does god really love us? maybe god is evil?

Um. Omnipotence does not mean God controls everything. That is eons away from the definition of omnipotence.:|

God caused all those viruses? I thought they evolved on their own after millions of years.. .

Dracargen

If you are all powerful then you control everything, it cannot be any other way. with great power comes great responsibility and with the greatest power comes the greatest responsibility. All powerful means he is responsible for everything by either making it happen or failing to stop it from happening, when you have inifinite power they are one and the same.

Thats exactly my point, it makes much more sense for those terrible viruses and diseases to have evolved randomly than or god to have designed them to plague us, unless he wanted to cause great suffering and loss to all creatures, humans and animals alike.

[QUOTE="qetuo6"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="qetuo6"]Not much choice if the alternative is Hell... and I'm sure that God would understand that he made it so it was impossible for me to believe in him and forgive me.Dracargen

It is obviously not impossible for you to believe in Him since two billion others already do.

You said it is impossible to believe in God. Two billion people believe in God. Therefore, it is possible to believe in God.

If it is impossible for you yourself to believe in God, then please explain why that is, and explain why that is God's fault.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="qetuo6"]Since I was created to require logic when it comes to things of this caliber, and religion has none, I can't accept it. Religion is a triangle, my mind is a circle. (In case you are wondering, the two shapes don't matter, as long as they are not the same, the metaphor works fine.qetuo6

Religion doesn't use logic? That is your opinion. As Galileo said, "I'm not inclined to believe the same God who blessed us with logic and reason intended us to forgo their use."

Galileo was a devoted Christian.

And no, his teachings did not go against the Church's. The Church openly accepted his theories, until Galileo began to try to alter the Bible to fit his own interpretation. Then and only then was he tried for heresy, and frankly, the Church was in the right. His theories were discounted because to acknowledge them was to acknowledge the theorist, and to do that, the Church would have to admit fault. They could not do so, so the theory was discounted.

Had Galileo not messed with the Church and the Bible, he would have gotten off scott-free.

[QUOTE="qetuo6"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="qetuo6"]Since I was created to require logic when it comes to things of this caliber, and religion has none, I can't accept it. Religion is a triangle, my mind is a circle. (In case you are wondering, the two shapes don't matter, as long as they are not the same, the metaphor works fine.Dracargen

Religion doesn't use logic? That is your opinion. As Galileo said, "I'm not inclined to believe the same God who blessed us with logic and reason intended us to forgo their use."

Galileo was a devoted Christian.

And no, his teachings did not go against the Chruch's. The Church openly accepted his theories, until Galileo began to try to alter the Bible to fit his own interpretation. Then and only then was he tried for heresy, and frankly, the Church was in the right. His theories were discounted because to acknowledge them was to acknowledge the theorist, and to do that, the Church would have to admit fault. They could not do so, so the theory was discounted.

Has Galileo not messed with the Church and the Bible, he would have gotten off scott-free.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Um. Omnipotence does not mean God controls everything. That is eons away from the definition of omnipotence.:|

God caused all those viruses? I thought they evolved on their own after millions of years.. .

Loonie

If you are all powerful then you control everything, it cannot be any other way. with great power comes great responsibility and with the greatest power comes the greatest responsibility. All powerful means he is responsible for everything by either making it happen or failing to stop it from happening, when you have inifinite power they are one and the same.

Thats exactly my point, it makes much more sense for those terrible viruses and diseases to have evolved randomly than or god to have designed them to plague us, unless he wanted to cause great suffering and loss to all creatures, humans and animals alike.

What if God decides to omit control over nature? Then nature operates on its' own. Omnipotence means you can do anything; Not that you are required to.

I believe in God and evolution. . .

Yeah what good creates the cows that you get you milk from or the pigs you get your meat from? Then again you must be an animal cause you eat other animals am i wrong?

123625

Yes, humans are animals. Anyway, my question was what kind of all powerful, kind, just God creates herbivores and then creates carnivores? Whose sole means of survival is to kill and then devour other animals?

I agree with Galileo (Who, by the way, went against the teachings of the church my saying that the sun was at the center of the galaxy)qetuo6

Uhhh, no. The church said the earth was the centre of the universe and the sun orbited the earth. There is a supermassive blackhole at the centre of the galaxy, our sun is drifting between two of the galaxies spirals near the edge of the galaxy.

Atheism doesn't make sense to me because things like moral reletivism, the universe coming into existence on its' own by complete chance, and other beliefs that are associated with atheism don't make any sense.Dracargen

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="qetuo6"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="qetuo6"]Since I was created to require logic when it comes to things of this caliber, and religion has none, I can't accept it. Religion is a triangle, my mind is a circle. (In case you are wondering, the two shapes don't matter, as long as they are not the same, the metaphor works fine.qetuo6

Religion doesn't use logic? That is your opinion. As Galileo said, "I'm not inclined to believe the same God who blessed us with logic and reason intended us to forgo their use."

Galileo was a devoted Christian.

And no, his teachings did not go against the Chruch's. The Church openly accepted his theories, until Galileo began to try to alter the Bible to fit his own interpretation. Then and only then was he tried for heresy, and frankly, the Church was in the right. His theories were discounted because to acknowledge them was to acknowledge the theorist, and to do that, the Church would have to admit fault. They could not do so, so the theory was discounted.

Has Galileo not messed with the Church and the Bible, he would have gotten off scott-free.

The Bible does not say so.

In fact, a priest FROM GALILEO'S TIME said that "The Bible tells us how to get to Heaven--not how the Heavens work."

He said that after Galileo introduced his theories. The Church agreed.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]Atheism doesn't make sense to me because things like moral reletivism, the universe coming into existence on its' own by complete chance, and other beliefs that are associated with atheism don't make any sense.SolidSnake35

No. . .not really.:|

Anyway, if God said He created it, then why not believe God who, by definition, cannot lie?

[QUOTE="qetuo6"] I agree with Galileo (Who, by the way, went against the teachings of the church my saying that the sun was at the center of the galaxy)Loonie

Uhhh, no. The church said the earth was the centre of the universe and the sun orbited the earth. There is a supermassive blackhole at the centre of the galaxy, our sun is drifting between two of the galaxies spirals near the edge of the galaxy.

[QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Um. Omnipotence does not mean God controls everything. That is eons away from the definition of omnipotence.:|

God caused all those viruses? I thought they evolved on their own after millions of years.. .

Dracargen

If you are all powerful then you control everything, it cannot be any other way. with great power comes great responsibility and with the greatest power comes the greatest responsibility. All powerful means he is responsible for everything by either making it happen or failing to stop it from happening, when you have inifinite power they are one and the same.

Thats exactly my point, it makes much more sense for those terrible viruses and diseases to have evolved randomly than or god to have designed them to plague us, unless he wanted to cause great suffering and loss to all creatures, humans and animals alike.

What if God decides to omit control over nature? Then nature operates on its' own. Omnipotence means you can do anything; Not that you are required to.

I believe in God and evolution. . .

If you are all powerful and decide not to act you are equally responsible. He is being cruel and evil with his negligence, aloowing suffering and death to take place which he could prevent with no effort on his part.

Honestly I have no problem with people who believe in god but accept evolution. If believing in god makes you happy and you feel you need some sort of incentive to act god then fine, knock yourself out.

[QUOTE="123625"]

Yeah what good creates the cows that you get you milk from or the pigs you get your meat from? Then again you must be an animal cause you eat other animals am i wrong?

thirstychainsaw

Yes, humans are animals. Anyway, my question was what kind of all powerful, kind, just God creates herbivores and then creates carnivores? Whose sole means of survival is to kill and then devour other animals?

God thats who, Its a simple answer. God is god and create whoever or whatever he wants. Besides animals are shown not to have human emotions so why does it matter to them? Its natural part of the life he had intended for us.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]Atheism doesn't make sense to me because things like moral reletivism, the universe coming into existence on its' own by complete chance, and other beliefs that are associated with atheism don't make any sense.Dracargen

No. . .not really.:|

Anyway, if God said He created it, then why not believe God who, by definition, cannot lie?

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]Atheism doesn't make sense to me because things like moral reletivism, the universe coming into existence on its' own by complete chance, and other beliefs that are associated with atheism don't make any sense.Dracargen

No. . .not really.:|

Anyway, if God said He created it, then why not believe God who, by definition, cannot lie?

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

Um. Omnipotence does not mean God controls everything. That is eons away from the definition of omnipotence.:|

God caused all those viruses? I thought they evolved on their own after millions of years.. .

Loonie

If you are all powerful then you control everything, it cannot be any other way. with great power comes great responsibility and with the greatest power comes the greatest responsibility. All powerful means he is responsible for everything by either making it happen or failing to stop it from happening, when you have inifinite power they are one and the same.

Thats exactly my point, it makes much more sense for those terrible viruses and diseases to have evolved randomly than or god to have designed them to plague us, unless he wanted to cause great suffering and loss to all creatures, humans and animals alike.

What if God decides to omit control over nature? Then nature operates on its' own. Omnipotence means you can do anything; Not that you are required to.

I believe in God and evolution. . .

If you are all powerful and decide not to act you are equally responsible. He is being cruel and evil with his negligence, aloowing suffering and death to take place which he could prevent with no effort on his part.

Honestly I have no problem with people who believe in god but accept evolution. If believing in god makes you happy and you feel you need some sort of incentive to act god then fine, knock yourself out.

So god is evil for making us?

Galileo was a devoted Christian.

And no, his teachings did not go against the Church's. The Church openly accepted his theories, until Galileo began to try to alter the Bible to fit his own interpretation. Then and only then was he tried for heresy, and frankly, the Church was in the right. His theories were discounted because to acknowledge them was to acknowledge the theorist, and to do that, the Church would have to admit fault. They could not do so, so the theory was discounted.

Had Galileo not messed with the Church and the Bible, he would have gotten off scott-free.

Dracargen

How can you possibly know galileo was a devoted christian? If i was around during a time when you could get burned at the stake for heresy then i would be a 'devoted' christian as well. i.e. i wouldnt be, but thats what i would tell everyone

[QUOTE="qetuo6"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="qetuo6"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="qetuo6"]Since I was created to require logic when it comes to things of this caliber, and religion has none, I can't accept it. Religion is a triangle, my mind is a circle. (In case you are wondering, the two shapes don't matter, as long as they are not the same, the metaphor works fine.Dracargen

Religion doesn't use logic? That is your opinion. As Galileo said, "I'm not inclined to believe the same God who blessed us with logic and reason intended us to forgo their use."

Galileo was a devoted Christian.

And no, his teachings did not go against the Chruch's. The Church openly accepted his theories, until Galileo began to try to alter the Bible to fit his own interpretation. Then and only then was he tried for heresy, and frankly, the Church was in the right. His theories were discounted because to acknowledge them was to acknowledge the theorist, and to do that, the Church would have to admit fault. They could not do so, so the theory was discounted.

Has Galileo not messed with the Church and the Bible, he would have gotten off scott-free.

The Bible does not say so.

In fact, a priest FROM GALILEO'S TIME said that "The Bible tells us how to get to Heaven--not how the Heavens work."

He said that after Galileo introduced his theories. The Church agreed.

If you are all powerful and decide not to act you are equally responsible. He is being cruel and evil with his negligence, aloowing suffering and death to take place which he could prevent with no effort on his part.

Loonie

Let us assume you are correct. This leaves some questions:

How can God prevent such things without withholding free will at the same time?

If God prevents one act of evil, He must prevent all of it. What if He does not?

Can there be no positive use for suffering?

What defines suffering? Is it a scraped knee, or genocide? Is God required to prevent all forms of pain, no matter how minor?

Is there any form of evil that does not derive itself from good? What I mean is, most (if not all) evil is a perversion of good. To get rid of evil, should God get rid of good?

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]Atheism doesn't make sense to me because things like moral reletivism, the universe coming into existence on its' own by complete chance, and other beliefs that are associated with atheism don't make any sense.quiglythegreat

No. . .not really.:|

Anyway, if God said He created it, then why not believe God who, by definition, cannot lie?

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]Atheism doesn't make sense to me because things like moral reletivism, the universe coming into existence on its' own by complete chance, and other beliefs that are associated with atheism don't make any sense.SolidSnake35

No. . .not really.:|

Anyway, if God said He created it, then why not believe God who, by definition, cannot lie?

He kinda did.:| But then that leaves the question "How do you know it is from God?"

So god is evil for making us?123625

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]Can't he give us an explanation of how he did it? SolidSnake35

[QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="123625"]

Yeah what good creates the cows that you get you milk from or the pigs you get your meat from? Then again you must be an animal cause you eat other animals am i wrong?

123625

Yes, humans are animals. Anyway, my question was what kind of all powerful, kind, just God creates herbivores and then creates carnivores? Whose sole means of survival is to kill and then devour other animals?

God thats who, Its a simple answer. God is god and create whoever or whatever he wants. Besides animals are shown not to have human emotions so why does it matter to them? Its natural part of the life he had intended for us.

Animals are shown not to have human emotions, eh? BS, firstly when you say animals thats a very broad range of creatures, and no doubt you include creatures like elephants, who mate with one partner for life, more than can be said for the majority of humans. And gorillas, who cry. There was a gorilla on bbc2 recently who was crying after one of the other gorillas in lived with died.

People who say animals are not capable of emotion make me sick, and they only say it to make themselves feel superior and so they dont feel guilty about eating them.

People who say animals are not capable of emotion make me sick, and they only say it to make themselves feel superior and so they dont feel guilty about eating them.

Loonie

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]Galileo was a devoted Christian.

And no, his teachings did not go against the Church's. The Church openly accepted his theories, until Galileo began to try to alter the Bible to fit his own interpretation. Then and only then was he tried for heresy, and frankly, the Church was in the right. His theories were discounted because to acknowledge them was to acknowledge the theorist, and to do that, the Church would have to admit fault. They could not do so, so the theory was discounted.

Had Galileo not messed with the Church and the Bible, he would have gotten off scott-free.

Loonie

How can you possibly know galileo was a devoted christian? If i was around during a time when you could get burned at the stake for heresy then i would be a 'devoted' christian as well. i.e. i wouldnt be, but thats what i would tell everyone

Even in his private times when he was under house arrest, he stated he believed in God and he believed he could do so with reason.

[QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="123625"]

Yeah what good creates the cows that you get you milk from or the pigs you get your meat from? Then again you must be an animal cause you eat other animals am i wrong?

123625

Yes, humans are animals. Anyway, my question was what kind of all powerful, kind, just God creates herbivores and then creates carnivores? Whose sole means of survival is to kill and then devour other animals?

God thats who, Its a simple answer. God is god and create whoever or whatever he wants. Besides animals are shown not to have human emotions so why does it matter to them? Its natural part of the life he had intended for us.

What? Animals don't show human behavior?

On the news a whale and her baby were attacked by a pod of killer whales, the mother whale stayed with the baby until they hit shallow water where the killer whales retreated. The mother could have just left but stayed with her offspring.

Dire wolves were discovered with traumatic head or leg injuries but the thing was their bones were partially healed, showing dire wolves fed their sick or injured.

When a pride of lions managed to pull a bison from his herd, the herd attempted a rescue.

Pengiuns as well as other animals are mates for life.

Dogs, don't even get me started on dogs.

Human enough for you? And again, what kind of all powerful being creates something who only knows to end another beings life?

[QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="123625"]

Yeah what good creates the cows that you get you milk from or the pigs you get your meat from? Then again you must be an animal cause you eat other animals am i wrong?

123625

Yes, humans are animals. Anyway, my question was what kind of all powerful, kind, just God creates herbivores and then creates carnivores? Whose sole means of survival is to kill and then devour other animals?

God thats who, Its a simple answer. God is god and create whoever or whatever he wants. Besides animals are shown not to have human emotions so why does it matter to them? Its natural part of the life he had intended for us.

[QUOTE="Loonie"]

If you are all powerful and decide not to act you are equally responsible. He is being cruel and evil with his negligence, aloowing suffering and death to take place which he could prevent with no effort on his part.

Dracargen

Let us assume you are correct. This leaves some questions:

How can God prevent such things without withholding free will at the same time?

What does free will have to do with earthquakes, disease, drought, viruses, hurricanes? Nothing, its just a crutch for your argument.

[QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]Galileo was a devoted Christian.

And no, his teachings did not go against the Church's. The Church openly accepted his theories, until Galileo began to try to alter the Bible to fit his own interpretation. Then and only then was he tried for heresy, and frankly, the Church was in the right. His theories were discounted because to acknowledge them was to acknowledge the theorist, and to do that, the Church would have to admit fault. They could not do so, so the theory was discounted.

Had Galileo not messed with the Church and the Bible, he would have gotten off scott-free.

Dracargen

How can you possibly know galileo was a devoted christian? If i was around during a time when you could get burned at the stake for heresy then i would be a 'devoted' christian as well. i.e. i wouldnt be, but thats what i would tell everyone

Even in his private times when he was under house arrest, he stated he believed in God and he believed he could do so with reason.

Ah right, you know this because you were there of course. Either that or you could somehow know galileo's mind without ever meeting him. Even if galileo was a devouted christian its a moot point and changes nothing, i just wanted to point out you couldnt possibly know this as fact.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]Can't he give us an explanation of how he did it? SolidSnake35

Better restore that faith with some thinking.

The Bible, if it is from God, should be expected to concur with facts. How can we know it does? By examining history and archaeology. Did the events in the Bible actually happen? Were there witnesses? Were they reliable? Did they exist?

In the end, faith is required. . . we don't have absolute knowledge that the Bible is simply made up. Bu ththe possibility that it is made up doesn't mean it is. Faith is important, but you can get to that step with reason alone.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]Galileo was a devoted Christian.

And no, his teachings did not go against the Church's. The Church openly accepted his theories, until Galileo began to try to alter the Bible to fit his own interpretation. Then and only then was he tried for heresy, and frankly, the Church was in the right. His theories were discounted because to acknowledge them was to acknowledge the theorist, and to do that, the Church would have to admit fault. They could not do so, so the theory was discounted.

Had Galileo not messed with the Church and the Bible, he would have gotten off scott-free.

Loonie

How can you possibly know galileo was a devoted christian? If i was around during a time when you could get burned at the stake for heresy then i would be a 'devoted' christian as well. i.e. i wouldnt be, but thats what i would tell everyone

Even in his private times when he was under house arrest, he stated he believed in God and he believed he could do so with reason.

Ah right, you know this because you were there of course. Either that or you could somehow know galileo's mind without ever meeting him. Even if galileo was a devouted christian its a moot point and changes nothing, i just wanted to point out you couldnt possibly know this as fact.

Galileo had journals, I believe. . .

Anyway, I couldn't know this as a fact. . .but then again, niether can you know for a fact he wasn't. Saying I can't know something 100% is on par with saying evolution is just a theory. . .

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Loonie"]

If you are all powerful and decide not to act you are equally responsible. He is being cruel and evil with his negligence, aloowing suffering and death to take place which he could prevent with no effort on his part.

Loonie

Let us assume you are correct. This leaves some questions:

How can God prevent such things without withholding free will at the same time?

What does free will have to do with earthquakes, disease, drought, viruses, hurricanes? Nothing, its just a crutch for your argument.

I had about six other questions. One of them was "If God is required to help with some suffering, then He is required to help with it all."

Answer them, please.

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="123625"]

Yeah what good creates the cows that you get you milk from or the pigs you get your meat from? Then again you must be an animal cause you eat other animals am i wrong?

thirstychainsaw

Yes, humans are animals. Anyway, my question was what kind of all powerful, kind, just God creates herbivores and then creates carnivores? Whose sole means of survival is to kill and then devour other animals?

God thats who, Its a simple answer. God is god and create whoever or whatever he wants. Besides animals are shown not to have human emotions so why does it matter to them? Its natural part of the life he had intended for us.

What? Animals don't show human behavior?

On the news a whale and her baby were attacked by a pod of killer whales, the mother whale stayed with the baby until they hit shallow water where the killer whales retreated. The mother could have just left but stayed with her offspring.

Dire wolves were discovered with traumatic head or leg injuries but the thing was their bones were partially healed, showing dire wolves fed their sick or injured.

When a pride of lions managed to pull a bison from his herd, the herd attempted a rescue.

Pengiuns as well as other animals are mates for life.

Dogs, don't even get me started on dogs.

Human enough for you? And again, what kind of all powerful being creates something who only knows to end another beings life?

Sorry ill admit i didnt think about those things and i am wrong for that. But animals dont show all the emotions that we humans are capable of though right? Is an animal capable of thinking of revenge?

[QUOTE="Loonie"]

People who say animals are not capable of emotion make me sick, and they only say it to make themselves feel superior and so they dont feel guilty about eating them.

quiglythegreat

I like cows, they are sort of friendly in a dopey sort of way. Plus i love milk... and yeah they do taste good, not as good as lambs though, gotta love feasting on the children of sheep.

if u go further back..god created serpant...god is not evil...just mis understoodtacosrule193

Just....stop.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]Can't he give us an explanation of how he did it? Dracargen

Better restore that faith with some thinking.

The Bible, if it is from God, should be expected to concur with facts. How can we know it does? By examining history and archaeology. Did the events in the Bible actually happen? Were there witnesses? Were they reliable? Did they exist?

In the end, faith is required. . . we don't have absolute knowledge that the Bible is simply made up. Bu ththe possibility that it is made up doesn't mean it is. Faith is important, but you can get to that step with reason alone.

Sorry ill admit i didnt think about those things and i am wrong for that. But animals dont show all the emotions that we humans are capable of though right? Is an animal capable of thinking of revenge?

123625

Yeah of course they are. They wont make some master plan or go about it in a clever way but they will bite you in the ass.

Is an animal capable of thinking of revenge? 123625

[QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="123625"]

Yeah what good creates the cows that you get you milk from or the pigs you get your meat from? Then again you must be an animal cause you eat other animals am i wrong?

123625

Yes, humans are animals. Anyway, my question was what kind of all powerful, kind, just God creates herbivores and then creates carnivores? Whose sole means of survival is to kill and then devour other animals?

God thats who, Its a simple answer. God is god and create whoever or whatever he wants. Besides animals are shown not to have human emotions so why does it matter to them? Its natural part of the life he had intended for us.

What? Animals don't show human behavior?

On the news a whale and her baby were attacked by a pod of killer whales, the mother whale stayed with the baby until they hit shallow water where the killer whales retreated. The mother could have just left but stayed with her offspring.

Dire wolves were discovered with traumatic head or leg injuries but the thing was their bones were partially healed, showing dire wolves fed their sick or injured.

When a pride of lions managed to pull a bison from his herd, the herd attempted a rescue.

Pengiuns as well as other animals are mates for life.

Dogs, don't even get me started on dogs.

Human enough for you? And again, what kind of all powerful being creates something who only knows to end another beings life?

Sorry ill admit i didnt think about those things and i am wrong for that. But animals dont show all the emotions that we humans are capable of though right? Is an animal capable of thinking of revenge?

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]Can't he give us an explanation of how he did it? SolidSnake35

Better restore that faith with some thinking.

The Bible, if it is from God, should be expected to concur with facts. How can we know it does? By examining history and archaeology. Did the events in the Bible actually happen? Were there witnesses? Were they reliable? Did they exist?

In the end, faith is required. . . we don't have absolute knowledge that the Bible is simply made up. Bu ththe possibility that it is made up doesn't mean it is. Faith is important, but you can get to that step with reason alone.

What evidence do you want of gods existence? Four independant eye witness acounts? or perhaps testomies from the people who lived back then? Or better yet a rock saying Moses was real Worship Yahweh?

Sorry ill admit i didnt think about those things and i am wrong for that. But animals dont show all the emotions that we humans are capable of though right? Is an animal capable of thinking of revenge?

123625

Yes.

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="123625"]

Yeah what good creates the cows that you get you milk from or the pigs you get your meat from? Then again you must be an animal cause you eat other animals am i wrong?

qetuo6

Yes, humans are animals. Anyway, my question was what kind of all powerful, kind, just God creates herbivores and then creates carnivores? Whose sole means of survival is to kill and then devour other animals?

God thats who, Its a simple answer. God is god and create whoever or whatever he wants. Besides animals are shown not to have human emotions so why does it matter to them? Its natural part of the life he had intended for us.

What? Animals don't show human behavior?

On the news a whale and her baby were attacked by a pod of killer whales, the mother whale stayed with the baby until they hit shallow water where the killer whales retreated. The mother could have just left but stayed with her offspring.

Dire wolves were discovered with traumatic head or leg injuries but the thing was their bones were partially healed, showing dire wolves fed their sick or injured.

When a pride of lions managed to pull a bison from his herd, the herd attempted a rescue.

Pengiuns as well as other animals are mates for life.

Dogs, don't even get me started on dogs.

Human enough for you? And again, what kind of all powerful being creates something who only knows to end another beings life?

Sorry ill admit i didnt think about those things and i am wrong for that. But animals dont show all the emotions that we humans are capable of though right? Is an animal capable of thinking of revenge?

So you agree that animals think of revenge huh? So that means they are capable of murder am i right? Which means they can commit murder no?

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]Can't he give us an explanation of how he did it? SolidSnake35

Better restore that faith with some thinking.

The Bible, if it is from God, should be expected to concur with facts. How can we know it does? By examining history and archaeology. Did the events in the Bible actually happen? Were there witnesses? Were they reliable? Did they exist?

In the end, faith is required. . . we don't have absolute knowledge that the Bible is simply made up. Bu ththe possibility that it is made up doesn't mean it is. Faith is important, but you can get to that step with reason alone.

The fact that there were five thousand witnesses, and twelve of these witnesses wrote about that miracle and then later died for their belief in it, doesn't count?

I'm going to use the Ressurection as an example. Here are the possibilities for explaining the Ressurection:

The Roman guard was bribed by the Apostles to let them take His body. But this is inconsitent with the facts, because several people (including enemies of Christ and skeptics) reported seeing Him alive. Additionally, the guard would have been executed for bribery when officials saw the tomb was empty.

The Roman guard was asleep when the Apostles took the dead body of Jesus. If this was the case, the guard would have been executed. The very heavy stone would probably wake him up anyway.

Jesus did not die on the cross, but survived, got out of the tomb, and left. He had holes in his hands and feet (meaning He couldn't walk or move the giant stone), broken shoulders, was completely drained of blood, had a stab wound in His side, and was in a very cold place. Do I need to go on?

The Apostles and the people who supposedly saw Jesus were having a mass hallucination. For so many people to hallucinate the same exact thing has never, ever been heard of in history. Especially for people with otherwise no mental problems. Besides, all anybody had to do to clear this up was to go to the tomb and see Jesus' corpse. Bam, hallucination gone.

The Gospel accounts are true. This is the only option that answers the most questions. All others leave gaping holes that simply cannot be filled.

[QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Loonie"]

If you are all powerful and decide not to act you are equally responsible. He is being cruel and evil with his negligence, aloowing suffering and death to take place which he could prevent with no effort on his part.

Dracargen

Let us assume you are correct. This leaves some questions:

How can God prevent such things without withholding free will at the same time?

What does free will have to do with earthquakes, disease, drought, viruses, hurricanes? Nothing, its just a crutch for your argument.

I had about six other questions. One of them was "If God is required to help with some suffering, then He is required to help with it all."

Answer them, please.

God isnt required to do anything, he is just a cock for letting terrible things happen which he could stop with no effort. That is of course if god existed, which he either doesnt or is cruel.

Maybe someone should take god to court for gross neglect, it happens to parents who dont feed their children, maybe it should happen to god people starve to death due to drought. Thats obviously ridiculous, im just pointing out that by our standards god is evil. or doesnt exist.

[QUOTE="qetuo6"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="thirstychainsaw"][QUOTE="123625"]

Yeah what good creates the cows that you get you milk from or the pigs you get your meat from? Then again you must be an animal cause you eat other animals am i wrong?

123625

Yes, humans are animals. Anyway, my question was what kind of all powerful, kind, just God creates herbivores and then creates carnivores? Whose sole means of survival is to kill and then devour other animals?

God thats who, Its a simple answer. God is god and create whoever or whatever he wants. Besides animals are shown not to have human emotions so why does it matter to them? Its natural part of the life he had intended for us.

What? Animals don't show human behavior?

On the news a whale and her baby were attacked by a pod of killer whales, the mother whale stayed with the baby until they hit shallow water where the killer whales retreated. The mother could have just left but stayed with her offspring.

Dire wolves were discovered with traumatic head or leg injuries but the thing was their bones were partially healed, showing dire wolves fed their sick or injured.

When a pride of lions managed to pull a bison from his herd, the herd attempted a rescue.

Pengiuns as well as other animals are mates for life.

Dogs, don't even get me started on dogs.

Human enough for you? And again, what kind of all powerful being creates something who only knows to end another beings life?

Sorry ill admit i didnt think about those things and i am wrong for that. But animals dont show all the emotions that we humans are capable of though right? Is an animal capable of thinking of revenge?

So you agree that animals think of revenge huh? So that means they are capable of murder am i right? Which means they can commit murder no?

Two packs of wolves in the same area. Bring popcorn.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]Can't he give us an explanation of how he did it? 123625

Better restore that faith with some thinking.

The Bible, if it is from God, should be expected to concur with facts. How can we know it does? By examining history and archaeology. Did the events in the Bible actually happen? Were there witnesses? Were they reliable? Did they exist?

In the end, faith is required. . . we don't have absolute knowledge that the Bible is simply made up. Bu ththe possibility that it is made up doesn't mean it is. Faith is important, but you can get to that step with reason alone.

What evidence do you want of gods existence? Four independant eye witness acounts? or perhaps testomies from the people who lived back then? Or better yet a rock saying Moses was real Worship Yahweh?

God isnt required to do anything, he is just a cock for letting terrible things happen which he could stop with no effort. That is of course if god existed, which he either doesnt or is cruel.

Maybe someone should take god to court for gross neglect, it happens to parents who dont feed their children, maybe it should happen to god people starve to death due to drought. Thats obviously ridiculous, im just pointing out that by our standards god is evil. or doesnt exist.

Loonie

You still have not answered any of my questions. According to you, God is evil for letting bad things happen. Well, if God were not to let bad thing shappen, then the questions I asked earlier would be infered. Answer them, or your case is little more than a rant.

By the way, this whole "God is evil for letting bad stuff happen!" Is an argument by outrage fallacy, since suffering can bring about positive results. Perhaps God islooking out for the future.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Loonie"]

If you are all powerful and decide not to act you are equally responsible. He is being cruel and evil with his negligence, aloowing suffering and death to take place which he could prevent with no effort on his part.

Loonie

Let us assume you are correct. This leaves some questions:

How can God prevent such things without withholding free will at the same time?

What does free will have to do with earthquakes, disease, drought, viruses, hurricanes? Nothing, its just a crutch for your argument.

I had about six other questions. One of them was "If God is required to help with some suffering, then He is required to help with it all."

Answer them, please.

God isnt required to do anything, he is just a cock for letting terrible things happen which he could stop with no effort. That is of course if god existed, which he either doesnt or is cruel.

Maybe someone should take god to court for gross neglect, it happens to parents who dont feed their children, maybe it should happen to god people starve to death due to drought. Thats obviously ridiculous, im just pointing out that by our standards god is evil. or doesnt exist.

So you think its god fault that the people in thrid world countries and other places around the world are starving>