High Income inequality is detrimental to a societies wellbeing.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]You know what, you don't have a clue by the looks of it. You don't have an idea. You think money grows out of trees, that people can just afford 30% of their pay go to social security (Which is a complete joke) or other usless government programs because people are needy as hell. Boy I love paying 10 thousand + plus in taxes every year only to see the government continue to give and give. Yet I have to sit here pay my way through school and pay my own bills and mortgage. Then I get to wake up, go to the store and see people driving luxury cars and walking in with designer clothing and $200 Jordans paying for their food with food stamps. Ya I see why people stop caring.elessarGObonzo

therin lies the problem... if being poor as crap on section 8 and food stamps... is better than working.

that means employers are screwing over employees royally.... if being poor as dirt is better than working the job you are oferring as an employer... you are a crappy employer.

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] People in scandinavian countries pay a huge percentage of their salaries for social systems to work well and they work well, better than in the US considering their standard of living. How do you explain that?kuraimen

it was a compliment, with a comedic tone. scandanavians have no sense of humor.

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]Nope. Everyone is a F'king saint if you ask them how much they would be willing to sacrifice to help society as a whole. I'd like to believe that maybe one day that could be true. However when you ask people to give up a significant portion of their income to "better society" most of them would say no. The fact is people will help others if it doesn't cost them anything. People like Air are not a minority, they are the majority.elessarGObonzo

[QUOTE="elessarGObonzo"]

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]Nope. Everyone is a F'king saint if you ask them how much they would be willing to sacrifice to help society as a whole. I'd like to believe that maybe one day that could be true. However when you ask people to give up a significant portion of their income to "better society" most of them would say no. The fact is people will help others if it doesn't cost them anything. People like Air are not a minority, they are the majority.Crunchy_Nuts

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="themajormayor"]

themajormayor

Read and respond to the first paragraph.

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

.... My point went completely ove ryour head.. A) No where did I say CEO's are to blame, I am pointing out that the wealth descrpency is getting worse and it is in fact HARMING our society as a whole.. Furthermore please do not tell me what you think a CEO deserves or doesn't deserve.. This has absolutely nothing to do with my point, its immaterial..

B) Furthermore no they don't our capital gains taxes being so low and the numerous loop holes, the extremely rich and businesses do not pay the actual % of taxes.. They pay far less.. We need a tax reform plain and simple.. Lower the overall taxes but get rid of loop holes and other such thing.. Its hilarious how people some how trump up Reagan as a savior when he would not be able to win the insanity tha tis the REpublican party that is now.. He raised taxes numerous time.. People need to get it through their thick skulls that our tax system is a mess..

C) Please don't come here and tell me who deserves and who doesn't deserve.. This is immaterial and it pretty much illustrates that you don't care about the problem what so ever.. This is about making a stable society in which we have a certain standard of living that every one can enjoy.. The system is endanger of collapsing in which our minimum standards are getting worse.. You seem not to understand that this "hardworking" CEO like every one else has depended off one another to make their fortunes, has depended off government regulation and protection to keep their fortunes.. This is about fixing our society.. Not trying to figure out who deserves something and who doesn't.. This is about having a minimum standard that, this supposed success of CEO's and other such things are is in fact ENDANGERING that system..

D) Finally please don't talk out of your ass, a simple google search will go over the whole GE fiasco, which large portions of it are within the US.. The US in fact gave them subsidies in the billions.. IN return GE cut jobs in the US.. In the end of the day subsidies, tax breaks etc etc.. Should not be based off baseless expectations of a hoping a compnay to do what its suppose to do.. Our government needs to make it specifically based upon RESULTS, meaning that GE could only ever get those breaks and/or subsidies if they in fact grew with in the US.

sSubZerOo

Also does GE not make technologies for green energy? Is there not tax break for companies that do so?

:| I am done here, because your have no idea what your talking about.. This was when GE posted record profits.. That is, in that very same time they had gotten greater profit then ANY other time in the companies history.. Paid 0% taxes, were given subsidies AND cut jobs in the US.. Its hilarious that you are some how defending this.. Furthermore wtf does this have anything to do with how mucht hey actually pay.. THIS IS ABOUT sustaining a system we all benefit from.. You seem not to have a clue that we ALL beneift from it.. INCLUDING the rich most of all, they became rich thanks to the government and economy created, and thanks to the worker pool this used.. This isn't about who deserves what, this is about sustaining a system in which we have a minimum standard to continue being prosperous.. How can I force this into your head that the system right now is being endangered.. And thewealth gap is increasing jesus look at ANY stat.. And the middle ****is SHRINKING.. THe backbone of America.. Look at any recent statistic.. Its mind boggling how ignoring you can be of this.. Its hilarious too because men like Reagan who were seen as these amazing people by the right wing would be OUSTED for their views if they were still alive and running today.. Reagan did not support this kind of platform, yet he some how is being turned into the mascot of the movement.. Its HILARIOUS.

[QUOTE="elessarGObonzo"]

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]Nope. Everyone is a F'king saint if you ask them how much they would be willing to sacrifice to help society as a whole. I'd like to believe that maybe one day that could be true. However when you ask people to give up a significant portion of their income to "better society" most of them would say no. The fact is people will help others if it doesn't cost them anything. People like Air are not a minority, they are the majority.Crunchy_Nuts

no capitalists system is the most messed up... before we had goverment regulations we had children working in coal mines and companies dumping toxic waste into our drinking water.

do people really think the 1800s were the height of public health and working conditions? is anyone that dumb?

I disagree. There will always be the haves, and the have nots. Any attempt to do anything about it causes more damage than it fixes.

airshocker

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] It seems a lot of people do care judging by this thread.-Sun_Tzu-

>claims to live in reality

>complains about imaginary welfare queens on food stamps driving luxury cars

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"][QUOTE="elessarGObonzo"]people would say "no" because they know the government controlling the money is a fraud and that their money won't get used the way it should. if there was some way of knowing it would actually help society and not some jerks pocket, more would be willing to give.

SauceKing

no capitalists system is the most messed up... before we had goverment regulations we had children working in coal mines and companies dumping toxic waste into our drinking water.

do people really think the 1800s were the height of public health and working conditions? is anyone that dumb?

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] You claimed to know what socialism is and now you are telling me you don't know? Is that how you define socialism? if it's chaos on the streets = socialism? good god :roll:kuraimen

Read and respond to the first paragraph.

That's why I said close to 100%. Energy production is privately owned, healthcare too (there is both public and private) and telecomunication too. The only thing not privately owned in any way is alcohol sails and gambling. Social institutions doesn't provide much at all.

The bigger question is how you address income inequality.

[QUOTE="SauceKing"]

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"] Exactly. People don't trust big government schemes to "help" society because of how corrupt it is. This discredits liberal ideas because essentially they've all just been "throw more money at it" solutions. Where as the capitalist system has shown to be the least messed up.Crunchy_Nuts

no capitalists system is the most messed up... before we had goverment regulations we had children working in coal mines and companies dumping toxic waste into our drinking water.

do people really think the 1800s were the height of public health and working conditions? is anyone that dumb?

the government has certainly improved all our lifestyles..... how can you even pretend thats not true?

so many fewer seniors are in poverty and sick and dying due to SS and medicare... our starvation rates are down due to food stamps... our illiteracy rates are down due to public education.

thanks to obamacare children born with autism or mental retardation can finally get insurance...

the free market has never done anything but exploit people, historically.... the goverment is the only reason our quality of lifestyle improves over the years, and im thankful.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] Why do the rich pay far less percentages in taxes? Because they make a boat load of money thats why. They pay more taxes in a year than me or you will probably make in the next 20 years, same goes for companies. I'm so tired of people sitting here and stating that they don't pay the same percentage, the percentage doesn't matter. Look at the figures they are paying and come back and talk to me. So you mean to tell me that GE did not pay one percentage of tax? Not even a payroll tax, you do realize that has to be the most outragious thing I have ever heard in my life. GE like any other company has cut jobs in the U.S, they aren't the only ones, also if you have losses you don't pay corporate federal income taxes which is what you are referring to. Do you not at the end of their year claim all that you can on your taxes to get a larger refund, because if you do you are a hyprocrite. GE is doing the same thing and what they are doing is not illegal. Do I think that loopholes need to be looked at? Of course, do I think that taxes should be looked as well, yes, but to sit here and say all this garbage is rediculous. Get off the GAP myth, we have now been talking about this for the past 5 years and yet the middle ****is still here.

Also does GE not make technologies for green energy? Is there not tax break for companies that do so?

xscrapzx

:| I am done here, because your have no idea what your talking about.. This was when GE posted record profits.. That is, in that very same time they had gotten greater profit then ANY other time in the companies history.. Paid 0% taxes, were given subsidies AND cut jobs in the US.. Its hilarious that you are some how defending this.. Furthermore wtf does this have anything to do with how mucht hey actually pay.. THIS IS ABOUT sustaining a system we all benefit from.. You seem not to have a clue that we ALL beneift from it.. INCLUDING the rich most of all, they became rich thanks to the government and economy created, and thanks to the worker pool this used.. This isn't about who deserves what, this is about sustaining a system in which we have a minimum standard to continue being prosperous.. How can I force this into your head that the system right now is being endangered.. And thewealth gap is increasing jesus look at ANY stat.. And the middle ****is SHRINKING.. THe backbone of America.. Look at any recent statistic.. Its mind boggling how ignoring you can be of this.. Its hilarious too because men like Reagan who were seen as these amazing people by the right wing would be OUSTED for their views if they were still alive and running today.. Reagan did not support this kind of platform, yet he some how is being turned into the mascot of the movement.. Its HILARIOUS.

My god your right REALITY is one big conspiracy theory! http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/general-electric-paid-federal-taxes-2010/story?id=13224558

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="themajormayor"]

Read and respond to the first paragraph.

themajormayor

That's why I said close to 100%. Energy production is privately owned, healthcare too (there is both public and private) and telecomunication too. The only thing not privately owned in any way is alcohol sails and gambling. Social institutions doesn't provide much at all.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="xscrapzx"] You know what, you don't have a clue by the looks of it. You don't have an idea. You think money grows out of trees, that people can just afford 30% of their pay go to social security (Which is a complete joke) or other usless government programs because people are needy as hell. Boy I love paying 10 thousand + plus in taxes every year only to see the government continue to give and give. Yet I have to sit here pay my way through school and pay my own bills and mortgage. Then I get to wake up, go to the store and see people driving luxury cars and walking in with designer clothing and $200 Jordans paying for their food with food stamps. Ya I see why people stop caring.xscrapzx

>claims to live in reality

>complains about imaginary welfare queens on food stamps driving luxury cars

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"][QUOTE="SauceKing"]

no capitalists system is the most messed up... before we had goverment regulations we had children working in coal mines and companies dumping toxic waste into our drinking water.

do people really think the 1800s were the height of public health and working conditions? is anyone that dumb?

SauceKing

the government has certainly improved all our lifestyles..... how can you even pretend thats not true?

so many fewer seniors are in poverty and sick and dying due to SS and medicare... our starvation rates are down due to food stamps... our illiteracy rates are down due to public education.

thanks to obamacare children born with autism or mental retardation can finally get insurance...

the free market has never done anything but exploit people, historically.... the goverment is the only reason our quality of lifestyle improves over the years, and im thankful.

A 100% capitalist country would have everything privately owned from infrastructure to healthcare to telecommunications to energy production, etc. There's no such thing as a 100% capitalist country. If you have social institutions that provide goods and services in exchange for taxes that comes from a socialist type of system.kuraimen

wherever money is involved in government it will eventually fail the people and feed the politicians.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] A 100% capitalist country would have everything privately owned from infrastructure to healthcare to telecommunications to energy production, etc. There's no such thing as a 100% capitalist country. If you have social institutions that provide goods and services in exchange for taxes that comes from a socialist type of system.kuraimen

That's why I said close to 100%. Energy production is privately owned, healthcare too (there is both public and private) and telecomunication too. The only thing not privately owned in any way is alcohol sails and gambling. Social institutions doesn't provide much at all.

I've never denied the government has improved our lives. But the fact is they are become more and more untrustworthy as time goes on.Crunchy_Nuts

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]A 100% capitalist country would have everything privately owned from infrastructure to healthcare to telecommunications to energy production, etc. There's no such thing as a 100% capitalist country. If you have social institutions that provide goods and services in exchange for taxes that comes from a socialist type of system.elessarGObonzo

wherever money is involved in government it will eventually fail the people and feed the politicians.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="themajormayor"]

That's why I said close to 100%. Energy production is privately owned, healthcare too (there is both public and private) and telecomunication too. The only thing not privately owned in any way is alcohol sails and gambling. Social institutions doesn't provide much at all.

themajormayor

See what?

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] According to Wikipedia Sweden has one of the biggest public sectors in the world :|kuraimen

See what?

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]I've never denied the government has improved our lives. But the fact is they are become more and more untrustworthy as time goes on.elessarGObonzo

[QUOTE="SauceKing"]

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"] You seem to be stuck in the 1800s it seems. Maybe the govt. was actually useful back then. That doesn't give them a free pass today.Crunchy_Nuts

the government has certainly improved all our lifestyles..... how can you even pretend thats not true?

so many fewer seniors are in poverty and sick and dying due to SS and medicare... our starvation rates are down due to food stamps... our illiteracy rates are down due to public education.

thanks to obamacare children born with autism or mental retardation can finally get insurance...

the free market has never done anything but exploit people, historically.... the goverment is the only reason our quality of lifestyle improves over the years, and im thankful.

true... but its a complicated scenario. The reason they become more untrustworthy is because of lobbying and corruption. A free market solution, is simply making lobbyists lawmakers, which is ultimately 100% corruption.

thats why people need to vote, tell our politicians we wont take their crap.... and utilize goverment as the powerful tool it can be. Dont try to destroy goverment, but try to take it back.

government is the last tool that the common person has to change anything.

I've never denied the government has improved our lives Anyone with half a brain would see that I was replying to another poster in which we are comparing the role of government over a span of 200 years. Pollution and obesity is a product of the free market.Crunchy_Nuts

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="themajormayor"] Where did you see that then?themajormayor

See what?

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

>claims to live in reality

>complains about imaginary welfare queens on food stamps driving luxury cars

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]I've never denied the government has improved our lives Anyone with half a brain would see that I was replying to another poster in which we are comparing the role of government over a span of 200 years. Pollution and obesity is a product of the free market.elessarGObonzo

[QUOTE="elessarGObonzo"]

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"]I've never denied the government has improved our lives Anyone with half a brain would see that I was replying to another poster in which we are comparing the role of government over a span of 200 years. Pollution and obesity is a product of the free market.Crunchy_Nuts

people will say then all companies will just leave america. not if they can't export it here. who else is going to buy all the crap at such rediculous prices except americans?

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]

See what?

kuraimen

[QUOTE="Crunchy_Nuts"][QUOTE="elessarGObonzo"]our land and our well being is tied into the role of our government. our government and this free market are tied in together. therefore it is in the role of our government to protect our land and help improve our people's well being, the land dying and the people being unhealthy is not an improvement.

elessarGObonzo

people will say then all companies will just leave america. not if they can't export it here. who else is going to buy all the crap at such rediculous prices except americans?

Dat hyperbole :roll:

themajormayor

It also says this

The Swedish health care system is mainly government-funded and decentralized, although private health care also exists. The health care system in Sweden is financed primarily through taxes levied by county councils and municipalities. Sweden regularly comes close to the top of worldwide healthcare rankings. (currently 17th)[1]

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

Dat hyperbole :roll:

kuraimen

It also says this

The Swedish health care system is mainly government-funded and decentralized, although private health care also exists. The health care system in Sweden is financed primarily through taxes levied by county councils and municipalities. Sweden regularly comes close to the top of worldwide healthcare rankings. (currently 17th)

Yeah so?? I support public healthcare and I already told you we have public healthcare.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

Dat hyperbole :roll:

themajormayor

It also says this

The Swedish health care system is mainly government-funded and decentralized, although private health care also exists. The health care system in Sweden is financed primarily through taxes levied by county councils and municipalities. Sweden regularly comes close to the top of worldwide healthcare rankings. (currently 17th)

Yeah so?? I support public healthcare and I already told you we have public healthcare.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

It also says this

The Swedish health care system is mainly government-funded and decentralized, although private health care also exists. The health care system in Sweden is financed primarily through taxes levied by county councils and municipalities. Sweden regularly comes close to the top of worldwide healthcare rankings. (currently 17th)

kuraimen

Yeah so?? I support public healthcare and I already told you we have public healthcare.

do any of you vote? i gave up on presidential election when they proved it's a scam with lil Bush.

do we even get to vote for the electoral college members?

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="themajormayor"]

Yeah so?? I support public healthcare and I already told you we have public healthcare.

themajormayor

True you didn't say that specifically but you said this "Social institutions doesn't provide much at all" which is not true if your country's public sector is so big specially in health and education.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] Yeah but you said the private healthcare sector was bigger than the public one. It appears not.kuraimen

True you didn't say that specifically but you said this "Social institutions doesn't provide much at all" which is not true if your country's public sector is so big specially in health and education.

Yes it's true with health, education(although there is private health and education too) and public transport. But that's pretty much all there is most goods and services which at least I see comes from the private sector. I've nothing against the government providing services like police, fire fighting, healthcare, transport etc etc and I don't think it contradicts capitalism in any way.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="themajormayor"] That I never said. smhthemajormayor

True you didn't say that specifically but you said this "Social institutions doesn't provide much at all" which is not true if your country's public sector is so big specially in health and education.

Yes it's true with health, education(although there is private health and education too) and public transport. But that's pretty much all there is most goods and services which at least I see comes from the private sector. I've nothing against the government providing services like police, fire fighting, healthcare, transport etc etc and I don't think it contradicts capitalism in any way.

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

True you didn't say that specifically but you said this "Social institutions doesn't provide much at all" which is not true if your country's public sector is so big specially in health and education.

kuraimen

Yes it's true with health, education(although there is private health and education too) and public transport. But that's pretty much all there is most goods and services which at least I see comes from the private sector. I've nothing against the government providing services like police, fire fighting, healthcare, transport etc etc and I don't think it contradicts capitalism in any way.

They're not socialist ideals. They're ideals shared with Socialism perhaps but doesn't stem from Socialism. For example I'm sure there was police/guards and law enforcment funded by the state long before anyone even thought about Socialism or Capitalism. And yes Socialism means chaos in the streets. Socialism is much more than this. 1% taxes doesn't make a country 1% socialist. It's when evryone is economically equal it's socialism, the means of production are publically owned and the economy is handled cooperatively.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="themajormayor"] That I never said. smhthemajormayor

True you didn't say that specifically but you said this "Social institutions doesn't provide much at all" which is not true if your country's public sector is so big specially in health and education.

I've nothing against the government providing healthcare etc etc

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

True you didn't say that specifically but you said this "Social institutions doesn't provide much at all" which is not true if your country's public sector is so big specially in health and education.

RushKing

I've nothing against the government providing healthcare etc etc

Excessive economic inequality, sure.

coolbeans90

^sure.

[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="themajormayor"]

I've nothing against the government providing healthcare etc etc

themajormayor

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

I never questioned the "numbers". I simply don't care about them.

EntropyWins

I suppose this statement says as much about you as anything in this thread. You seem to have an emotionally driven hatred of socialism that is not rooted in any kind of logic. So I suppose trying to use logic to persuade you of otherwise is useless.

When you (or someone from your family) have a severe health issue, and no money to pay for expensive healthcare, that's when one realizes that social programs are a good thing. When a couple is simultaneoulsy out of job, and struggles to find a job and still has bills to pay and kids to raise,that's when one realizes that social programs are a good thing.

I'm disgusted by people that are too lazy to work and take advantage of the system, but that doesn't mean there aren't people that really need and benefit from social programs. The latter group shouldn't be ignored just because the former exists.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="EntropyWins"]I suppose this statement says as much about you as anything in this thread. You seem to have an emotionally driven hatred of socialism that is not rooted in any kind of logic. So I suppose trying to use logic to persuade you of otherwise is useless.EntropyWins

Of course I have a hatred of people being rewarded for being mediocre. Don't you?

That's all socialism does. It doesn't improve my life since I'm not mediocre. How can you persuade me to support something that will harm me?

I think it is much better for the life of a society to structure itself in a way that sustains its existence indefinitely, which (among many things) means preventing the wealth gap from becoming too large. Mind you, this does not mean giving people money for nothing, which is what you want to make socialism out to be.

Very well put.