Do You Consider Yourself To Be A Good Person? Poll.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

 

You gotta love those that criticize things they haven't seen. Nothing like arguing from a lack of knowledge. Expelled was great, especially when Dawkins got all red faced and tongue tied when asked about the origin of life. It was priceless. 

blackregiment

Yes I have and the many of the hadiths as well. and have you ever read the complete Bible?

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Yeah, exactly. God apparently created us with urges like this, then forbade them as sin, thus commanding humans to do the impossible: to simply not have a natural, irrepressible urge.Funky_Llama

So are you admitting that you lack self-control? That you have no self-restraint?

Yes through the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit, as I serve Christ and walk in the spirit. 

Gal 5:16  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
 

Im surprised, this has acctually turned into some worthwhile converstion, not the normal bs.

anyway, the way see it is that, me and most organised religion differ on several important points(not all but some), thus i am not what you would call a believer. Im sorry i just had to throw that in.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

 

So are you admitting that you lack self-control? That you have no self-restraint?

blackregiment

Yes through the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit, as I serve Christ and walk in the spirit. 

Gal 5:16  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
 

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

So are you admitting that you lack self-control? That you have no self-restraint?

blackregiment

Yes through the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit, as I serve Christ and walk in the spirit.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

but my question is, why would you want to supress urges like lust?

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Have you read the entire Qur'an, back to back?Funky_Llama

Yes I have and the many of the hadiths as well. and have you ever read the complete Bible?

Comments like that do not help you credibility. Are you claiming omniscience? If so, how many hairs are of the back of a Tibetan Yak? What color shirt am I wearing right now? What is the temperature outside right now where I reside? What was the exact temperature on earth the day that the first cell magically sprang to life from non-living chemicals as your naturalisti faith proclaims? Exactly how many aminio acids were in the first protein that formed magically according to your religion of naturalism? How was the problem of chrialty overcome in that first protein that was "created" by the god of the naturalistic faith, "random chance"?Tell me, whatdo the "high priests of your faith, the scientists, teach as dogma? 

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Everyone does, to an extent. Can you simply choose to switch off an urge?pancreasjuice

Yes through the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit, as I serve Christ and walk in the spirit.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

but my question is, why would you want to supress urges like lust?

Because according to God's standard of righteousness, lust is a sin against God. Sin has a price that must be paid when we stand in judgement before God. 

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Everyone does, to an extent. Can you simply choose to switch off an urge?Funky_Llama

Yes through the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit, as I serve Christ and walk in the spirit. 

Gal 5:16  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
 

Your response doesn't suprise me. I wouldn't expect you to understand the spiritual things of God. Without the mingd of Christ, you are at a disadvantage when discussing the spiritual things of God. Thatt is your choice however. The Bible tells us...

1Co 2:10  But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15  But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 

[QUOTE="pancreasjuice"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Yes through the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit, as I serve Christ and walk in the spirit.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

blackregiment

but my question is, why would you want to supress urges like lust?

Because according to God's standard of righteousness, lust is a sin against God. Sin has a price that must be paid when we stand in judgement before God.

wait, is lust the sin, or acting upon that lust the sin? cause lust its self is unavoidable, its just part of the way we're wired.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

 

Yes I have and the many of the hadiths as well. and have you ever read the complete Bible?

blackregiment

Comments like that do not help you credibility. Are you claiming omniscience? If so, how many hairs are of the back of a Tibetan Yak? What color shirt am I wearing right now? What is the temperature outside right now where I reside? What was the exact temperature on earth the day that the first cell magically sprang to life from non-living chemicals as your naturalisti faith proclaims? Exactly how many aminio acids were in the first protein that formed magically according to your religion of naturalism? How was the problem of chrialty overcome in that first protein that was "created" by the god of the naturalistic faith, "random chance"?Tell me, whatdo the "high priests of your faith, the scientists, teach as dogma? 

What a waste of a post that was :lol:

No doubt, by the way, you'll be able to explain what 'faith' you're referring to, and why it is faith. ;)

As for the 'chirality problem'... for a start, amino acids from space are significantly more left-handed than right-handed. Besides, some bacteria use right-handed amino acids. Anyway... given that 'The first self-replicator may have had eight or fewer types of amino acids (Cavalier-Smith 2001)'... well... (1/2)^8=1/128 (correct me if I'm wrong on that, I couldn't find a calculator :?). 1/128, when applied to billions upon billions of possibilities, suddenly becomes a lot less unlikely, wouldn't you say?

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="pancreasjuice"]

 

but my question is, why would you want to supress urges like lust?

pancreasjuice

Because according to God's standard of righteousness, lust is a sin against God. Sin has a price that must be paid when we stand in judgement before God.

wait, is lust the sin, or acting upon that lust the sin? cause lust its self is unavoidable, its just part of the way we're wired.

Both are a sin. Desires of the flesh are unavoidble when we choose to walk in the flesh. When we walk in the spirit in obedience to the Lord, through the power of the Holy Spirit in a born again Christian's life, they are.

Both are a sin. Desires of the flesh are unavoidble when we choose to walk in the flesh. When we walk in the spirit in obedience to the Lord, through the power of the Holy Spirit in a born again Christian's life, they are.

blackregiment

Both are a sin. Desires of the flesh are unavoidble when we choose to walk in the flesh. When we walk in the spirit in obedience to the Lord, through the power of the Holy Spirit in a born again Christian's life, they are.

blackregiment

Yeah, ok cool, but i like sex, i mean i really really reeeeeaaaaaally like it, like i mean alot! I mean more than i like games. (yeah, alot)

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

 

Yes through the guidance and power of the Holy Spirit, as I serve Christ and walk in the spirit. 

Gal 5:16  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
 

blackregiment

Your response doesn't suprise me. I wouldn't expect you to understand the spiritual things of God. Without the mingd of Christ, you are at a disadvantage when discussing the spiritual things of God. Thatt is your choice however. The Bible tells us...

1Co 2:10  But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15  But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 

No doubt, by the way, you'll be able to explain what 'faith' you're referring to, and why it is faith. ;)

Funky_Llama

Faith is an integral part of everything we do in life. For example, when you eat a bowl of cereal, you have faith that there is not a chemical that could be harmful to your body in the cereal that may have found its way into it during its manufacture, you have faith that there is not deadly bacteria in the milk. Do you do lab tests on these items to test their purity before you eat them? No, you eat them in faith that they are not harmful. The same can be said for hundreds of things you do each day in "faith".

When we speak of faith in the spiritual realm, the important thing is the object of our faith. Followers of Christ put their faith in Him. They trust in His Word and eternal promises. They receive confirmation of God's truth from the Holy Spirit that indwells them and experience positive changes in their lives by obedience to God's Word. They have a personal relationship with Christ.  

In your faith of naturalism, you place your faith in the words of fallen man, the interpretations and speculations of scientists regarding observations about our natural world. You put your faith in them, that their words and speculations are true and unbiased, and are not tainted by their worldview. You are trusting in their interpretations, that they are telling you the whole truth, that they are not withholding evidence that contradicts the dogma they are putting forth. Science by a self-imposed definition, limits its exploration to the natural world. God is supernatural. outside of the natural world, yet many scientists have tried to morph themselves and speculate on metaphysical things such as the existence of God. Science cannot and will not ever be able to "disprove" the existence of God, yet many pseudo scientists try to so that they can feel "intellectually fulfilled" in their rejection of God and His truth.   

In summary, followers of Christ put their faith in Him, His Word, their personal relationship with Him, and the testimony and power of the Holy Spirit working in their lives to perfect them towards righteousness.         

Followers of the religion of naturalism put their faith and trust in the words of man. They reject God, a spirit outside of the natural world, based on metaphysical conclusions by fallen man under the guise of pseudo science.  

There is only one truth, God's truth and as has been the case in the past and will continue to be the case in the future, scientific discoveries will conform to God's truth.  

Psa 118:8  Itis better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Sure you can :lol:Funky_Llama

Your response doesn't suprise me. I wouldn't expect you to understand the spiritual things of God. Without the mingd of Christ, you are at a disadvantage when discussing the spiritual things of God. Thatt is your choice however. The Bible tells us...

1Co 2:10  But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15  But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 

Like I said, the natural man is at a disadvantage when discussing the spiritual things of God and His power to change lives. Without Christ, you will remain burdened with that disadvantage.  That is your free will choice to make however. Only you, not I can do anything about that.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

No doubt, by the way, you'll be able to explain what 'faith' you're referring to, and why it is faith. ;)

blackregiment

Faith is an integral part of everything we do in life.

I have to agree with blackregiment on this one, everyone has to have faith in something, even those athiests like me out there, who believe everything to be explainable through some kind of scientific method, have to have faith, we have to have faith that the science is correct, its completely infeasible to look at every theory or law of physics out there, so we put our faith in the scientific method.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

 

Your response doesn't suprise me. I wouldn't expect you to understand the spiritual things of God. Without the mingd of Christ, you are at a disadvantage when discussing the spiritual things of God. Thatt is your choice however. The Bible tells us...

1Co 2:10  But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15  But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16  For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 

blackregiment

Like I said, the natural man is at a disadvantage when discussing the spiritual things of God and His power to change lives. Without Christ, you will remain burdened with that disadvantage.  That is your free will choice to make however. Only you, not I can do anything about that.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

No doubt, by the way, you'll be able to explain what 'faith' you're referring to, and why it is faith. ;)

blackregiment

Faith is an integral part of everything we do in life. For example, when you eat a bowl of cereal, you have faith that there is not a chemical that could be harmful to your body in the cereal that may have found its way into it during its manufacture, you have faith that there is not deadly bacteria in the milk. Do you do lab tests on these items to test their purity before you eat them? No, you eat them in faith that they are not harmful. The same can be said for hundreds of things you do each day in "faith".

When we speak of faith in the spiritual realm, the important thing is the object of our faith. Followers of Christ put their faith in Him. They trust in His Word and eternal promises. They receive confirmation of God's truth from the Holy Spirit that indwells them and experience positive changes in their lives by obedience to God's Word. They have a personal relationship with Christ.  

In your faith of naturalism, you place your faith in the words of fallen man, the interpretations and speculations of scientists regarding observations about our natural world. You put your faith in them, that their words and speculations are true and unbiased, and are not tainted by their worldview. You are trusting in their interpretations, that they are telling you the whole truth, that they are not withholding evidence that contradicts the dogma they are putting forth. Science by a self-imposed definition, limits its exploration to the natural world. God is supernatural. outside of the natural world, yet many scientists have tried to morph themselves and speculate on metaphysical things such as the existence of God. Science cannot and will not ever be able to "disprove" the existence of God, yet many pseudo scientists try to so that they can feel "intellectually fulfilled" in their rejection of God and His truth.   

In summary, followers of Christ put their faith in Him, His Word, their personal relationship with Him, and the testimony and power of the Holy Spirit working in their lives to perfect them towards righteousness.         

Followers of the religion of naturalism put their faith and trust in the words of man. They reject God, a spirit outside of the natural world, based on metaphysical conclusions by fallen man under the guise of pseudo science.  

There is only one truth, God's truth and as has been the case in the past and will continue to be the case in the future, scientific discoveries will conform to God's truth.  

Psa 118:8  Itis better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

Nor do I have faith in science, because, again, a core element of the scientific method is the admission that you can't be certain; that's why scientific findings are often extensively peer-reviewed.

Quite simply... how could I possibly have faith in anything when I don't claim to be certain of anything? I don't claim that God doesn't exist; I don't know either way. So how could there be faith involved there?

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

No doubt, by the way, you'll be able to explain what 'faith' you're referring to, and why it is faith. ;)

pancreasjuice

Faith is an integral part of everything we do in life.

I have to agree with blackregiment on this one, everyone has to have faith in something, even those athiests like me out there, who believe everything to be explainable through some kind of scientific method, have to have faith, we have to have faith that the science is correct, its completely infeasible to look at every theory or law of physics out there, so we put our faith in the scientific method.

I appreciate your honesty and your points are well taken. One point that I would like to add is that science is somewhat blind. It is simply a method to explore and  observe things and processes in the natural world. It makes no speculations or statements on its own. Scientists draw the conclusions and put forth their explanations. So, when we base our beliefs on the existence or non existence of God from the words and interpretations of scientists, we are putting our faith in the hope and trust that what they put forth is correct, honest, and objective, and unbiased by their worldview. That's the point I made in another post.   

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

No doubt, by the way, you'll be able to explain what 'faith' you're referring to, and why it is faith. ;)

pancreasjuice

Faith is an integral part of everything we do in life.

I have to agree with blackregiment on this one, everyone has to have faith in something, even those athiests like me out there, who believe everything to be explainable through some kind of scientific method, have to have faith, we have to have faith that the science is correct, its completely infeasible to look at every theory or law of physics out there, so we put our faith in the scientific method.

Not everyone. I don't have any faith, and I don't have any beliefs either.

[QUOTE="pancreasjuice"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

 

Faith is an integral part of everything we do in life. blackregiment

I have to agree with blackregiment on this one, everyone has to have faith in something, even those athiests like me out there, who believe everything to be explainable through some kind of scientific method, have to have faith, we have to have faith that the science is correct, its completely infeasible to look at every theory or law of physics out there, so we put our faith in the scientific method.

I appreciate your honesty and your points are well taken. One point that I would like to add is that science is somewhat blind. It is simply a method to explore and  observe things and processes in the natural world. It makes no speculations or statements on its own. Scientists draw the conclusions and put forth their explanations. So, when we base our beliefs on the existence or non existence of God from the words and interpretations of scientists, we are putting our faith in the hope and trust that what they put forth is correct, honest, and objective, and unbiased by their worldview. That's the point I made in another post.   

[QUOTE="pancreasjuice"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

 

Faith is an integral part of everything we do in life. Blood-Scribe

I have to agree with blackregiment on this one, everyone has to have faith in something, even those athiests like me out there, who believe everything to be explainable through some kind of scientific method, have to have faith, we have to have faith that the science is correct, its completely infeasible to look at every theory or law of physics out there, so we put our faith in the scientific method.

Not everyone. I don't have any faith, and I don't have any beliefs either.

[QUOTE="pancreasjuice"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Faith is an integral part of everything we do in life. blackregiment

I have to agree with blackregiment on this one, everyone has to have faith in something, even those athiests like me out there, who believe everything to be explainable through some kind of scientific method, have to have faith, we have to have faith that the science is correct, its completely infeasible to look at every theory or law of physics out there, so we put our faith in the scientific method.

I appreciate your honesty and your points are well taken. One point that I would like to add is that science is somewhat blind. It is simply a method to explore and observe things and processes in the natural world. It makes no speculations or statements on its own. Scientists draw the conclusions and put forth their explanations. So, when we base our beliefs on the existence or non existence of God from the words and interpretations of scientists, we are putting our faith in the hope and trust that what they put forth is correct, honest, and objective, and unbiased by their worldview. That's the point I made in another post.

its not the scientists who put forth their theorys that i put my faith in, its the scientific method, meaning that every theory out there, or law has gone through rigourous testing in the form of peer review. These millions of contributions, from millions of scources put together add up to the final theory. if it cant be reproduced, it cant be proven. this is the logic that stemed from those greek dudes thousands of years ago, the biggest critics of any science are the scientists themselves. In the end nothing is put forth that cant be proven, and to my knowledge there has never been any scientific move for or against the existence of any supernatural being, that has been accepted by the scientific community, as it can neither be proven or disproven.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="pancreasjuice"]

 

I have to agree with blackregiment on this one, everyone has to have faith in something, even those athiests like me out there, who believe everything to be explainable through some kind of scientific method, have to have faith, we have to have faith that the science is correct, its completely infeasible to look at every theory or law of physics out there, so we put our faith in the scientific method.

pancreasjuice

I appreciate your honesty and your points are well taken. One point that I would like to add is that science is somewhat blind. It is simply a method to explore and observe things and processes in the natural world. It makes no speculations or statements on its own. Scientists draw the conclusions and put forth their explanations. So, when we base our beliefs on the existence or non existence of God from the words and interpretations of scientists, we are putting our faith in the hope and trust that what they put forth is correct, honest, and objective, and unbiased by their worldview. That's the point I made in another post.

its not the scientists who put forth their theorys that i put my faith in, its the scientific method, meaning that every theory out there, or law has gone through rigourous testing in the form of peer review. These millions of contributions, from millions of scources put together add up to the final theory. if it cant be reproduced, it cant be proven. this is the logic that stemed from those greek dudes thousands of years ago, the biggest critics of any science are the scientists themselves. In the end nothing is put forth that cant be proven, and to my knowledge there has never been any scientific move for or against the existence of any supernatural being, that has been accepted by the scientific community, as it can neither be proven or disproven.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

No doubt, by the way, you'll be able to explain what 'faith' you're referring to, and why it is faith. ;)

Funky_Llama

Faith is an integral part of everything we do in life. For example, when you eat a bowl of cereal, you have faith that there is not a chemical that could be harmful to your body in the cereal that may have found its way into it during its manufacture, you have faith that there is not deadly bacteria in the milk. Do you do lab tests on these items to test their purity before you eat them? No, you eat them in faith that they are not harmful. The same can be said for hundreds of things you do each day in "faith".

When we speak of faith in the spiritual realm, the important thing is the object of our faith. Followers of Christ put their faith in Him. They trust in His Word and eternal promises. They receive confirmation of God's truth from the Holy Spirit that indwells them and experience positive changes in their lives by obedience to God's Word. They have a personal relationship with Christ.  

In your faith of naturalism, you place your faith in the words of fallen man, the interpretations and speculations of scientists regarding observations about our natural world. You put your faith in them, that their words and speculations are true and unbiased, and are not tainted by their worldview. You are trusting in their interpretations, that they are telling you the whole truth, that they are not withholding evidence that contradicts the dogma they are putting forth. Science by a self-imposed definition, limits its exploration to the natural world. God is supernatural. outside of the natural world, yet many scientists have tried to morph themselves and speculate on metaphysical things such as the existence of God. Science cannot and will not ever be able to "disprove" the existence of God, yet many pseudo scientists try to so that they can feel "intellectually fulfilled" in their rejection of God and His truth.   

In summary, followers of Christ put their faith in Him, His Word, their personal relationship with Him, and the testimony and power of the Holy Spirit working in their lives to perfect them towards righteousness.         

Followers of the religion of naturalism put their faith and trust in the words of man. They reject God, a spirit outside of the natural world, based on metaphysical conclusions by fallen man under the guise of pseudo science.  

There is only one truth, God's truth and as has been the case in the past and will continue to be the case in the future, scientific discoveries will conform to God's truth.  

Psa 118:8  Itis better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

Nor do I have faith in science, because, again, a core element of the scientific method is the admission that you can't be certain; that's why scientific findings are often extensively peer-reviewed.

Quite simply... how could I possibly have faith in anything when I don't claim to be certain of anything? I don't claim that God doesn't exist; I don't know either way. So how could there be faith involved there?

I wasn't implying that you "know for certain" that the cereal is not harmful. The point I was making was that you must have faith that it is not. Eating it without extensive testing requires faith.

I think that part of the problem, and I am not specifically referring to you, is that many people confuse practical science with forensic science. 

It is difficult for us to be 100 percent certain of anything. We will all always have doubts at times. When deciding on the accuracy of  historical event, we must examine all of the evidence we can get our hands on. We must critically analyze that evidence and think critically and reasonably about that evidence and come to our own conclusion based on the preponderance of the evidence. That is why I always tell people to examine the evidence for themselves. People should not just depend on what others say, if they are going to be intellectually honest with themselves, they must examine as much evidence as they can get their hands on.   

In regards to your last statement, you have faith in the fact that you "don't know" and I presume that also means that you have faith that you "can't know" since you feel that you cannot know anything with 100% certainty. That is how faith is involved. 

At some point, we must have faith in everything we believe, not blind faith, but faith based on an open and honest examination all of the evidence.   

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Faith is an integral part of everything we do in life. For example, when you eat a bowl of cereal, you have faith that there is not a chemical that could be harmful to your body in the cereal that may have found its way into it during its manufacture, you have faith that there is not deadly bacteria in the milk. Do you do lab tests on these items to test their purity before you eat them? No, you eat them in faith that they are not harmful. The same can be said for hundreds of things you do each day in "faith".

When we speak of faith in the spiritual realm, the important thing is the object of our faith. Followers of Christ put their faith in Him. They trust in His Word and eternal promises. They receive confirmation of God's truth from the Holy Spirit that indwells them and experience positive changes in their lives by obedience to God's Word. They have a personal relationship with Christ.  

In your faith of naturalism, you place your faith in the words of fallen man, the interpretations and speculations of scientists regarding observations about our natural world. You put your faith in them, that their words and speculations are true and unbiased, and are not tainted by their worldview. You are trusting in their interpretations, that they are telling you the whole truth, that they are not withholding evidence that contradicts the dogma they are putting forth. Science by a self-imposed definition, limits its exploration to the natural world. God is supernatural. outside of the natural world, yet many scientists have tried to morph themselves and speculate on metaphysical things such as the existence of God. Science cannot and will not ever be able to "disprove" the existence of God, yet many pseudo scientists try to so that they can feel "intellectually fulfilled" in their rejection of God and His truth.   

In summary, followers of Christ put their faith in Him, His Word, their personal relationship with Him, and the testimony and power of the Holy Spirit working in their lives to perfect them towards righteousness.         

Followers of the religion of naturalism put their faith and trust in the words of man. They reject God, a spirit outside of the natural world, based on metaphysical conclusions by fallen man under the guise of pseudo science.  

There is only one truth, God's truth and as has been the case in the past and will continue to be the case in the future, scientific discoveries will conform to God's truth.  

Psa 118:8  Itis better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

blackregiment

Nor do I have faith in science, because, again, a core element of the scientific method is the admission that you can't be certain; that's why scientific findings are often extensively peer-reviewed.

Quite simply... how could I possibly have faith in anything when I don't claim to be certain of anything? I don't claim that God doesn't exist; I don't know either way. So how could there be faith involved there?

I wasn't implying that you "know for certain" that the cereal is not harmful. The point I was making was that you must have faith that it is not. Eating it without extensive testing requires faith.

I think that part of the problem, and I am not specifically referring to you, is that many people confuse practical science with forensic science. 

It is difficult for us to be 100 percent certain of anything. We will all always have doubts at times. When deciding on the accuracy of  historical event, we must examine all of the evidence we can get our hands on. We must critically analyze that evidence and think critically and reasonably about that evidence and come to our own conclusion based on the preponderance of the evidence. That is why I always tell people to examine the evidence for themselves. People should not just depend on what others say, if they are going to be intellectually honest with themselves, they must examine as much evidence as they can get their hands on.   

In regards to your last statement, you have faith in the fact that you "don't know" and I presume that also means that you have faith that you "can't know" since you feel that you cannot know anything with 100% certainty. That is how faith is involved. 

At some point, we must have faith in everything we believe, not blind faith, but faith based on an open and honest examination all of the evidence.   

And actually, I don't have faith that I don't know. Perhaps I do know. Perhaps I know that I don't know. I just don't know. :P

Anyway... surely 'faith based on an open and honest examination of all the evidence' is not faith at all, given that faith is belief without proof.

[QUOTE="pancreasjuice"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

 

I appreciate your honesty and your points are well taken. One point that I would like to add is that science is somewhat blind. It is simply a method to explore and observe things and processes in the natural world. It makes no speculations or statements on its own. Scientists draw the conclusions and put forth their explanations. So, when we base our beliefs on the existence or non existence of God from the words and interpretations of scientists, we are putting our faith in the hope and trust that what they put forth is correct, honest, and objective, and unbiased by their worldview. That's the point I made in another post.

Funky_Llama

its not the scientists who put forth their theorys that i put my faith in, its the scientific method, meaning that every theory out there, or law has gone through rigourous testing in the form of peer review. These millions of contributions, from millions of scources put together add up to the final theory. if it cant be reproduced, it cant be proven. this is the logic that stemed from those greek dudes thousands of years ago, the biggest critics of any science are the scientists themselves. In the end nothing is put forth that cant be proven, and to my knowledge there has never been any scientific move for or against the existence of any supernatural being, that has been accepted by the scientific community, as it can neither be proven or disproven.

I am not saying it isn't. The scientific method does not speculate or put forth scientific papers, scientists do. The faith part refers not to the scientific method, it refers to the speculations and interpretations of what the scientists put forth in their conclusions, especially the metaphysical ones. .   

I am not saying it isn't. The scientific method does not speculate or put forth scientific papers, scientists do. The faith part refers not to the scientific method, it refers to the speculations and interpretations of what the scientists put forth in their conclusions, especially the metaphysical ones. .

blackregiment

i disagree, it is not in the propositions of the individual scientists, that i put my faith in, it is the extensive peer review that i have faith in to decide whether those propositions are reasonably and logically thought out and thus proven, and so it is the method that i put my faith in.

[QUOTE="Blood-Scribe"][QUOTE="pancreasjuice"]

 

I have to agree with blackregiment on this one, everyone has to have faith in something, even those athiests like me out there, who believe everything to be explainable through some kind of scientific method, have to have faith, we have to have faith that the science is correct, its completely infeasible to look at every theory or law of physics out there, so we put our faith in the scientific method.

Funky_Llama

Not everyone. I don't have any faith, and I don't have any beliefs either.

Not necessarily, since it's possible that I do without knowing it. I'd say it's likely that there's plenty of things about myself that I don't know about. But for now from what I would think that I know, I'd say it's likely that I don't have any as of now since when I discarded them.

Having not read the thousand or so posts leading up to the current conversation, I'll just wing it and hope for the best.

I think I am a good person. I'm not a saint, I steal, I lust, I hate, but when everything goes to pot, I'll try to help other people when some of the "good" people won't care. I think the very question the TC asked is flawed. Good in who's eyes? Your own? Your freinds? The peple you live with? The guy living on the street? The poverty stricken woman on the other side of the world who makes your clothes? Or the christians in the church?

The TC reminds me of my freind who asks the same thing all the time, almost as if he is wanting a certain answer. Of course everyone (or nearly everyone) has done everything on the list. We are only human. Remember that.

And now I feel like an anti-preist :P.

That is such a predictable response. It comes up frequently in threads discussing the things of God. The Word of God is offensive to the world. The world is always trying to silence discussions of things of God. 

Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 

What puzzles me though is this. I may be mistaken, and I stand corrected if I am, but in an earlier post I thought you said you are a Christian. If that is the case, it puzzles me as to why you would suggest ending a thread in which spiritual things of God are being discussed. That plea usually is iniated by the non-believers, not Christians. Just wondering....   

blackregiment

I said we should let this topic die because it is getting too large, and every time someone bumps it, more recent topics are bumped down. I said the same thing on the "post your face" topic. It has nothing to do with what the topic is discussing. 

There are many things that we must change in our lives if we are to live in obedience to God's Word and will. We can either wlak in the spirit and serve God, or walk in the flesh and serve our worldly fleshy desires. The choice we make will lead to different ends.

God gave us a free will to make that choice,  

blackregiment

Again, he's all power-full.  A few years I wouldn't have minded him changing that about me.  But I guess it's always more amusing to make people want what they can't have.  

Says the Lord, the team captain.blackregiment

and why should he, if he is all good and able to change the rules at will? 

[QUOTE="dog64"]

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]...Before I began, I prayed and asked God to show me, convince me that He was real I asked Him to lead me to the truth whatever that truth may be...I studied the evidence in many areas and came to a faith in Him and His Word. The many, many doubts I had were removed one by one....   blackregiment

Many people say the same thing about their faith. They pray and ask god to show them the way, and they find themselves in a particular religion. Then they say "This must be the answer".But if only one religion is truth, then many of these "experiences" are false. What makes you so certain?

The personal testimony of the Holy Spirt as well as the positive changes and corrections in my life wrought through the power of God's Word and the Holy Spirit working in my life, as well the observation of this same power to change the lives of countless others.    

Isn't that the same answer any other religious person would give? Every person who is seriously religious will tell you their experiences of them receiving god's blessing. And if someone is seriously ill or in the hospital, they may ask god for help, and if they get better than they thank god for that. Then they, too, may turn religious. See, there are many things that lead people to one particular religion. But, again, if there is only one truth, how would you tell these people "No, your in a false religion. I'm in the true one. Follow me" ?

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="dog64"]

 

Many people say the same thing about their faith. They pray and ask god to show them the way, and they find themselves in a particular religion. Then they say "This must be the answer".But if only one religion is truth, then many of these "experiences" are false. What makes you so certain?

dog64

The personal testimony of the Holy Spirt as well as the positive changes and corrections in my life wrought through the power of God's Word and the Holy Spirit working in my life, as well the observation of this same power to change the lives of countless others.    

Isn't that the same answer any other religious person would give? Every person who is seriously religious will tell you their experiences of them receiving god's blessing. And if someone is seriously ill or in the hospital, they may ask god for help, and if they get better than they thank god for that. Then they, too, may turn religious. See, there are many things that lead people to one particular religion. But, again, if there is only one truth, how would you tell these people "No, your in a false religion. I'm in the true one. Follow me" ?

I cannot speak for other religions, I can only speak from personal experience based on the dozens and dozens of people that I have encountered and heard their testimony.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Says the Lord, the team captain.Hewkii

and why should he, if he is all good and able to change the rules at will? 

Because He is God and works His plan at His pleasure, not yours. God's standards for righteousness are absolute and unchanging. 

What dog64 said.

Or, to put it a different way, can you offer any evidence that the life-changing power (or whatever you want to call it) of Christianity is any more real/valid than that of any other religion?

Qooroo

I addressed that in another post.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

There are many things that we must change in our lives if we are to live in obedience to God's Word and will. We can either wlak in the spirit and serve God, or walk in the flesh and serve our worldly fleshy desires. The choice we make will lead to different ends.

God gave us a free will to make that choice,  

Dark_Knight6

Again, he's all power-full.  A few years I wouldn't have minded him changing that about me.  But I guess it's always more amusing to make people want what they can't have.  

I really don't understand your last statement. It appears that you might be blaming God. God does not cause you to disobeyHim and sin.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

That is such a predictable response. It comes up frequently in threads discussing the things of God. The Word of God is offensive to the world. The world is always trying to silence discussions of things of God. 

Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 

What puzzles me though is this. I may be mistaken, and I stand corrected if I am, but in an earlier post I thought you said you are a Christian. If that is the case, it puzzles me as to why you would suggest ending a thread in which spiritual things of God are being discussed. That plea usually is iniated by the non-believers, not Christians. Just wondering....   

harashawn

I said we should let this topic die because it is getting too large, and every time someone bumps it, more recent topics are bumped down. I said the same thing on the "post your face" topic. It has nothing to do with what the topic is discussing. 

Well OK, if that flosts your boat. I didn't realize that there were those that were so concerned about the order of threads in a master list. Is that really that important in the grand scheme of things?   

I cannot speak for other religions, I can only speak from personal experience based on the dozens and dozens of people that I have encountered and heard their testimony.

blackregiment

You must have an answer as to why all other religions are "false", but yet there are countless people in these religions that claim to receive gods help and blessing just as you do. If you have no answer, then does that mean that god helps and blesses people that are not in his chosen religion; people that he does not approve of?

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

I am not saying it isn't. The scientific method does not speculate or put forth scientific papers, scientists do. The faith part refers not to the scientific method, it refers to the speculations and interpretations of what the scientists put forth in their conclusions, especially the metaphysical ones. .

pancreasjuice

i disagree, it is not in the propositions of the individual scientists, that i put my faith in, it is the extensive peer review that i have faith in to decide whether those propositions are reasonably and logically thought out and thus proven, and so it is the method that i put my faith in.

I understand but that is still relying on the words of man. Truth is not determined by majority opinion. If you an an example of that look at the man-made global warming controversy. Al Gore is searching for votes for his crumbling theory harder than he did in Florida in 2000.Just look at the miscalculations of NASA regarding the world temperature in October.

I really don't understand your last statement. It appears that you might be blaming God. God does not cause you to disobeyHim and sin.

blackregiment

Well, something caused it.  And, if God created me then I can't see how he isn't responsible.  

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

I cannot speak for other religions, I can only speak from personal experience based on the dozens and dozens of people that I have encountered and heard their testimony.

dog64

You must have an answer as to why all other religions are "false", but yet there are countless people in these religions that claim to receive gods help and blessing just as you do. If you have no answer, then does that mean that god helps and blesses people that are not in his chosen religion; people that he does not approve of?

Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, Iamtheway,thetruth,andthelife:no mancomethuntotheFather,butbyme.

Joh 3:35  The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Joh 3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Here are three links that will give you the information you are looking for.

http://www.gotquestions.org/so-many-religions.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/correct-religion.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/Christianity-unique.html

1Jn 5:11  And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1Jn 5:12  He that hath the Son hath life: and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1Jn 5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

I really don't understand your last statement. It appears that you might be blaming God. God does not cause you to disobeyHim and sin.

Dark_Knight6

Well, something caused it.  And, if God created me then I can't see how he isn't responsible.  

God does not control your free will to choose obedience to Him, you do. Rather than play victim and blame God or others, we must take personal responsibility for our lives and our actions. When one accepts Christ and is obedient to God's Word and will, God will work in their lives to correct them in areas that need correction. Without Christ we are separated from God. People expect God to answer their prayers, help them with their problems, and bless them without any demands or obligation on them.It doesn't work that way. When we are separated from God because we don't have Christ, God will not hear or answer our prayers. If we expect God to help us, we must first submit to Him and be obedient to what He has said. 

God does not control your free will to choose obedience to Him, you do. Rather than play victim and blame God or others, we must take personal responsibility for our lives and our actions.

blackregiment

Sexual preference has nothing to do with free will.  You don't choose who you are attracted to.