h0m0sexu@lity choice or born that way???

[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]

If I did I wouldn't have asked "What?"

toast_burner

It still is physical though.

[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]

If I did I wouldn't have asked "What?"

toast_burner

It still is physical though.

Of course it's not a choice. People just say it is so that they can justify their bigotry, denying gays marriage, or generally treat gays like second class citizens.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="Lockedge"] I think he means that it's not like a heart or a lung that has a singular function. The brain is incredibly complex and basically houses all that makes you...well, you. It holds your personality, your memories, etc. It's not just a physical lump pumping blood through your body, or whatnot (no offense to the heart and lung, I'm simplifying their abilities and functions, but they're not irreplaceable like a brain is). SolidSnake35

It still is physical though.

[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="omho88"] Being gay is also a social taboo just like incest.... and let's face it, many gays perform anal sex which is much more dangerous than vaginal .. so that's a health hazard as well ..... I am just saying ?! And some children mature can mature earlier than than their peers especially females like I heard. My point is the consent isn't really what sexual attraction is about, it's about the social acceptance .... a 80 years old guy can marry a 18 girl but that would be too much for the society to accept.omho88

So if most people are accepting of homosexua (which in the western world they are) you would be a rebel for saying it's bad?

I see it as choice but somewhat in between both.

The things ive been through growing up I feel if I never encountered them I would have my eyes on women only & not lean towards guys the way i do sometimes.

[QUOTE="omho88"][QUOTE="Lockedge"] Many hetero people perform anal. What you lack the knowledge of is that ever since the whole AIDS/HIV scare in the 80s, the LGB community (at least in the USA) has embraced the practices of safe sex. They're a much, much lower risk group for STDs and HIV/AIDS than popular belief would contend. And being gay is much less of a social taboo than having incestuous relations. Just saying. Personally, I'm not even all that opposed to incest, I don't care enough. They should be made aware of the risks that come with childbirth. Females mature quicker than males physically, but mentally...not so much. At least from the studies I've read. There's a reason that ages of consent tend to hover between 16 and 18 in the western world. Just because some kids are maturing faster physically these days, doesn't mean they're maturing mentally as well. Consent is exactly what it's about. it's about two parties being able to make and fully understand the implications of their own decisions, who are aware of the responsibilities of their actions. Children are not capable of that. Hell, I'd say some adults in their early twenties aren't either, but the government tries to go for a healthy average to ensure as many relationships as possible are on the up and up. Social acceptance is secondary. It used to be that social acceptance and social norms determined when someone could get married, rather than consent. It was biologically based...when a girl got her first period, she could have babies, thus she was able to be wed. Most societies are past that medieval thought process, because it's outdated, unnecessary, and potentially harmful.toast_burner

So if most people are accepting of homosexua (which in the western world they are) you would be a rebel for saying it's bad?

How is this even a question? Obviously people are born that way.

I dun know where you pulled this off but where I live they dun, it's abit harsh here, even harsher than what i seek. For the record, I am not against gays persay ... I am just against going gay in public .... be gay in ur home, dun show it to us, dun spread it ... I also wouldn't give the gays the right to adopt anyone .... I hope I am not offending anyone ,,,, just my opinion.omho88

And what is your reason to think any of that?

Why should gays be treated like second class citizens?

[QUOTE="Lockedge"][QUOTE="omho88"] Being gay is also a social taboo just like incest.... and let's face it, many gays perform anal sex which is much more dangerous than vaginal .. so that's a health hazard as well ..... I am just saying ?! And some children mature can mature earlier than than their peers especially females like I heard. My point is the consent isn't really what sexual attraction is about, it's about the social acceptance .... a 80 years old guy can marry a 18 girl but that would be too much for the society to accept.omho88

Many hetero people perform anal. What you lack the knowledge of is that ever since the whole AIDS/HIV scare in the 80s, the LGB community (at least in the USA) has embraced the practices of safe sex. They're a much, much lower risk group for STDs and HIV/AIDS than popular belief would contend. And being gay is much less of a social taboo than having incestuous relations. Just saying.

Personally, I'm not even all that opposed to incest, I don't care enough. They should be made aware of the risks that come with childbirth. Females mature quicker than males physically, but mentally...not so much. At least from the studies I've read. There's a reason that ages of consent tend to hover between 16 and 18 in the western world. Just because some kids are maturing faster physically these days, doesn't mean they're maturing mentally as well.

Consent is exactly what it's about. It's about two parties being able to make and fully understand the implications of their own decisions, who are aware of the responsibilities of their actions. Children are not capable of that. Hell, I'd say some adults in their early twenties aren't either, but the government tries to go for a healthy average to ensure as many relationships as possible are on the up and up. Social acceptance is secondary. It used to be that social acceptance and social norms determined when someone could get married, rather than consent. It was biologically based...when a girl got her first period, she could have babies, thus she was able to be wed. Most societies are past that medieval thought process, because it's outdated, unnecessary, and potentially harmful.

Well, apparantly you are a rebal who doesn't care so much about what society thinks and under different circumstances and for different reasons I could have encouraged that, but gays, incest and all these taboos .... restrictions should be made and kept this way from my point of view.

A lot of social norms that are still around are useless. The main questions when it gets into sexual relations are: (1) "Can both individuals consent?" , and (2) "Will it be unnecessarily harmful?"

When it comes to same sex relations, the first answer is a resounding yes, and the second answer is a resounding no.

Am I a rebel for thinking as much? Not where I live, no. Yay Canada! And the United States is trending toward a majority acceptance of same sex marriage, and there's a lot of people who don't care either way about regular gay and lesbian sexual escapades. That social norm is deteriorating quickly, for good reason.

I care what society thinks in some ways, and in some ways I don't give a crap. If everyone followed every social norm and played their personalities to stereotypical templates of masculinity and femininity, the world would be a horrific place.

I dun know where you pulled this off but where I live they dun, it's abit harsh here, even harsher than what i seek. For the record, I am not against gays persay ... I am just against going gay in public .... be gay in ur home, dun show it to us, dun spread it ... I also wouldn't give the gays the right to adopt anyone .... I hope I am not offending anyone ,,,, just my opinion.omho88

[QUOTE="omho88"]I dun know where you pulled this off but where I live they dun, it's abit harsh here, even harsher than what i seek. For the record, I am not against gays persay ... I am just against going gay in public .... be gay in ur home, dun show it to us, dun spread it ... I also wouldn't give the gays the right to adopt anyone .... I hope I am not offending anyone ,,,, just my opinion.toast_burner

And what is your reason to think any of that?

Why should gays be treated like second class citizens?

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="omho88"]I dun know where you pulled this off but where I live they dun, it's abit harsh here, even harsher than what i seek. For the record, I am not against gays persay ... I am just against going gay in public .... be gay in ur home, dun show it to us, dun spread it ... I also wouldn't give the gays the right to adopt anyone .... I hope I am not offending anyone ,,,, just my opinion.omho88

And what is your reason to think any of that?

Why should gays be treated like second class citizens?

And why should they be treated like second class citizens?

There was a time where racism was socially accepted, do you think being racist is ok?

Based on my research I've come to think it's mostly natural and some portion of it, due to environment.

Homophobia however, is a learned behavior.

[QUOTE="omho88"][QUOTE="Lockedge"]

Many hetero people perform anal. What you lack the knowledge of is that ever since the whole AIDS/HIV scare in the 80s, the LGB community (at least in the USA) has embraced the practices of safe sex. They're a much, much lower risk group for STDs and HIV/AIDS than popular belief would contend. And being gay is much less of a social taboo than having incestuous relations. Just saying.

Personally, I'm not even all that opposed to incest, I don't care enough. They should be made aware of the risks that come with childbirth. Females mature quicker than males physically, but mentally...not so much. At least from the studies I've read. There's a reason that ages of consent tend to hover between 16 and 18 in the western world. Just because some kids are maturing faster physically these days, doesn't mean they're maturing mentally as well.

Consent is exactly what it's about. It's about two parties being able to make and fully understand the implications of their own decisions, who are aware of the responsibilities of their actions. Children are not capable of that. Hell, I'd say some adults in their early twenties aren't either, but the government tries to go for a healthy average to ensure as many relationships as possible are on the up and up. Social acceptance is secondary. It used to be that social acceptance and social norms determined when someone could get married, rather than consent. It was biologically based...when a girl got her first period, she could have babies, thus she was able to be wed. Most societies are past that medieval thought process, because it's outdated, unnecessary, and potentially harmful.Lockedge

Well, apparantly you are a rebal who doesn't care so much about what society thinks and under different circumstances and for different reasons I could have encouraged that, but gays, incest and all these taboos .... restrictions should be made and kept this way from my point of view.

A lot of social norms that are still around are useless. The main questions when it gets into sexual relations are: (1) "Can both individuals consent?" , and (2) "Will it be unnecessarily harmful?"

When it comes to same sex relations, the first answer is a resounding yes, and the second answer is a resounding no.

Am I a rebel for thinking as much? Not where I live, no. Yay Canada! And the United States is trending toward a majority acceptance of same sex marriage, and there's a lot of people who don't care either way about regular gay and lesbian sexual escapades. That social norm is deteriorating quickly, for good reason.

I care what society thinks in some ways, and in some ways I don't give a crap. If everyone followed every social norm and played their personalities to stereotypical templates of masculinity and femininity, the world would be a horrific place.

[QUOTE="omho88"]I dun know where you pulled this off but where I live they dun, it's abit harsh here, even harsher than what i seek. For the record, I am not against gays persay ... I am just against going gay in public .... be gay in ur home, dun show it to us, dun spread it ... I also wouldn't give the gays the right to adopt anyone .... I hope I am not offending anyone ,,,, just my opinion.Teenaged

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="omho88"]I dun know where you pulled this off but where I live they dun, it's abit harsh here, even harsher than what i seek. For the record, I am not against gays persay ... I am just against going gay in public .... be gay in ur home, dun show it to us, dun spread it ... I also wouldn't give the gays the right to adopt anyone .... I hope I am not offending anyone ,,,, just my opinion.omho88

Lockedge already explained to you how what society thinks is not necessarily good/true/right, so...

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="AdamPA1006"]

Just because you claim to be born a certain way doenst mean society has to bend to it. Pedophiles, Sexual attraction towards animals, attraction to brother or sister.....

thegerg

It's really not that moronic. Sompe people are just attracted to things that society labels deviant.

[QUOTE="omho88"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]

And what is your reason to think any of that?

Why should gays be treated like second class citizens?

toast_burner

And why should they be treated like second class citizens?

There was a time where racism was socially accepted, do you think being racist is ok?

Born that way either you are attracted to boobies or you are not.

[QUOTE="Lockedge"]

[QUOTE="omho88"]

Well, apparantly you are a rebal who doesn't care so much about what society thinks and under different circumstances and for different reasons I could have encouraged that, but gays, incest and all these taboos .... restrictions should be made and kept this way from my point of view.omho88

A lot of social norms that are still around are useless. The main questions when it gets into sexual relations are: (1) "Can both individuals consent?" , and (2) "Will it be unnecessarily harmful?"

When it comes to same sex relations, the first answer is a resounding yes, and the second answer is a resounding no.

Am I a rebel for thinking as much? Not where I live, no. Yay Canada! And the United States is trending toward a majority acceptance of same sex marriage, and there's a lot of people who don't care either way about regular gay and lesbian sexual escapades. That social norm is deteriorating quickly, for good reason.

I care what society thinks in some ways, and in some ways I don't give a crap. If everyone followed every social norm and played their personalities to stereotypical templates of masculinity and femininity, the world would be a horrific place.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="omho88"] I am an old fasion guy .... I am open to many ideas but that gay thing, I just can't comprehence it .... nor most ppl to be honest, the idea of a man with a man ... sorry but , I really dun have any non offensive words to describe it, you get what I mean. When you dun like something, you will try to minimize it, even idadicate it if possible, and the way I see it, being gay isn't really accepted by the majority of the society so these restrictions are made, I dun seek their demise but I would be really upset if I saw a man kissing a man on the street for example. If someday the society accpets it, then so be it.omho88

And why should they be treated like second class citizens?

There was a time where racism was socially accepted, do you think being racist is ok?

so everyone is equal but gays?

[QUOTE="omho88"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Its one thing having an opinion and another thing to think your opinion should affect other people's lives for no good reason.

Teenaged

Lockedge already explained to you how what society thinks is not necessarily good/true/right, so...

[QUOTE="omho88"]

EVERYTHING is a choice .... even addiction .... quiting is hard and tough but it's ur choice that you continue to be what you are .... I wonder if there is a way or a therapy to be deal with being homosexual ? serious Q.

thegerg

You seem to be very confused. Not everything is a choice.

Do you honestly think somebody wakes up one day and goes, "yeah, I'd like to be a homosexual. I'd like to face tons of discrimination and be ostracized by my family. I'd like to be depressed and have a higher suicide rate than the average person. I'd like to be treated like a second class citizen Sounds great. Sign me up!" You dont choose what you are attracted to. The idea of a choice in this matter is an illusion.

[QUOTE="omho88"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]

And why should they be treated like second class citizens?

There was a time where racism was socially accepted, do you think being racist is ok?

toast_burner

so everyone is equal but gays?

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="omho88"] it's not my opinion, it's what society thinks ... I am not talking the earth is rounded/flat kinda thing, it's how we are created, male and female ..... again, if society accepts it, then so be it ... but I would be trying to avoid that kind of society.omho88

Lockedge already explained to you how what society thinks is not necessarily good/true/right, so...

However you did say you'd rather gay people "be gay in their own homes and that generally there should be restrictions for taboos like homosexuality.

[QUOTE="omho88"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]You ended your post with "just my opinion".

Lockedge already explained to you how what society thinks is not necessarily good/true/right, so...

Teenaged

However you did say you'd rather gay people "be gay in their own homes and that generally there should be restrictions for taboos like homosexuality.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="omho88"] Nop, and I would have rebelled against that, coz we were created equel ..... and heterosexual :D if that's relevant :P .omho88

so everyone is equal but gays?

equal except they aren't allowed to be seen outdoors or raise children.

I don't think you understand what equality means.

[QUOTE="Lockedge"]

[QUOTE="omho88"]

Well, apparantly you are a rebal who doesn't care so much about what society thinks and under different circumstances and for different reasons I could have encouraged that, but gays, incest and all these taboos .... restrictions should be made and kept this way from my point of view.omho88

A lot of social norms that are still around are useless. The main questions when it gets into sexual relations are: (1) "Can both individuals consent?" , and (2) "Will it be unnecessarily harmful?"

When it comes to same sex relations, the first answer is a resounding yes, and the second answer is a resounding no.

Am I a rebel for thinking as much? Not where I live, no. Yay Canada! And the United States is trending toward a majority acceptance of same sex marriage, and there's a lot of people who don't care either way about regular gay and lesbian sexual escapades. That social norm is deteriorating quickly, for good reason.

I care what society thinks in some ways, and in some ways I don't give a crap. If everyone followed every social norm and played their personalities to stereotypical templates of masculinity and femininity, the world would be a horrific place.

I can understand why you think that way, but it's all coming from the fact that we have differing perspectives on this. You're seeing same sex couples as a whole, as a collective mass. It's a lot different to be friends (or family) with gay or lesbian individuals, and to see how such things would affect their lives, their happiness. If you scaled it down to an individual level, it would be easier to sympathize, to see that they're like you, just with one aspect of their identity being different. It's harder to wonder what the benefits of same sex marriage on society would be if you don't have that personal connection. It's a lot easier to chalk it up as a choice when you aren't there to understand how much they can be hurt by such assertions, but the stigma surrounding their sexuality, surrounding all LGBT individuals.

I've had friends break down in my living room, weeping and angry at themselves for not being able to attracted to the opposite sex or feeling foreign in their own bodies, for being disowned by their families for a single aspect of themselves. I've visited a friend in the hospital (no serious injuries, luckily) after he was attacked by someone for being gay Friends of mine, as well as myself I suppose, have experienced great difficult getting housing because of aspects of ourselves that are 'deviant'. I've had friends who have broken under the pressure of coming out in a...more permanent way.

The opinion that people shouldn't be 'publically gay is fine enough when it remains an opinion. However, there are those in this world who sitr crap up and get people angry about LGBT people, and suddenly those opinions get infused with a bit of hatred and anger. LGBT people are afforded less humanity and are seen not as individuals, but as a collective, and sometimes as a physical representation of an agenda. That kind of twisted opinion is what puts people like my friend in the hospital, it's what urges parents to kick their own children out or abuse them.

It's not as simple as "Eh, I'm not comfortable with the gays, so I don't want society to support them. I'm fine with them, I just don't want to see that stuff in public." That kind of thinking infuses how society works, and it harms people. It tells them they're less capable of loving, they're less worthy of love, they're not capable of being decent human beings, they're exual deviants and sexual predators, etc. We can decide whether or not to listen to them, but only to an extent. We don't hold a lot of power, and we can be bullied around pretty easily.

The world would be a better place if more people treated people as individuals, and understood that love is a great universal thing that brings happiness, and that there are variations in how it can be expressed.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="omho88"] I meant I am not enforcing it, it's the society when most of it share an idea or a believe, they will act to achieve what they believe.omho88

However you did say you'd rather gay people "be gay in their own homes and that generally there should be restrictions for taboos like homosexuality.

[QUOTE="omho88"][QUOTE="toast_burner"]

so everyone is equal but gays?

toast_burner

equal except they aren't allowed to be seen outdoors or raise children.

I don't think you understand what equality means.

Born that way either you are attracted to boobies or you are not.

EasyStreet

what about man boobies.

you didnt think of that!

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="omho88"] too different things .... they are different but equal.omho88

equal except they aren't allowed to be seen outdoors or raise children.

I don't think you understand what equality means.

No better or worse than a straight couple.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="omho88"] I meant I am not enforcing it, it's the society when most of it share an idea or a believe, they will act to achieve what they believe.omho88

However you did say you'd rather gay people "be gay in their own homes and that generally there should be restrictions for taboos like homosexuality.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="omho88"] too different things .... they are different but equal.omho88

equal except they aren't allowed to be seen outdoors or raise children.

I don't think you understand what equality means.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="omho88"] too different things .... they are different but equal.omho88

equal except they aren't allowed to be seen outdoors or raise children.

I don't think you understand what equality means.

[QUOTE="toast_burner"]

[QUOTE="omho88"] too different things .... they are different but equal.omho88

equal except they aren't allowed to be seen outdoors or raise children.

I don't think you understand what equality means.

1) turned on. But ragardless of that why do you think it would be ok for a straight couple to french kiss in public?

2) A gay couple can raise a child just like any other couple. Why is it ok for single parents to raise kids but not two loving parents?

A man frensh kissing a man ..... keep holding this thought and tell me what you feel !!!! omho88

[QUOTE="omho88"][QUOTE="Lockedge"]

A lot of social norms that are still around are useless. The main questions when it gets into sexual relations are: (1) "Can both individuals consent?" , and (2) "Will it be unnecessarily harmful?"

When it comes to same sex relations, the first answer is a resounding yes, and the second answer is a resounding no.

Am I a rebel for thinking as much? Not where I live, no. Yay Canada! And the United States is trending toward a majority acceptance of same sex marriage, and there's a lot of people who don't care either way about regular gay and lesbian sexual escapades. That social norm is deteriorating quickly, for good reason.

I care what society thinks in some ways, and in some ways I don't give a crap. If everyone followed every social norm and played their personalities to stereotypical templates of masculinity and femininity, the world would be a horrific place.

Lockedge

I can understand why you think that way, but it's all coming from the fact that we have differing perspectives on this. You're seeing same sex couples as a whole, as a collective mass. It's a lot different to be friends (or family) with gay or lesbian individuals, and to see how such things would affect their lives, their happiness. If you scaled it down to an individual level, it would be easier to sympathize, to see that they're like you, just with one aspect of their identity being different. It's harder to wonder what the benefits of same sex marriage on society would be if you don't have that personal connection. It's a lot easier to chalk it up as a choice when you aren't there to understand how much they can be hurt by such assertions, but the stigma surrounding their sexuality, surrounding all LGBT individuals.

I've had friends break down in my living room, weeping and angry at themselves for not being able to attracted to the opposite sex or feeling foreign in their own bodies, for being disowned by their families for a single aspect of themselves. I've visited a friend in the hospital (no serious injuries, luckily) after he was attacked by someone for being gay Friends of mine, as well as myself I suppose, have experienced great difficult getting housing because of aspects of ourselves that are 'deviant'. I've had friends who have broken under the pressure of coming out in a...more permanent way.

The opinion that people shouldn't be 'publically gay is fine enough when it remains an opinion. However, there are those in this world who sitr crap up and get people angry about LGBT people, and suddenly those opinions get infused with a bit of hatred and anger. LGBT people are afforded less humanity and are seen not as individuals, but as a collective, and sometimes as a physical representation of an agenda. That kind of twisted opinion is what puts people like my friend in the hospital, it's what urges parents to kick their own children out or abuse them.

It's not as simple as "Eh, I'm not comfortable with the gays, so I don't want society to support them. I'm fine with them, I just don't want to see that stuff in public." That kind of thinking infuses how society works, and it harms people. It tells them they're less capable of loving, they're less worthy of love, they're not capable of being decent human beings, they're exual deviants and sexual predators, etc. We can decide whether or not to listen to them, but only to an extent. We don't hold a lot of power, and we can be bullied around pretty easily.

The world would be a better place if more people treated people as individuals, and understood that love is a great universal thing that brings happiness, and that there are variations in how it can be expressed.