How do you cope in this miserable world with a possibility of no creator?

He only seems to be there for people who could live without him though. How come he is not there for the 3 billion who live on less than 2 dollars a day. [spoiler] oh yea, there is no god [/spoiler] BossPerson

[QUOTE="themajormayor"][QUOTE="MirkoS77"]I'm curious to why you think this, as many seem to agree.  As in, why is the world not beautiful without a creator?

MirkoS77

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]He only seems to be there for people who could live without him though. How come he is not there for the 3 billion who live on less than 2 dollars a day. [spoiler] oh yea, there is no god [/spoiler] GrayF0X786

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="themajormayor"] I never said it wasn'tCecilChups

[QUOTE="CecilChups"][QUOTE="MirkoS77"]Fair enough, I'm tired, my bad.  So you'd say it's equally as beautiful?chaoscougar1

All praise the creator! It is the deity in which prevents me from going to a very bad place like a heathen and from making decisions that are my own. It really is your own decision but cult leaders around the world need more vulnerable people like that so in all, keep up the good work we need people like that. If we didn't have more vulnerable people in a tight spot in need of a hand in the sky then where would all our ritualized suicides in cults go? They would probably dissappear because no religious nut would bother being persuaded by such a figure speaking of such high praise from the place above, in the sky.

Bah, this thing will always have a part in our human way, won't it? I just hope we will see less nuts and more reasonably spiritual people in the future but that might be asking too much. 

Smoke two joints.

[QUOTE="deathtarget04"]

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"]

Wouldn't it be more depressing knowing there's an all powerful creator who is willingly let this stuff happen?

chaoscougar1

Not at all.

How do we know this "all powerful creator" is willingly letting this stuff happen?

Fact is, nothing matters in life. Everyone dies, which means our consciousness is gone. And everything you cared about disappears through space and time.

Just answer the question: How do we know this "all powerful creator" is willingly letting this stuff happen?

I think most people are under the assumption that a creator has a human nature.  Like you assume it has no remorse in what goes on in our world.

A creator would be above human emotions and is something we can't even fathom.

Another "theist vs atheist" thread...

I say it doesn't matter, go on about your business. Don't concern yourself with someone else's beliefs.

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"][QUOTE="CecilChups"] No, but now that I'm aware of existence, I don't want to go back to that state. But like I said, if thats the way it has to be, then so be it.CecilChups

the burden of proof lies on the claimant, you cannot shift it in order to get out of an uncomfortable argument

[QUOTE="CecilChups"][QUOTE="chaoscougar1"] I'm afraid you don't have a choice in the matter lol Accept it Move on Work on doing everything you can to better yourself and others around you in this life Rather then spending so much time anticipating the next one...one that may not exist Seems rather foolishwis3boi

the burden of proof lies on the claimant, you cannot shift it in order to get out of an uncomfortable argument

You are only as lonely as you feel.

[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"]I believe in God so I don't have this problemShadowsDemon

I can safely say I don't care about that.

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]

[QUOTE="themajormayor"] I never said it wasn'tCecilChups

As far as an afterlife, why can't you appreciate life in the now instead of focusing on the time that you and your loved ones will no longer be here?  You are here now, enjoy your loved ones NOW.  This fact of separation is what makes living life for the present important, and is what makes your connection to others so vital.  Life is not pointless because we're all going to die and will never see anyone ever again, that's exactly WHY living for the present has a point and is what makes it something to pay attention to.  You are despairing about the very thing you have right now, while in the process more than likely ignoring it( from how it sounds anyway).  Why not appreciate it while you have it instead of bemoaning the fact that you'll lose it?

The way I see it, I'm thankful to those I've known here that have made my life beneficial.  Our time was great, and I take consolation in the fact that I at least had it.  Plus the fact that as much as I love my parents and a handful of others in my life, HELL if I would want to spend an eternity with them.  Or anyone.  Fvck no.  Again, how boring.  I for one believe in reincarnation, so it will begin anew.  In essense I'll be dead and reborn, so it won't matter anyway.

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"][QUOTE="deathtarget04"]

Not at all.

How do we know this "all powerful creator" is willingly letting this stuff happen?

Fact is, nothing matters in life. Everyone dies, which means our consciousness is gone. And everything you cared about disappears through space and time.

deathtarget04

Just answer the question: How do we know this "all powerful creator" is willingly letting this stuff happen?

I think most people are under the assumption that a creator has a human nature.  Like you assume it has no remorse in what goes on in our world.

A creator would be above human emotions and is something we can't even fathom.

lol
Talk about an unsubstantiated cop-out
I don't understand, therefore God

I for one believe in reincarnation, so it will begin anew. In essense I'll be dead and reborn, so it won't matter anyway.MirkoS77

No offense but it's irrational what you write. There is no evidence that we can return after we are dead. I believe that when you are dead your body just decomposes in the ground and that's probably the end of the story. And there is no consciousness or pain anymore. Just eternal rest, forever. At least that's how I want it to be after I'm dead.

Also if it was a proven fact that anyone of us can come back after death in a new human body, then why doesn't anyone who is alive today remember his past human incarnations?

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="CecilChups"] Sorry, but you have no proof that a creator doesn't exist. Deal with it.ShadowsDemon

the burden of proof lies on the claimant, you cannot shift it in order to get out of an uncomfortable argument

I'm not the one with a claim of a magic man in the sky and can't prove a reason for it

[QUOTE="deathtarget04"]

[QUOTE="chaoscougar1"] I don't get how this is a response to what I saidchaoscougar1

Just answer the question: How do we know this "all powerful creator" is willingly letting this stuff happen?

I think most people are under the assumption that a creator has a human nature.  Like you assume it has no remorse in what goes on in our world.

A creator would be above human emotions and is something we can't even fathom.

lol
Talk about an unsubstantiated cop-out
I don't understand, therefore God

Well I don't believe in a creator in the first place.

I'm thinking in the most rational sense though. If there is a creator, it has to be as flawless as can be. Humans and their nature are hugely flawed.

This is why machines are the inevitable future. I think that in thousands of years, we won't even talk anymore, we would just communicate through telepathy.

[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

the burden of proof lies on the claimant, you cannot shift it in order to get out of an uncomfortable argument

wis3boi

I'm not the one with a claim of a magic man in the sky and can't prove a reason for it

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]I for one believe in reincarnation, so it will begin anew. In essense I'll be dead and reborn, so it won't matter anyway.pariah3

No offense but it's irrational what you write. There is no evidence that we can return after we are dead. I believe that when you are dead your body just decomposes in the ground and that's probably the end of the story. And there is no consciousness or pain anymore. Just eternal rest, forever. At least that's how I want it to be after I'm dead.

Also if it was a proven fact that anyone of us can come back after death in a new human body, then why doesn't anyone who is alive today remember his past human incarnations?

It could. If the universe is infinite, we could in a sense reincarnate again.

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]I for one believe in reincarnation, so it will begin anew. In essense I'll be dead and reborn, so it won't matter anyway.pariah3

No offense but it's irrational what you write. There is no evidence that we can return after we are dead. I believe that when you are dead your body just decomposes in the ground and that's probably the end of the story. And there is no consciousness or pain anymore. Just eternal rest, forever. At least that's how I want it to be after I'm dead.

Also if it was a proven fact that anyone of us can come back after death in a new human body, then why doesn't anyone who is alive today remember his past human incarnations?

And there have been people alive today that remember, have looked and met up with people and shared memories......look them up.  Just as many as NDEs.  And why do you think reincarnation only occurs on Earth?  Perhaps our energy and spirit moves to other worlds?  Who the hell knows?

[QUOTE="pariah3"]

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]I for one believe in reincarnation, so it will begin anew. In essense I'll be dead and reborn, so it won't matter anyway.MirkoS77

No offense but it's irrational what you write. There is no evidence that we can return after we are dead. I believe that when you are dead your body just decomposes in the ground and that's probably the end of the story. And there is no consciousness or pain anymore. Just eternal rest, forever. At least that's how I want it to be after I'm dead.

Also if it was a proven fact that anyone of us can come back after death in a new human body, then why doesn't anyone who is alive today remember his past human incarnations?

And there have been people alive today that remember, have looked and met up with people and shared memories......look them up.  Just as many as NDEs.  And why do you think reincarnation only occurs on Earth?  Perhaps our energy and spirit moves to other worlds?  Who the hell knows?

Its not just as irrational. If we both observe a random man standing on the sidewalk, and you say "i think he can levitate objects with his mind", and i say "i dont think he can". Neither of us have proof either way of his telekenetic abilities. But the more rational assumption is to believe in that which has evidence, and not believe in that which doesnt.

Since we have no evidence the man can levitate objects with his mind, the rational assumption is that he probably cant.

EDIT: though of course your belief is no better off than those believing heaven and hell and such. I was referring to the rotting in the ground, which is an opinion based on observable facts.

 Its not just as irrational. If we both observe a random man standing on the sidewalk, and you say "i think he can levitate objects with his mind", and i say "i dont think he can". Neither of us have proof either way of his telekenetic abilities. But the more rational assumption is to believe in that which has evidence, and not believe in that which doesnt.

 Since we have no evidence the man can levitate objects with his mind, the rational assumption is that he probably cant.

 EDIT: though of course your belief is no better off than those believing heaven and hell and such. I was referring to the rotting in the ground, which is an opinion based on observable facts.

BeardMaster

And there have been people alive today that remember, have looked and met up with people and shared memories......look them up. Just as many as NDEs. And why do you think reincarnation only occurs on Earth? Perhaps our energy and spirit moves to other worlds? Who the hell knows?MirkoS77

If what you are saying is true then this would be all over the news and everyone would have known about it already. But the fact is that there is no evidence that anything happens after death or that there is any continuation of any kind. People believe all sorts of crazy things with no evidence only to end up disappointed in the end.

It also seems like you are just making stuff up because spirit and energy are not the same thing at all and anyone who studied a bit of physics know this.

[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]And there have been people alive today that remember, have looked and met up with people and shared memories......look them up. Just as many as NDEs. And why do you think reincarnation only occurs on Earth? Perhaps our energy and spirit moves to other worlds? Who the hell knows?pariah3

If what you saying is true then this would be all over the news and everyone would already know about it. But the fact is that there is no evidence that anything happens after death or that there is any continuation of any kind. It seems like you are just making this stuff up because spirit and energy are not the same thing at all and anyone who studied a bit of physics know this.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"] Thanks, I'll remind you of that next time you're the one making a claim or statement then.ShadowsDemon

I'm not the one with a claim of a magic man in the sky and can't prove a reason for it

Another dishonest assertion of a position I do not hold.  You're on a roll tonight

[QUOTE="BeardMaster"]

 Its not just as irrational. If we both observe a random man standing on the sidewalk, and you say "i think he can levitate objects with his mind", and i say "i dont think he can". Neither of us have proof either way of his telekenetic abilities. But the more rational assumption is to believe in that which has evidence, and not believe in that which doesnt.

 Since we have no evidence the man can levitate objects with his mind, the rational assumption is that he probably cant.

 EDIT: though of course your belief is no better off than those believing heaven and hell and such. I was referring to the rotting in the ground, which is an opinion based on observable facts.

MirkoS77

You sound like me 5 years ago. I used to consider myself agnostic, in that i dont believe in religion but i believe there had to be something beyond human understanding, because human understanding is so limited. I think i saw a video or read something online that changed my mind. Essentially the message was, why does the lack of knowledge prove the existene of something?

Historically as people didnt understand things like lightning, they attributed it to the gods, or some higher being. Eventually we learn to explain it, but there is that human desire to fill the gaps of knowledge with mysticism, i fell into the same trappings. Currently we can explain and understand alot of things, that 500 years ago were explained by mysticism and belief.

We naturally want to fill in those knowledge gaps because not knowing is scary. But if you live your life believing in things that can be explained and can be proven as most normal people do (nobody thinks lightning is angry gods anymore) you eventually have to ask yourself, are you going to make the same historical misteppings and try to fill the gaps in knowledge with mysticism and belief? or will you follow the same line of logic you have your entire life and believe in that which has evidence, and let the gaps in human understanding remain unknown?

I believe im going to rot in the ground, and have evidence to support that. I dont believe there is anything else, because there is no rational reason to believe so. Once you start supplementing knowledge with belief, its and endless road... why reincarnation? why not heaven and hell? why not becoming part of the borg mind that controls the universe?

if there is no evidence that i have telekinesis, then i probably dont have telekinesis, and if there is no evidence of life after death, then there is probably no life after death.

 You sound like me 5 years ago. I used to consider myself agnostic, in that i dont believe in religion but i believe there had to be something beyond human understanding, because human understanding is so limited. I think i saw a video or read something online that changed my mind. Essentially the message was, why does the lack of knowledge prove the existene of something?

 Historically as people didnt understand things like lightning, they attributed it to the gods, or some higher being. Eventually we learn to explain it, but there is that human desire to fill the gaps of knowledge with mysticism, i fell into the same trappings. Currently we can explain and understand alot of things, that 500 years ago were explained by mysticism and belief.

 We naturally want to fill in those knowledge gaps because not knowing is scary. But if you live your life believing in things that can be explained and can be proven as most normal people do (nobody thinks lightning is angry gods anymore) you eventually have to ask yourself, are you going to make the same historical misteppings and try to fill the gaps in knowledge with mysticism and belief? or will you follow the same line of logic you have your entire life and believe in that which has evidence, and let the gaps in human understanding remain unknown?

I believe im going to rot in the ground, and have evidence to support that. I dont believe there is anything else, because there is no rational reason to believe so. Once you start supplementing knowledge with belief, its and endless road... why reincarnation? why not heaven and hell? why not becoming part of the borg mind that controls the universe?

if there is no evidence that i have telekinesis, then i probably dont have telekinesis, and if there is no evidence of life after death, then there is probably no life after death.

BeardMaster

Reincarnation makes perfect sense to me.  I am not a theist, nor a deist.  I suppose if you were to label me anything, it would be a pantheist but even then I take exception on a few points here and there.  It would be far too much for me to bother explaining why I don't believe in, say, Christianity or the Borg than I do reincarnation, but it mostly whittles down to me seeing no evidence for an intervening God in our world.  We just are, nobody gives a sh!t.  This is apparent everywhere.  But reincarnation does not address this.  It does not try to attempt to answer questions or give reasons in this life, only what occurs after death.  So I can hold various beliefs and live my life by evidence and still believe in reincarnation. 

Though I've never understood the argument, "well we have no evidence there's life after death...."  Well, yea......that's because it's death.  What kind of evidence would conclusively prove it?  

[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

I'm not the one with a claim of a magic man in the sky and can't prove a reason for it

wis3boi

Another dishonest assertion of a position I do not hold.  You're on a roll tonight

It's all relative.   Do what you can to improve your current situation because obviously it's hard not to be cynical about life and existence when your life sucks...

What are your principles, TC?

You sound like me 5 years ago. I used to consider myself agnostic, in that i dont believe in religion but i believe there had to be something beyond human understanding, because human understanding is so limited. I think i saw a video or read something online that changed my mind. Essentially the message was, why does the lack of knowledge prove the existene of something?

 

Historically as people didnt understand things like lightning, they attributed it to the gods, or some higher being. Eventually we learn to explain it, but there is that human desire to fill the gaps of knowledge with mysticism, i fell into the same trappings. Currently we can explain and understand alot of things, that 500 years ago were explained by mysticism and belief.

 

We naturally want to fill in those knowledge gaps because not knowing is scary. But if you live your life believing in things that can be explained and can be proven as most normal people do (nobody thinks lightning is angry gods anymore) you eventually have to ask yourself, are you going to make the same historical misteppings and try to fill the gaps in knowledge with mysticism and belief? or will you follow the same line of logic you have your entire life and believe in that which has evidence, and let the gaps in human understanding remain unknown?

I believe im going to rot in the ground, and have evidence to support that. I dont believe there is anything else, because there is no rational reason to believe so. Once you start supplementing knowledge with belief, its and endless road... why reincarnation? why not heaven and hell? why not becoming part of the borg mind that controls the universe?

if there is no evidence that i have telekinesis, then i probably dont have telekinesis, and if there is no evidence of life after death, then there is probably no life after death.

BeardMaster

Not everything can be explained by mathematics or in mathematical terms. Meaning and interpretation are more important than "knowing", which is a mere effort of the memory. Would you know what are the uses of the Fourier transform if I merely told you its definition?

I believe the concepts of life after death and heaven and hell should be interpreted as "what will remain of a person after he dies" and "what was going on in that person's mind when he died". The former is, in my opinion, nailed perfectly by Eichiiro Oda in the dying speech of the crazy doctor on the snow island in One Piece, "a man dies when he is forgotten". As for heaven and hell, I think it's best explained by thinking about an old man recounting what he has done in his life. If he at one point in life was jealous of someone, poisoned him, hidden the body or framed someone else, then he will most likely know what he did was wrong. If he did the same not out of petty emotions but because he wanted to protect his brothers or his family (in broad terms, not just blood-bound relatives) then he will most likely know he did the right thing.

I also believe those who don't even try to understand what goes on in someone else's mind and don't even try to consider there might be another way of interpreting things like most of the people who call themselves "atheists" do, are the truly irrational ones.

The better question is "How do people cope with the idea of a God existing in the popular form it is believed to exist today when(in the mind of believers) you're constantly walking a thin line between a desolate existence to one that is gleeful and everlasting over simple actions that describe your very person?"

I care for myself.  That's it.

You sound like me 5 years ago. I used to consider myself agnostic, in that i dont believe in religion but i believe there had to be something beyond human understanding, because human understanding is so limited. I think i saw a video or read something online that changed my mind. Essentially the message was, why does the lack of knowledge prove the existene of something?

 

Historically as people didnt understand things like lightning, they attributed it to the gods, or some higher being. Eventually we learn to explain it, but there is that human desire to fill the gaps of knowledge with mysticism, i fell into the same trappings. Currently we can explain and understand alot of things, that 500 years ago were explained by mysticism and belief.

 

We naturally want to fill in those knowledge gaps because not knowing is scary. But if you live your life believing in things that can be explained and can be proven as most normal people do (nobody thinks lightning is angry gods anymore) you eventually have to ask yourself, are you going to make the same historical misteppings and try to fill the gaps in knowledge with mysticism and belief? or will you follow the same line of logic you have your entire life and believe in that which has evidence, and let the gaps in human understanding remain unknown?

I believe im going to rot in the ground, and have evidence to support that. I dont believe there is anything else, because there is no rational reason to believe so. Once you start supplementing knowledge with belief, its and endless road... why reincarnation? why not heaven and hell? why not becoming part of the borg mind that controls the universe?

if there is no evidence that i have telekinesis, then i probably dont have telekinesis, and if there is no evidence of life after death, then there is probably no life after death.

BeardMaster

The higher power of creation is here.  The evidence is yourself.  Look at your hands.  Did you create them?  Your eyes, heart, mind, and your natural ability to fly?  We can create stuff, like a building.  But none of us can create life.  We are allowed the ability to, but this in not the same as breathing life into our creations that allow them to live their own lives. 

If I created myself I would definatly be flying around like Superman.  But I can't, because I'm not the most powerful being that has ever existed.  Damn!  I have to live with this fact.  This exsistence of a higher power, instead of calling it higher power, it might as well be called God.

God created the internet to help me cope with this fact.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"] Oh, so we're playing this game are we now? And you can justify alien sentient life...how? There's a reason why you can study theology and not xenoanthropology. ShadowsDemon

Another dishonest assertion of a position I do not hold.  You're on a roll tonight

We know life can arise from non life. God has zero evidence going for it.  You aren't doing your position any favors by acting like this

[QUOTE="ShadowsDemon"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

Another dishonest assertion of a position I do not hold. You're on a roll tonight

wis3boi

We know life can arise from non life. God has zero evidence going for it. You aren't doing your position any favors by acting like this

"Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those of understanding." 3:190

If there is no creator and their is no after life and we just die, then this is your 1 chance of living then live it and stop dwelling on it. and we actually live in one of the greatest times there has been, i think people forget how brutal and blood thirsty the human race were before our time, we actually live in a relatively civilised world. it's never been this humane. 

live your life to the full because if you don't then what a waste, forget about if a creator doesn't exist or not and enjoy what you have, seriously life is what you make it, taking the positives from everything no matter how down and out you are, because there hasn't been another time this good for ever.