging God which is a sin in and of itself. You are elevating your standards and understanding above God's and then judging Him. You are falling for the original lie that satan told in the Garden of Eden.

I have a question:

If I break the law, but I believe the judge exists, does that exempt me from going to jail?  

harashawn

Nah you've got to worship the judge and live by his rules as well I think.

I have a question:

If I break the law, but I believe the judge exists, does that exempt me from going to jail?  

harashawn

First, you are trying to compare temporal things of this world with spiritual things of God. 

Second, salvation in Christ is more that just believing He exists. Satan believes that He exists. He tried to tempt Jesus and failed.

Salvation in Christ requires sorry for our sins, repentance, and trusting in Christ with all of your heart, mind, and soul as your Lord and Savior.

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

He give us all the free will to believe or disbelieve. I assume then that you would consider a judge that let a murder go scott free as "just" and one that punished him as unjust. God's Divine justice is an evidence of His existence, Justice demands punishment. There are those that get away with crimes in this world and justice is unserved. It isn't, those people will face God's Divine justice when they die. We make a mistake when we try and judge God and His actions by our own finite understanding. Our thoughts and ways are finite, God's are infinite. We cannot possibly know every aspect of God's plan other than what He has chosen to reveal to us. We will not fully understand everything until the Lord returns.

blackregiment

It'd be best if you didn't assume because you're way off. When you murder someone, you take away a natural right and you've no right doing that. But many things that God dislikes and would condemn people for are trivial, that's why I'd say he is unjust.

You are relying on your own understanding and judging God which is a sin in and of itself. You are elevating your standards and understanding above God's and then judging Him. You are falling for the original lie that satan told in the Garden of Eden.

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

And we should trust Bible verses why?

That is your free will choice. You are choosing to put your faith in your own understanding rather than in God and what He has said. He is faithful and will allow you to do just that. He will give us the eternal destiny we choose. 

blackregiment

I've seen both sides of this picture.  When I placed my faith in the Bible, I wasn't a happy person.  The more I seperated myself from it, the happier I was.  Why should I place my faith in it again?  

First, you are trying to compare temporal things of this world with spiritual things of God. 

Second, salvation in Christ is more that just believing He exists. Satan believes that He exists. He tried to tempt Jesus and failed.

Salvation in Christ requires sorry for our sins, repentance, and trusting in Christ with all of your heart, mind, and soul as your Lord and Savior.

blackregiment

I am sorry for the crime I committed. The judge is a just judge, I know he will save me. He won't let me go to jail. 

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

That is your free will choice. You are choosing to put your faith in your own understanding rather than in God and what He has said. He is faithful and will allow you to do just that. He will give us the eternal destiny we choose. 

Dark_Knight6

I've seen both sides of this picture.  When I placed my faith in the Bible, I wasn't a happy person.  The more I seperated myself from it, the happier I was.  Why should I place my faith in it again?  

Well, if you placed your faith in the Bible, you placed your faith in the wrong place. Our faith is in Christ. The Bible is His revealed Word. It is God's instruction manual to His creation on who He is, what he expects, the consequences of disobedience, and how we can be redeemed from our fallen state and have fellowship with Him, both in this world and in eternity. Thnk of it like this, when one accepts a job working for a person, they are told what the boss and the company expects, the company goals, the company rules and job duties, the job expectations and performance standards, the consequences of poor performance or breaking the company rules, and the opportunity for advancement. If one does not like this, they use their free will to reject the position. If they accept them and abide bythem, they prosper, if they don't they are fired.

That being said, why were you so unhappy? What are the things that yoiu do now that make you happy?  

[QUOTE="sAndroid17"]i think i am a great person, but not by your polls!blackregiment

The poll just asks a general question and then gives several choices for response. It does not list or define any standards of goodness at all. With no standards defined in the poll, there is nothing for us to compare ourselves to so I don't understand your statement, "but not by your polls"?. Are you referring to the follow up questions asked by a poster rather than the poll itself?

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

First, you are trying to compare temporal things of this world with spiritual things of God. 

Second, salvation in Christ is more that just believing He exists. Satan believes that He exists. He tried to tempt Jesus and failed.

Salvation in Christ requires sorry for our sins, repentance, and trusting in Christ with all of your heart, mind, and soul as your Lord and Savior.

harashawn

I am sorry for the crime I committed. The judge is a just judge, I know he will save me. He won't let me go to jail. 

You continue to try to compare temporal things to spiritual things, that is like comparing apples to oranges.

In addition you left out one thing in your scenario, no penalty was paid. in the spiritual realm, God's wrath, righteousness, holiness, and justice demands that a penalty be paid. No one is let off scott free. We either pay the penalty ourselves in eternity by rejecting Christ's sacrifice, or we accept Christ and the penalty is paid by him for us. The choice is ours.    

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

 

It'd be best if you didn't assume because you're way off. When you murder someone, you take away a natural right and you've no right doing that. But many things that God dislikes and would condemn people for are trivial, that's why I'd say he is unjust.

Ingenemployee

You are relying on your own understanding and judging God which is a sin in and of itself. You are elevating your standards and understanding above God's and then judging Him. You are falling for the original lie that satan told in the Garden of Eden.

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

And we should trust Bible verses why?

Because it is God's revelation to His creation. Of course you are free not to trust God's Word. That is your free will choice. 

In addition you left out one thing in your scenario, no penalty was paid. in the spiritual realm, God's wrath, righteousness, holiness, and justice demands that a penalty be paid. No one is let off scott free. We either pay the penalty ourselves in eternity by rejecting Christ's sacrifice, or we accept Christ and the penalty is paid by him for us. The choice is ours.    

blackregiment

So basically, I can do whatever I want but since I'm a Christian (Which I am), It doesn't matter?

I think it would make more sense to actually strive to be like Jesus, instead of just saying "Jesus died for my sins, I don't need to be good". 

[QUOTE="Ingenemployee"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

You are relying on your own understanding and judging God which is a sin in and of itself. You are elevating your standards and understanding above God's and then judging Him. You are falling for the original lie that satan told in the Garden of Eden.

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
blackregiment

And we should trust Bible verses why?

Because it is God's revelation to His creation. Of course you are free not to trust God's Word. That is your free will choice.

How do you know its Gods word?

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

In addition you left out one thing in your scenario, no penalty was paid. in the spiritual realm, God's wrath, righteousness, holiness, and justice demands that a penalty be paid. No one is let off scott free. We either pay the penalty ourselves in eternity by rejecting Christ's sacrifice, or we accept Christ and the penalty is paid by him for us. The choice is ours.    

harashawn

So basically, I can do whatever I want but since I'm a Christian (Which I am), It doesn't matter?

I think it would make more sense to actually strive to be like Jesus, instead of just saying "Jesus died for my sins, I don't need to be good". 

No, not at all. When one is a true follower of Christ, while they may slip and fall at times, they do not coninue in a life of intentional and willful sin. They have a new consciousness of sin and strive to live their lives in obedience to the Lord. If one calls themself a Christian and continues to live a life of intentional and willful sin, they are a Christian in name only and are lidding themselves if they think they have salvation.

Luk 6:46  And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Joh 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1Jn 2:4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

True followers of Christ strive to be Christ like but as long as we live in our fleshy tents, we are subject to sin and the desires of the flesh. Santification unto righteousness is a lifelong process under the guidence of the Holy Spirit until the day of the Lord's return.  

I'm coming in late but here it goes... I believe that morality (ex. right and wrong, good and evil) exists in the same way that aesthetics exists (ex. beautiful and ugly, attractive and unattractive).

If I were to present a rose and ask you to name its properties what would you say? You could count the petals, tell me the length of the stem, the number of thorns, the colors you see, etc. But would you also add "beauty" as a property of the flower?

I argue that no flower is beautiful, at least linguistically speaking. What I mean is that is that beauty is something that we experience on the human side of the perceptual experience. Beauty is not a natural property of any object. We experience beauty when we look at the flower, but the flower in and of itself is not beautiful but beauty is not a property of the flower. This is why the same object may appear beautiful to one man and hideous to another at the exact same time. People have different tastes. See where I'm going with this?

In the case of morality I think there is a biological response to certain stimuli that evokes the "good" and "bad" feeling in the human mind (much like the beautiful / hideous response). That may sound silly at first but I believe it to be accurate. We can pretty much agree on what it means to be good or bad, or beautiful or uglywhen we're speaking in the most general of terms, but no two people on earth who will agree on what is right and what is wrong (or beaultifu and ugly for that matter) when we start applying these ideas to real events, ideas, an objects.

So yeah, I believe in right and wrong and good and evil, but not as absolutes by any means. In the same way that two men might stare at a work or art and simultaneous exclaim, "Wonderful!" and "Ghastly!", I believe that two individuals can perceive any event (seriously... ANY event) as righteous, good, neutral, bad or even evil and both right on the money.

Not a popular opinion, I know.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="Ingenemployee"]

 

And we should trust Bible verses why?

Ingenemployee

Because it is God's revelation to His creation. Of course you are free not to trust God's Word. That is your free will choice.

How do you know its Gods word?

Many ways. Through the testimony of the Holy Spirit that lives within me, through the consistent message of salvation in Christ that it reveals, though hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, through the power of the Word to change lives, to lift people out of lives of despair, through the fullfilled promises and covenants it contains, through the thousands of archaeological discoveries that have confirmed people, places and events recorded in the Bible, to the first hand testimony of the Apostles and their willingness to die for what they knew was true since they were eyewitnesses to the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, to name a few.

The Bible is God's progressive revelation to mankind with the central figure being the true living God, revealed in Jesus Christ the Messiah. Understanding the truths it reveals and applying them to our lives and beliefs is the most important thing we will ever do in our lives. We can ignore it, disbelieve it, or pretend it isn't true, but we cannot change it. Our opinion of the truth of the Bible does not determine whether it is the truth or not.  Moral relativism is a lie that many have bought into to their own peril.

The entire Bible is the inerrant, inspired, preserved, revelation from God of  Himself, His interaction with and plan of salvation for His creation with Jesus Christ as the central revelation.      

The Bible is composed of 66 separate books, written over approximately 1,600 years, by at least 40 distinct authors, from all walks of life, written in three different languages, on three different continents, all in perfect agreement and revealing a consistent message, the path to salvation in Jesus Christ. The Old Testament contains 39 books written from approximately 1500 to 400 BC, and the New Testament contains 27 books written from approximately 40 to 65 AD.

There is no other book that has ever come close to this remarkable achievement and wisdom. Anyone that reads and studies it and cannot see the inspiration and work of God in the Bible just doesn't want to. Try getting 40 people in the same room or on the same internet thread to agree on something and it will be clear that the Bible is God's inspired, inerrant, and preserved Word. Anyone can pick a verse out of the Bible and try to discredit it but when one openly and honestly looks at all of the evidence for the truth of the Bible in its entirety, only one that chooses to remain in rebellion to the Lord will reject it. It has been said, even by secular psychologists, that if one studies the Sermon on the Mount, in the 5th, 6th, and 7th chapters of Matthew, the excellence of the wisdom, guidance, and life lessons of the words and teachings of Jesus in just those verses, surpasses the totality of all advice ever written in the history of man by all psychologists and sociologists that ever lived.  Many concede that if all the advice ever written by those experts were condensed down, into one document, the wisdom for living in Jesus' teachings would dwarf them in significance. This is overwhelming evidence for the divine inspiration and truth of the Bible as well as the divinity of Christ. 

In the Old Testament

The books of Law reveal the foundation for Christ the Messiah

The historical books reveal the preparation for Christ the Messiah

The books poetic books aspire to Christ the Messiah

The books of prophecy reveal the expectation of Christ the Messiah

In the New Testament

The Gospels reveal the historical manifestation of Christ the Messiah

The Acts reveal the propagation of Christ the messiah

The Epistles reveal the interpretation of Christ the Messiah

Revelation reveals the consummation of all things in Christ the Messiah

God has not revealed His entire plan and everything regarding the natural world to man.  Man could not possibly comprehend it with our finite mind. He has revealed what He, as our Creator, wants us to know.

Well, if you placed your faith in the Bible, you placed your faith in the wrong place. Our faith is in Christ. The Bible is His revealed Word. It is God's instruction manual to His creation on who He is, what he expects, the consequences of disobedience, and how we can be redeemed from our fallen state and have fellowship with Him, both in this world and in eternity. Thnk of it like this, when one accepts a job working for a person, they are told what the boss and the company expects, the company goals, the company rules and job duties, the job expectations and performance standards, the consequences of poor performance or breaking the company rules, and the opportunity for advancement. If one does not like this, they use their free will to reject the position. If they accept them and abide bythem, they prosper, if they don't they are fired.

That being said, why were you so unhappy? What are the things that yoiu do now that make you happy?  

blackregiment

When I said the Bible, I meant in Christ.  I should have worded that better.  And I was unhappy because I was led to think that I wasn't a good person.  I eventually started to distance myself from my beliefs.  And the more I did that, the more I realized that I am a good person and that made me happier.  

I'm coming in late but here it goes... I believe that morality (ex. right and wrong, good and evil) exists in the same way that aesthetics exists (ex. beautiful and ugly, attractive and unattractive).

If I were to present a rose and ask you to name its properties what would you say? You could count the petals, tell me the length of the stem, the number of thorns, the colors you see, etc. But would you also add "beauty" as a property of the flower?

I argue that no flower is beautiful, at least linguistically speaking. What I mean is that is that beauty is something that we experience on the human side of the perceptual experience. Beauty is not a natural property of any object. We experience beauty when we look at the flower, but the flower in and of itself is not beautiful but beauty is not a property of the flower. This is why the same object may appear beautiful to one man and hideous to another at the exact same time. People have different tastes. See where I'm going with this?

In the case of morality I think there is a biological response to certain stimuli that evokes the "good" and "bad" feeling in the human mind (much like the beautiful / hideous response). That may sound silly at first but I believe it to be accurate. We can pretty much agree on what it means to be good or bad, or beautiful or uglywhen we're speaking in the most general of terms, but no two people on earth who will agree on what is right and what is wrong (or beaultifu and ugly for that matter) when we start applying these ideas to real events, ideas, an objects.

So yeah, I believe in right and wrong and good and evil, but not as absolutes by any means. In the same way that two men might stare at a work or art and simultaneous exclaim, "Wonderful!" and "Ghastly!", I believe that two individuals can perceive any event (seriously... ANY event) as righteous, good, neutral, bad or even evil and both right on the money.

Not a popular opinion, I know.

Schwah

The problem with your reasoning is that our beliefs do not determine reality, our standards do not determine our Creator's standards. Our feeling about what is right or wrong are irrelevant in the spiritual realm.  God sets the standards for righteousness, or good and bad, right and wrong, if you prefer. When we stand before a holy, righteous, just, and supreme God, we are judged by His standards, not ours. God's stndards are perfection. We all miss that mark. We all stand guilty before God. If we bear our own sins, we must pay the price for them. If our sins are paid for by the blood of Christ, through our faith in Him, we are counted righteous in God's eyes, by His standards, not ours. 

There are those that will say, I don't care because I don't believe in God. God gives each of us a free will to make that choice but our beliefs in God's existence do not determine the reality of His existence. God will be fithful in giving us the eternity we choose. 

I think I'm a relatively good person, though, in the past I have lied, lusted, hated, stolen...and I still swear once in a while. I don't like it when I do, however...I'd like to have better self-control.

[QUOTE="Schwah"]

I'm coming in late but here it goes... I believe that morality (ex. right and wrong, good and evil) exists in the same way that aesthetics exists (ex. beautiful and ugly, attractive and unattractive).

If I were to present a rose and ask you to name its properties what would you say? You could count the petals, tell me the length of the stem, the number of thorns, the colors you see, etc. But would you also add "beauty" as a property of the flower?

I argue that no flower is beautiful, at least linguistically speaking. What I mean is that is that beauty is something that we experience on the human side of the perceptual experience. Beauty is not a natural property of any object. We experience beauty when we look at the flower, but the flower in and of itself is not beautiful but beauty is not a property of the flower. This is why the same object may appear beautiful to one man and hideous to another at the exact same time. People have different tastes. See where I'm going with this?

In the case of morality I think there is a biological response to certain stimuli that evokes the "good" and "bad" feeling in the human mind (much like the beautiful / hideous response). That may sound silly at first but I believe it to be accurate. We can pretty much agree on what it means to be good or bad, or beautiful or uglywhen we're speaking in the most general of terms, but no two people on earth who will agree on what is right and what is wrong (or beaultifu and ugly for that matter) when we start applying these ideas to real events, ideas, an objects.

So yeah, I believe in right and wrong and good and evil, but not as absolutes by any means. In the same way that two men might stare at a work or art and simultaneous exclaim, "Wonderful!" and "Ghastly!", I believe that two individuals can perceive any event (seriously... ANY event) as righteous, good, neutral, bad or even evil and both right on the money.

Not a popular opinion, I know.

blackregiment

The problem with your reasoning is that our beliefs do not determine reality, our standards do not determine our Creator's standards. Our feeling about what is right or wrong are irrelevant in the spiritual realm. God sets the standards for righteousness, or good and bad, right and wrong, if you prefer. When we stand before a holy, righteous, just, and supreme God, we are judged by His standards, not ours. God's stndards are perfection. We all miss that mark. We all stand guilty before God. If we bear our own sins, we must pay the price for them. If our sins are paid for by the blood of Christ, through our faith in Him, we are counted righteous in God's eyes, by His standards, not ours.

There are those that will say, I don't care because I don't believe in God. God gives each of us a free will to make that choice but our beliefs in God's existence do not determine the reality of His existence. God will be fithful in giving us the eternity we choose.

We're not in full disagreement.

I don't believe in gods, certainly not any of those described in any existing religion that I've had the pleasure of studying (the Christian god included). But with that being said it is your recognition of standards that puts us in agreement. It may well be true that there is a god who who created a reality in which all moral perspectives are possible, but in which there exists only one moral standard upon which we shall all be judged. I'm agnostic, so I'm certainly willing to accept that possibility as one of an infinite number of possible truths.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Well, if you placed your faith in the Bible, you placed your faith in the wrong place. Our faith is in Christ. The Bible is His revealed Word. It is God's instruction manual to His creation on who He is, what he expects, the consequences of disobedience, and how we can be redeemed from our fallen state and have fellowship with Him, both in this world and in eternity. Thnk of it like this, when one accepts a job working for a person, they are told what the boss and the company expects, the company goals, the company rules and job duties, the job expectations and performance standards, the consequences of poor performance or breaking the company rules, and the opportunity for advancement. If one does not like this, they use their free will to reject the position. If they accept them and abide bythem, they prosper, if they don't they are fired.

That being said, why were you so unhappy? What are the things that yoiu do now that make you happy?  

Dark_Knight6

When I said the Bible, I meant in Christ.  I should have worded that better.  And I was unhappy because I was led to think that I wasn't a good person.  I eventually started to distance myself from my beliefs.  And the more I did that, the more I realized that I am a good person and that made me happier.  

Many people have difficulty admiting that we are all fallen sinners according to God's standards of righteousness. We grow up being told we are good by the world. We grow up accustomed to having our egos stroked, we grow dependent on that stroking.

We must not confuse the world's standards with God's standards. They are two different standards. We must also not confuse happiness in temporal matters with joy in Christ. Happiness in this world is fleeting. Joy in Christ is eternal. When we are in Christ, we have assurance of eternal life. When we are obedient to the Word of God, we avoid error and stay in His blessings.We have joy in knowing that even as fallen sinners, God loves us and was willing to suffer and die for us so that we will not have to face God's wrath for our unrighteousness and sin. If we trust in Christ, the price has been paid for us. If we don't we pay the price ourselves. 

What is it about surrendering to Christ and being obedient to His standards of righteousness that would make you unhappy? Are there things in your life that are contrary to God's Word that you do not want to give up?    

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="Schwah"]

I'm coming in late but here it goes... I believe that morality (ex. right and wrong, good and evil) exists in the same way that aesthetics exists (ex. beautiful and ugly, attractive and unattractive).

If I were to present a rose and ask you to name its properties what would you say? You could count the petals, tell me the length of the stem, the number of thorns, the colors you see, etc. But would you also add "beauty" as a property of the flower?

I argue that no flower is beautiful, at least linguistically speaking. What I mean is that is that beauty is something that we experience on the human side of the perceptual experience. Beauty is not a natural property of any object. We experience beauty when we look at the flower, but the flower in and of itself is not beautiful but beauty is not a property of the flower. This is why the same object may appear beautiful to one man and hideous to another at the exact same time. People have different tastes. See where I'm going with this?

In the case of morality I think there is a biological response to certain stimuli that evokes the "good" and "bad" feeling in the human mind (much like the beautiful / hideous response). That may sound silly at first but I believe it to be accurate. We can pretty much agree on what it means to be good or bad, or beautiful or uglywhen we're speaking in the most general of terms, but no two people on earth who will agree on what is right and what is wrong (or beaultifu and ugly for that matter) when we start applying these ideas to real events, ideas, an objects.

So yeah, I believe in right and wrong and good and evil, but not as absolutes by any means. In the same way that two men might stare at a work or art and simultaneous exclaim, "Wonderful!" and "Ghastly!", I believe that two individuals can perceive any event (seriously... ANY event) as righteous, good, neutral, bad or even evil and both right on the money.

Not a popular opinion, I know.

Schwah

The problem with your reasoning is that our beliefs do not determine reality, our standards do not determine our Creator's standards. Our feeling about what is right or wrong are irrelevant in the spiritual realm. God sets the standards for righteousness, or good and bad, right and wrong, if you prefer. When we stand before a holy, righteous, just, and supreme God, we are judged by His standards, not ours. God's stndards are perfection. We all miss that mark. We all stand guilty before God. If we bear our own sins, we must pay the price for them. If our sins are paid for by the blood of Christ, through our faith in Him, we are counted righteous in God's eyes, by His standards, not ours.

There are those that will say, I don't care because I don't believe in God. God gives each of us a free will to make that choice but our beliefs in God's existence do not determine the reality of His existence. God will be fithful in giving us the eternity we choose.

We're not in full disagreement.

I don't believe in gods, certainly not any of those described in any existing religion that I've had the pleasure of studying (the Christian god included). But with that being said it is your recognition of standards that puts us in agreement. It may well be true that there is a god who who created a reality in which all moral perspectives are possible, but in which there exists only one moral standard upon which we shall all be judged. I'm agnostic, so I'm certainly willing to accept that possibility as one of an infinite number or truths.

I understand your position. I was once in the same place. I had my doubts so I went on a quest and studied in many areas. Before I began, I prayed and asked God to show me, convince me that He was real I asked Him to lead me to the truth whatever that truth may be. I promised Him that if He led me to the truth of His existence and the truth of His will. that I would devote my life to serving Him and doing His will. I studied the evidence in many areas and came to a faith in Him and His Word. The many, many doubts I had were removed one by one, and I have dedicated my life to serving Him and telling others about Him.   

...Before I began, I prayed and asked God to show me, convince me that He was real I asked Him to lead me to the truth whatever that truth may be...I studied the evidence in many areas and came to a faith in Him and His Word. The many, many doubts I had were removed one by one....   blackregiment

Many people say the same thing about their faith. They pray and ask god to show them the way, and they find themselves in a particular religion. Then they say "This must be the answer".But if only one religion is truth, then many of these "experiences" are false. What makes you so certain?

What is it about surrendering to Christ and being obedient to His standards of righteousness that would make you unhappy? Are there things in your life that are contrary to God's Word that you do not want to give up?    

blackregiment

I'm attracted to men more so than I am to women.  As far as I'm aware, God doesn't particularly like that.  Having to go back to ignoring these emotions is something I don't want to do.   

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]...Before I began, I prayed and asked God to show me, convince me that He was real I asked Him to lead me to the truth whatever that truth may be...I studied the evidence in many areas and came to a faith in Him and His Word. The many, many doubts I had were removed one by one....   dog64

Many people say the same thing about their faith. They pray and ask god to show them the way, and they find themselves in a particular religion. Then they say "This must be the answer".But if only one religion is truth, then many of these "experiences" are false. What makes you so certain?

The Bible makes him certain. 

(very predictable)

[QUOTE="Schwah"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

The problem with your reasoning is that our beliefs do not determine reality, our standards do not determine our Creator's standards. Our feeling about what is right or wrong are irrelevant in the spiritual realm. God sets the standards for righteousness, or good and bad, right and wrong, if you prefer. When we stand before a holy, righteous, just, and supreme God, we are judged by His standards, not ours. God's stndards are perfection. We all miss that mark. We all stand guilty before God. If we bear our own sins, we must pay the price for them. If our sins are paid for by the blood of Christ, through our faith in Him, we are counted righteous in God's eyes, by His standards, not ours.

There are those that will say, I don't care because I don't believe in God. God gives each of us a free will to make that choice but our beliefs in God's existence do not determine the reality of His existence. God will be fithful in giving us the eternity we choose.

blackregiment

We're not in full disagreement.

I don't believe in gods, certainly not any of those described in any existing religion that I've had the pleasure of studying (the Christian god included). But with that being said it is your recognition of standards that puts us in agreement. It may well be true that there is a god who who created a reality in which all moral perspectives are possible, but in which there exists only one moral standard upon which we shall all be judged. I'm agnostic, so I'm certainly willing to accept that possibility as one of an infinite number or truths.

I understand your position. I was once in the same place. I had my doubts so I went on a quest and studied in many areas. Before I began, I prayed and asked God to show me, convince me that He was real I asked Him to lead me to the truth whatever that truth may be. I promised Him that if He led me to the truth of His existence and the truth of His will. that I would devote my life to serving Him and doing His will. I studied the evidence in many areas and came to a faith in Him and His Word. The many, many doubts I had were removed one by one, and I have dedicated my life to serving Him and telling others about Him.

Interesting. I took the opposite route. I was raised as a Christian and did everything in my power to deafen and blind myself to anything that challenged my faith. When I finally cracjked the door open ever so slightly to careful consideration of my beliefs I eventually changed my perspective as many doubts were added one by one until they became a landslide of truth to the false witness to spirituality, history, and yes... faith.

[QUOTE="dog64"]

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]...Before I began, I prayed and asked God to show me, convince me that He was real I asked Him to lead me to the truth whatever that truth may be...I studied the evidence in many areas and came to a faith in Him and His Word. The many, many doubts I had were removed one by one.... Shad0ki11

Many people say the same thing about their faith. They pray and ask god to show them the way, and they find themselves in a particular religion. Then they say "This must be the answer".But if only one religion is truth, then many of these "experiences" are false. What makes you so certain?

The Bible makes him certain.

(very predictable)

Even so, what makes him so certain the Bible is the truth? He doesn't find one thing that he questions? Muslims are just as confident in the Quran as Christians are in the Bible, to name one example. What makes them so confident? I guess the same thing that makes blackregiment so confident.

Not everyone just automatically makes God's team.

blackregiment

says whom?

Most of you guys including me aren't good people, sorry but that's just the truth :) Sad that so many voted yesSolid_Snake325

How so?  And I really wouldn't judge such a large amount of people so quickly.  

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]"Hormones" have nothing to do with this. What matters is that God's Word condemns premarital sex. It is immoral.Enosh88

no actualy they do have a lot to do with it, ask any doctor.

Crushmaster

I think it's about time to let this topic die. 

  I think I got a good video (but, I bet athiest wont even look at it, trust me I know athiest they like hate the truth).

  In my humanities class a guy was running the class talking about realities, how the man in truth sees the light, he is walking towards the light, while the other guy can't see anything, and all he can see is what was in front of him.  The guy was talking about how the blind person needs to open his eyes to see truth, otherwise he is just going to stay in the same viewpoint all the time.  That was very ironic because I dont think the guy was a christian, but he was almost talking about christianity.

  Christianity is about knowing the truth of life, not just believing it because you want to, but because you think it is true.  The difference between Islam and christianity is that you in Islam you are born into it, or you might get confused into believing it just because it makes that particular person feel better.  But, christianity is something that you find all by yourself, not trust in fallible man, but trusting god alone.  Islam is based on a man-made religion, christianity is god-made, but it is not religion, it is a living god.  You actually talk to god, not just do vain prayers, you actually live the life, not doing vain practices....

  Honestly no one should of said yes, because even though I can say I never drank, done drugs, hurt anybody for no reason, I still can remember that I have done some pretty petty things in the past.  

Christianity is about knowing the truth of life, not just believing it because you want to, but because you think it is true.  The difference between Islam and christianity is that you in Islam you are born into it, or you might get confused into believing it just because it makes that particular person feel better.  But, christianity is something that you find all by yourself, not trust in fallible man, but trusting god alone.  Islam is based on a man-made religion, christianity is god-made, but it is not religion, it is a living god.  You actually talk to god, not just do vain prayers, you actually live the life, not doing vain practices....

SegaGenesisfan

It's funny that you say that people are born into Islam but not Christianity.  I, along with many people I know, where born into Christian families and were never given a choice on religion until a later age.  In that sense, we were technically born into it.  

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]...Before I began, I prayed and asked God to show me, convince me that He was real I asked Him to lead me to the truth whatever that truth may be...I studied the evidence in many areas and came to a faith in Him and His Word. The many, many doubts I had were removed one by one....   dog64

Many people say the same thing about their faith. They pray and ask god to show them the way, and they find themselves in a particular religion. Then they say "This must be the answer".But if only one religion is truth, then many of these "experiences" are false. What makes you so certain?

The personal testimony of the Holy Spirt as well as the positive changes and corrections in my life wrought through the power of God's Word and the Holy Spirit working in my life, as well the observation of this same power to change the lives of countless others.    

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

What is it about surrendering to Christ and being obedient to His standards of righteousness that would make you unhappy? Are there things in your life that are contrary to God's Word that you do not want to give up?    

Dark_Knight6

I'm attracted to men more so than I am to women.  As far as I'm aware, God doesn't particularly like that.  Having to go back to ignoring these emotions is something I don't want to do.   

There are many things that we must change in our lives if we are to live in obedience to God's Word and will. We can either wlak in the spirit and serve God, or walk in the flesh and serve our worldly fleshy desires. The choice we make will lead to different ends.

God gave us a free will to make that choice,  

[QUOTE="dog64"]

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]...Before I began, I prayed and asked God to show me, convince me that He was real I asked Him to lead me to the truth whatever that truth may be...I studied the evidence in many areas and came to a faith in Him and His Word. The many, many doubts I had were removed one by one....   Shad0ki11

Many people say the same thing about their faith. They pray and ask god to show them the way, and they find themselves in a particular religion. Then they say "This must be the answer".But if only one religion is truth, then many of these "experiences" are false. What makes you so certain?

The Bible makes him certain. 

(very predictable)

Do you claim to "speak" from a position of omniscience? Funny thing is, I did not even use the word Bible in what I wrote. Ooops!!!! It's tough out there when one lacks spiritual discernment. It leaves one at a great disadvantage when discussing spiritual things. Sort of like one trying to play tennis using a baseball bat. "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

2Co 4:3  But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Isa 44:18  They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.

1Co 2:10  But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15  But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Not everyone just automatically makes God's team.

Hewkii

says whom?

Says the Lord, the team captain.

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20  For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21  But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]harashawn

I think it's about time to let this topic die. 

That is such a predictable response. It comes up frequently in threads discussing the things of God. The Word of God is offensive to the world. The world is always trying to silence discussions of things of God. 

Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 

What puzzles me though is this. I may be mistaken, and I stand corrected if I am, but in an earlier post I thought you said you are a Christian. If that is the case, it puzzles me as to why you would suggest ending a thread in which spiritual things of God are being discussed. That plea usually is iniated by the non-believers, not Christians. Just wondering....   

The difference between Islam and christianity is that you in Islam you are born into it, or you might get confused into believing it just because it makes that particular person feel better.  But, christianity is something that you find all by yourself, not trust in fallible man, but trusting god alone.

SegaGenesisfan

****, I was babtized at the age of 2 or 3 not much of a choice there, same with basicly everyone else I know

LIed?

yes

stolen?

not proud, but yes, as a kid

lust?

scince the age of 12

hated?

not really, no

god's name in vain?

yes

however, most of these are natural, especially the lust, so i still consider myself a reasonably good person

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

 

I really don't get the "adultery" part.  You cannot commit adultery without being in a relationship.  Not only that but having thoughts like those is just human nature.  

blackregiment

So are you admitting that you lack self-control? That you have no self-restraint?