French Senate passes ban on full Muslim veils

You don't think walking into a store wearing a ski mask will cause panic as well? How bout several people walking in at once?

sSubZerOo

A ski mask is not a burqa.

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]I know, right? All the people who support women covering themselves up fully should also support people if they wish to walk around fully nude and with just as much vigour to boot.metroidfood

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] They can walk in public and do all the time; I see them on my sidewalk every week (hell, I've ESCORTED ONE in public in a full lion suit).

Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Since I never stated that I have no idea why you brought it up. However, there is a public safety issue with covered faces. Period.sSubZerOo

I brought it up because the person I quoted, the reason I originally wrote what you quoted, compared wearing a veil to shooting blanks in a crowded area.

You don't think walking into a store wearing a ski mask will cause panic as well? How bout several people walking in at once?

Ski mask, maybe. Veil? No. They arn't exactly the same thing.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

You don't think walking into a store wearing a ski mask will cause panic as well? How bout several people walking in at once?

metroidfood

A ski mask is not a burqa.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

I brought it up because the person I quoted, the reason I originally wrote what you quoted, compared wearing a veil to shooting blanks in a crowded area.

Pixel-Pirate

You don't think walking into a store wearing a ski mask will cause panic as well? How bout several people walking in at once?

Ski mask, maybe. Veil? No. They arn't exactly the same thing.

*walks into a store wearing a Red Sox cap*

Clerk: OHMYGOD A CRIMNAL EVERYBODY GET ON THE FLOOR!

[QUOTE="Filthybastrd"]

As far as I'm concerned, the Niqab is a means of opressing women.

"blablabla, they may actually want to"...

Don't tell me anyone could possibly want to dress like this unless being specifically brought up to that mindset.

Pixel-Pirate

"No one could possibly want to do something I wouldn't want to do! It's not like there are 6 billion people on the planet with different mindsets!"

I don't require peopel to agree with me but I believe you're trying too hard with the understanding of diferent cultures.

It's clearly a restriction imposed only on the female gender. Can you come up with any positive sides to being required to completely conceal yourself in public? What's the symbolism behind being concealed? You don't think it implies the least bit of ownership and control?

How would you feel about being required to dress up like a damn ninja every day? Strikes me as sort of unpractical.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="grape_of_wrath"] 'Go out and let's see how far you get' is not a legal argument..... Can you,or any others who share your arguments(picking your posts is a coincidence...) provide legal evidence? I haven't heard about banning articles of clothing in western countires, before....grape_of_wrath

http://blogs.findlaw.com/legally_weird/2010/02/tampa-man-arrested-for-wearing-clown-mask-in-public.html

Anydisguise in public is illegal, authoritiessaid.Even on Halloween, adults aren't allowed to enter any businesses or stores with their faces covered.

In the US its usually by a state by state thing.

Actually quite a few states do not allow it.. Especially in places such as banks, or stores.. Yet again many places in the states if you walk around with a ski mask on, you will at very least be approached by a law enforcement officer telling you to take it off.. Or you will be ticketed and or arrested.. I have seen the exact same thing happen in my state of Michigan.. .. If these people are able to wear such things to a point that it has even more coverage then a simple ski mask.. Then I should have the right to be wearin ga ski mask 24/7 as well... Don't you think that to be a huge detriment for police officers if they can't readily identify people with cameras or witnesses if every one is wearing a mask that completely distorts any identifiers out side of the most basic descriptions?

[QUOTE="metroidfood"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

You don't think walking into a store wearing a ski mask will cause panic as well? How bout several people walking in at once?

LJS9502_basic

A ski mask is not a burqa.

But they wouldn't envoke the same reaction. In popular media a guy wearing a skimask is ALWAYS a guy killing/robbing some place. A veil and burka are not the same thing. Just because they do similar things does not make them the same thing or have the same effect on people.

Useless they need to ban women from wearing shirts.

kidsmelly

Another freedom gone in the name of safety. I am appalled by this. LaPiyamasDeGato

Any "religious freedom" that could endanger public and/or national security should not be allowed. It is good that they have passed this and are going for a full ban. Anyone should not be allowed to cover their face in public, no matter what religion they might be practicing.

foxhound_fox

No nation is fully free. If Muslim women wish to be pious then they can utilise the hijab, al-amira, shayla, khimar, or the chador. It's just the niqab and burka that are banned. 5:2 sounds good to me.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] No it's not done all the time...it's never done here. LJS9502_basic

*walks into a store wearing a Red Sox cap*

Clerk: OHMYGOD A CRIMNAL EVERYBODY GET ON THE FLOOR!

DJ-Lafleur

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="Filthybastrd"]

As far as I'm concerned, the Niqab is a means of opressing women.

"blablabla, they may actually want to"...

Don't tell me anyone could possibly want to dress like this unless being specifically brought up to that mindset.

Filthybastrd

"No one could possibly want to do something I wouldn't want to do! It's not like there are 6 billion people on the planet with different mindsets!"

I don't require peopel to agree with me but I believe you're trying too hard with the understanding of diferent cultures.

It's clearly a restriction imposed only on the female gender. Can you come up with any positive sides to being required to completely conceal yourself in public? What's the symbolism behind being concealed? You don't think it implies the least bit of ownership and control?

How would you feel about being required to dress up like a damn ninja every day? Strikes me as sort of unpractical.

No one is required to do that in the west so I don't see your point. If they want to, I don't see the problem. If I wanted to dress as a ninja every day (which sounds kinda cool....) then that doesn't mean I was brainwashed.

And please don't state "Well...all of them were just brainwashed/forced!" trying to generalize huge groups of people as being under some mind control device is just silly.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

I brought it up because the person I quoted, the reason I originally wrote what you quoted, compared wearing a veil to shooting blanks in a crowded area.

Pixel-Pirate

You don't think walking into a store wearing a ski mask will cause panic as well? How bout several people walking in at once?

Ski mask, maybe. Veil? No. They arn't exactly the same thing.

Veil goes down a huge spectrum of kinds.. And there are ones that give even more concealment then a ski mask.. Infact some look like executioner hoods.. I have np with teh get up.. And if they watn to wear the rest, just not the viel.. Along with sunglasses.. So be it.. There is more to sunglasses then just religious, they protect eye sight against sun..

No nation is fully free. If Muslim women wish to be pious then they can utilise the hijab, al-amira, shayla, khimar, or the chador. It's just the niqab and burka that are banned. 5:2 sounds good to me.

Hexagon_777

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

You don't think walking into a store wearing a ski mask will cause panic as well? How bout several people walking in at once?

sSubZerOo

Ski mask, maybe. Veil? No. They arn't exactly the same thing.

Veil goes down a huge spectrum of kinds.. And there are ones that give even more concealment then a ski mask.. Infact some look like executioner hoods.. I have np with teh get up.. And if they watn to wear the rest, just not the viel.. Along with sunglasses.. So be it.. There is more to sunglasses then just religious, they protect eye sight against sun..

Their country, their rules, simple as that. Also, I hate the veil with a passion.GazaAli

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="metroidfood"]

A ski mask is not a burqa.

Pixel-Pirate

But they wouldn't envoke the same reaction. In popular media a guy wearing a skimask is ALWAYS a guy killing/robbing some place. A veil and burka are not the same thing. Just because they do similar things does not make them the same thing or have the same effect on people.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="topsemag55"]

No, irresponsible people kill, not the gun, as it requires something to operate it...doesn't have to be a gun either - a knife, spear, machete.

We don't believe in punishing lawful gun owners, just criminals who commit crimes with a weapon.

topsemag55

I humbly suggest you look over the thread...where did I post that I support this?

I'm still waiting.*taps imaginary foot*:P:lol:

I guess nobody is willing to support full nudity as much as fully disguising yourself in public. Two extremes on opposite ends, but why is only one being supported?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"] Go to the local zoo or wherever a jewelry shop is being opened then. It's not illegal whatsoever.Theokhoth

As far as I'm concerned, the Niqab is a means of opressing women.

"blablabla, they may actually want to"...

Don't tell me anyone could possibly want to dress like this unless being specifically brought up to that mindset.

Filthybastrd

That woman actually looks like she's kinda gorgeous behind that. Damn it!

Any "religious freedom" that could endanger public and/or national security should not be allowed. It is good that they have passed this and are going for a full ban. Anyone should not be allowed to cover their face in public, no matter what religion they might be practicing.

foxhound_fox

My thoughts on the full faced veil... any item that fully covers someones face shouldn't be worn in public. Plus the veil isn't religious, its cultural... and France is not an Islamic country and therefore should not have to adopt Islamic culture if they do not wish to do so.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

You don't think walking into a store wearing a ski mask will cause panic as well? How bout several people walking in at once?

sSubZerOo

Ski mask, maybe. Veil? No. They arn't exactly the same thing.

Veil goes down a huge spectrum of kinds.. And there are ones that give even more concealment then a ski mask.. Infact some look like executioner hoods.. I have np with teh get up.. And if they watn to wear the rest, just not the viel.. Along with sunglasses.. So be it.. There is more to sunglasses then just religious, they protect eye sight against sun..

I don't see how you refuted that ski masks and veils are not the same thing. Nor do they look the same. I have never seen a veil that was identical to a ski mask.

I guess nobody is willing to support full nudity as much as fully disguising yourself in public. Two extremes on opposite ends, but why is only one being supported?

Hexagon_777

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Ski mask, maybe. Veil? No. They arn't exactly the same thing.

Theokhoth

Veil goes down a huge spectrum of kinds.. And there are ones that give even more concealment then a ski mask.. Infact some look like executioner hoods.. I have np with teh get up.. And if they watn to wear the rest, just not the viel.. Along with sunglasses.. So be it.. There is more to sunglasses then just religious, they protect eye sight against sun..

Yes but sun glasses don't obscure your entire face what so ever.. Furthermore to do some thing that does, consists of people who have serious medical issues.. So yet again, this is a double standard.. Majority of states i have seen including the one I live in, you can be arrested or at very least ticketed for wearing thigns like a ski mask in a store..

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Ski masks are not allowed because the face is covered. LJS9502_basic

But they wouldn't envoke the same reaction. In popular media a guy wearing a skimask is ALWAYS a guy killing/robbing some place. A veil and burka are not the same thing. Just because they do similar things does not make them the same thing or have the same effect on people.

No, they are not the same thing. And saying the only reason people wear them is because they are forced would be as silly as me saying the only reason a woman puts on lipstick would be because their husbands made them.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

Any "religious freedom" that could endanger public and/or national security should not be allowed. It is good that they have passed this and are going for a full ban. Anyone should not be allowed to cover their face in public, no matter what religion they might be practicing.

joesh89

My thoughts on the full faced veil... any item that fully covers someones face shouldn't be worn in public. Plus the veil isn't religious, its cultural... and France is not an Islamic country and therefore should not have to adopt Islamic culture if they do not wish to do so.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Their country, their rules, simple as that. Also, I hate the veil with a passion.th3warr1or

[QUOTE="EdenProxy"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

"No one could possibly want to do something I wouldn't want to do! It's not like there are 6 billion people on the planet with different mindsets!"

Pixel-Pirate

Did you know there are people who also enjoy being hit?

Just because something sounds unpleasent to you, does not mean all 6 billion people on the planet would also dislike it. Or that, if they do like it, theres some conspiracy brainwashing going.

Don't generalize THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE as believing something. Theres really nothing that all 6 billion people agree with. Saying that the only people who could possibly want to wear that are brainwash victims/don't exist is just silly.

Oh dear... Do you know what a cutter is? Are you proposing that we should allow people to hurt themselves because they "like" it?

[QUOTE="grape_of_wrath"][QUOTE="GazaAli"] where is the generalization in that post?GazaAli

Don't you guys always brag about freedom of speech, adultry and such things :?

[QUOTE="SaudiFury"]

[QUOTE="Filthybastrd"]

As far as I'm concerned, the Niqab is a means of opressing women.

"blablabla, they may actually want to"...

Don't tell me anyone could possibly want to dress like this unless being specifically brought up to that mindset.

sSubZerOo

The term i think your thinking of is called Socialization.

but before you judge. i'd recommend reading on the word Ethnocentrism as well (everyone is guilty of it if you've been raised mainly in only one society).

Yes but yet again you can't help pointing out that this garb is most popular and used in places like Saudi Arabia and Iran.. Not in places like Egypt.. Furthermore if we are going to make this suggestion why is female circumcision banned? Where the women who do it fully believe its their passage to adulthood.. Its painful? There are quite a few rights of passages that are painful that people agree to do.. This is hardly a excuse.

I know about the female circumcision in the Sub-Saharan africa. It's not even sanctioned by Islam, the only one is male circumcision (which is the same as the Jews do). the female one dates back to the time of the Pharaoh's as they're way to control women by taking away their sexual sensation so they're tempted to cheat. It's been outlawed by countries, NGO's and various social groups in the Muslim world have been trying to educate people on it. but remember it's primarily the third world. where in places like Saudi even. Culture, Tradition and Religion are one and the same.

I have read and heard women from Sudan, Yemen, southern Saudi, and Egypt talk about it as though it was a right. mind you these women probably didn't read it anywhere, like any pop-culture factoid was probably just told it was true. The same sort of ignorance is (thankfully) coming to an end as Saudi women are slowly figuring out their rights in divorce cases (Ministry of Interior gave out a report that there has been a high spike in divorces recently).

I'd argue that is thanks to the internet. But the same cannot be said for places like Asir province of Saudi, Yemen, Sudan and perhaps even parts of rural southern Egypt.

My uncle for instance, is worried about his daughter not properly covering up (like a lot, much to my dad - his older brother - trying to advise him to ease up). my uncle is NOT religious, what he cares about is what OTHERS are gonna think of her and him by extension as he father of the household. That isn't religious that culture.

It was not all that long ago in Americana where everyone in the neighborhood seemed to know your business. but like everything things change.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

But they wouldn't envoke the same reaction. In popular media a guy wearing a skimask is ALWAYS a guy killing/robbing some place. A veil and burka are not the same thing. Just because they do similar things does not make them the same thing or have the same effect on people.

Pixel-Pirate

No, they are not the same thing. And saying the only reason people wear them is because they are forced would be as silly as me saying the only reason a woman puts on lipstick would be because their husbands made them.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="EdenProxy"] They have that midset cause thats how they've been raised. Same with American women in the 18th and 19 centuries. They wear this because there families and society makes them.

EdenProxy

Did you know there are people who also enjoy being hit?

Just because something sounds unpleasent to you, does not mean all 6 billion people on the planet would also dislike it. Or that, if they do like it, theres some conspiracy brainwashing going.

Don't generalize THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE as believing something. Theres really nothing that all 6 billion people agree with. Saying that the only people who could possibly want to wear that are brainwash victims/don't exist is just silly.

Really, if you want to believe no woman on earth wants to wear one, go ahead. It's just seriously unrealistic. No one is arguing that some are not forced. I am arguing that saying not a single case exists of a woman who genuinely wants to wear it is just silly.

I just wish people would stop dressing up anti-burka rhetoric with some sort of "We're trying to help women! (by taking away womens right to wear certain clothing. Makes sense!)"

Atleast the "safety" thing sounds more genuine.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Then you misread my post. I specifically said mascots can ONLY wear the costume at specific places....which is NOT walking around town in public as a daily habit. Obviously the zoo allows their mascot to wear the costume dude.:roll:

7557119a-b0b4-411f-8473-9ab0e1e5a8cc1.03.01LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] And if it's freezing out? Look....they are the same thing. And frankly the custom is because the cultures are men centric. I don't believe the Qu'ran specifically calls for them.LJS9502_basic

No, they are not the same thing. And saying the only reason people wear them is because they are forced would be as silly as me saying the only reason a woman puts on lipstick would be because their husbands made them.

We are not talking about the middle east. France is not located in the middle east and woman obviously exist in the west who wear it where no law forces them to. Even *gasp* natural born citizens of western countries!

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

Any "religious freedom" that could endanger public and/or national security should not be allowed. It is good that they have passed this and are going for a full ban. Anyone should not be allowed to cover their face in public, no matter what religion they might be practicing.

joesh89

My thoughts on the full faced veil... any item that fully covers someones face shouldn't be worn in public. Plus the veil isn't religious, its cultural... and France is not an Islamic country and therefore should not have to adopt Islamic culture if they do not wish to do so.

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]No nation is fully free. If Muslim women wish to be pious then they can utilise the hijab, al-amira, shayla, khimar, or the chador. It's just the niqab and burka that are banned. 5:2 sounds good to me.Theokhoth

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"] They can wear it in public, on sidewalks blocks away.Theokhoth

[QUOTE="joesh89"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

Any "religious freedom" that could endanger public and/or national security should not be allowed. It is good that they have passed this and are going for a full ban. Anyone should not be allowed to cover their face in public, no matter what religion they might be practicing.

Theokhoth

My thoughts on the full faced veil... any item that fully covers someones face shouldn't be worn in public. Plus the veil isn't religious, its cultural... and France is not an Islamic country and therefore should not have to adopt Islamic culture if they do not wish to do so.

I agree!

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Veil goes down a huge spectrum of kinds.. And there are ones that give even more concealment then a ski mask.. Infact some look like executioner hoods.. I have np with teh get up.. And if they watn to wear the rest, just not the viel.. Along with sunglasses.. So be it.. There is more to sunglasses then just religious, they protect eye sight against sun..

sSubZerOo

Yes but sun glasses don't obscure your entire face what so ever.. Furthermore to do some thing that does, consists of people who have serious medical issues.. So yet again, this is a double standard.. Majority of states i have seen including the one I live in, you can be arrested or at very least ticketed for wearing thigns like a ski mask in a store..

Yeah she clearly wanted this to happen

EdenProxy

No please find a few hundred million more of those. Again, no once is arguing that some woman don't want to wear it. They are arguing that some do, regardless if you think generalizing that every woman hates it is correct.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

No, they are not the same thing. And saying the only reason people wear them is because they are forced would be as silly as me saying the only reason a woman puts on lipstick would be because their husbands made them.

Pixel-Pirate

We are not talking about the middle east. France is not located in the middle east and woman obviously exist in the west who wear it where no law forces them to. Even *gasp* natural born citizens of western countries!

No piece clothing should be banned on a national level.