Gun Attack on French Magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 12.

There is no solution. It's a problem without a solution. How do you punish those who are willing to die for their beliefs? What do you do? Throw them in jail to further spread their shit? Or give them what they want and kill them? We have no deterrent. The best we can do is show them that we will not be swayed by their brutal acts of violence. Show them they they cannot break our ideals and take our freedom. Sure this sounds pretty cliche, but it's what the free world is built upon and we can't stop now.

Nope i'm not saying it at all. If they do harm , punish em accordingly.

Horrible though the attack was, it should nonetheless be seen in the context of France's own extensive use of military action abroad.

The latter is not limited to French participation in the depredations of Afghanistan and Iraq (as part of ISAF), but also includes military activity in North Africa that was cynically presented as "humanitarian" but that really entailed killing people who stood in the way of French and/or IMF economic goals.

The attack could even be seen as a legitimate act of war ...

France joined "The War on Terror (TM)" and Terror decided to fight back.

How would you feel if I were to tell you that your father raped your under-aged mother and that's basically how you came to be.

Complete freedom of speech is bullshit. At the very best it's a double standard.

LOL. Keep your personal opinions to yourself. Many western thinkers have written pages on the greatness of Muhammand (pbuh). Maybe it's time you stop buying propaganda and settle for the truth instead.

Imagine if the founding fathers had said that, imagine if Rosa Parks had said that, Imagine if Lincoln had said that etc...........

Allow me to give you a quote that fits your train of thought.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Piss off with your Islamic bs. Religion of peace my ass. What a terrible religion. Peace will never come to the violent followers of this backwards religion.

I have the common sense to not get my feelings hurt over someone's opinion whom i don't care about.

I also believe you misunderstand what "freedom of speech" is. Heck, most people don't understand it. Its entirely about the fact that the government can't reprimand you for protesting. That doesn't mean that your speech is free from consequences from people outside of the government. That doesn't excuse savages from getting their widdle feewings are hurt.

So why is it ok for me to draw a picture of Jesus snorting coke while Buddha and Ganesha French kiss? Why is it ok for me to say that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry or adopt children? Why is it ok for me to call Scientology a scam and it's followers brainwashed? Why is it ok for me to make a joke about any person in the entire world apart from some middle eastern child rapist that some people have taken a shine to?

Absolute freedom of speech is silly. You shouldn't be allowed to make threats to other people. But saying you shouldn't be allowed to insult a person or make a joke about them because YOU like them is absolutely ridiculous. Muhammad deserves no more special treatment than any other person in the world. You can insult me, I can insult you, and we all can insult Muhammad and any other person.

Peace be to you. I am a follower of Muhammad (pbuh) and in response to your antagonizing post I will say nothing but peace. (Just like Muhammad (pbuh) did). You will not burden my sins nor will I burden yours. You go your way and I'll go mine.

[and when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: "to us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant."]

Peace is a two-way street. One side cannot bully the other into submitting.

It's why we had wars to gain our freedoms in the first place. I can guarantee that most people in the West will so willingly give up their freedoms (at least not in the US). Especially when faced with violence.

Oh I see Islam getting painted in the same color as those fascist terrorists..... nice job at being dumbasses people!

something about Islam that seems to breed violence. Anyway, we'll keep making fun of moothammed and they'll keep getting mad and doing stupid shit and then we'll keep bombing the piss out of them for it. vicious cycle.

So you instead turn to backhanded insults. Hypocrite.

No, it's illiteracy.

Appeasement won't work with these animals (extremists). They need to be wiped out. All of them.

No I don't.

@toast_burner: Say someone is spreading the myth that homosexuality is contagious. Should he be free to do so? Sure criticizing people based on facts is freedom of speech and whoever is against it is an idiot. That's why I personally don't get mad when people call Muhammad (pbuh) a warlord. (Eventhough I disagree with them) But when you start spreading lies for the sake of propaganda you have to be prosecuted and it's ridiculous to think otherwise.

Spreading lies=/= Freedom of speech.

I don't support these murderers.

There were people who would frequently insult Muhammad (pbuh) during his lifetime and guess what he did to them? Nothing.

You most certainly did.

" ... we seek not the ignorant."

That's calling him ignorant.

What propaganda? We're talking about jokes and insults. Stop trying to shift the goal post.

If you can't think of a response just don't respond. Don't try to change the subject to something completely different.

Saw the unedited footage on live-leak. Police officer shot laying out the ground - puts his hands up for mercy: shoots him in the head at point blank range like it's nothing.

Seems like America breeds violence. Bomb the piss out of it: yes?

Ignorant about my religion not ignorant in general.

Let me make it understandable for you. "Homosexuality is a contagious disease." Should people be able to publish this insult/joke/propaganda or whatever you're gonna call it in their magazines or not? And don't play semantics.

Thoughts are with the families.

How am I playing semantics? What you're talking about has absolutely nothing to do with anything previously mentioned in this thread. Can you seriously not tell the difference between a joke/insult and propaganda?

And no it shouldn't be illegal to say that. Being wrong is not a crime. Schools and other places of authority shouldn't be allowed to teach it, just like how schools shouldn't teach creationism and other lies as fact.

Can you get back on topic now? Your pathetic attempt at dodging the question has gotten boring now.

It's upsetting that in the wake of such attack, all we hear in the news are the same platitudes about Peace and the Islam. We often mistake cowardice as tolerance and become accomplices with such evil. We are for freedom of press and expression but we can't even candidly discuss whether there is merit to the issue of the conflict between modernity (and it's values) and Muslim populations.

What question? You mean why you can tell lies about other things and not get prosecuted but when someone lies about Islam we demand his prosecution? It's because of the flawed system that doesn't punish liars. Telling lies by any means be it the news a satirical magazine or a simple joke should be illegal. Expressing your opinions however (as long as there is at least some evidence to back it) is not. Pretty simple.

Why do you keep going on about lies? Either address what I said or don't address it at all.

You forgot to put public schools and public places of Authority.

What a private school or place of authority teaches is no ones business and in a democracy with freedom of speech and no state censorship, that would fall in under that.

What lies are you talking about?

Also you seem to mistake America and most western countries as a muslim controlled entity. Religion is a private choice and no religion shall ever dictate what a western society should or shouldn't do. So no it should be illegal since freedom of speech is equally as important as freedom to practice what ever religion you want.

Suspects

What's a public place of authority? As far as I'm aware no such thing exists. If you mean things like church then you're mistaken. They have no authority as anyone can choose to ignore them, it's only those that want to obey that obey.

As for non-state run schools (which I will from this point onwards call public school) I don't believe they should be allowed to teach creationism. Education is a basic human right. If a school teaches lies then it denies that child their right to a decent education. You could have a place that teaches creationism (such as a church) but it can't function as an alternative to a school. Public schools are still schools and therefore must fit within the curriculum. If they don't then they aren't really schools.

More likely an American false flag operation.

There is something seriously wrong with a religion who can make people born and raised in a western society do such a brutal horrible act.

But after 9/11 i am no longer surprised by what religion all religion can make people do, and all religion should be eradicated from earth.

Maybe westerners do but for example we Europeans dont take it as its nothing. It should not be criticized or mocked. It is not a respectful thing to do by any means.

Leave them alone, period. See they never really fucked with any one until one day the corporate US war machine got their fingers onto rich resources there.

We fucked with them, still fucking with them and now we make fun of them, what do people expect for real?

I do agree that this kind of violence is excessive but happens in US all the time for no reason besides those people are medicated or not right in the head.

That's nice.

Yep, but dont think i meant with violence.

Violence only breed more violence. Religion should be fought with education and science.

lmao

What's wrong with what he said? everyone knows that Europe is in Asia.

Islam as a region, needs to be wholly eradicated.

Such barbarism has no place in 2015.

Religion of peace my ass.

For the love of everything that is holy, will you guys please check your quote chains.

Wikipedia: Irreverent and stridently non-conformist in tone, the publication is strongly antireligious^[2] and left-wing, publishing articles on the extreme right, Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, politics, culture, etc. According to its former editor, Charb (Stéphane Charbonnier), the magazine's editorial viewpoint reflects "all components of left wing pluralism, and even abstainers".

This is what bothers me. Those guys weren't anti-Muslim, they were anti-BS. And they didn't try to impose their point of view to anyone. So I'd really like to know why they were targeted by these fundamentalist assholes. Not that anyone diserves to die this way, but out of all the hatefull people (and there's lots of people who truly hate Muslims) they decided to shoot dead a group of small time caricaturists. What exactly is their problem with them? The fact that they actually have a sense of humour?

@indzman: Islam clearly is part of western culture, as depicted by those western drawings and the millions of Muslims following Islam in the western world.

The attack wasnt about western action in mideast country. They killed cartoonists and editors because they didnt like their message. Some assholes cant understand the basis of freedom of speech and will try to kill anyone that doesnt conform to their views.

And the french are such pus sies on matters like this I'll be anything they do nothing.

@sonicare: Kind of what happens when you mix Extreme views with a lot of the time uneducated people, who are from parts of the world that hold no value towards the values of the current places they live.

What´s a private place of Authority, i just used your definition.

And a public school is a government/state/federal run school. So please at least get that correct and not mud up the definitions.

But i disagree with your assumption that we as a society can interfere in what a privately owned and run school can do, we can put up rules to qualify them for any state/Federal funding etc. But if we cannot break freedom of speech or fundamental democratic rights.

You can be 100% sure that the many islamic, Christian, jewish schools out there has a lot of their religious teachings in their curriculum.

No they aren't. They held a peaceful rally with a huge sign that said, "we are not afraid". I give the french all the credit in the world for standing up to these scumbag bullies and not backing down. That's true courage.

The only thing that has any authority is the government.

In the UK we call them public schools as they are funded and run by members of the public rather than the state.

Then why are you allowed to interfere with the right to a decent education? You can still teach kids about creationism, just don't do it in a school. You say that we can set up rules, so why can't one of those rules be not teaching creationism? Would you be ok with schools teaching that the earth is flat and that 2+2=5? Thinking the earth is flat is just as wrong as creationism.

Private schools are... private. If they wanna teach creationism be my guess. The government setting certain requirements to gain state/federal funding isn't actually "interfering" since these private institutions have no right to public funding.

1. No religion or institution should be exempt from criticism and satire. Whoever thinks that the newspaper did wrong doing those drawings is simply wrong. The intolerance of these fanatics shouldn't be tolerated, simple as that.

2. Western governments should really rethink their evidently failed Middle East policies which only help create this kind of psychopathic monsters and make them stronger. I read that one of the attackers became part of Al Qaeda due to the Abu Ghraib abuses. Clearly the west's lack of responsable behaviour in what they've been doing in the ME is making it worst for everyone.