Ecuador grants J. Assange asylum despite British threats

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#101 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

He needs to be extradited to Sweden, and then the US, or vice versa. He should stand trial in both countries for the crimes he's committed.

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#102 LJS9502_basic  Online
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[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] There's an ocean of difference between government secret information and individual private information. If we go by the principle of democracy that the government is for the people and by the people then it's the interest of those people that this government be as transparent as possible since then it will be deceiving them. The same doesn't apply to individuals. And if any government is entitled to be secretive and affect others by it then why is the US and Europe supporting Chinese political dissidents if that's how China wants to keep secret?

Transparency is naive. Some ways governments operate would be compromised by transparency.

Yeah and maybe how those governments operate is immoral like Wikileaks showed in many instances. What's more important to keep immoral governments operating how they are used to or actually trying to change that?

Wikileaks hasn't shown much of anything....it's over rated.
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#103 snakes_codec
Member since 2008 • 2754 Posts

[QUOTE="snakes_codec"]

he's going to have to stay in that house an awfully long time as he aint making it to Ecuador id just go in and get him now if it were down to me what is Ecuador going to do throw bananna's at us .

seahorse123

That's a typical bullying nation push around the little countries just to be friends with the even power fuller ones

so Britain is trying to be friends with big powerful Sweden :lol:we just dont want a suspected rapist in our country but unlike the rest of Western Europe we havent lost our bottle we will do what we like if we think he should go to Sweden he will stop hiding behind the anti British and anti American banner .

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seahorse123

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#104 seahorse123
Member since 2012 • 1237 Posts

[QUOTE="seahorse123"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Prove it's fake. He's accused of a crime and he should answer for it.LJS9502_basic

Don't you understand the question what else?...

This thread is about the rape case. Why are you making this about more? And I've asked three times now at least for you to prove your assertion that the charges are false or fake. Either do so...or stop using that word in respect to the charges.

ahhh there's nothing if you want to give me a reason you can PM I will be waiting:)
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#105 LJS9502_basic  Online
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[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="seahorse123"] Don't you understand the question what else?...seahorse123

This thread is about the rape case. Why are you making this about more? And I've asked three times now at least for you to prove your assertion that the charges are false or fake. Either do so...or stop using that word in respect to the charges.

ahhh there's nothing if you want to give me a reason you can PM I will be waiting:)

WTF is wrong with you? I gave you the reason. Sweden wants him to answer for the rape allegations. Period.
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#106 seahorse123
Member since 2012 • 1237 Posts

[QUOTE="seahorse123"][QUOTE="snakes_codec"]

he's going to have to stay in that house an awfully long time as he aint making it to Ecuador id just go in and get him now if it were down to me what is Ecuador going to do throw bananna's at us .

snakes_codec

That's a typical bullying nation push around the little countries just to be friends with the even power fuller ones

so Britain is trying to be friends with big powerful Sweden :lol:we just dont want a suspected rapist in our country but unlike the rest of Western Europe we havent lost our bottle we will do what we like if we think he should go to Sweden he will stop hiding behind the anti British and anti American banner .

Sweden's just being used
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#107 seahorse123
Member since 2012 • 1237 Posts

[QUOTE="seahorse123"][QUOTE="snakes_codec"]

he's going to have to stay in that house an awfully long time as he aint making it to Ecuador id just go in and get him now if it were down to me what is Ecuador going to do throw bananna's at us .

snakes_codec

That's a typical bullying nation push around the little countries just to be friends with the even power fuller ones

so Britain is trying to be friends with big powerful Sweden :lol:we just dont want a suspected rapist in our country but unlike the rest of Western Europe we havent lost our bottle we will do what we like if we think he should go to Sweden he will stop hiding behind the anti British and anti American banner .

Sweden's just being used
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#108 LJS9502_basic  Online
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[QUOTE="snakes_codec"]

[QUOTE="seahorse123"] That's a typical bullying nation push around the little countries just to be friends with the even power fuller ones seahorse123

so Britain is trying to be friends with big powerful Sweden :lol:we just dont want a suspected rapist in our country but unlike the rest of Western Europe we havent lost our bottle we will do what we like if we think he should go to Sweden he will stop hiding behind the anti British and anti American banner .

Sweden's just being used

Proof?
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#109 snakes_codec
Member since 2008 • 2754 Posts

[QUOTE="snakes_codec"]

[QUOTE="seahorse123"] That's a typical bullying nation push around the little countries just to be friends with the even power fuller ones seahorse123

so Britain is trying to be friends with big powerful Sweden :lol:we just dont want a suspected rapist in our country but unlike the rest of Western Europe we havent lost our bottle we will do what we like if we think he should go to Sweden he will stop hiding behind the anti British and anti American banner .

Sweden's just being used

that tin foil isnt wrapped hard enough around your head they can see you:o

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#110 Abbeten
Member since 2012 • 3140 Posts

He needs to be extradited to Sweden, and then the US, or vice versa. He should stand trial in both countries for the crimes he's committed.

airshocker
It would probably be hard to get him anything resembling a fair trial.
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kuraimen

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#111 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Transparency is naive. Some ways governments operate would be compromised by transparency.

Yeah and maybe how those governments operate is immoral like Wikileaks showed in many instances. What's more important to keep immoral governments operating how they are used to or actually trying to change that?

Wikileaks hasn't shown much of anything....it's over rated.

I think they revealed much. Granted many of the disgusting things governments do are kind of obvious but at least we got it from the horses mouth and ashamed them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak If more sources like Wikileaks existed the governments would fear their citizens like it should and not the other way around.
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#112 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
[QUOTE="airshocker"]

He needs to be extradited to Sweden, and then the US, or vice versa. He should stand trial in both countries for the crimes he's committed.

Abbeten
It would probably be hard to get him anything resembling a fair trial.

He doesn't care about fairness.
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#113 LJS9502_basic  Online
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[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] Yeah and maybe how those governments operate is immoral like Wikileaks showed in many instances. What's more important to keep immoral governments operating how they are used to or actually trying to change that?

Wikileaks hasn't shown much of anything....it's over rated.

I think they revealed much. Granted many of the disgusting things governments do are kind of obvious but at least we got it from the horses mouth and ashamed them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak If more sources like Wikileaks existed the governments would fear their citizens like it should and not the other way around.

Yeah diplomatic cables were one of the silly things I was referring to dude.....
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#114 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
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It would probably be hard to get him anything resembling a fair trial.Abbeten

He doesn't get to bypass the justice system just because some think he'll be judged unfairly. That's not how it works.

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#115 Ravensmash
Member since 2010 • 13862 Posts

He needs to be extradited to Sweden, and then the US, or vice versa. He should stand trial in both countries for the crimes he's committed.

airshocker
What crime has he committed in the US? I agree with Sweden, US absolutely not.
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#116 Abbeten
Member since 2012 • 3140 Posts

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]It would probably be hard to get him anything resembling a fair trial.airshocker

He doesn't get to bypass the justice system just because some think he'll be judged unfairly. That's not how it works.

,But we shouldn't disregard the very real possibility of him getting a kangaroo court. I mean, go ahead and try him. But we can't just rush into it screaming 'JUSTICE' if there's a chance we]ll subvert it in doing so.
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#117 Ravensmash
Member since 2010 • 13862 Posts

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]It would probably be hard to get him anything resembling a fair trial.airshocker

He doesn't get to bypass the justice system just because some think he'll be judged unfairly. That's not how it works.

That is how political asylum works though.
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kuraimen

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#118 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]It would probably be hard to get him anything resembling a fair trial.airshocker

He doesn't get to bypass the justice system just because some think he'll be judged unfairly. That's not how it works.

A government can't bypass an embassy's territory to catch a person who requested political asylum. That's not how it works.
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#119 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

What crime has he committed in the US? I agree with Sweden, US absolutely not.Ravensmash

Releasing classified information is a federal crime.

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#120 deactivated-5b19214ec908b
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[QUOTE="Ravensmash"]What crime has he committed in the US? I agree with Sweden, US absolutely not.airshocker

Releasing classified information is a federal crime.

What about all the news sites that reported on it? He didn't leak the information, he just published what was leaked to him.

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#121 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

But we shouldn't disregard the very real possibility of him getting a kangaroo court. I mean, go ahead and try him. But we can't just rush into it screaming 'JUSTICE' if there's a chance we]ll subvert it in doing so.Abbeten

I sincerely doubt he'd get a kangaroo court in the US or Sweden.

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#122 Ravensmash
Member since 2010 • 13862 Posts

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"]What crime has he committed in the US? I agree with Sweden, US absolutely not.airshocker

Releasing classified information is a federal crime.

He just published the information. Just like all of the news organisations.
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#123 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
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That is how political asylum works though. Ravensmash

And if you support that you're a sh*tty human being. Perfectly fine with allowing certain people to escape justice because you agree with him.

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#124 seahorse123
Member since 2012 • 1237 Posts
[QUOTE="seahorse123"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]This thread is about the rape case. Why are you making this about more? And I've asked three times now at least for you to prove your assertion that the charges are false or fake. Either do so...or stop using that word in respect to the charges.LJS9502_basic
ahhh there's nothing if you want to give me a reason you can PM I will be waiting:)

WTF is wrong with you? I gave you the reason. Sweden wants him to answer for the rape allegations. Period.

But what else... so you telling me that's the only reason you don't like him? say yes or no
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#125 LJS9502_basic  Online
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[QUOTE="Ravensmash"]What crime has he committed in the US? I agree with Sweden, US absolutely not.airshocker

Releasing classified information is a federal crime.

That's what Manning will be charged with....not sure that it can be stretched to Assange though.
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#126 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
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What about all the news sites that reported on it? He didn't leak the information, he just published what was leaked to him.

toast_burner

It's a crime if it's shown he aided Manning in getting the information, or compensated him in any way.

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#127 Ravensmash
Member since 2010 • 13862 Posts

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"]That is how political asylum works though. airshocker

And if you support that you're a sh*tty human being. Perfectly fine with allowing certain people to escape justice because you agree with him.

lol calm down, no need to turn it personal

I said nothing of the sort. I'm just pointing out what political asylum is, and yes I do support that in certain instances absolutely.

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#128 Abbeten
Member since 2012 • 3140 Posts

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

What about all the news sites that reported on it? He didn't leak the information, he just published what was leaked to him.

airshocker

It's a crime if it's shown he aided Manning in getting the information, or compensated him in any way.

Is there any actual evidence that he did this?
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#129 Ravensmash
Member since 2010 • 13862 Posts
[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

What about all the news sites that reported on it? He didn't leak the information, he just published what was leaked to him.

Abbeten

It's a crime if it's shown he aided Manning in getting the information, or compensated him in any way.

Is there any actual evidence that he did this?

No.
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#131 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
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[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Eh...why should Ecuador make this their fight. Send him back.Ravensmash

Because he applied for political asylum and they granted him it...

Anyway, I'm mixed on the issue. I want to see him have a fair trial over his rape allegations, but I do not want to see the guy extradited to the US at all.

I dont think he is at risk of being extradited to the US. Is he even charged with a crime in the US? I believe he was to be sent to Sweden to face rape and assault charges. As far as i know, the swedish government is fairly liberal and not a US lapdog.
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#132 seahorse123
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[QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="seahorse123"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] WTF is wrong with you? I gave you the reason. Sweden wants him to answer for the rape allegations. Period.

But what else... so you telling me that's the only reason you don't like him? say yes or no

Why are you so concerned with whether or not one man likes another.

He seems to be so bothered about saying his a hypocrite but he does not give a reasonable explanation accept the rape case so I think it's a reasonable thing to ask
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#133 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
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Is there any actual evidence that he did this?Abbeten

Why is Assange hiding if he didn't do anything wrong?

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#134 LJS9502_basic  Online
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[QUOTE="seahorse123"][QUOTE="thegerg"][QUOTE="seahorse123"] But what else... so you telling me that's the only reason you don't like him? say yes or no

Why are you so concerned with whether or not one man likes another.

He seems to be so bothered about saying his a hypocrite but he does not give a reasonable explanation accept the rape case so I think it's a reasonable thing to ask

Dude what are you on? Because I think Sweden has a right to take Assange to trial I'm a hypocrite? Are you using big words that you don't know the meaning of here?
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#135 Abbeten
Member since 2012 • 3140 Posts

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]Is there any actual evidence that he did this?airshocker

Why is Assange hiding if he didn't do anything wrong?

Whoa this is not how our justice system works. Not at all. You should know better than this.
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kuraimen

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#136 kuraimen
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[QUOTE="Ravensmash"]That is how political asylum works though. airshocker

And if you support that you're a sh*tty human being. Perfectly fine with allowing certain people to escape justice because you agree with him.

Yeah yet you're perfectly fine for letting governments keeping secret human right violations and criminal acts. Sure you don't think that's what a non sh1tty human being should do??
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#137 LJS9502_basic  Online
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[QUOTE="Ravensmash"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Eh...why should Ecuador make this their fight. Send him back.sonicare

Because he applied for political asylum and they granted him it...

Anyway, I'm mixed on the issue. I want to see him have a fair trial over his rape allegations, but I do not want to see the guy extradited to the US at all.

I dont think he is at risk of being extradited to the US. Is he even charged with a crime in the US? I believe he was to be sent to Sweden to face rape and assault charges. As far as i know, the swedish government is fairly liberal and not a US lapdog.

Exactly. I don't see Sweden as interested in the US issues.
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#138 seahorse123
Member since 2012 • 1237 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="seahorse123"][QUOTE="thegerg"] Why are you so concerned with whether or not one man likes another.

He seems to be so bothered about saying his a hypocrite but he does not give a reasonable explanation accept the rape case so I think it's a reasonable thing to ask

Dude what are you on? Because I think Sweden has a right to take Assange to trial I'm a hypocrite? Are you using big words that you don't know the meaning of here?

So that's the only reason the rape case YES or NO
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#139 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Whoa this is not how our justice system works. Not at all. You should know better than this.Abbeten

What the hell are you talking about? He's hiding to avoid authorities questioning him. So what is he hiding? I'd like to know.

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#140 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Yeah yet you're perfectly fine for letting governments keeping secret human right violations and criminal acts. Sure you don't think that's what a non sh1tty human being should do??kuraimen

Don't come at me talking about human rights violations. :lol: I'm not the one that supports Middle Eastern countries.

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#141 Postal_Guy
Member since 2006 • 2643 Posts

if he really was innocent of that rape charge, he'd just go to Sweden and deal with it. All this just makes me believe he is guilty

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#142 Abbeten
Member since 2012 • 3140 Posts

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]Whoa this is not how our justice system works. Not at all. You should know better than this.airshocker

What the hell are you talking about? He's hiding to avoid authorities questioning him. So what is he hiding? I'd like to know.

Your evidence of his wrongdoing is 'why is he hiding if he's innocent?' That is not sufficient to satisfy burden of proof. You need actual concrete evidence other than 'HE LOOKS SHIFTY. HE'S CLEARLY GUILTY.' You can THINK he's hiding something, that's fine. But the fact that a person is hiding is not and has never been sufficient to bring that person to trial.
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#143 LJS9502_basic  Online
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[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="seahorse123"] He seems to be so bothered about saying his a hypocrite but he does not give a reasonable explanation accept the rape case so I think it's a reasonable thing to askseahorse123
Dude what are you on? Because I think Sweden has a right to take Assange to trial I'm a hypocrite? Are you using big words that you don't know the meaning of here?

So that's the only reason the rape case YES or NO

I think I've told you that several times. This thread is about Sweden and the rape case. Period.

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#144 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="Ravensmash"] Because he applied for political asylum and they granted him it...

Anyway, I'm mixed on the issue. I want to see him have a fair trial over his rape allegations, but I do not want to see the guy extradited to the US at all.

LJS9502_basic
I dont think he is at risk of being extradited to the US. Is he even charged with a crime in the US? I believe he was to be sent to Sweden to face rape and assault charges. As far as i know, the swedish government is fairly liberal and not a US lapdog.

Exactly. I don't see Sweden as interested in the US issues.

As we speak the world is divided in political blocks. The asian block is getting stronger and stronger and western governments are feeling the pressure. The US and Europe has been allies for a long time, from now on I think the ties will just get stronger to counter the power of China and its allies. That's no secret that's the sociopolitical makeup of the world. So of course Sweden will mostly do what US asks of them, their economy and political relevance depends greatly on the US support not to mention that Sweden will be representing an even bigger block which is the European Union.
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LJS9502_basic

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#145 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180107 Posts
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sonicare"] I dont think he is at risk of being extradited to the US. Is he even charged with a crime in the US? I believe he was to be sent to Sweden to face rape and assault charges. As far as i know, the swedish government is fairly liberal and not a US lapdog.

Exactly. I don't see Sweden as interested in the US issues.

As we speak the world is divided in political blocks. The asian block is getting stronger and stronger and western governments are feeling the pressure. The US and Europe has been allies for a long time, from now on I think the ties will just get stronger to counter the power of China and its allies. That's no secret that's the sociopolitical makeup of the world. So of course Sweden will mostly do what US asks of them, their economy and political relevance depends greatly on the US support not to mention that Sweden will be representing an even bigger block which is the European Union.

That's supposition though.
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kuraimen

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#146 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="Abbeten"]Whoa this is not how our justice system works. Not at all. You should know better than this.Abbeten

What the hell are you talking about? He's hiding to avoid authorities questioning him. So what is he hiding? I'd like to know.

Your evidence of his wrongdoing is 'why is he hiding if he's innocent?' That is not sufficient to satisfy burden of proof. You need actual concrete evidence other than 'HE LOOKS SHIFTY. HE'S CLEARLY GUILTY.' You can THINK he's hiding something, that's fine. But the fact that a person is hiding is not and has never been sufficient to bring that person to trial.

I bet the jews during Nazi Germany hid because they were guilty too :P
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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#147 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sonicare"] I dont think he is at risk of being extradited to the US. Is he even charged with a crime in the US? I believe he was to be sent to Sweden to face rape and assault charges. As far as i know, the swedish government is fairly liberal and not a US lapdog.

Exactly. I don't see Sweden as interested in the US issues.

As we speak the world is divided in political blocks. The asian block is getting stronger and stronger and western governments are feeling the pressure. The US and Europe has been allies for a long time, from now on I think the ties will just get stronger to counter the power of China and its allies. That's no secret that's the sociopolitical makeup of the world. So of course Sweden will mostly do what US asks of them, their economy and political relevance depends greatly on the US support not to mention that Sweden will be representing an even bigger block which is the European Union.

I dont know about that. The US and Europe are very different and arent always on the best of terms. I highly doubt Sweden would just "do what the US wants it to do". I'm sure if that was the case, we'd being seeing leaks all over about how swedish officials are upset with being forced to do this.
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deactivated-6127ced9bcba0

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#148 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Your evidence of his wrongdoing is 'why is he hiding if he's innocent?' That is not sufficient to satisfy burden of proof. You need actual concrete evidence other than 'HE LOOKS SHIFTY. HE'S CLEARLY GUILTY.' You can THINK he's hiding something, that's fine. But the fact that a person is hiding is not and has never been sufficient to bring that person to trial. Abbeten

I never said it was sufficient to bring him in for trial. Sufficient enough to question him, certainly. He's obviously hiding something.

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kuraimen

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#149 kuraimen
Member since 2010 • 28078 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Exactly. I don't see Sweden as interested in the US issues.

As we speak the world is divided in political blocks. The asian block is getting stronger and stronger and western governments are feeling the pressure. The US and Europe has been allies for a long time, from now on I think the ties will just get stronger to counter the power of China and its allies. That's no secret that's the sociopolitical makeup of the world. So of course Sweden will mostly do what US asks of them, their economy and political relevance depends greatly on the US support not to mention that Sweden will be representing an even bigger block which is the European Union.

That's supposition though.

That's what political analysts say. The world is no longer about countries but mostly about economic and political powers. Why do you think that even Taiwan and Japan is getting closer to China? is it because they like them? of course not but the political and economic power Asia represents as a block is something difficult to let pass. We have to be aware of the big picture to understand such things. This is not about Sweden and US alone.
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LJS9502_basic

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#150 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180107 Posts
[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] As we speak the world is divided in political blocks. The asian block is getting stronger and stronger and western governments are feeling the pressure. The US and Europe has been allies for a long time, from now on I think the ties will just get stronger to counter the power of China and its allies. That's no secret that's the sociopolitical makeup of the world. So of course Sweden will mostly do what US asks of them, their economy and political relevance depends greatly on the US support not to mention that Sweden will be representing an even bigger block which is the European Union.

That's supposition though.

That's what political analysts say. The world is no longer about countries but mostly about economic and political powers. Why do you think that even Taiwan and Japan is getting closer to China? is it because they like them? of course not but the political and economic power Asia represents as a block is something difficult to let pass. We have to be aware of the big picture to understand such things. This is not about Sweden and US alone.

That doesn't mean Sweden is going to hand over Assange. I don't see the Swedish as particularly interested in the US and Wikileaks. The US and Sweden aren't close allies and they aren't enemies. I doubt that will change any time soon. Seems more to be a reason for Assange to avoid court than anything else.