How's attacking religions is different from

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gamingqueen

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#1 gamingqueen
Member since 2004 • 31076 Posts

Attacking a group of people with different race, ethnicity, culture and sexual preference? If it's ok for me to bash people because of their religion, shouldn't it be okay for me to bash people who aren't "white" or "blue" or because the media says it's ok to descriminate against religions and sets standards for what it's right and wrong? There's a double standard issue going on here.

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Dark-Sithious

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#2 Dark-Sithious
Member since 2008 • 3914 Posts

Well, religion is a choice.

But yeah, I don't think it's cool to attack someone based on their belief

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solid_mario

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#3 solid_mario
Member since 2005 • 3144 Posts
Religions are a choice, race/ethnicity etc are not. Edit: Beaten to it :(
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MetalGear_Ninty

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#4 MetalGear_Ninty
Member since 2008 • 6337 Posts
Religion is a philosophical position that has every right to be criticised on intellectual grounds in a forum.
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Listen_420

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#5 Listen_420
Member since 2009 • 314 Posts

What they said. It's a choice, a perspective, that can eventually be altered.

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harashawn

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#6 harashawn
Member since 2008 • 27620 Posts
Because a lot of people think their beliefs make them better than everyone else.
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BumFluff122

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#7 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

The vast majority of Gamespot religion topics are made by religious people trying to prove their point that their religion is true. Do you expect everyone to just acknowledge that their religion is true or do you want it to be tested and scrutinized? If I was religious I woudl want it to be scrutinized. Religion and athiesm are beliefs not based on hatred while racism is a belief that is based on hatred.

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gamingqueen

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#8 gamingqueen
Member since 2004 • 31076 Posts

So it's ok for me to start attacking your country in the name of critism and shower you with stereotypes right?

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luke1889

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#9 luke1889
Member since 2004 • 14617 Posts
Religions are a choice, race/ethnicity etc are not.solid_mario
Your sig makes the post hilarious. :lol:
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Engrish_Major

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#10 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts
I'm really not sure if religion is a choice. As much as I can't change the color of my skin, I couldn't just wake up tomorrow and say "I'm going to believe in Jesus as my savior from now on".
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Kamekazi_69

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#11 Kamekazi_69
Member since 2006 • 4704 Posts

Formal Debate shouldn't be offensive for someone, but one insulting anothers belief should not be tolerated at all.

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Famiking

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#12 Famiking
Member since 2009 • 4879 Posts
[QUOTE="harashawn"] Because a lot of people think their beliefs make them better than everyone else.

The same can be said about race/ethnicity/sexuality though, but it seems religion-attacking is expected to be tolerated.
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chessmaster1989

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#13 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts
Well, there's the key distinction that religion is a choice...
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Theokhoth

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#14 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

Well, religion is a choice.

Dark-Sithious

In recent years it's been shown that religion might not be as much of a choice as we thought.

DUN DUN DUN!:o

Religion has become the new homosexuality, it seems.

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solid_mario

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#15 solid_mario
Member since 2005 • 3144 Posts

So it's ok for me to start attacking your country in the name of critism and shower you with stereotypes right?

gamingqueen
You are missing the point. You aren't given a choice about where you are born and therefore you cannot be critiqued for something that you had no control over. Religion is a choice, a perspective on life that many people disagree over. It is there to be debated over and therefore people will attack it.
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BumFluff122

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#16 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

I'm really not sure if religion is a choice. As much as I can't change the color of my skin, I couldn't just wake up tomorrow and say "I'm going to believe in Jesus as my savior from now on".Engrish_Major
You can do anything you want with choice uncluding choosing to believe in a certain religion. Do people choose to be dark skinned or light skinned?

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gamingqueen

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#17 gamingqueen
Member since 2004 • 31076 Posts

Formal Debate shouldn't be offensive for someone, but one insulting anothers belief should not be tolerated at all.

Kamekazi_69

That's my problem. I'm not seeing "formal debates" here. All I see is people putting others down because they wanna feel better about themselves and others who aren't doing their jobs. The point of arguing is lost.

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mindstorm

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#18 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

Well, religion is a choice.

But yeah, I don't think it's cool to attack someone based on their belief

Dark-Sithious
Technically I did not "choose" my religion. I believe it's true and do not choose my beliefs simply because I want them to be true.
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Engrish_Major

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#19 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]I'm really not sure if religion is a choice. As much as I can't change the color of my skin, I couldn't just wake up tomorrow and say "I'm going to believe in Jesus as my savior from now on".BumFluff122

You can do anything you want with choice uncluding choosing to believe in a certain religion. Do people choose to be dark skinned or light skinned?

Can you choose to change your beliefs? I don't think that I can, at least not by choice alone. There would have to be outside factors involved.
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gamingqueen

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#20 gamingqueen
Member since 2004 • 31076 Posts

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

So it's ok for me to start attacking your country in the name of critism and shower you with stereotypes right?

solid_mario

You are missing the point. You aren't given a choice about where you are born and therefore you cannot be critiqued for something that you had no control over. Religion is a choice, a perspective on life that many people disagree over. It is there to be debated over and therefore people will attack it.

That's new! In many countries, you don't earn citizenship by being born. In most countries actually. How about that?

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solid_mario

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#21 solid_mario
Member since 2005 • 3144 Posts
I'm really not sure if religion is a choice. As much as I can't change the color of my skin, I couldn't just wake up tomorrow and say "I'm going to believe in Jesus as my savior from now on".Engrish_Major
Imagine if you had a near death experience tomorrow or something so huge that it altered your view on life. It could lead to you believing in Jesus. It probably wouldn't for you personally but religion is definitely a choice.
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Theokhoth

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#22 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]I'm really not sure if religion is a choice. As much as I can't change the color of my skin, I couldn't just wake up tomorrow and say "I'm going to believe in Jesus as my savior from now on".Engrish_Major

You can do anything you want with choice uncluding choosing to believe in a certain religion. Do people choose to be dark skinned or light skinned?

Can you choose to change your beliefs? I don't think that I can, at least not by choice alone. There would have to be outside factors involved.

And, of course, you can change your skin color--also with outside factors.

As well as your gender.

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horgen

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#23 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127735 Posts
I had the impression that it wasn't right. You can criticise it, but bashing... I didn't think that was accepted.
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Theokhoth

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#24 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]I'm really not sure if religion is a choice. As much as I can't change the color of my skin, I couldn't just wake up tomorrow and say "I'm going to believe in Jesus as my savior from now on".solid_mario
Imagine if you had a near death experience tomorrow or something so huge that it altered your view on life. It could lead to you believing in Jesus. It probably wouldn't for you personally but religion is definitely a choice.

But could he just wake up tomorrow and choose to follow Christianity without an NDE or any other outside influence? If not, then is he really choosing?

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solid_mario

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#25 solid_mario
Member since 2005 • 3144 Posts

[QUOTE="solid_mario"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

So it's ok for me to start attacking your country in the name of critism and shower you with stereotypes right?

gamingqueen

You are missing the point. You aren't given a choice about where you are born and therefore you cannot be critiqued for something that you had no control over. Religion is a choice, a perspective on life that many people disagree over. It is there to be debated over and therefore people will attack it.

That's new! In manhy countries, you don't earn citizenship by being born. In most countries actually. How about that?

Who said that citizenship makes you a member of that country? If you move to a country aged one and live there your entire life but never gain citizenship does that mean you aren't a person from that country? In the US, you earn citizenship by being born there. I can testify to that considering both my parents are English and yet I have an American passport.
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Engrish_Major

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#26 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts
[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]I'm really not sure if religion is a choice. As much as I can't change the color of my skin, I couldn't just wake up tomorrow and say "I'm going to believe in Jesus as my savior from now on".solid_mario
Imagine if you had a near death experience tomorrow or something so huge that it altered your view on life. It could lead to you believing in Jesus. It probably wouldn't for you personally but religion is definitely a choice.

That's why I mentioned outside factors before. That's still not choice, it is an initial external catalyst that prompts an internal change.
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gamingqueen

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#27 gamingqueen
Member since 2004 • 31076 Posts

I had the impression that it wasn't right. You can criticise it, but bashing... I didn't think that was accepted. horgen123

But in Gamespot boards, it's ok to bash religions.

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MetalGear_Ninty

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#28 MetalGear_Ninty
Member since 2008 • 6337 Posts
[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Dark-Sithious"]

Well, religion is a choice.

In recent years it's been shown that religion might not be as much of a choice as we thought.

DUN DUN DUN!:o

Religion has become the new homosexuality, it seems.

I'm not sure whether you're joking or not, but if that is right, then wouldn't that have great implications for the validity of some religions?
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viewtiful26

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#29 viewtiful26
Member since 2005 • 2842 Posts

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]I'm really not sure if religion is a choice. As much as I can't change the color of my skin, I couldn't just wake up tomorrow and say "I'm going to believe in Jesus as my savior from now on".BumFluff122

You can do anything you want with choice uncluding choosing to believe in a certain religion. Do people choose to be dark skinned or light skinned?

Michael Jackson says hi. :P He proves that not only can you choose your skin color, but you can also choose your gender! lol jk Anyway, when it comes to religion, in many cases people are practically born into a faith, and thus they stick with it because it is all they know. The same thing can be said about politics. If your parents have certain opinions of a political topic, odds are you may share some of those opinions to some degree. Of course, there are exceptions to all these, but you get the idea.
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BumFluff122

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#30 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]I'm really not sure if religion is a choice. As much as I can't change the color of my skin, I couldn't just wake up tomorrow and say "I'm going to believe in Jesus as my savior from now on".Engrish_Major

You can do anything you want with choice uncluding choosing to believe in a certain religion. Do people choose to be dark skinned or light skinned?

Can you choose to change your beliefs? I don't think that I can, at least not by choice alone. There would have to be outside factors involved.

And you choose based on those outside factors. It is still a choice. Religion isn't inbred into your DNA. If religion wasn't a choice the church wouldn't be so wound up about keeping their followers. It is human nature to question the unknown. One way to explain it is through religion. Religion is for people who want answers whether they are true or false. Religious people who don't see themselves beign able to change beliefs believe so because they have been indoctrinated from youth. (At least the vast majority have).

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Engrish_Major

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#31 Engrish_Major
Member since 2007 • 17373 Posts
I'm not sure whether you're joking or not, but if that is right, then wouldn't that have great implications for the validity of some religions?MetalGear_Ninty
I'm sure he's not joking. Our brains are different. Some of us are 'hard wired' to be more religious than others, or so some scientists think.
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Theokhoth

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#32 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Dark-Sithious"]

Well, religion is a choice.

MetalGear_Ninty

In recent years it's been shown that religion might not be as much of a choice as we thought.

DUN DUN DUN!:o

Religion has become the new homosexuality, it seems.

I'm not sure whether you're joking or not, but if that is right, then wouldn't that have great implications for the validity of some religions?

No. Ever hear of Cognitive Science of Religion?

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Locke562

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#33 Locke562
Member since 2004 • 7673 Posts

In recent years it's been shown that religion might not be as much of a choice as we thought.

DUN DUN DUN!:o

Religion has become the new homosexuality, it seems.

Theokhoth

Technically I did not "choose" my religion. I believe it's true and do not choose my beliefs simply because I want them to be true.mindstorm
What is it then? Indoctrination?

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harashawn

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#34 harashawn
Member since 2008 • 27620 Posts

But in Gamespot boards, it's ok to bash religions.

gamingqueen

It's human nature. People can't stand the thought of being wrong; so, they criticize other beliefs to make themselves seem right.

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Hungry_bunny

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#35 Hungry_bunny
Member since 2006 • 14293 Posts
There's nothing wrong with criticizing a religion (if done respectfully), no religion should be immune to any kind of scrutiny, just like no country should be immune to criticism if they're doing some thing wrong. There IS something wrong with attacking the people who believe in them though. Sometimes it might seem hard to attack the belief without attacking the believer but there is a difference so I don't think it's exactly the same as the question of race, sex and ethnicity.
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#36 MoonMarvel
Member since 2008 • 8249 Posts
Religion is a philosophical position that has every right to be criticised on intellectual grounds in a forum.MetalGear_Ninty
So its ok to discrimminate on them then? So it's ok to deny them equal rights because you don't agree with them? Please tell me you don't agree with that line of thought.
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Theokhoth

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#37 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

What is it then? Indoctrination?

Locke562

No, because there's still a level of choice in indoctrination. It's all in yo' head.

People interested in this idea might wanna read this book (and others in the series).

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MetalGear_Ninty

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#38 MetalGear_Ninty
Member since 2008 • 6337 Posts

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

In recent years it's been shown that religion might not be as much of a choice as we thought.

DUN DUN DUN!:o

Religion has become the new homosexuality, it seems.

Theokhoth

I'm not sure whether you're joking or not, but if that is right, then wouldn't that have great implications for the validity of some religions?

No. Ever hear of Cognitive Science of Religion?

OK.

Isn't it unfair though that ifsome are more predisposed to accept religion than others, and thus have a much greater chance of being granted eternal salvation?

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BumFluff122

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#39 BumFluff122
Member since 2004 • 14853 Posts

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]I'm really not sure if religion is a choice. As much as I can't change the color of my skin, I couldn't just wake up tomorrow and say "I'm going to believe in Jesus as my savior from now on".viewtiful26

You can do anything you want with choice uncluding choosing to believe in a certain religion. Do people choose to be dark skinned or light skinned?

Michael Jackson says hi. :P He proves that not only can you choose your skin color, but you can also choose your gender! lol jk Anyway, when it comes to religion, in many cases people are practically born into a faith, and thus they stick with it because it is all they know. The same thing can be said about politics. If your parents have certain opinions of a political topic, odds are you may share some of those opinions to some degree. Of course, there are exceptions to all these, but you get the idea.

Michael Jackson was born black was he not? I know you're just joking with this but for some reason I thought somneone would bring it up when I mentioned that. MJs parents are african american just as he is and will always be regardless of how he changes his skin colour through whastever operations or vitamins he's taking. He didn't pop out of his mother at birth and say "Hmm I think I'll be black this lifetime. Whiteness just didn't cut it for me in my last life."

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solid_mario

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#40 solid_mario
Member since 2005 • 3144 Posts

[QUOTE="solid_mario"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]I'm really not sure if religion is a choice. As much as I can't change the color of my skin, I couldn't just wake up tomorrow and say "I'm going to believe in Jesus as my savior from now on".Theokhoth

Imagine if you had a near death experience tomorrow or something so huge that it altered your view on life. It could lead to you believing in Jesus. It probably wouldn't for you personally but religion is definitely a choice.

But could he just wake up tomorrow and choose to follow Christianity without an NDE or any other outside influence? If not, then is he really choosing?

What if you take it the other way around? He could wake up tomorrow and decide not to believe in God or Jesus etc. Would this not be the same thing? This is a lot more plausible of an example. Also it can take longer than one incident/night/day. I think there will always be outside influences and if you say that outside influence is not freewill then I think you would have to say that we have no freewill at all.
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Locke562

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#41 Locke562
Member since 2004 • 7673 Posts

[QUOTE="Locke562"]

What is it then? Indoctrination?

Theokhoth

No, because there's still a level of choice in indoctrination. It's all in yo' head.

People interested in this idea might wanna read this book (and others in the series).

Thanks.
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#42 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
Religious belief is a protected class in US law; can you give an example of what kind of attack you mean?
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Theokhoth

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#43 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] I'm not sure whether you're joking or not, but if that is right, then wouldn't that have great implications for the validity of some religions?MetalGear_Ninty

No. Ever hear of Cognitive Science of Religion?

OK.

Isn't it unfair though that ifsome are more predisposed to accept religion than others, and thus have a much greater chance of being granted eternal salvation?

Not really, because it's not a matter of predisposition. Read the book I just linked to. It's awesome.

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zakkro

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#44 zakkro
Member since 2004 • 48823 Posts
I think people have the right to bash any group they want...
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MetalGear_Ninty

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#45 MetalGear_Ninty
Member since 2008 • 6337 Posts
[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]Religion is a philosophical position that has every right to be criticised on intellectual grounds in a forum.MoonMarvel
So its ok to discrimminate on them then? So it's ok to deny them equal rights because you don't agree with them? Please tell me you don't agree with that line of thought.

Well I did say 'criticised on intellectual grounds', which would pretty much rules out discrimination and bigotry.
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gamingqueen

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#46 gamingqueen
Member since 2004 • 31076 Posts

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]But in Gamespot boards, it's ok to bash religions.

harashawn

It's human nature. People can't stand the thought of being wrong; so, they criticize other beliefs to make themselves seem right.

Critisim does not equal useless and personal bashing.Critisim should be done in a respectful manner.

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Theokhoth

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#47 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="solid_mario"] Imagine if you had a near death experience tomorrow or something so huge that it altered your view on life. It could lead to you believing in Jesus. It probably wouldn't for you personally but religion is definitely a choice.solid_mario

But could he just wake up tomorrow and choose to follow Christianity without an NDE or any other outside influence? If not, then is he really choosing?

What if you take it the other way around? He could wake up tomorrow and decide not to believe in God or Jesus etc. Would this not be the same thing? This is a lot more plausible of an example. Also it can take longer than one incident/night/day. I think there will always be outside influences and if you say that outside influence is not freewill then I think you would have to say that we have no freewill at all.

Well, I sure as hell know I couldn't wake up tomorrow and not believe in God.

It's arguable that we really don't have free will at all. Genes + Environment + mental processes beyond our control = everything we say, do and believe being influenced.

It's also arguable that in our day and age of technology, just about everything is a choice. After alll, you can choose to change your skin color, your gender, your hair color, your eye color, and they're out trying to see how we can change our sexuality and even the genes of our children.

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horgen

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#48 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127735 Posts

[QUOTE="horgen123"]I had the impression that it wasn't right. You can criticise it, but bashing... I didn't think that was accepted. gamingqueen

But in Gamespot boards, it's ok to bash religions.

This place differs from reality and you know it well... And are you sure you don't mix up with someone stating their own opinion about religion? ( I don't read religious threads so much so I barely knows what goes on in them)
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MetalGear_Ninty

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#49 MetalGear_Ninty
Member since 2008 • 6337 Posts
[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

No. Ever hear of Cognitive Science of Religion?

OK.

Isn't it unfair though that ifsome are more predisposed to accept religion than others, and thus have a much greater chance of being granted eternal salvation?

Not really, because it's not a matter of predisposition. Read the book I just linked to. It's awesome.

I don't have time to read it, so you'l just have to paraphrase. :wink: How is this not a matter of predisposition if it is claimed that some people don't have a choice in religion?
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MoonMarvel

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#50 MoonMarvel
Member since 2008 • 8249 Posts
[QUOTE="MoonMarvel"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]Religion is a philosophical position that has every right to be criticised on intellectual grounds in a forum.MetalGear_Ninty
So its ok to discrimminate on them then? So it's ok to deny them equal rights because you don't agree with them? Please tell me you don't agree with that line of thought.

Well I did say 'criticised on intellectual grounds', which would pretty much rules out discrimination and bigotry.

Believe me, some use that phrase to justify being a bigot. Wouldn't be the first time somebody tried to mask discrimmination as intellectual criticism. BS I know, but it happens.