does god really love us? maybe god is evil?

I want him to appear before us, but properly this time and not through a son.SolidSnake35

As long as naturalism is a fallback, people will deny He exists. If God were to come down and say "Here I am!" you may believe Him, maybe not, but tons of people sure as hell would chalk it up to some mass psychosis and call believers insane. Kinda like they already do.

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]Can't he give us an explanation of how he did it? SolidSnake35

Better restore that faith with some thinking.

The Bible, if it is from God, should be expected to concur with facts. How can we know it does? By examining history and archaeology. Did the events in the Bible actually happen? Were there witnesses? Were they reliable? Did they exist?

In the end, faith is required. . . we don't have absolute knowledge that the Bible is simply made up. Bu ththe possibility that it is made up doesn't mean it is. Faith is important, but you can get to that step with reason alone.

What evidence do you want of gods existence? Four independant eye witness acounts? or perhaps testomies from the people who lived back then? Or better yet a rock saying Moses was real Worship Yahweh?

You know what i want you to appear before me! You dont exist because you havent shown yourself thus you dont exist. And the son is the lord.

The fact that there were five thousand witnesses, and twelve of these witnesses wrote about that miracle and then later died for their belief in it, doesn't count?

Dracargen

Dont really wanna go into detail but dont you think its odd that there were 5,000 witnesses but only 12 wrote about it.

You do realise the NT was written after jesus died by random guys, for all we know jesus never even claimed to be the son of god, might have been a nice guy who gathered a following then after he died some old guys decided to use it to their advantage.

Also the bible has been translated many times, i think you should learn aramaic and read the original before you start quoting it as gospel.

You know what i want you to appear before me! You dont exist because you havent shown yourself thus you dont exist. And the son is the lord.123625

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I want him to appear before us, but properly this time and not through a son.Dracargen

As long as naturalism is a fallback, people will deny He exists. If God were to come down and say "Here I am!" you may believe Him, maybe not, but tons of people sure as hell would chalk it up to some mass psychosis and call believers insane. Kinda like they already do.

God could speak to us all with no effort, it would cost him nothing and certainly give him a whole load more believers. Perhaps he just enjoys sending people to hell or ignorance he could easily cure.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

The fact that there were five thousand witnesses, and twelve of these witnesses wrote about that miracle and then later died for their belief in it, doesn't count?

Loonie

Dont really wanna go into detail but dont you think its odd that there were 5,000 witnesses but only 12 wrote about it.

You do realise the NT was written after jesus died by random guys, for all we know jesus never even claimed to be the son of god, might have been a nice guy who gathered a following then after he died some old guys decided to use it to their advantage.

Also the bible has been translated many times, i think you should learn aramaic and read the original before you start quoting it as gospel.

Ever consider that most of them were slaves a didn't know how to write or read?

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

People who are saying God is evil for killing people need to understand that there is not one instance in the Bible where the people in question were not involved in horrific acts, not the least of which being sacrificing newborns.

People who are saying God should have created free will without evil need to understand that is completely and logically impossible. Under no possible circumstance can you create something with free will and then make it always good, even when it doesn't want to be good; That is not free will.

God made free will, then He made rules. Saying we don't have free will because God gets mad when we break the rules is like saying we don't have free will because the government puts us in prison for breaking the law.

People who are saying Hell is horrible need to look at their own worldview. If they don't want God, they won't get God. Hell is seperation from God; For an atheist, being with God in Heaven would be no better than Hell.

Dracargen

Uh-huh. . .

Exodus 1:9-16:

"He said to his people, "look, the Isrealite people are more numerous and powerful than we are. Let us deal shrewdly with them; Otherwise they will multiply further, and if war breaks out, they may join our enemies, fight against us, and leave the country." So the Egyptians assigned taskmakers over the Isrealites to oppress them with forced labor.. . Bu t the more they oppressed them, the more they multiplied and spread so that the Egyptians came to dread the Isrealities. They worked the Isrealites ruthlessly and made their lives bitter with difficult labor in brick and mortar, and in all kinds of fieldwork. . .Then the King of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives. . ."When you give birth, if it is a son, kill him, but if it is a daughter, keep her alive."

The Egyptians did it first.;)

Wrong, the Egyptians didn't do it first, the Egyptian King did it. One man ordered it, people followed. God killed the first borns in every household. You can't tell me that there weren't innocent Egyptian families or that the firstborns weren't innocent when it was the rulers of Egypt who oppressed the Israelites.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

The fact that there were five thousand witnesses, and twelve of these witnesses wrote about that miracle and then later died for their belief in it, doesn't count?

Loonie

Dont really wanna go into detail but dont you think its odd that there were 5,000 witnesses but only 12 wrote about it.

That's typically what happens when

1. Ten percent of the population knew how to write, and

2. News was spread orally, not by written words.

You do realise the NT was written after jesus died by random guys, for all we know jesus never even claimed to be the son of god, might have been a nice guy who gathered a following then after he died some old guys decided to use it to their advantage.

Then the Apostles died for something they knew to be a lie. They sure as hell believed Jesus was the Son of God. If that part was also faked, then why does history confirm a fake story?

Also the bible has been translated many times, i think you should learn aramaic and read the original before you start quoting it as gospel.

I know it has been translated many times. And the translations are pretty much the same, with meaningless differences. We have more than 5,600 New Testament manuscripts in their original languages.;)

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I want him to appear before us, but properly this time and not through a son.Loonie

As long as naturalism is a fallback, people will deny He exists. If God were to come down and say "Here I am!" you may believe Him, maybe not, but tons of people sure as hell would chalk it up to some mass psychosis and call believers insane. Kinda like they already do.

God could speak to us all with no effort, it would cost him nothing and certainly give him a whole load more believers. Perhaps he just enjoys sending people to hell or ignorance he could easily cure.

See god doesnt want people who beleive things at site. He wants true devontional beleivers.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

People who are saying God is evil for killing people need to understand that there is not one instance in the Bible where the people in question were not involved in horrific acts, not the least of which being sacrificing newborns.

People who are saying God should have created free will without evil need to understand that is completely and logically impossible. Under no possible circumstance can you create something with free will and then make it always good, even when it doesn't want to be good; That is not free will.

God made free will, then He made rules. Saying we don't have free will because God gets mad when we break the rules is like saying we don't have free will because the government puts us in prison for breaking the law.

People who are saying Hell is horrible need to look at their own worldview. If they don't want God, they won't get God. Hell is seperation from God; For an atheist, being with God in Heaven would be no better than Hell.

Red-XIII

Uh-huh. . .

Exodus 1:9-16:

"He said to his people, "look, the Isrealite people are more numerous and powerful than we are. Let us deal shrewdly with them; Otherwise they will multiply further, and if war breaks out, they may join our enemies, fight against us, and leave the country." So the Egyptians assigned taskmakers over the Isrealites to oppress them with forced labor.. . Bu t the more they oppressed them, the more they multiplied and spread so that the Egyptians came to dread the Isrealities. They worked the Isrealites ruthlessly and made their lives bitter with difficult labor in brick and mortar, and in all kinds of fieldwork. . .Then the King of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives. . ."When you give birth, if it is a son, kill him, but if it is a daughter, keep her alive."

The Egyptians did it first.;)

Wrong, the Egyptians didn't do it first, the Egyptian King did it. One man ordered it, people followed. God killed the first borns in every household. You can't tell me that there weren't innocent Egyptian families or that the firstborns weren't innocent when it was the rulers of Egypt who oppressed the Israelites.

And these people who followed were. . .?

See god doesnt want people who beleive things at site. He wants true devontional beleivers123625

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I want him to appear before us, but properly this time and not through a son.Loonie

As long as naturalism is a fallback, people will deny He exists. If God were to come down and say "Here I am!" you may believe Him, maybe not, but tons of people sure as hell would chalk it up to some mass psychosis and call believers insane. Kinda like they already do.

God could speak to us all with no effort, it would cost him nothing and certainly give him a whole load more believers. Perhaps he just enjoys sending people to hell or ignorance he could easily cure.

I can quote you dozens of men and women who attested to hearing the voice of God. Some will even say they have seen Him. Are you saying you would not revert to naturalism and say "They're crazy!" or some such?

[QUOTE="123625"]See god doesnt want people who beleive things at site. He wants true devontional beleiversSolidSnake35

And how did you reach this conclusion?:|

[QUOTE="123625"]You know what i want you to appear before me! You dont exist because you havent shown yourself thus you dont exist. And the son is the lord.SolidSnake35

ive always held the belief that god, though there may be more then one, is evil and that the meaning of life is to suffer for his entertainmentREforever101

:D :o :shock: :? :|

ive always held the belief that god, though there may be more then one, is evil and that the meaning of life is to suffer for his entertainmentREforever101

Many times in the Bible and in most other religions, god(s) are called loving, gentle, merciful, and good.

If the universe is as evil as that, and if the meaning of life is to suffer, then how in the world did people ever attribute this world to a loving God?

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="123625"]See god doesnt want people who beleive things at site. He wants true devontional beleiversDracargen

And how did you reach this conclusion?:|

[QUOTE="REforever101"]ive always held the belief that god, though there may be more then one, is evil and that the meaning of life is to suffer for his entertainmentDracargen

Many times in the Bible and in most other religions, god(s) are called loving, gentle, merciful, and good.

If the universe is as evil as that, and if the meaning of life is to suffer, then how in the world did people ever attribute this world to a loving God?

irony

god wants us to believe he loves us, so its even worse when we die and go to hell while he laughs

I know it has been translated many times. And the translations are pretty much the same, with meaningless differences. We have more than 5,600 New Testament manuscripts in their original languages.;)

Dracargen

How can you say they are meaningless differences when you dont know what those differences are?

People die for lies all the time, you would accuse people of other religions of doing exactly that.

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="123625"]See god doesnt want people who beleive things at site. He wants true devontional beleiversSolidSnake35

And how did you reach this conclusion?:|

Then let's teach creationism in school!:D

[QUOTE="Dracargen"]

I know it has been translated many times. And the translations are pretty much the same, with meaningless differences. We have more than 5,600 New Testament manuscripts in their original languages.;)

Loonie

How can you say they are meaningless differences when you dont know what those differences are?

People die for lies all the time, you would accuse people of other religions of doing exactly that.

Spelling errors, the occasional "This word goes here." stuff like that. ASre you saying there are others?

People do not die horrible deaths for something they know to be a lie. I defy you to provide any examples of people who did.

I gotta go.

[QUOTE="123625"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="123625"]Jesus wasnt a nice guy?! You serious! and no all christians that beleive and love the lord christ go to heaven regardless of what they have done they are forgiven. Some people who consider themselves christian probably wont even get into heaven cause they know nothing about their own religion.Red-XIII

First of all i beleive in Yahweh because he makes the most sense. Another reason is because i look around this world i dont see random mutation i see an intellegent design. If my god is wrong it wont matter much will it. Because most religions have the works rightous system meaning the good deeds you do get you into heaven, so far im not bad so i dont even have to beleive in that god to get into heaven. And most pagan religions if they are true dont have a form of hell so hey im saved there.

Say if the hindu is right i'll just be reincarnated. Is that how it works? or do i havge to be hindu? I will however be incredibly ******* if Allah was god, i wouldnt follow him any way even if he was god. But i consider him Satan. and finally if Atheism is right it wont matter either way.

Christ makes the most sense to me cause all you have to to is beleive.

Allah is God, you fool. Allah/Yahweh/God. They are different names for the same being. Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the God of Abraham. They just have different views on how to worship Him. You just called your own God Satan.

How can you argue religion when you don't even know the roots of your own religion? I may be agnostic, but I was in a Catholic school system for 13 years. I've learnt plenty to make my own judgement on what to believe in.

ALLAH IS NOT MY GOD AND NEVER WILL BE. muslims may claim that but our beleifs are completely different. I beleive in Jesus and through him we are granted permission to be with God.

MUSLIMS BELEIVE THAT WHEN THEY DIE THEY GO UP TO HEAVEN FOR SEX! SEX PLAIN AND SIMPLE WITH 72 VIRGINS AND A BUNCH OF BOY SLAVES. MY GOD IS NOT ALLAH MY LORD AND MASTER IS JESUS AND NO ONE ELSE.

ALLAH IS NOT YAHWEH OK. THE QURAN AND THE BIBLE TEACHINGS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. AND THE BIBLE IS THE ROOT OF THE RELIGION OF ISLAM NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

[QUOTE="Witchking111111"]Evil exists because of Eve.123625

If you go further back its the serpant really.

Damn those uppity snakes!

[QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I want him to appear before us, but properly this time and not through a son.Dracargen

As long as naturalism is a fallback, people will deny He exists. If God were to come down and say "Here I am!" you may believe Him, maybe not, but tons of people sure as hell would chalk it up to some mass psychosis and call believers insane. Kinda like they already do.

God could speak to us all with no effort, it would cost him nothing and certainly give him a whole load more believers. Perhaps he just enjoys sending people to hell or ignorance he could easily cure.

I can quote you dozens of men and women who attested to hearing the voice of God. Some will even say they have seen Him. Are you saying you would not revert to naturalism and say "They're crazy!" or some such?

Why would he speak to them but not everyone? does he love them more than us?

See god doesnt want people who beleive things at site. He wants true devontional beleivers.

123625

I dont think god wants people with such terrible spelling. You're definitely going to hell. English 101.

[QUOTE="Red-XIII"][QUOTE="123625"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="123625"]Jesus wasnt a nice guy?! You serious! and no all christians that beleive and love the lord christ go to heaven regardless of what they have done they are forgiven. Some people who consider themselves christian probably wont even get into heaven cause they know nothing about their own religion.123625

First of all i beleive in Yahweh because he makes the most sense. Another reason is because i look around this world i dont see random mutation i see an intellegent design. If my god is wrong it wont matter much will it. Because most religions have the works rightous system meaning the good deeds you do get you into heaven, so far im not bad so i dont even have to beleive in that god to get into heaven. And most pagan religions if they are true dont have a form of hell so hey im saved there.

Say if the hindu is right i'll just be reincarnated. Is that how it works? or do i havge to be hindu? I will however be incredibly ******* if Allah was god, i wouldnt follow him any way even if he was god. But i consider him Satan. and finally if Atheism is right it wont matter either way.

Christ makes the most sense to me cause all you have to to is beleive.

Allah is God, you fool. Allah/Yahweh/God. They are different names for the same being. Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the God of Abraham. They just have different views on how to worship Him. You just called your own God Satan.

How can you argue religion when you don't even know the roots of your own religion? I may be agnostic, but I was in a Catholic school system for 13 years. I've learnt plenty to make my own judgement on what to believe in.

ALLAH IS NOT MY GOD AND NEVER WILL BE. muslims may claim that but our beleifs are completely different. I beleive in Jesus and through him we are granted permission to be with God.

MUSLIMS BELEIVE THAT WHEN THEY DIE THEY GO UP TO HEAVEN FOR SEX! SEX PLAIN AND SIMPLE WITH 72 VIRGINS AND A BUNCH OF BOY SLAVES. MY GOD IS NOT ALLAH MY LORD AND MASTER IS JESUS AND NO ONE ELSE.

ALLAH IS NOT YAHWEH OK. THE QURAN AND THE BIBLE TEACHINGS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. AND THE BIBLE IS THE ROOT OF THE RELIGION OF ISLAM NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

typing in large font expresses something negative about the poster. think about this the next time you post

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Dracargen"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="123625"]See god doesnt want people who beleive things at site. He wants true devontional beleiversDracargen

And how did you reach this conclusion?:|

Then let's teach creationism in school!:D

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="Red-XIII"][QUOTE="123625"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="123625"]Jesus wasnt a nice guy?! You serious! and no all christians that beleive and love the lord christ go to heaven regardless of what they have done they are forgiven. Some people who consider themselves christian probably wont even get into heaven cause they know nothing about their own religion.REforever101

First of all i beleive in Yahweh because he makes the most sense. Another reason is because i look around this world i dont see random mutation i see an intellegent design. If my god is wrong it wont matter much will it. Because most religions have the works rightous system meaning the good deeds you do get you into heaven, so far im not bad so i dont even have to beleive in that god to get into heaven. And most pagan religions if they are true dont have a form of hell so hey im saved there.

Say if the hindu is right i'll just be reincarnated. Is that how it works? or do i havge to be hindu? I will however be incredibly ******* if Allah was god, i wouldnt follow him any way even if he was god. But i consider him Satan. and finally if Atheism is right it wont matter either way.

Christ makes the most sense to me cause all you have to to is beleive.

Allah is God, you fool. Allah/Yahweh/God. They are different names for the same being. Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the God of Abraham. They just have different views on how to worship Him. You just called your own God Satan.

How can you argue religion when you don't even know the roots of your own religion? I may be agnostic, but I was in a Catholic school system for 13 years. I've learnt plenty to make my own judgement on what to believe in.

ALLAH IS NOT MY GOD AND NEVER WILL BE. muslims may claim that but our beleifs are completely different. I beleive in Jesus and through him we are granted permission to be with God.

MUSLIMS BELEIVE THAT WHEN THEY DIE THEY GO UP TO HEAVEN FOR SEX! SEX PLAIN AND SIMPLE WITH 72 VIRGINS AND A BUNCH OF BOY SLAVES. MY GOD IS NOT ALLAH MY LORD AND MASTER IS JESUS AND NO ONE ELSE.

ALLAH IS NOT YAHWEH OK. THE QURAN AND THE BIBLE TEACHINGS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. AND THE BIBLE IS THE ROOT OF THE RELIGION OF ISLAM NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

typing in large font expresses something negative about the poster. think about this the next time you post

No this expresses some amount of rage i feel whenever i hear people say that Allah and Yahweh are the same.

And these people who followed were. . .?

Dracargen

The military at the time? I have serious doubts that every working clas-s families in Egypt took up arms to go kill Israelite children, or that everyone agreed and had a hand in it.

Granted those who committed the crime should be punished, but to kill every firstborn in Egypt is beyond necessary. Especially when there are innocent children involved.

[QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Loonie"]

If you are all powerful and decide not to act you are equally responsible. He is being cruel and evil with his negligence, aloowing suffering and death to take place which he could prevent with no effort on his part.

123625

Let us assume you are correct. This leaves some questions:

How can God prevent such things without withholding free will at the same time?

What does free will have to do with earthquakes, disease, drought, viruses, hurricanes? Nothing, its just a crutch for your argument.

I had about six other questions. One of them was "If God is required to help with some suffering, then He is required to help with it all."

Answer them, please.

God isnt required to do anything, he is just a cock for letting terrible things happen which he could stop with no effort. That is of course if god existed, which he either doesnt or is cruel.

Maybe someone should take god to court for gross neglect, it happens to parents who dont feed their children, maybe it should happen to god people starve to death due to drought. Thats obviously ridiculous, im just pointing out that by our standards god is evil. or doesnt exist.

So you think its god fault that the people in thrid world countries and other places around the world are starving>

Exactly.

[QUOTE="REforever101"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="Red-XIII"][QUOTE="123625"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="123625"]Jesus wasnt a nice guy?! You serious! and no all christians that beleive and love the lord christ go to heaven regardless of what they have done they are forgiven. Some people who consider themselves christian probably wont even get into heaven cause they know nothing about their own religion.123625

First of all i beleive in Yahweh because he makes the most sense. Another reason is because i look around this world i dont see random mutation i see an intellegent design. If my god is wrong it wont matter much will it. Because most religions have the works rightous system meaning the good deeds you do get you into heaven, so far im not bad so i dont even have to beleive in that god to get into heaven. And most pagan religions if they are true dont have a form of hell so hey im saved there.

Say if the hindu is right i'll just be reincarnated. Is that how it works? or do i havge to be hindu? I will however be incredibly ******* if Allah was god, i wouldnt follow him any way even if he was god. But i consider him Satan. and finally if Atheism is right it wont matter either way.

Christ makes the most sense to me cause all you have to to is beleive.

Allah is God, you fool. Allah/Yahweh/God. They are different names for the same being. Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the God of Abraham. They just have different views on how to worship Him. You just called your own God Satan.

How can you argue religion when you don't even know the roots of your own religion? I may be agnostic, but I was in a Catholic school system for 13 years. I've learnt plenty to make my own judgement on what to believe in.

ALLAH IS NOT MY GOD AND NEVER WILL BE. muslims may claim that but our beleifs are completely different. I beleive in Jesus and through him we are granted permission to be with God.

MUSLIMS BELEIVE THAT WHEN THEY DIE THEY GO UP TO HEAVEN FOR SEX! SEX PLAIN AND SIMPLE WITH 72 VIRGINS AND A BUNCH OF BOY SLAVES. MY GOD IS NOT ALLAH MY LORD AND MASTER IS JESUS AND NO ONE ELSE.

ALLAH IS NOT YAHWEH OK. THE QURAN AND THE BIBLE TEACHINGS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. AND THE BIBLE IS THE ROOT OF THE RELIGION OF ISLAM NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

typing in large font expresses something negative about the poster. think about this the next time you post

No this expresses some amount of rage i feel whenever i hear people say that Allah and Yahweh are the same.

you may think it expresses rage. no offense, but it might accidentally make folks believe you are yelling "I ARE AN EDIOT" at the top of your lungs

its best to just use a few exclamation points

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Loonie"][QUOTE="Dracargen"][QUOTE="Loonie"]

If you are all powerful and decide not to act you are equally responsible. He is being cruel and evil with his negligence, aloowing suffering and death to take place which he could prevent with no effort on his part.

Loonie

Let us assume you are correct. This leaves some questions:

How can God prevent such things without withholding free will at the same time?

What does free will have to do with earthquakes, disease, drought, viruses, hurricanes? Nothing, its just a crutch for your argument.

I had about six other questions. One of them was "If God is required to help with some suffering, then He is required to help with it all."

Answer them, please.

God isnt required to do anything, he is just a cock for letting terrible things happen which he could stop with no effort. That is of course if god existed, which he either doesnt or is cruel.

Maybe someone should take god to court for gross neglect, it happens to parents who dont feed their children, maybe it should happen to god people starve to death due to drought. Thats obviously ridiculous, im just pointing out that by our standards god is evil. or doesnt exist.

So you think its god fault that the people in thrid world countries and other places around the world are starving>

Exactly.

Well boviously you havent read my ealier post about how its our responsibility to feed the starving countrys. We have the resources but we dont do it because it might be unecomical mabye. Besides christian charitys all over the world are helping those places in GODS name so as long as its in the context of his teachings its for god.

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="REforever101"][QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="Red-XIII"][QUOTE="123625"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="123625"]Jesus wasnt a nice guy?! You serious! and no all christians that beleive and love the lord christ go to heaven regardless of what they have done they are forgiven. Some people who consider themselves christian probably wont even get into heaven cause they know nothing about their own religion.REforever101

First of all i beleive in Yahweh because he makes the most sense. Another reason is because i look around this world i dont see random mutation i see an intellegent design. If my god is wrong it wont matter much will it. Because most religions have the works rightous system meaning the good deeds you do get you into heaven, so far im not bad so i dont even have to beleive in that god to get into heaven. And most pagan religions if they are true dont have a form of hell so hey im saved there.

Say if the hindu is right i'll just be reincarnated. Is that how it works? or do i havge to be hindu? I will however be incredibly ******* if Allah was god, i wouldnt follow him any way even if he was god. But i consider him Satan. and finally if Atheism is right it wont matter either way.

Christ makes the most sense to me cause all you have to to is beleive.

Allah is God, you fool. Allah/Yahweh/God. They are different names for the same being. Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the God of Abraham. They just have different views on how to worship Him. You just called your own God Satan.

How can you argue religion when you don't even know the roots of your own religion? I may be agnostic, but I was in a Catholic school system for 13 years. I've learnt plenty to make my own judgement on what to believe in.

ALLAH IS NOT MY GOD AND NEVER WILL BE. muslims may claim that but our beleifs are completely different. I beleive in Jesus and through him we are granted permission to be with God.

MUSLIMS BELEIVE THAT WHEN THEY DIE THEY GO UP TO HEAVEN FOR SEX! SEX PLAIN AND SIMPLE WITH 72 VIRGINS AND A BUNCH OF BOY SLAVES. MY GOD IS NOT ALLAH MY LORD AND MASTER IS JESUS AND NO ONE ELSE.

ALLAH IS NOT YAHWEH OK. THE QURAN AND THE BIBLE TEACHINGS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. AND THE BIBLE IS THE ROOT OF THE RELIGION OF ISLAM NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

typing in large font expresses something negative about the poster. think about this the next time you post

No this expresses some amount of rage i feel whenever i hear people say that Allah and Yahweh are the same.

you may think it expresses rage. no offense, but it might accidentally make folks believe you are yelling "I ARE AN EDIOT" at the top of your lungs

its best to just use a few exclamation points

When you read the teachings of allah compared to christ you will understand and ive had enough of this debate no body's changing their minds.

Seeyaa all.

[QUOTE="Red-XIII"][QUOTE="123625"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="123625"]Jesus wasnt a nice guy?! You serious! and no all christians that beleive and love the lord christ go to heaven regardless of what they have done they are forgiven. Some people who consider themselves christian probably wont even get into heaven cause they know nothing about their own religion.123625

First of all i beleive in Yahweh because he makes the most sense. Another reason is because i look around this world i dont see random mutation i see an intellegent design. If my god is wrong it wont matter much will it. Because most religions have the works rightous system meaning the good deeds you do get you into heaven, so far im not bad so i dont even have to beleive in that god to get into heaven. And most pagan religions if they are true dont have a form of hell so hey im saved there.

Say if the hindu is right i'll just be reincarnated. Is that how it works? or do i havge to be hindu? I will however be incredibly ******* if Allah was god, i wouldnt follow him any way even if he was god. But i consider him Satan. and finally if Atheism is right it wont matter either way.

Christ makes the most sense to me cause all you have to to is beleive.

Allah is God, you fool. Allah/Yahweh/God. They are different names for the same being. Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the God of Abraham. They just have different views on how to worship Him. You just called your own God Satan.

How can you argue religion when you don't even know the roots of your own religion? I may be agnostic, but I was in a Catholic school system for 13 years. I've learnt plenty to make my own judgement on what to believe in.

ALLAH IS NOT MY GOD AND NEVER WILL BE. muslims may claim that but our beleifs are completely different. I beleive in Jesus and through him we are granted permission to be with God.

MUSLIMS BELEIVE THAT WHEN THEY DIE THEY GO UP TO HEAVEN FOR SEX! SEX PLAIN AND SIMPLE WITH 72 VIRGINS AND A BUNCH OF BOY SLAVES. MY GOD IS NOT ALLAH MY LORD AND MASTER IS JESUS AND NO ONE ELSE.

ALLAH IS NOT YAHWEH OK. THE QURAN AND THE BIBLE TEACHINGS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. AND THE BIBLE IS THE ROOT OF THE RELIGION OF ISLAM NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

Like I said, Allah is a different name for God. Jews call him Yahweh, Christians call him God, Muslims call him Allah. IT IS THE SAME GOD, THE GOD OF ABRAHAM. Therefore Allah is God.
If you bothered reading what I wrote, you'd see that they ALL BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD BUT CHOOSE DIFFERENT WAYS TO WORSHIP HIM.

And Muslims don't go to Heaven for sex. I haven't ever seen a quote from the Quran about getting virgins in Heaven. Unless you can present one, it's nothing more than lies proliferated by non-Muslims to pay out Islam.

Allah is Yahweh. God of Abraham. Just because you don't like what Islam teaches, doesn't mean they don't believe in the same God. From the looks of it, you probably don't even understand what Islam is about. I can't say much about it either, I haven't learnt much about it. Anything you think you know about Islam (going to heaven for sex and slave boys?!) is a perversion of truth because of the ignorant western world.

And it's not just Muslims claiming that it is the same God, it is common knowledge to all the semitic religions (do you know what those are? Judaism, Christianity and Islam) that they all believe in the SAME GOD.

The Bible is not the root of Islam. Muslims follow the Qu'ran. Judaism is the basis for Christianity and Islam. They both stemmed from there. And no, the Bible and Qu'ran aren't all that different. They're supposed to be about peace and worshipping God.

You're an ignorant Christian. You're just as bad as Muslim extremists.

they need to lock this. noone here is going to chagne there kind. all you all are going to do it keep going on and on.SizeMatterzz

[QUOTE="SizeMatterzz"]they need to lock this. noone here is going to chagne there kind. all you all are going to do it keep going on and on.SolidSnake35

123625's response to a simple truth is a prime example of how warped and brainwashed some Christians are. It makes me lose even more faith in religion when people break down like that over something so trivial.

ALLAH IS NOT MY GOD AND NEVER WILL BE. muslims may claim that but our beleifs are completely different. I beleive in Jesus and through him we are granted permission to be with God.

MUSLIMS BELEIVE THAT WHEN THEY DIE THEY GO UP TO HEAVEN FOR SEX! SEX PLAIN AND SIMPLE WITH 72 VIRGINS AND A BUNCH OF BOY SLAVES. MY GOD IS NOT ALLAH MY LORD AND MASTER IS JESUS AND NO ONE ELSE.

ALLAH IS NOT YAHWEH OK. THE QURAN AND THE BIBLE TEACHINGS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. AND THE BIBLE IS THE ROOT OF THE RELIGION OF ISLAM NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

Like I said, Allah is a different name for God. Jews call him Yahweh, Christians call him God, Muslims call him Allah. IT IS THE SAME GOD, THE GOD OF ABRAHAM. Therefore Allah is God.
If you bothered reading what I wrote, you'd see that they ALL BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD BUT CHOOSE DIFFERENT WAYS TO WORSHIP HIM.

And Muslims don't go to Heaven for sex. I haven't ever seen a quote from the Quran about getting virgins in Heaven. Unless you can present one, it's nothing more than lies proliferated by non-Muslims to pay out Islam.

Allah is Yahweh. God of Abraham. Just because you don't like what Islam teaches, doesn't mean they don't believe in the same God. From the looks of it, you probably don't even understand what Islam is about. I can't say much about it either, I haven't learnt much about it. Anything you think you know about Islam (going to heaven for sex and slave boys?!) is a perversion of truth because of the ignorant western world.

And it's not just Muslims claiming that it is the same God, it is common knowledge to all the semitic religions (do you know what those are? Judaism, Christianity and Islam) that they all believe in the SAME GOD.

The Bible is not the root of Islam. Muslims follow the Qu'ran. Judaism is the basis for Christianity and Islam. They both stemmed from there. And no, the Bible and Qu'ran aren't all that different. They're supposed to be about peace and worshipping God.

You're an ignorant Christian. You're just as bad as Muslim extremists.

Tell me where in the Bible it tells people to beat their wives? Tell me where in the Bible it tells people they can beat their wives if they fear disloyalty.

Tell me why Muhammed dislikes woman so much? I am not ignorent i know enough about Islam to know its bad. And yes you do get 72 virgins in heaven ok.

My god is not Allah. You may claim they are the same with different beleifs but they are not the same.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="SizeMatterzz"]they need to lock this. noone here is going to chagne there kind. all you all are going to do it keep going on and on.Red-XIII

123625's response to a simple truth is a prime example of how warped and brainwashed some Christians are. It makes me lose even more faith in religion when people break down like that over something so trivial.

Im brainwashed? i know i promised to go away but no im not.

How am i brainwashed is what i said wrong about the 72 vigins False?

123625

ALLAH IS NOT MY GOD AND NEVER WILL BE. muslims may claim that but our beleifs are completely different. I beleive in Jesus and through him we are granted permission to be with God.

MUSLIMS BELEIVE THAT WHEN THEY DIE THEY GO UP TO HEAVEN FOR SEX! SEX PLAIN AND SIMPLE WITH 72 VIRGINS AND A BUNCH OF BOY SLAVES. MY GOD IS NOT ALLAH MY LORD AND MASTER IS JESUS AND NO ONE ELSE.

ALLAH IS NOT YAHWEH OK. THE QURAN AND THE BIBLE TEACHINGS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. AND THE BIBLE IS THE ROOT OF THE RELIGION OF ISLAM NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

Like I said, Allah is a different name for God. Jews call him Yahweh, Christians call him God, Muslims call him Allah. IT IS THE SAME GOD, THE GOD OF ABRAHAM. Therefore Allah is God.
If you bothered reading what I wrote, you'd see that they ALL BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD BUT CHOOSE DIFFERENT WAYS TO WORSHIP HIM.

And Muslims don't go to Heaven for sex. I haven't ever seen a quote from the Quran about getting virgins in Heaven. Unless you can present one, it's nothing more than lies proliferated by non-Muslims to pay out Islam.

Allah is Yahweh. God of Abraham. Just because you don't like what Islam teaches, doesn't mean they don't believe in the same God. From the looks of it, you probably don't even understand what Islam is about. I can't say much about it either, I haven't learnt much about it. Anything you think you know about Islam (going to heaven for sex and slave boys?!) is a perversion of truth because of the ignorant western world.

And it's not just Muslims claiming that it is the same God, it is common knowledge to all the semitic religions (do you know what those are? Judaism, Christianity and Islam) that they all believe in the SAME GOD.

The Bible is not the root of Islam. Muslims follow the Qu'ran. Judaism is the basis for Christianity and Islam. They both stemmed from there. And no, the Bible and Qu'ran aren't all that different. They're supposed to be about peace and worshipping God.

You're an ignorant Christian. You're just as bad as Muslim extremists.

Tell me where in the Bible it tells people to beat their wives? Tell me where in the Bible it tells people they can beat their wives if they fear disloyalty.

Tell me why Muhammed dislikes woman so much? I am not ignorent i know enough about Islam to know its bad. And yes you do get 72 virgins in heaven ok.

My god is not Allah. You may claim they are the same with different beleifs but they are not the same.

the bible says its ok to do a lot of horrible things. for example:

1) killing someone for weaving something with two or more different kinds of thread

2) slavery is ok

3) its ok to kill those who work on the sabbath

4) touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. so say goodbye to football

[QUOTE="123625"]

REforever101

ALLAH IS NOT MY GOD AND NEVER WILL BE. muslims may claim that but our beleifs are completely different. I beleive in Jesus and through him we are granted permission to be with God.

MUSLIMS BELEIVE THAT WHEN THEY DIE THEY GO UP TO HEAVEN FOR SEX! SEX PLAIN AND SIMPLE WITH 72 VIRGINS AND A BUNCH OF BOY SLAVES. MY GOD IS NOT ALLAH MY LORD AND MASTER IS JESUS AND NO ONE ELSE.

ALLAH IS NOT YAHWEH OK. THE QURAN AND THE BIBLE TEACHINGS ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. AND THE BIBLE IS THE ROOT OF THE RELIGION OF ISLAM NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

Like I said, Allah is a different name for God. Jews call him Yahweh, Christians call him God, Muslims call him Allah. IT IS THE SAME GOD, THE GOD OF ABRAHAM. Therefore Allah is God.
If you bothered reading what I wrote, you'd see that they ALL BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD BUT CHOOSE DIFFERENT WAYS TO WORSHIP HIM.

And Muslims don't go to Heaven for sex. I haven't ever seen a quote from the Quran about getting virgins in Heaven. Unless you can present one, it's nothing more than lies proliferated by non-Muslims to pay out Islam.

Allah is Yahweh. God of Abraham. Just because you don't like what Islam teaches, doesn't mean they don't believe in the same God. From the looks of it, you probably don't even understand what Islam is about. I can't say much about it either, I haven't learnt much about it. Anything you think you know about Islam (going to heaven for sex and slave boys?!) is a perversion of truth because of the ignorant western world.

And it's not just Muslims claiming that it is the same God, it is common knowledge to all the semitic religions (do you know what those are? Judaism, Christianity and Islam) that they all believe in the SAME GOD.

The Bible is not the root of Islam. Muslims follow the Qu'ran. Judaism is the basis for Christianity and Islam. They both stemmed from there. And no, the Bible and Qu'ran aren't all that different. They're supposed to be about peace and worshipping God.

You're an ignorant Christian. You're just as bad as Muslim extremists.

Tell me where in the Bible it tells people to beat their wives? Tell me where in the Bible it tells people they can beat their wives if they fear disloyalty.

Tell me why Muhammed dislikes woman so much? I am not ignorent i know enough about Islam to know its bad. And yes you do get 72 virgins in heaven ok.

My god is not Allah. You may claim they are the same with different beleifs but they are not the same.

the bible says its ok to do a lot of horrible things. for example:

1) killing someone for weaving something with two or more different kinds of thread

2) slavery is ok

3) its ok to kill those who work on the sabbath

4) touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. so say goodbye to football

But do you see a majority of christians do these things now days? No of course not. I have no doubt these are from the old testament right? Christians follow jesus we dont kill people for these things.

Besides i still want answers for my previous questions not just more accusations. Beleive it or not the slavery back then was a jsut away of honest living. Its not the slavery you hear about nowdays.

Assuming that evil is real and that God is omnipotent, one could very well conclude that God is evil (or, to be less audacious, let us say "imperfect"), for the simple reason that he allows evil to persist. Elraptor

One could easily conclude that or he could think that perhaps there's reasons why God is allowing evil/suffering to persist, if He has plans on taking action, and try to find out answers for these questions perhaps through studying His Word.

Can you call god evil for giving us free will? For giving us the ability to choose whether we beleive in him or not? Is it evil to give free will? Just cause some one does something bad doesnt make god evil it makes the person who did it bad. 123625