How often do you seriously pray?

[QUOTE="cyberdarkkid"]

[QUOTE="Zaeryn"]I don't because I'm not religious and even if I were, I would find it pointless. Zaeryn

Trust me if you were religous you wouldn't find it pointless.

But I don't really see the point in it. I think you can believe in God just fine without needing to pray to him.

You can believe in God and not pray... but the point is to have a relation with Him (through prayer)...~ de arimasu

[QUOTE="123625"]

To pay for sin, and it really isn't considered suffering since you will only be away from God, no eternal burning.

astiop

If thats the only penalty then as an atheist, what will be the difference between now and the afterlife then? I don't feel any close to god right now :p

Hell, i have no idea.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="123625"]Maybe if people would study the back ground and history behind it, it might convince more people >_>quiglythegreat

God says any man who commits sin deserves an eternity in hell. Impossible to attain, right? No actually. Jesus took it for us. Since God was perfect in love and justice, He figured out a way that justice could be served and that those He loves could get an oppurtunity to be with Him.

A) do you actually believe that?

B) why would the existence of a being 'perfect in love and justive' be used to justified all humanity's eternal and infinite suffering? doesn't that seem a little counter-intuitive?

1. Yes I do. God is perfect so if someone with sin that they did not ask for forgiveness for came to His presence, the person would eternally die. AKA Hell

2. All humanity? Only those who don't belive in Jesus. Why not believe in Jesus anyway?

Than how did we come to be? That's what I mean.

battlefront23

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="123625"]Maybe if people would study the back ground and history behind it, it might convince more people >_>SolidSnake35

So why would there be a heaven? It wouldn't mean as much if there was no hell.

1. Yes I do. God is perfect so if someone with sin that they did not ask for forgiveness for came to His presence, the person would eternally die. AKA Hell

2. All humanity? Only those who don't belive in Jesus. Why not believe in Jesus anyway?

battlefront23

but look, you explicitly said "we all deserve hell". I don't 'believe' in Jesus because I have found perspectives and philosophies more spiritually satisfying to me.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Than how did we come to be? That's what I mean.

quiglythegreat

But wouldn't that be breaking two scientific theories that have never been broken?

So why would there be a heaven?

battlefront23

You're contradicting your own beliefs.

[QUOTE="astiop"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]

[quote="battlefront23"]Atheism requires faith; in fact it requires even more than the belief in the Christian God.battlefront23

I don't understand this line of thinking. If a religion requires less faith than atheism, than that religion is seriously flawed.

Why would it be flawed?

Because atheism requires 0 faith. It's like saying you have faith because you don't believe in the holy cave bear, or the flying spaggety monster, or in Thor.

Than how did we come to be? That's what I mean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_life

Thats how I think we came to be. And that doesn't require any faith.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

1. Yes I do. God is perfect so if someone with sin that they did not ask for forgiveness for came to His presence, the person would eternally die. AKA Hell

2. All humanity? Only those who don't belive in Jesus. Why not believe in Jesus anyway?

quiglythegreat

but look, you explicitly said "we all deserve hell". I don't 'believe' in Jesus because I have found perspectives and philosophies more spiritually satisfying to me.

I don't know what you're getting at...

We all do deserve hell and I specifically explained why.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

So why would there be a heaven?

harashawn

You're contradicting your own beliefs.

How?

God says any man who commits sin deserves an eternity in hell.

battlefront23

An assertion which is one of the biggest reasons I'm not a Christian, really. I quite simply can't believe that God would create living beings with love with the full knowledge that a majority of them would go to eternal suffering for sins that had temporary effects.

Really, the whole "Jesus died for your sins" thing seems terribly artificial, to me, as if God made these rules arbitrarily and then decided that he would subvert his own rules but only if people jump through a new arbitrary set of hoops by requiring that they believe in something that humans could well be perfectly justified not believing in. It all seems so convoluted and unnecessary, given that God is a supernatural being who can supposedly do anything.

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Than how did we come to be? That's what I mean.

battlefront23

But wouldn't that be breaking two scientific theories that have never been broken?

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="astiop"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]

[quote="battlefront23"]Atheism requires faith; in fact it requires even more than the belief in the Christian God.astiop

I don't understand this line of thinking. If a religion requires less faith than atheism, than that religion is seriously flawed.

Why would it be flawed?

Because atheism requires 0 faith. It's like saying you have faith because you don't believe in the holy cave bear, or the flying spaggety monster, or in Thor.

Than how did we come to be? That's what I mean.

Thats how I think we came to be. And that doesn't require any faith.

I didn't clarify that enough. How did the universe come to be?

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

Than how did we come to be? That's what I mean.

quiglythegreat

But wouldn't that be breaking two scientific theories that have never been broken?

The reason why I believe God created everything is because of that rule in themrodynamics that states matter can neither be created or destroyed. Also the rule that states (I think it's similar to or the same as the rule you posted) that objects in a certain motion will stay in that motion unless acted on by an opposite force. I think a supernatural being breaking those rules makes more sense than whatever the heck the other argument is. :P It's compliacted and it doesn't even make sense.

So why would there be a heaven? It wouldn't mean as much if there was no hell.battlefront23

I didn't clarify that enough. How did the universe come to be?

battlefront23

The big bang. If you mean before that then I have no idea. Were does faith come in?

The reason why I believe God created everything is because of that rule in themrodynamics that states matter can neither be created or destroyed. Also the rule that states (I think it's similar to or the same as the rule you posted) that objects in a certain motion will stay in that motion unless acted on by an opposite force. I think a supernatural being breaking those rules makes more sense than whatever the heck the other argument is. :P It's compliacted and it doesn't even make sense.

battlefront23

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I didn't clarify that enough. How did the universe come to be?

astiop

The big bang. If you mean before that then I have no idea. Were does faith come in?

The big bang theory is flawed.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]So why would there be a heaven? It wouldn't mean as much if there was no hell.SolidSnake35

Heaven is good because I understand what was sacrificed for me to get there. (And because of the reason the Bible states; being with God for an eternity.) I did not deserve it; for all men fall short of the glory of God. That quote is from Romans 1 I believe.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

The reason why I believe God created everything is because of that rule in themrodynamics that states matter can neither be created or destroyed. Also the rule that states (I think it's similar to or the same as the rule you posted) that objects in a certain motion will stay in that motion unless acted on by an opposite force. I think a supernatural being breaking those rules makes more sense than whatever the heck the other argument is. :P It's compliacted and it doesn't even make sense.

quiglythegreat

No that last phrase is referring to the view of no God. I didn't clarify enough and I'm pretty tired. Sorry. :P

[QUOTE="astiop"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I didn't clarify that enough. How did the universe come to be?

harashawn

The big bang. If you mean before that then I have no idea. Were does faith come in?

The big bang theory is flawed.

I am totally convinced now, and will immediately become a Christian.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]So why would there be a heaven? It wouldn't mean as much if there was no hell.battlefront23

Heaven is good because I understand what was sacrificed for me to get there. (And because of the reason the Bible states; being with God for an eternity.) I did not deserve it; for all men fall short of the glory of God. That quote is from Romans 1 I believe.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]So why would there be a heaven? It wouldn't mean as much if there was no hell.quiglythegreat

Heaven is good because I understand what was sacrificed for me to get there. (And because of the reason the Bible states; being with God for an eternity.) I did not deserve it; for all men fall short of the glory of God. That quote is from Romans 1 I believe.

I don't understand what you're getting at.

[QUOTE="astiop"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I didn't clarify that enough. How did the universe come to be?

harashawn

The big bang. If you mean before that then I have no idea. Were does faith come in?

The big bang theory is flawed.

If you look back before the Big Bang, coming from the Multiverse, at things such as the String Theory or even the 'M' or 'Bubble' theories, it makes a lot more sense.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]So why would there be a heaven? It wouldn't mean as much if there was no hell.battlefront23

Heaven is good because I understand what was sacrificed for me to get there. (And because of the reason the Bible states; being with God for an eternity.) I did not deserve it; for all men fall short of the glory of God. That quote is from Romans 1 I believe.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I didn't clarify that enough. How did the universe come to be?

astiop

The big bang. If you mean before that then I have no idea. Were does faith come in?

What initiated the Big Bang?

[QUOTE="harashawn"][QUOTE="astiop"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I didn't clarify that enough. How did the universe come to be?

astiop

The big bang. If you mean before that then I have no idea. Were does faith come in?

The big bang theory is flawed.

I am totally convinced now, and will immediately become a Christian.

:lol: That's hilarious!:|

I'll tell you why.

We'll start by you answering simple a question:

How did the universe begin?

I don't understand what you're getting at.

battlefront23

[QUOTE="astiop"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I didn't clarify that enough. How did the universe come to be?

harashawn

The big bang. If you mean before that then I have no idea. Were does faith come in?

The big bang theory is flawed.

And the christian system isnt????

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]So why would there be a heaven? It wouldn't mean as much if there was no hell.SolidSnake35

Heaven is good because I understand what was sacrificed for me to get there. (And because of the reason the Bible states; being with God for an eternity.) I did not deserve it; for all men fall short of the glory of God. That quote is from Romans 1 I believe.

I hope you don't think I don't want others to suffer. :P The reason I'm posting here is I don't want others to suffer.

No you shouldn't get what I get. I shouldn't get what I get. No one should get what I get.

1. What about Buddah? He lived almost 500 years before Jesus and made similar claims. Like what? And was he as impactful as Jesus

2. Rabbits do not chew their cud Lev (11-16.) (I have more if you want them) More. Not everything is menat literally btw. Also due to micro-evoltion, rabbits behavior traits may have changed since Leviticus was written.

3. The author describes a "circle" not a sphere. You used that vagueness to interpret the passage as being scientifically accurate. In other parts of Job, the earth is interpreted as being flat with a dome or vault over it and resting on pillars. I'm sure you would interpret that as a metaphor though. What's the reference?

4.Consider the suicide bomber or the other examples of martyrdom in countless other religions and sects. Doespeople'swillingness to die for their religions make them all true? You should also consider Galileoand, to a lesser extent, Copernicus. They were both persecuted for making claims about the nature of the solar system. They both chose to recant. Does the fact that Galileo chose to repent from his "evil deeds" change the nature of the solar system? Ah but that's different; they are dying for a cause. The disciples died for a person. (Who had causes but I hope you understand what I mean.)

5. It doesn't matter. If I made a claim about any being loving me, I would first have to prove that being existed. That Jesus existed on the earth?

6. I'm not using a list format to be sarcastic or snarky in any way. (I've noticed people do that on these boards.) I'm only listing everything to keep track of the points you made. It's cool. I tend to get sacastic and snarky comments from just about every Atheist on this site. :|

BTW I'm gonna go do my laundry so if I don't post in a while, you will know why.

God Bless. :)

battlefront23

1. I meant he preached tolerance towards his enemies. And it could be argued his impact was as great a Jesus, yes.

2. I am not familiar with any evidence that shows that kind of trait change in rabbits.

3. ISA 40:22 and I Sam 2-8. I thought they were in Job.

4. It is not any different. They are both dying for a cause, which is to spread their religion.

5. That Jesus is a supernatural being that created the world.

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]So why would there be a heaven? It wouldn't mean as much if there was no hell.battlefront23

Heaven is good because I understand what was sacrificed for me to get there. (And because of the reason the Bible states; being with God for an eternity.) I did not deserve it; for all men fall short of the glory of God. That quote is from Romans 1 I believe.

What is the material differentiation between someone who believes in Jesus and someone who doesn't? That's the thing that I have never gotten. I've seen good Christians and bad Christians, and I've seen good non-Christians and bad non-Christians. But, supposedly, the ones in the first two groups are in the clear and will receive everlasting bliss while the ones in the last two groups will be tortured for all eternity. For that to be true, one would think that there is some huge, irreconcilable divide between the fundamentals of the people on one side and that of the people on the other side... but I'm not exactly seeing much; all I'm seeing is people making a different conclusion about the universe, with no real-world effect involved.

Like I said, it just seems like pointless, arbitrary hoops that God has decided we need to jump through for no real reason whatsoever.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I don't understand what you're getting at.

quiglythegreat

Alright... I don't know what intrinsically means.

[QUOTE="harashawn"][QUOTE="astiop"][QUOTE="battlefront23"]

I didn't clarify that enough. How did the universe come to be?

alexmurray

The big bang. If you mean before that then I have no idea. Were does faith come in?

The big bang theory is flawed.

And the christian system isnt????

Yup.

I'm a fluctuating deist/agnostic. But I do pray every now and then, I also tend to damn god every now and then, and not just a "god damnit" that does not mean anything. I'm talking about serious cursing from a sense of betrayal. It's just a terrible, terrible feeling.

Just saying, most that say its a waste of time are probably spending most of their time doing wasteful things and arent aware of it or just wouldnt admit.

I did when I was little and slightly brainwashed. Don't believe in God, do agree with the core uncorrupted principles of Christianity.hongkingkong

Yes, christianity is so corrupted.

Love your neighbour? What kind of BS are they trying to teach us??

[QUOTE="battlefront23"]

1. What about Buddah? He lived almost 500 years before Jesus and made similar claims. Like what? And was he as impactful as Jesus

2. Rabbits do not chew their cud Lev (11-16.) (I have more if you want them) More. Not everything is menat literally btw. Also due to micro-evoltion, rabbits behavior traits may have changed since Leviticus was written.

3. The author describes a "circle" not a sphere. You used that vagueness to interpret the passage as being scientifically accurate. In other parts of Job, the earth is interpreted as being flat with a dome or vault over it and resting on pillars. I'm sure you would interpret that as a metaphor though. What's the reference?

4.Consider the suicide bomber or the other examples of martyrdom in countless other religions and sects. Doespeople'swillingness to die for their religions make them all true? You should also consider Galileoand, to a lesser extent, Copernicus. They were both persecuted for making claims about the nature of the solar system. They both chose to recant. Does the fact that Galileo chose to repent from his "evil deeds" change the nature of the solar system? Ah but that's different; they are dying for a cause. The disciples died for a person. (Who had causes but I hope you understand what I mean.)

5. It doesn't matter. If I made a claim about any being loving me, I would first have to prove that being existed. That Jesus existed on the earth?

6. I'm not using a list format to be sarcastic or snarky in any way. (I've noticed people do that on these boards.) I'm only listing everything to keep track of the points you made. It's cool. I tend to get sacastic and snarky comments from just about every Atheist on this site. :|

BTW I'm gonna go do my laundry so if I don't post in a while, you will know why.

God Bless. :)

Frattracide

1. I meant he preached tolerance towards his enemies. And it could be argued his impact was as great a Jesus, yes.

Now there's no way his impact was as great as Jesus'. Either way, people in Europe wouldn't have known about BUddha's beliefs yet. (I think, right?)

2. I am not familiar with any evidence that shows that kind of trait change in rabbits. Even if there isn't any, I don't think that passage is literal.

3. ISA 40:22 and I Sam 2-8. I thought they were in Job. My Bible says circle. (Isaiah) Circles are very similar anyway. But that didn't say the earth was flat. :| And the passage in Samuel is not meant to be literal and I don't know why anyone thought God meant that literally.

4. It is not any different. They are both dying for a cause, which is to spread their religion. Yes and no. They did die for their religion partially because of ther cause, but mainly because of Jesus's death for them.

5. That Jesus is a supernatural being that created the world. He rose from the dead.Only soemthing supernatural could have risen from the dead.

[QUOTE="hongkingkong"]I did when I was little and slightly brainwashed. Don't believe in God, do agree with the core uncorrupted principles of Christianity.harashawn

Yes, christianity is so corrupted.

Love your neighbour? What kind of BS are they trying to teach us??

How's that for sarcasm? ;)

[QUOTE="hongkingkong"]I did when I was little and slightly brainwashed. Don't believe in God, do agree with the core uncorrupted principles of Christianity.harashawn

Yes, christianity is so corrupted.

Love your neighbour? What kind of BS are they trying to teach us??

I like that bit, just not the bit where some dude appears from nowhere and creates gnats :| Tell me there is a God when these freggers are biting yo while you sleep.