If it wasnt a choice then it wouldnt ba a sin.
slipknot0129
This guy...
This topic is locked from further discussion.
I think it's a choice,and a set of events that took place in the person's life,to turn them away from the opposite sex.And thats how I view it now....
[QUOTE="Mike-uk"]According to modern science it's genetic and indeed stems from nature. Oh really? Does it come along when two gay people have kids together? :| Sexuality and feelings hit you over the head with a hammer. Simple as that. Emotions are not mathematical, cold calculated equations.According to the scriptures it is a choice. No one is born a homosexual.
Ravensmash
There's no scientifically accepted means of therapy. Most 'therapy' has proven ineffective and vastly harmful. And not everything is a choice. There are decisions one can make about themselves, but there are many fundamental aspects of a person that will continue to be unless constant decisions are made to suppress such aspects.EVERYTHING is a choice .... even addiction .... quiting is hard and tough but it's ur choice that you continue to be what you are .... I wonder if there is a way or a therapy to be deal with being homosexual ? serious Q.
omho88
[QUOTE="omho88"]There's no scientifically accepted means of therapy. Most 'therapy' has proven ineffective and vastly harmful. And not everything is a choice. There are decisions one can make about themselves, but there are many fundamental aspects of a person that will continue to be unless constant decisions are made to suppress such aspects. Which the person has the choice to make .... again this is difficult, I know. ..... I myself went through somthing like that, not being a homo :P of course so I know how hard things can be.EVERYTHING is a choice .... even addiction .... quiting is hard and tough but it's ur choice that you continue to be what you are .... I wonder if there is a way or a therapy to be deal with being homosexual ? serious Q.
Lockedge
[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="omho88"]There's no scientifically accepted means of therapy. Most 'therapy' has proven ineffective and vastly harmful. And not everything is a choice. There are decisions one can make about themselves, but there are many fundamental aspects of a person that will continue to be unless constant decisions are made to suppress such aspects. Which the person has the choice to make .... again this is difficult, I know. ..... I myself went through somthing like that, not being a homo :P of course so I know how hard things can be.Even assuming someone can "choose" to suppress their homosexual feelings (mind you, not acts; not acting upon their desires doesnt negate one's homosexuality), that doesnt mean people choose to be homosexuals, which is what this topic is asking.EVERYTHING is a choice .... even addiction .... quiting is hard and tough but it's ur choice that you continue to be what you are .... I wonder if there is a way or a therapy to be deal with being homosexual ? serious Q.
omho88
[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="omho88"]There's no scientifically accepted means of therapy. Most 'therapy' has proven ineffective and vastly harmful. And not everything is a choice. There are decisions one can make about themselves, but there are many fundamental aspects of a person that will continue to be unless constant decisions are made to suppress such aspects. Which the person has the choice to make .... again this is difficult, I know. ..... I myself went through somthing like that, not being a homo :P of course so I know how hard things can be. I'm just saying. My hair is brown. it will be brown until I get old enough for it to turn gray. I can dye my hair as much as I want, I have to make the active decision to dye my hair a different colour. It doesn't change that fact that I'm brunette, despite having red hair, or black hair. Much like one can be gay without taking part in sexual acts with other men. Performing such acts is a choice. Being gay however, is not a choice. I've read a hell of a lot of scientific journal articles on the matter and I've never seen anything indicating sexuality is a decision one can consciously make at any given time. It's not a black and white issue with the options of "choice" and "born this way". Life is not that simple.EVERYTHING is a choice .... even addiction .... quiting is hard and tough but it's ur choice that you continue to be what you are .... I wonder if there is a way or a therapy to be deal with being homosexual ? serious Q.
omho88
[QUOTE="CycleOfViolence"][QUOTE="AdamPA1006"]
Just because you claim to be born a certain way doenst mean society has to bend to it. Pedophiles, Sexual attraction towards animals, attraction to brother or sister.....
AdamPA1006
homosexuality =/= pedophilia, bestiality, and/or incest.
Its a sexual attraction. That people claim to be born with. I dont see the difference. I honestly dont. Then I'd question your intelligence.[QUOTE="AdamPA1006"][QUOTE="CycleOfViolence"]Its a sexual attraction. That people claim to be born with. I dont see the difference. I honestly dont. Then I'd question your intelligence. I'll assume he is trolling, because I dont want to assume he is that dumb, but in case he is lets break it down. For him, and other dumb people that may be reading.homosexuality =/= pedophilia, bestiality, and/or incest.
Ravensmash
An apple and an orange are both fruit. Are they the same in that aspect? Yes. However are they the same in most other aspects? No. Different taste, different texture, , different colour etc.
A skirt and a jacket are both clothes. Are they the same in that aspect? Yes. However are they the same in most other aspects? No. Different preferred fabric(s), different "shape"/design, different function (one os for the legs, the other is for the torso and arms), etc
Same thing with homosexuality and pedophilia. Assuming both are not choises and both refer to sexual preferences in some way, they are the same in that respect. But can they be equated just because of that? No.
I hope the stupidity has become apparent with those simple examples. You're welcome, AdamBS.
[QUOTE="AdamPA1006"][QUOTE="CycleOfViolence"]Its a sexual attraction. That people claim to be born with. I dont see the difference. I honestly dont. Then I'd question your intelligence. Well, he's right that it's sexual attraction, but...if he can't see the difference between being gay and being a pedophile or being into bestiality...that's a serious issue. Consent is key to healthy sexual interactions, but children cannot consent (too young, not mentally mature enough). Nor can non-human animals (obvious reasons here). Incest is where things get dicey, because one CAN consent, but it's a social taboo due to medical issues. Same sex couples CAN consent, and it's not harmful behaviour, so it's not in the same league as the other three IMHO.homosexuality =/= pedophilia, bestiality, and/or incest.
Ravensmash
A choice. 001011000101101Why do you say that? If it was a 'choice' then wouldn't the youth that are rejected by family/friends because of their sexuality just turn straight? Wouldn't those facing bigotry just start being aroused by vaginas?
To you all people saying it's not a choice, I guess you presume it's genetic from when two gay people have kids as a couple and pass down the genes? :|ShadowsDemon...Why are so many people presenting such ridiculous logic in this thread? What do you even mean by this?
To you all people saying it's not a choice, I guess you presume it's genetic from when two gay people have kids as a couple and pass down the genes? :|ShadowsDemonOnce again, false dichotomy.
From birth and a choice are not the only two possibilities. From birth also doesnt necessarily imply the existence of one or more specific genes related to it.
Do I really have to explain stuff like that?
Once again, false dichotomy.[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"]To you all people saying it's not a choice, I guess you presume it's genetic from when two gay people have kids as a couple and pass down the genes? :|Teenaged
From birth and a choice are not the only two possibilities. From birth also doesnt necessarily imply the existence of one or more specific genes related to it.
Do I really have to explain stuff like that?
No, you don't. I know that sexuality and feelings hit you over the head with a hammer. There's nothing genetic about it.To you all people saying it's not a choice, I guess you presume it's genetic from when two gay people have kids as a couple and pass down the genes? :|ShadowsDemonNo. That's foolish. Like I've said before, life is not that simple. This is not a thing that you can drop in one of two categories and be done with it. It's a complex issue. I don't see how anyone can say "Oh yeah, it's 100% a choice, they decide to be that way. if they wanted to not be gay they just need to try." Those people likely haven't been friends with openly gay or lesbian people before, and they're certainly just trying to make it easier for themselves to write it off, as if every gay person has made the choice, as if all gay people are the same. It's a huge lack of understanding that brings about this proposed dichotomy, and it's stupid.
[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Once again, false dichotomy.[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"]To you all people saying it's not a choice, I guess you presume it's genetic from when two gay people have kids as a couple and pass down the genes? :|ShadowsDemon
From birth and a choice are not the only two possibilities. From birth also doesnt necessarily imply the existence of one or more specific genes related to it.
Do I really have to explain stuff like that?
No, you don't. I know that sexuality and feelings hit you over the head with a hammer. There's nothing genetic about it.Really? I dont?Then why did you assume that people who say its not a choice think there is a gene?
Well, since you are a respected scientist, I guess I'll take your word f- WAIT A MINUTE.
First off: 'Trap' isn't exactly a positive term. It has pretty horrible connotations attached to it. Anywho, not likely. I mean, if you're attracted to their feminine(or masculine, in the rare case) appearance, and you're generally attracted to women, then you're not deviating from your general sexual orientation However, if you get excited about the notion that there's some specific equipment between their legs that doesn't match their appearance...that's another thing, and it's pretty complex. I wouldn't say it has anything necessarily to do with your sexual orientation...more to do with a fetish you'd have. I say this as a trans person myself. it's a pretty complicated issue. But I can say that I do not believe it's gay to fap to such individuals. I don't see the logic thereAsk yourself this: Is it gay if you fap to traps ?
Tell me that.
Sagem28
No, you don't. I know that sexuality and feelings hit you over the head with a hammer. There's nothing genetic about it.Really? I dont?[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Once again, false dichotomy.
From birth and a choice are not the only two possibilities. From birth also doesnt necessarily imply the existence of one or more specific genes related to it.
Do I really have to explain stuff like that?
Teenaged
Then why did you assume that people who say its not a choice think there is a gene?
Well, since you are a respected scientist, I guess I'll take your word f- WAIT A MINUTE.
Hmm...what else would be in the factors other than it being genetic or in genes? And besides, it's nothing to do with science. It's experience with emotions, and common sense, though I'm not sure which one you lack.[QUOTE="Sagem28"]First off: 'Trap' isn't exactly a positive term. It has pretty horrible connotations attached to it. Anywho, not likely. I mean, if you're attracted to their feminine(or masculine, in the rare case) appearance, and you're generally attracted to women, then you're not deviating from your general sexual orientation However, if you get excited about the notion that there's some specific equipment between their legs that doesn't match their appearance...that's another thing, and it's pretty complex. I wouldn't say it has anything necessarily to do with your sexual orientation...more to do with a fetish you'd have. I say this as a trans person myself. it's a pretty complicated issue. But I can say that I do not believe it's gay to fap to such individuals. I don't see the logic thereAsk yourself this: Is it gay if you fap to traps ?
Tell me that.
Lockedge
You make some good points.
I'll keep that in mind.
[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Really? I dont?[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"] No, you don't. I know that sexuality and feelings hit you over the head with a hammer. There's nothing genetic about it.ShadowsDemon
Then why did you assume that people who say its not a choice think there is a gene?
Well, since you are a respected scientist, I guess I'll take your word f- WAIT A MINUTE.
Hmm...what else would be in the factors other than it being genetic or in genes?Really?
[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Really? I dont?[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"] No, you don't. I know that sexuality and feelings hit you over the head with a hammer. There's nothing genetic about it.ShadowsDemon
Then why did you assume that people who say its not a choice think there is a gene?
Well, since you are a respected scientist, I guess I'll take your word f- WAIT A MINUTE.
Hmm...what else would be in the factors other than it being genetic or in genes? And besides, it's nothing to do with science. It's experience with emotions, and common sense, though I'm not sure which one you lack.Determining whether or not its genes or some othe factor before birth, has nothing to do with science?Is it a conscious effort to sound stupid for you or does it come naturally?
Which the person has the choice to make .... again this is difficult, I know. ..... I myself went through somthing like that, not being a homo :P of course so I know how hard things can be.Even assuming someone can "choose" to suppress their homosexual feelings (mind you, not acts; not acting upon their desires doesnt negate one's homosexuality), that doesnt mean people choose to be homosexuals, which is what this topic is asking. So based on what you are saying, scientists can determine if the one can be homo or heter when he/she isn't born yet .... right ?!!![QUOTE="omho88"][QUOTE="Lockedge"] There's no scientifically accepted means of therapy. Most 'therapy' has proven ineffective and vastly harmful. And not everything is a choice. There are decisions one can make about themselves, but there are many fundamental aspects of a person that will continue to be unless constant decisions are made to suppress such aspects.Teenaged
Hmm...what else would be in the factors other than it being genetic or in genes? And besides, it's nothing to do with science. It's experience with emotions, and common sense, though I'm not sure which one you lack.Determining whether or not its genes or some othe factor before birth, has nothing to do with science?[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Really? I dont?
Then why did you assume that people who say its not a choice think there is a gene?
Well, since you are a respected scientist, I guess I'll take your word f- WAIT A MINUTE.
Teenaged
Is it a conscious effort to sound stupid for you or does it come naturally?
Again, you're avoiding the question. Such childish behavior.[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Even assuming someone can "choose" to suppress their homosexual feelings (mind you, not acts; not acting upon their desires doesnt negate one's homosexuality), that doesnt mean people choose to be homosexuals, which is what this topic is asking. So based on what you are saying, scientists can determine if the one can be homo or heter when he/she isn't born yet .... right ?!!!No, I dont see how you concluded that from my post.[QUOTE="omho88"] Which the person has the choice to make .... again this is difficult, I know. ..... I myself went through somthing like that, not being a homo :P of course so I know how hard things can be.omho88
Like I said, just because it isnt a choice (which it isnt) doesnt mean its due to one or more specific genes. In other words, its not "either you're born this way or you choose to be this way later on in life". Thats a false dichotomy.
[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Even assuming someone can "choose" to suppress their homosexual feelings (mind you, not acts; not acting upon their desires doesnt negate one's homosexuality), that doesnt mean people choose to be homosexuals, which is what this topic is asking. So based on what you are saying, scientists can determine if the one can be homo or heter when he/she isn't born yet .... right ?!!! Stop thinking about this in such a black and white manner. No, "scientists" cannot determine if someone's gay or not at birth. That doesn't mean it's obviously a choice, as if there's only two possible reasons.[QUOTE="omho88"] Which the person has the choice to make .... again this is difficult, I know. ..... I myself went through somthing like that, not being a homo :P of course so I know how hard things can be.omho88
[QUOTE="toast_burner"][QUOTE="Overlord93"]The brain is not a physical thingOverlord93
What?
>_> you know what I meanIf I did I wouldn't have asked "What?"
So based on what you are saying, scientists can determine if the one can be homo or heter when he/she isn't born yet .... right ?!!!No, I dont see how you concluded that from my post.[QUOTE="omho88"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Even assuming someone can "choose" to suppress their homosexual feelings (mind you, not acts; not acting upon their desires doesnt negate one's homosexuality), that doesnt mean people choose to be homosexuals, which is what this topic is asking.
Teenaged
Like I said, just because it isnt a choice (which it isnt) doesnt mean its due to one or more specific genes. In other words, its not "either you're born this way or you choose to be this way later on in life". Thats a false dichotomy.
Fair enough .... btw ur sign is Extremely irritating :? .... I dun even !!!!![QUOTE="Teenaged"]Determining whether or not its genes or some othe factor before birth, has nothing to do with science?[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"] Hmm...what else would be in the factors other than it being genetic or in genes? And besides, it's nothing to do with science. It's experience with emotions, and common sense, though I'm not sure which one you lack.ShadowsDemon
Is it a conscious effort to sound stupid for you or does it come naturally?
Again, you're avoiding the question. Such childish behavior.Refuting your inane logic is childish behavior? I'm ok with that.And here is a video that mentions another possibility that is neither a gene or a choice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQSx3OCrXQ @ 2:20
Born...........opinions?
I for one think that both are true as nothing in nature is that black and white.
frannkzappa
>_> you know what I mean[QUOTE="Overlord93"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]
What?
toast_burner
If I did I wouldn't have asked "What?"
I think he means that it's not like a heart or a lung that has a singular function. The brain is incredibly complex and basically houses all that makes you...well, you. It holds your personality, your memories, etc. It's not just a physical lump pumping blood through your body, or whatnot (no offense to the heart and lung, I'm simplifying their abilities and functions, but they're not irreplaceable like a brain is).[QUOTE="toast_burner"][QUOTE="Overlord93"]>_> you know what I meanLockedge
If I did I wouldn't have asked "What?"
I think he means that it's not like a heart or a lung that has a singular function. The brain is incredibly complex and basically houses all that makes you...well, you. It holds your personality, your memories, etc. It's not just a physical lump pumping blood through your body, or whatnot (no offense to the heart and lung, I'm simplifying their abilities and functions, but they're not irreplaceable like a brain is).It still is physical though.
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