Gun Attack on French Magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 12.

Nothing peaceful. Unfortunately, you can't coexist with people who want to kill you.

That's the point, you haven't been trying your hardest or perhaps I should say your best. Plenty of reports of how disorganize the different security agencies inside France were working, let alone a larger problem of coordination and communication between the different national agencies.

Many have described it as "the US before 9/11" in terms of the organization.

And no, I'm not talking about passing any Patriot Acts. Europe needs to get their shit together.

Microsoft didn't change the policy because people asked them to, they changed it because it was negatively effecting their sales. Which further backs my point.

The only thing a company listens to is money. If people keep buying their stuff they won't change. It's when people stop buying their stuff that they change.

Perception plays a big role in things. I cannot see "Europe" openly moving in the direction of the U.S. when it comes to this sort of thing. Behind the scenes sure but that will always be held back by the public image of not being like the U.S. who carries most of the mud whether by rightful consequence or not.

To be honest I think open refusal to get their shit together will become a marching slogan that they will carry for many years to come, masked as the moral high road.

@deeliman: Listen to what Americans tell you, obviously. They know what's best for Europe /sarcasm

Clearly I was incorrect.

Look at funding for NATO, perhaps the US should go its own way and let the chips fall where they may. But of course, that isn't in the best interest of any of the parties and Europe knows the US will pick up the tap at the end.

@toast_burner: It was indeed affecting pre-orders before release (if that is what you are referring to, okay). Anyway, I disagree with your view that the only thing any company listens to or in other words cares about is money. That may have been the only mainstream business philosophy before, but there are new models of business in society in which businesses care about purpose first and then profits come afterwords.

Another way of saying it is the purpose is the driving force of profits in these new models of business. Whole Foods Market, for example, is a company that was made in order to offer communities a source of healthy food. Next, Tesla Motors is about decreasing use of fossil fuels and develop more sustainable forms of transportation. Another example is Khan Academy, a nonprofit company made to offer a "a free, world-class education for anyone, anywhere." In these three cases, the purpose comes before the money.

The Whole Foods Purpose Statement:

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/responsibly-grown/purpose-why-it-matters

Tesla Motors Mission Statement:

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/mission-tesla

About Khan Academy:

https://www.khanacademy.org/about

Therefore, to say that private companies do not listen to or care about anything besides money is simply not true. One could extend that conclusion's reasoning to protesting: In the case of a company caring about something, it is arguable that protest which challenges the actions of that company with reference to its purpose is not stupid. If not its purpose, then its value can be questioned in terms of social influence and then economic value afterwords.

Personally I'd like to see the tit for tat end in regards to all of this but if Europe wants to take some heat off the U.S. and get into more domestic tangos with the terrorists then I am okay with it.

U.S. needs no mask for the problems it has and if the measures we've taken somehow morally ****block Europe then that is something they can deal with. Not my home and frankly, with how things are looking, Europe is making mine just a bit safer in contrast.

So.. yeah.

And if a company does care about it would they stop caring about it because some people asked them to? Does Tesla care about decreasing fossil fuel because some people protest outside for them to do so? Or because they thought it's something good and because it gives them a selling point (albeit one that didn't quite work out for them)?

You can't expect someone to go completely against their ethics and business practices just because you hold up a sign saying you hate them, especially when you were never a customer of theirs anyway.

Links to any such reports you were talking about? Not that I don't believe you, it just sounds like an interesting read.

What are the non peaceful solutions then?

That's rather convenient ... in the same way that the death of the older Tsarnaev brother was convenient.

It's also convenient in the same way that the inevitable deaths of the 9/11 hijackers were convenient.

It's convenient in the same way that Lee Harvey Oswald's death was convenient.

How better to conceal the truth than by killing those who may reveal it?

@toast_burner: That depends on what is cared about and how the protesters argue their side. If they can successfully give a reason why a company's actions are counterproductive to something, it is possible that company shall change its mission. U.S. Steel, Standard Oil, and the New York Central Railroad System as well as J.P. Morgan's banking house were kinds of monopolies that had overwhelming control over their respective markets in the Gilded Age of society. The Muckrakers which were a group of writers, critics, and reporters exposed the wrongdoings of those businesses (which is what we are talking about, not only companies) and were part of the reason why America continues to have the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 and the Clayton Antitrust Act of 1914, parts of the United States antitrust law regime. Historically, public criticism of private businesses has led to changes in society.

One can argue that technically the American government made official changes and caused lasting impact, but the justice of that situation, at least, is more complex than that.

No bro. You, Stesilaus. They lost their voice for you. So that you could rise up and foam at the mouth.

**** pencils! We have Stesilaus!

I was watching CNN and MSNBC all morning and a number of analyst one after another continue to point to lapses on intelligence forces citing various sources on the intelligence community. It was a constant theme.

As Trauma Grips France, Government Faces Questions Over Intelligence Lapses

Experts Fear Terror Threat Is Greater Than Capacity of Security Agencies to Respond

Thanks, I didn't have to time to watch the news today, was at school all day and went to work after that :/

Not really. You're far more likely to get killed in America than most of Europe. And that's not even the evil minion force of "Islam"; that's just American culture.

I'm significantly safer than you matey.

Before anyone accuses you of bullshit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

You can stack pretty much the entire world again America would it comes to mass shootings: with a body count well beyond what Paris has suffered. Again: inherent and unique to American culture - not them evil Islam religions.

Wooo! #19 baby!

Intentional homicide does not cover involuntary manslaughter, another way of getting killed.

You forgot the foreplay I think.

Anyhow. I am not going to try and correct you and assume that you're smarter than the context of your reply to the context of mine. Nor am I going to try and delve into why you have such a knee jerk reaction in the first place. What I am going to do is wave you off on the train going someplace else and stay at the station.

Well I lied... I do feel sorry for you. Shit, where ever you live they must have never discussed how to properly use deflection.

So I was doing a contrast of how U.S., which the problems that I've openly admitted to existing, IS safer if attention moves elsewhere. The subject, or context, was the terrorists. I never said Islam. Also you could of just used italics for Islam. Saying something like evil minion force is something an child would use on the playground dude. I mean c'mon now. I have what can plainly be metaphorically seen as a basketball in my hand and you're going on about how it's called football not soccer.

Do you want a ball? Any ball? Do you think you deserve to have my ball? Here. Here is my ball. Now go paint it different and come back and try again.

I'm adding this just in case you didn't get it. Got your back, so don't worry.

I am not saying that the U.S. is safer than Europe. I am saying that if Europe keeps having their problems in the direction that they keep moving that attention will go along with it. By contrast, that means the U.S. deals with just a bit less. Safer, in contrast, to otherwise. Get it?

A broad coalition of nations invading and enforcing our ideals on the barbarians.

14 references to yourself in this post. Almost every sentence starting with "me" coupled with piss poor attempts at being condescending.

This is why people join ISIS.

Well I can see how someone who thinks anything above stupid is snobbish might feel the need to jump the shark.

...and with the recruitment quota the EU is filling compared to the U.S. you really should of left the last part out. Or as a separate post altogether. But I agree.

@uninspiredcup said:

@toast_burner said:

@uninspiredcup said:

@CreasianDevaili said:

Not my home and frankly, with how things are looking, Europe is making mine just a bit safer in contrast.

So.. yeah.

Not really. You're far more likely to get killed in America than most of Europe. And that's not even the evil minion force of "Islam"; that's just American culture.

I'm significantly safer than you matey.

Before anyone accuses you of bullshit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

You can stack pretty much the entire world again America would it comes to mass shootings: with a body count well beyond what Paris has suffered. Again: inherent and unique to American culture - not them evil Islam religions.

Jesus. Nation of peace.

@CreasianDevaili: All hail Stesilaus!!!

And yes, I like to collect newspapers front pages.

Have they caught the woman yet ? The fourth accomplice?

She went to Syria I guess. Flew out with a return ticket the day before and kept right on going.

Damn !!!

Evil monster should be forced to do page3 for the next 5 years.

A young Muslim man who hid Jewish supermarket hostages as they sought refuge from killer Amedy Coulibaly has been hailed a hero.

Lassana Bathily, originally from Mali in west Africa, is said to have shepherded terrified customers to safety in a chiller as the Islamic gunman took hold of the Hyper Cacher supermarket in Porte de Vincennes, Paris, yesterday.

Coulibaly executed four of the 19 hostages before police stormed the building and ended the terror, killing the gunman as he attempted to flee.

Mr Bathily has been praised for his quick-thinking actions since his role in helping customers.

He told BFMTV: "When they ran down, I opened the door (from the freezer).

"There are several people who came to me. I turned off the light, I turned off the freezer.

"When I turned off the cold, I put them (hostages) in, I closed the door, I told them to stay calm."

Reports in France state Mr Bathily, 24, helped lead six people to safety.

Several people called for Mr Bathily to be recognised for his actions as details of the episode emerged.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/paris-shootings-muslim-man-who-4955575

@uninspiredcup: That is a relief to hear

etc. etc. etc. and here's another one

@pie-junior: The funny thing is in Islam making images of human beings with features such as eyes ears nose is forbidden. Your argument is invalid :)

Those guys are sinning and I condemn their action.

You are joking right?

You have been playing too much grand theft auto and should take some time off from it. Learn what really causes school shootings, the culture has zero to do with it. Oh and America has multiple cultures, not one.

14 references to yourself in this post. Almost every sentence starting with "me" coupled with piss poor attempts at being condescending.

This is why people join ISIS.

Nice deflection..

My primary guess would be the the right to bear arms (which is intrinsically part of American culture) or something inherently specifically to do with America since it disproportionally dwarfs other countries by an almost incomprehensible margin.

Poor attempts to be condescending as well as obnoxious wont change that graph, nor statistics.

A country having many cultures: doesn't stop a country having a culture. This comment was utterly pointless and most likely puerile attempt at character sniping to 1+ me as opposed to actual substance. Would recommend you try not to do adopt that stye like the proceeding posts; it's a bad way to debate.

Uh FYI some of those policies were reversed pre launch. Back to your regularly scheduled arguing now.

Ad Hominem attacks over actual substance, sprinkled with massive amounts of condescending hypocrisy. Change your style if you want to be taken seriously, right now you given me nothing to work with.

Oh and the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with school shooting or crime in this country, would be the same if it was taken out. The rest is just an obvious troll attempt, since I have a strong don't feed the trolls policy this is the last time I will feed you.

This just came across as yet another reactionary post: more interested with me than the topic.

"You said something bad about America: now I'm going to get you, look how more clevereryer I am: **** you"

"Ad Hominem"/"condescending hypocrisy"

Ban all religion and treat it like a mental illness, close borders and put massive checks on everybody coming in, There, problem solved

Personally: I think typing this out and then going on to do your personal best in the most humanly obnoxious manner possible to attack someone for providing evidence America has issues: it kinda falls under that category.

Looking at those statistics and graphs though: it's quite right to keep an eye on you fellows - treat you like you have a mental illness: put borders up, since happily butchering each other comes natural compared to our more civilized countries.

^ I believe thats being a condescending prick...

of course my argument isn't invalid. your entire premise is founded on there being a different sensibility towards defamatory cartoons with muslims. There are thousands of deeply anti-semitic cartoons published in the muslim world on a very regular basis. doing a google image search for them will have you overrun (and this is in english, not arabic, turkish or persian).

Not to mention, i'm not inclined to believe the muslim religion has a strong prohibition on 'making images of human beings' considering how widespread these kinds of images are in the muslim world.

The whole muslim defence ITT is predicated on 'why are you making fun of this man who has millions of followers who like hims so much'. even I were to disregard the truly racist cartoons prevalent in every private andstate media in the middle-east, I have enough experience to determine you people have no scruples 'defamng' and insulting people and ideas with millions of supporters; be it western leaders, Captalism, Communism, Zionism, atheism etc.

You lot are just as irreverent as us. you're just much more self-righteous about it (and that's saying something).

@pie-junior: It's not my fault some people don't follow their religion properly. I simply stated it is against the religion. Whether people follow it or not is a different matter entirely. We Muslims, me included, have left the guidance of the Book in exchange for pursuing worldly pleasures. Notice how extravagantly Saudis live. They have even betrayed their own brothers in exchange for prosperity. And btw, you cannot determine whether a matter is true or not based on how many people do it. If you want proof for the image drawing thing here you go http://islamqa.info/en/39806

nicely steered into the only area where you have some leeway.

first, mockery is not only done through imagery. Are you against written or spoken mockery of George w bush or the state of Israel?

secondly, [wikipedia says] the depiction of all humans and animals is discouraged in the hadith and by the long tradition of Islamic authorities, especially Sunni ones. so... the guidance is not 'in the book' at all?

Thirdly, am I to understand that any muslim based TV broadcaster is a sinner, since they depict 'images of human beings'? what about muslims watching human imagery on television? how about you? do you watch television?

@pie-junior: Well actually from what I know, it is completely forbidden to make fun of others religions, making obscene drawings of their religious symbols etc. As for people like Bush and the state of Israel, I honestly cannot say because in this case they are openly at war against the Muslims. But we still should not make fun of Judaism, Bush's family etc. In this case perhaps it is necessary to expose the evils of the Bush regime, for example making it known to people the argument of fake WMDs used to justify the war.

As for the image-making thing, I admit that now I am officially confused. I am not sure anymore but that could probably mean I should stop watching TV haha. You win here.

Anyways I think I have derailed the thread for long enough. We can discuss further through PMs :)

Does not change the lax immigration policy coupled with an ever growing anti immigration movement given an ever louder voice. Europe is an easier target than the U.S. for the type of thing that happened in France. It still is, even after the effect, which cannot entirely be said of the U.S. however. Many in Europe would say that they are safer from being murdered than if living in the U.S. and for today I would say yes, that is true.

But I'm figuring within a year or two, while in the U.S. you have a higher chance of being killed by a thug or such, you will find Europe leading in murder through domestic terrorism. We already have our problems and Europe is escalating in a very violent new one. So instead of it being added to the U.S. it's going elsewhere. Enjoy?