Hugo Chavez is Dead

Let's not go crazy now

Aljosa23

:lol:

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]He normally acts all childish like that... and then pretends other people don't like discussion :roll: Piece of work this guy...airshocker

No, I'm very friendly with people who aren't tools.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

  He's mad.

airshocker

And here we go. :lol:

You wonder why I don't give a sh*t about what you think.

Airshocker is great. Him telling off people on OT is always funny

for the record, I like Subzero.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="dave123321"]Airshocker has also told me he doesn't care about what I think. Air, who do you respect here anyway? Pirate? Teenaged?Aljosa23

Yet your continuing to respond.. I just find it funny of all things to condemn this guy for, you pick something pretty trivial compared to some of the actions that others have done that the US actually supports or has supported in the past.. sSubZerOo

Because you continue to respond back to me...? If I had better things to do at this very moment I assure you, I wouldn't be responding back to you.

[QUOTE="dave123321"]Airshocker has also told me he doesn't care about what I think. Air, who do you respect here anyway? Pirate? Teenaged?airshocker

You're sometimes okay. But I can never tell when you're being serious, or when you're trolling.

Ok, since you don't want discussion then don't try to talk to me and I won't talk to you. It's better that way.kuraimen

OK, Scrappy.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] Mekingkong0124

I think you can assume that I hold similar views as droid and sun. You can assume that I like to sedave123321

Yes, but you also agree with me sometimes. So were you just trolling me those times, Dave? I FVCKING HATE YOU!

Airshocker is great. Him telling off people on OT is always funny

for the record, I like Subzero.

Aljosa23

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]Let's not go crazy now

Aljosa23

Ya, but you have no evidence to back you up on this

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"] This is coming from OT's newest conspiracy theorist kingkong0124

Ya, but you have no evidence to back you up on this

[QUOTE="dave123321"]I think you can assume that I hold similar views as droid and sun. You can assume that I like to seairshocker

Yes, but you also agree with me sometimes. So were you just trolling me those times, Dave? I FVCKING HATE YOU!

Haha lighten up dude. I don't actually think there's a conspiracy involved I just think the idea that he died 100% without some shady business involved is silly until proven so.

Aljosa23

I'm gonna' make a special tin foil hat just for you. Maybe I'll even get Ron Paul to sign it for you.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]Haha lighten up dude. I don't actually think there's a conspiracy involved I just think the idea that he died 100% without some shady business involved is silly until proven so.

Aljosa23

Ya, but you have no evidence to back you up on this

saying he died of shady business is a positive claim which means you gotta back that *** up

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

Airshocker is great. Him telling off people on OT is always funny

for the record, I like Subzero.

dave123321

  Dislike is pretty strong word for really any one in this, we all have disagreements politically.. That doesn't mean we can't play a game together or other such thing.. Well at least it wouldn't bother me, every one has different view points and it becomes silly when this stuff gets to the point of animosity towards some one else.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

Haha lighten up dude. I don't actually think there's a conspiracy involved I just think the idea that he died 100% without some shady business involved is silly until proven so.

airshocker

I'm gonna' make a special tin foil hat just for you. Maybe I'll even get Ron Paul to sign it for you.

gg 420 get mad scrub #SWAG #YOLO

Maybe you will have better luck trying to get a mafia game going, air. I made a thread but it didn't really get much of a response so I abandoned it, dave123321

I've been too busy playing PlanetSide 2.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

Ya, but you have no evidence to back you up on this

kingkong0124

saying he died of shady business is a positive claim which means you gotta back that *** up

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

Haha lighten up dude. I don't actually think there's a conspiracy involved I just think the idea that he died 100% without some shady business involved is silly until proven so.

Aljosa23

I'm gonna' make a special tin foil hat just for you. Maybe I'll even get Ron Paul to sign it for you.

gg 420 get mad scrub #SWAG #YOLO

  You should then sell the tin foil hat signed by Ron Paul on ebay.. Win win.

I'm gonna buy you a special gun that holds 8 bullets...oh wait those are banned in NY

gg 420 get mad scrub #SWAG #YOLO

Aljosa23

Well I can always just take the magazine out and sell that special gun.

B1TCH.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

I'm gonna buy you a special gun that holds 8 bullets...oh wait those are banned in NY

gg 420 get mad scrub #SWAG #YOLO

airshocker

Well I can always just take the magazine out and sell that special gun.

B1TCH.

  Hey flamethrowers are still legal.

  Hey flamethrowers are still legal.

sSubZerOo

Since when have those been legal in New York? If they are, I wants one.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

  Hey flamethrowers are still legal.

airshocker

Since when have those been legal in New York? If they are, I wants one.

  They had a whole cracked article on ridiculous weapons that were not illegal.. Flamethrower and minigun were on the list.

  They had a whole cracked article on ridiculous weapons that were not illegal.. Flamethrower and minigun were on the list.

sSubZerOo

Sweet mother of god they're legal...

Going to Home Depot, guys.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

  Hey flamethrowers are still legal.

sSubZerOo

Since when have those been legal in New York? If they are, I wants one.

  They had a whole cracked article on ridiculous weapons that were not illegal.. Flamethrower and minigun were on the list.

[QUOTE="dave123321"][QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

Airshocker is great. Him telling off people on OT is always funny

for the record, I like Subzero.

sSubZerOo

  Dislike is pretty strong word for really any one in this, we all have disagreements politically.. That doesn't mean we can't play a game together or other such thing.. Well at least it wouldn't bother me, every one has different view points and it becomes silly when this stuff gets to the point of animosity towards some one else.

A more synthetic but nevertheless good article.

Hugo Chávez kept his promise to the people of Venezuela

The late Venezuelan president's Bolívarian revolution has been crucial to a wider Latin American philosophy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/05/hugo-chavez-people-venezuelan-president

The facts speak for themselves: the percentage of households in poverty fell from 55% in 1995 to 26.4% in 2009. When Chávez was sworn into office unemployment was 15%, in June 2009 it was 7.8%. Compare that to current unemployment figures in Europe. In that period Chávez won 56% of the vote in 1998, 60% in 2000, survived a coup d'état in 2002, got over 7m votes in 2006 and secured 54.4% of the vote last October. He was a rare thing, almost incomprehensible to those in the US and Europe who continue to see the world through the Manichean prism of the cold war: an avowed Marxist who was also an avowed democrat. To those who think the expression of the masses should have limited or no place in the serious business of politics all the talking and goings on in Chávez's meetings were anathema, proof that he was both fake and a populist. But to the people who tuned in and participated en masse, it was politics and true democracy not only for the sophisticated, the propertied or the lettered.

What say you, OT?

SOURCE

Maniacc1

Huge Chavez is Dead. That's what I say.

I put in as much effort as you put in.

I worked with someone from Venezuela once. He was polite, well-spoken, and absolutely f***ing hated Chavez. He was in this country under political asylum; while he was here, his mother died, and he was forced to miss her funeral because he opposed Chavez.

Here's hoping his death allows my former co-worker to be reunited with the rest of his family.

Is this good or bad for Venezuela?Capitan_Kid

Not gonna miss him. He destroyed Venezuela democratic institutions and economy. (and an infinity of idiotic things) And this is coming from someone that lives in South America, and has followed his government by more than 10 years.Giancar

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Adrianstalker"]

Venezuela would be in such a better place if that man had lost that 98 election. Now a city like Caracas ended 2012 with a murder rate of 200 per 100.000 habitants. Largest in the world. A gigantic social war is going on. To have an idea, only in Caracas there were more murders than the whole United States last year.  

Their murder rate was around 147/100.000 just the other day. Seriously, are they looking to see where does the rate stop? One day, their poor will notice hopefully ( after all, they are killing themselves)  

Adrianstalker

I would say that most of these "good stats" would be at a higher level without Chavez. Practically all Latin Americas had their social diferences improved, given that the last decades was one of the most prosperous in terms of economy in the region. Brazil has rised 30 millions into middle class, Chile is reaching first world HDI status, Peru is experiencieng steady and balanced economy growth, among other examples. None of those came with the price of an african war zone murder rate. 

Are you serious? There are slums in Rio that are completely controlled by warlords, only the Army goes there.

According to this link, Caracas is the 6th most dangerous city in the world, with cities from Honduras, Mexico and Brazil above it. In the top 10 you have 5 from Mexico, 2 from Honduras, 2 from Brazil and 1 from Venezuela.

Yeah, because fixing elections and nationalizing an oil company(by military force) makes him such a great guy!

airshocker

Interesting you bring this up. I'm sure you're aware of the United Fruit Company? The US company that had an agricultural monopoly in Guatemala and because the government was doing things that threatened that monopoly, the UFC lobbied 2 US presidents and managed to get authorization to essentially hire the services of the CIA to overthrow the Guatemalan government and replace it with a more US friendly puppet government. This sparked a civil war that would kill hundreds of thousands.

And people wonder why Latin America is suspicious of the US.

[QUOTE="Adrianstalker"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] Before Chavez Venezuela got 1% of the income from oil. The other 99% was taken by foreign companies. Chavez managed to make 2 million people literate where before children were not allowed in school without papers. He brought doctors to poor communities that were forgotten. He reduced poverty from a staggering 60% which made Venezuela the poorest country in the region down to the 20%s. And you dare say Venezuela would be better. Sure crime increased but it wasn't low before either and no big change happens all at once. Chavez have dignity back to poor Venezuelans and fixed the country in large part. The work is not over but much more people are better now thanks to him and that's why they overwhelmingly supported him probably more than any other president in the american continent.nunovlopes

I would say that most of these "good stats" would be at a higher level without Chavez. Practically all Latin Americas had their social diferences improved, given that the last decades was one of the most prosperous in terms of economy in the region. Brazil has rised 30 millions into middle class, Chile is reaching first world HDI status, Peru is experiencieng steady and balanced economy growth, among other examples. None of those came with the price of an african war zone murder rate. 

Are you serious? There are slums in Rio that are completely controlled by warlords, only the Army goes there.

According to this link, Caracas is the 6th most dangerous city in the world, with cities from Honduras, Mexico and Brazil above it. In the top 10 you have 5 from Mexico, 2 from Honduras, 2 from Brazil and 1 from Venezuela.

I remember reading that study last year. Its a compilation of regional murder rates to which they set up this rank, but they used older data and don't tell the whole story

Brazilian crime rates have been on a steady improvement over the last 15 years, while Venezuelan rate its on the exact opposite side.

For example: São Paulo had a murder rate of 33 in 1999. Now it is below 10. Rio had its rate at 53 in 1999 now its 21.

Now look the Venezuelan case

In 1998 they had 4.450 murders nationwide. In 2011 there were 19.336 and 2012 it was 21.692 murders. Caracas just reached the 200 rate mark last year

According to the Venezuelan Violence Observatory ( who presented these data I posted above on their annual report )

"Killings have become a way of executing property crimes, a mechanism to resolve personal conflicts and a way to apply private justice."

Venezuela violence rise its a case on its own. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/9769897/Venezuela-murder-rate-soars.html

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

[QUOTE="Adrianstalker"]

 

I would say that most of these "good stats" would be at a higher level without Chavez. Practically all Latin Americas had their social diferences improved, given that the last decades was one of the most prosperous in terms of economy in the region. Brazil has rised 30 millions into middle class, Chile is reaching first world HDI status, Peru is experiencieng steady and balanced economy growth, among other examples. None of those came with the price of an african war zone murder rate. 

Adrianstalker

Are you serious? There are slums in Rio that are completely controlled by warlords, only the Army goes there.

According to this link, Caracas is the 6th most dangerous city in the world, with cities from Honduras, Mexico and Brazil above it. In the top 10 you have 5 from Mexico, 2 from Honduras, 2 from Brazil and 1 from Venezuela.

I remember reading that study last year. Its a compilation of regional murder rates to which they set up this rank, but they used older data and don't tell the whole story

Brazilian crime rates have being on steady improvement over the last 15 years, while Venezuelan rate its on the exact opposite side.

For example: São Paulo had a murder rate of 33 in 1999. Now it is below 10. Rio had its rate at 53 in 1999 now its 21.

Now look the Venezuelan case

In 1998 they had 4.450 murders nationwide. In 2011 there were 19.336 and 2012 it was 21.692 murders. Caracas just reached the 200 rate mark last year

According to the Venezuelan Violence Observatory ( who presented these data I posted above on their annual report )

"Killings have become a way of executing property crimes, a mechanism to resolve personal conflicts and a way to apply private justice."

Venezuela violence rise its a case on its own. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/9769897/Venezuela-murder-rate-soars.html

Good point, trends are important.

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

[QUOTE="Adrianstalker"]

 

I would say that most of these "good stats" would be at a higher level without Chavez. Practically all Latin Americas had their social diferences improved, given that the last decades was one of the most prosperous in terms of economy in the region. Brazil has rised 30 millions into middle class, Chile is reaching first world HDI status, Peru is experiencieng steady and balanced economy growth, among other examples. None of those came with the price of an african war zone murder rate. 

Adrianstalker

Are you serious? There are slums in Rio that are completely controlled by warlords, only the Army goes there.

According to this link, Caracas is the 6th most dangerous city in the world, with cities from Honduras, Mexico and Brazil above it. In the top 10 you have 5 from Mexico, 2 from Honduras, 2 from Brazil and 1 from Venezuela.

I remember reading that study last year. Its a compilation of regional murder rates to which they set up this rank, but they used older data and don't tell the whole story

Brazilian crime rates have being on steady improvement over the last 15 years, while Venezuelan rate its on the exact opposite side.

For example: São Paulo had a murder rate of 33 in 1999. Now it is below 10. Rio had its rate at 53 in 1999 now its 21.

Now look the Venezuelan case

In 1998 they had 4.450 murders nationwide. In 2011 there were 19.336 and 2012 it was 21.692 murders. Caracas just reached the 200 rate mark last year

According to the Venezuelan Violence Observatory ( who presented these data I posted above on their annual report )

"Killings have become a way of executing property crimes, a mechanism to resolve personal conflicts and a way to apply private justice."

Venezuela violence rise its a case on its own. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/venezuela/9769897/Venezuela-murder-rate-soars.html

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

Yeah, because fixing elections and nationalizing an oil company(by military force) makes him such a great guy!

nunovlopes

Interesting you bring this up. I'm sure you're aware of the United Fruit Company? The US company that had an agricultural monopoly in Guatemala and because the government was doing things that threatened that monopoly, the UFC lobbied 2 US presidents and managed to get authorization to essentially hire the services of the CIA to overthrow the Guatemalan government and replace it with a more US friendly puppet government. This sparked a civil war that would kill hundreds of thousands.

And people wonder why Latin America is suspicious of the US.

Also I'm sure it's just coincidence that John Foster Dulles, the U.S. Secretary of State, and his brother Allen Dulles, the director of the CIA, both owned significant stock in the United Fruit Company.

[QUOTE="Giancar"]Not gonna miss him. He destroyed Venezuela democratic institutions and economy. (and an infinity of idiotic things) And this is coming from someone that lives in South America, and has followed his government by more than 10 years.thebest31406

Pretty unstable macro-economic factors (declining oil production, double digit inflation, large spending deficits) for such an oil rich country. Actually, just study real cases of the "resource curse" and you'll see what Venezuela's future might hold.

Venezuela doesn't matter. I don't care.lo_Pine

Translation: "I am ignorant."

They have some of the world's largest oil reserves. Yeah, Venezuela matters.

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"]Venezuela doesn't matter. I don't care.worlock77

Translation: "I am ignorant."

They have some of the world's largest oil reserves. Yeah, Venezuela matters.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="lo_Pine"]Venezuela doesn't matter. I don't care.lo_Pine

Translation: "I am ignorant."

They have some of the world's largest oil reserves. Yeah, Venezuela matters.

Stricly speaking the US imports more oil from Canada than any other country. Followed by Mexico. That isn't the point however. Whenever you hold one of the largest reserves of oil in the world that makes you significant.