Hugo Chavez is Dead

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

So what countries, in your view, have governments that are not full of communist scum?

worlock77

Oh they don't have to be completely free of communist scum. Just not full of it.

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

So who are the communists within the US government?

GreySeal9

And what proof do you have they are communists?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"] Obama and Elizabeth Warren come to mind.mmwmwmmwmwmm

And what proof do you have they are communists?

This is not proof.

Where is your proof, using credible sources, that Obama and Elizabeth Warren are communists?

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

And what proof do you have they are communists?

GreySeal9

This is not proof.

Where is your proof that Obama and Elizabeth Warren are communists?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"] Listen to what they say. They go on meaningless rants about imaginary social contracts and then use that as an excuse to seize whatever they want from private individuals.mmwmwmmwmwmm

This is not proof.

Where is your proof that Obama and Elizabeth Warren are communists?

You didn't prove proof.

Proof involves using sources to show that your assertion correct.

So where is it?

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

This is not proof.

Where is your proof that Obama and Elizabeth Warren are communists?

GreySeal9

You didn't prove proof.

Proof involves using sources to show that your assertion correct.

So where is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKjPI6no5ng - Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htX2usfqMEs - Warren

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"] I just told you. The things they say is standard communist rhetoric. Am I saying that they are secretly members of an underground communist party? Obviously not. I am saying that their ideology is communist, and so they are communists.mmwmwmmwmwmm

You didn't prove proof.

Proof involves using sources to show that your assertion correct.

So where is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKjPI6no5ng - Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htX2usfqMEs - Warren

Simply posting some YouTube clips doesn't prove anything.

Do I need to post the definition of proof? It will be shame if I have to.

Did I really have to find recordings of them talking for you? I get the impression that you are just missing my point.mmwmwmmwmwmm

Your point doesn't have any basis right now.

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

You didn't prove proof.

Proof involves using sources to show that your assertion correct.

So where is it?

GreySeal9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKjPI6no5ng - Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htX2usfqMEs - Warren

Simply posting some YouTube clips doesn't prove anything.

Do I need to post the definition of proof? It will be shame if I have to.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKjPI6no5ng - Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htX2usfqMEs - Warren

mmwmwmmwmwmm

Simply posting some YouTube clips doesn't prove anything.

Do I need to post the definition of proof? It will be shame if I have to.

I don't care what you think you're hearing in those videos.

Proof is not simply posting a YouTube video. You have to actually explain why those sources prove your assertion.

So it's not a matter of me being dense. It's a matter of you being lazy.

So do you want to try again?

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Simply posting some YouTube clips doesn't prove anything.

Do I need to post the definition of proof? It will be shame if I have to.

GreySeal9

I don't care what you think you're hearing in those videos.

Proof is not simply posting a YouTube video. You have to actually explain why those sources prove your assertion.

So it's not a matter of me being dense. It's a matter of you being lazy.

So do you want to try again?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"]You are really being dense. I posted videos of them espousing communist rhetoric. That's about as conclusive proof as can possibly exist: their own words.mmwmwmmwmwmm

I don't care what you think you're hearing in those videos.

Proof is not simply posting a YouTube video. You have to actually explain why those sources prove your assertion.

So it's not a matter of me being dense. It's a matter of you being lazy.

So do you want to try again?

Where in those clips are individual property rights denied? And don't whine about being asked to provide proof either. Just post the relevant quotes.

Oh, I'm very clear about what communism is. That's why I know that you haven't provided proof. ;)

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"][QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

I don't care what you think you're hearing in those videos.

Proof is not simply posting a YouTube video. You have to actually explain why those sources prove your assertion.

So it's not a matter of me being dense. It's a matter of you being lazy.

So do you want to try again?

GreySeal9

Where in those clips are individual property rights denied? And don't whine about being asked to provide proof either. Just post the relevant quotes.

Oh, I'm very clear about what communism is. That's why I know that you haven't provided proof. ;)

Do you need a transcript?

If Warren thinks she can just make up an imaginary "social contract" and say that you consented to it even though you were unaware of its existence, and then claim that as grounds to redistribute your money however she and the other goons in congress want, then she is a communist. If Obama thinks you don't have a right to your business because you couldn't build it without someone else, and that therefore the government should socialize whatever industry it wants, then he is a communist.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"] I don't know of any that don't have at least some. Obviously not everyone within the US government is a communist, but many are.Aljosa23

Oh they don't have to be completely free of communist scum. Just not full of it.

Laihendi? Vuurk?

My money's on Vuurk. The posting style, to me, seems more like him than Laihendi.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"] Do I really need to explain how denial of individual property rights is communist? Do you even know what communism is?mmwmwmmwmwmm

Where in those clips are individual property rights denied? And don't whine about being asked to provide proof either. Just post the relevant quotes.

Oh, I'm very clear about what communism is. That's why I know that you haven't provided proof. ;)

Do you need a transcript?

If Warren thinks she can just make up an imaginary "social contract" and say that you consented to it even though you were unaware of its existence, and then claim that as grounds to redistribute your money however she and the other goons in congress want, then she is a communist. If Obama thinks you don't have a right to your business because you couldn't build it without someone else, and that therefore the government should socialize whatever industry it wants, then he is a communist.

Let me guess: all taxes are theft, everything, should be privatized, the Invisible Hand will set us free.

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"]

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Where in those clips are individual property rights denied? And don't whine about being asked to provide proof either. Just post the relevant quotes.

Oh, I'm very clear about what communism is. That's why I know that you haven't provided proof. ;)

worlock77

Do you need a transcript?

If Warren thinks she can just make up an imaginary "social contract" and say that you consented to it even though you were unaware of its existence, and then claim that as grounds to redistribute your money however she and the other goons in congress want, then she is a communist. If Obama thinks you don't have a right to your business because you couldn't build it without someone else, and that therefore the government should socialize whatever industry it wants, then he is a communist.

Let me guess: all taxes are theft, everything, should be privatized, the Invisible Hand will set us free.

The. Relevant. Quotes. Are. In. The. Videos.

Do you need a transcript?mmwmwmmwmwmm

It's becoming pretty clear that the quotes in the videos don't actually prove your assertion. If any of them did, you would post them.

If Warren thinks she can just make up an imaginary "social contract" and say that you consented to it even though you were unaware of its existence, and then claim that as grounds to redistribute your money however she and the other goons in congress want, then she is a communistmmwmwmwmmwmwmm

And you say that I don't understand communism. :lol:

Sorry but Warren's idea of a social contract/=/communism, no matter how much you might think it does. If you disagree, provide some credible sources showing that Warren's idea of a social contract is communistic. And please don't whine about my request that you do basic research to prove your assertions.

If Obama thinks you don't have a right to your business because you couldn't build it without someone else, and that therefore the government should socialize whatever industry it wants, then he is a communist.

mwwmwmwmwmwm

Actually, Obama didn't actually say you don't have a right to your business. Some basic reading comprehension would help your understanding of this issue.

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"]The. Relevant. Quotes. Are. In. The. Videos.

Do you need a transcript?GreySeal9

It's becoming pretty clear that the quotes in the videos don't actually prove your assertion. If any of them did, you would post them.

If Warren thinks she can just make up an imaginary "social contract" and say that you consented to it even though you were unaware of its existence, and then claim that as grounds to redistribute your money however she and the other goons in congress want, then she is a communistmmwmwmwmmwmwmm

And you say that I don't understand communism. :lol:

Sorry but Warren's idea of a social contract/=/communism, no matter how much you might think it does. If you disagree, provide some credible sources showing that Warren's idea of a social contract is communistic. And please don't whine about my request that you do basic research to prove your assertions.

If Obama thinks you don't have a right to your business because you couldn't build it without someone else, and that therefore the government should socialize whatever industry it wants, then he is a communist.

mwwmwmwmwmwm

Actually, Obama didn't actually say you don't have a right to your business. Some basic reading comprehension would help your understanding of this issue.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"] The. Relevant. Quotes. Are. In. The. Videos.

Do you need a transcript?

If Warren thinks she can just make up an imaginary "social contract" and say that you consented to it even though you were unaware of its existence, and then claim that as grounds to redistribute your money however she and the other goons in congress want, then she is a communist. If Obama thinks you don't have a right to your business because you couldn't build it without someone else, and that therefore the government should socialize whatever industry it wants, then he is a communist.

mmwmwmmwmwmm

Let me guess: all taxes are theft, everything, should be privatized, the Invisible Hand will set us free.

So then taxes are theft?

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"]The. Relevant. Quotes. Are. In. The. Videos.

Do you need a transcript?mmwmwmmwmwmm

It's becoming pretty clear that the quotes in the videos don't actually prove your assertion. If any of them did, you would post them.

If Warren thinks she can just make up an imaginary "social contract" and say that you consented to it even though you were unaware of its existence, and then claim that as grounds to redistribute your money however she and the other goons in congress want, then she is a communistmmwmwmwmmwmwmm

And you say that I don't understand communism. :lol:

Sorry but Warren's idea of a social contract/=/communism, no matter how much you might think it does. If you disagree, provide some credible sources showing that Warren's idea of a social contract is communistic. And please don't whine about my request that you do basic research to prove your assertions.

If Obama thinks you don't have a right to your business because you couldn't build it without someone else, and that therefore the government should socialize whatever industry it wants, then he is a communist.

mwwmwmwmwmwm

Actually, Obama didn't actually say you don't have a right to your business. Some basic reading comprehension would help your understanding of this issue.

They don't make your point. If you disagree, show me, using credible sources, how they do.

You assume that I agree with you that Obama and Warren have denied individual property rights. If you think that that it is the case, you're going to have to demonstrate it. So far you have just insisted that they are denying property rights without explaining how. I don't care about your personal assumptions one bit, so don't bother with them.

Again, basic reading comprehension would help your understanding of this issue.

I may be a Communist after watching this video learning on how to spot a Communist. Now I know Obama isn't a Communist. Not because of failed evidence that says he is, but because America isn't a communism state and Obama is America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWeZ5SKXvj8

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="mmwmwmmwmwmm"]The. Relevant. Quotes. Are. In. The. Videos.

Do you need a transcript?mmwmwmmwmwmm

It's becoming pretty clear that the quotes in the videos don't actually prove your assertion. If any of them did, you would post them.

If Warren thinks she can just make up an imaginary "social contract" and say that you consented to it even though you were unaware of its existence, and then claim that as grounds to redistribute your money however she and the other goons in congress want, then she is a communistmmwmwmwmmwmwmm

And you say that I don't understand communism. :lol:

Sorry but Warren's idea of a social contract/=/communism, no matter how much you might think it does. If you disagree, provide some credible sources showing that Warren's idea of a social contract is communistic. And please don't whine about my request that you do basic research to prove your assertions.

If Obama thinks you don't have a right to your business because you couldn't build it without someone else, and that therefore the government should socialize whatever industry it wants, then he is a communist.

mwwmwmwmwmwm

Actually, Obama didn't actually say you don't have a right to your business. Some basic reading comprehension would help your understanding of this issue.

Please explain how there can be individual property rights without there being some form of social contract.

SUD123456

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

Please explain how there can be individual property rights without there being some form of social contract.

LOXO7

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

Please explain how there can be individual property rights without there being some form of social contract.

LOXO7

And yet rights do not exist without somebody to enforce them.

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

Please explain how there can be individual property rights without there being some form of social contract.

LOXO7

[QUOTE="LOXO7"][QUOTE="SUD123456"]

Please explain how there can be individual property rights without there being some form of social contract.

SUD123456

[QUOTE="LOXO7"][QUOTE="SUD123456"]

Please explain how there can be individual property rights without there being some form of social contract.

worlock77

And yet rights do not exist without somebody to enforce them.

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"] What? You don't get rights through law. If you do. These "rights" are called privileges granted to you by the authority doing the granting. Privileges can be taken away just as easily as they were given. Rights. Freedom. Cannot.LOXO7

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"] What? You don't get rights through law. If you do. These "rights" are called privileges granted to you by the authority doing the granting. Privileges can be taken away just as easily as they were given. Rights. Freedom. Cannot.LOXO7

And yet rights do not exist without somebody to enforce them.

Umm....lol?

I did not say use, I said enforce. What right do you think you have to property if not through social contract?

[QUOTE="LOXO7"][QUOTE="SUD123456"]Please provide the state of nature rationale for individual property rights.

SUD123456

[QUOTE="LOXO7"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

And yet rights do not exist without somebody to enforce them.

worlock77

Umm....lol?

I did not say use, I said enforce. What right do you think you have to property if not through social contract?

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"] Right. You do not have rights if you do not use them. Slaves don't have rights.LOXO7

Umm....lol?

I did not say use, I said enforce. What right do you think you have to property if not through social contract?

Are we being trolled here? On the last page you were saying that rights don't come through law (which is a social contract). So I ask you what rights do you have if not through social contract?

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Umm....lol?

I did not say use, I said enforce. What right do you think you have to property if not through social contract?

worlock77

Are we being trolled here? On the last page you were saying that rights don't come through law (which is a social contract). So I ask you what rights do you have if not through social contract?

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"] Is there a difference? Rights are power. Slaves have no power because they don't use/enforce they're rights. I have right to property as everyone else has right to property. Right's are not exclusive benefits. Maybe they were when kings...

LOXO7

Are we being trolled here? On the last page you were saying that rights don't come through law (which is a social contract). So I ask you what rights do you have if not through social contract?

Answer my question first.

[QUOTE="LOXO7"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Are we being trolled here? On the last page you were saying that rights don't come through law (which is a social contract). So I ask you what rights do you have if not through social contract?

worlock77

Answer my question first.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"] You asked first but, what rights do you have?LOXO7

Answer my question first.

*sigh*

Fine. I'll just assume you are talking for Thomas Hobbes. What rights do I have if not through social contract?

A right is power. Power is freedom. True freedom is what Hobbes describes. To do and own anything you wish. Yes, that is true. But he gets the law of nature wrong. Law is limitation of freedom. The Constitution of the United States is law for the government. It limits what it can do. The one and only law of nature is you cannot take an other's freedom. You don't give up your rights (to do and own) for peace. That makes no sense for freedom.

Rights break down to this. You may do anything you want. You may own anything you can.

Law breaks down to, you may not take rights.

Look at that. You were right. I do have rights through social contract. Rights through the state...of nature. Nature has authority over me. But the government state, the one that you are referring to, does not.

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"] The law didn't create me.LOXO7

Fine. I'll just assume you are talking for Thomas Hobbes. What rights do I have if not through social contract?

A right is power. Power is freedom. True freedom is what Hobbes describes. To do and own anything you wish. Yes, that is true. But he gets the law of nature wrong. Law is limitation of freedom. The Constitution of the United States is law for the government. It limits what it can do. The one and only law of nature is you cannot take an other's freedom. You don't give up your rights (to do and own) for peace. That makes no sense for freedom.

Rights break down to this. You may do anything you want. You may own anything you can.

Law breaks down to, you may not take rights.

Look at that. You were right. I do have rights through social contract. Rights through the state...of nature. Nature has authority over me. But the government state, the one that you are referring to, does not.

LOXO7

So what rights do you have through nature?

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]And it did not create the guy that is bigger than you either.

SUD123456

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

Fine. I'll just assume you are talking for Thomas Hobbes. What rights do I have if not through social contract?

A right is power. Power is freedom. True freedom is what Hobbes describes. To do and own anything you wish. Yes, that is true. But he gets the law of nature wrong. Law is limitation of freedom. The Constitution of the United States is law for the government. It limits what it can do. The one and only law of nature is you cannot take an other's freedom. You don't give up your rights (to do and own) for peace. That makes no sense for freedom.

Rights break down to this. You may do anything you want. You may own anything you can.

Law breaks down to, you may not take rights.

Look at that. You were right. I do have rights through social contract. Rights through the state...of nature. Nature has authority over me. But the government state, the one that you are referring to, does not.

worlock77

So what rights do you have through nature?

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

Oh they don't have to be completely free of communist scum. Just not full of it.

worlock77

Laihendi? Vuurk?

My money's on Vuurk. The posting style, to me, seems more like him than Laihendi.

I may be a Communist after watching this video learning on how to spot a Communist. Now I know Obama isn't a Communist. Not because of failed evidence that says he is, but because America isn't a communism state and Obama is America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWeZ5SKXvj8

LOXO7

Never heard of him

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LOXO7"]

Fine. I'll just assume you are talking for Thomas Hobbes. What rights do I have if not through social contract?

A right is power. Power is freedom. True freedom is what Hobbes describes. To do and own anything you wish. Yes, that is true. But he gets the law of nature wrong. Law is limitation of freedom. The Constitution of the United States is law for the government. It limits what it can do. The one and only law of nature is you cannot take an other's freedom. You don't give up your rights (to do and own) for peace. That makes no sense for freedom.

Rights break down to this. You may do anything you want. You may own anything you can.

Law breaks down to, you may not take rights.

Look at that. You were right. I do have rights through social contract. Rights through the state...of nature. Nature has authority over me. But the government state, the one that you are referring to, does not.

LOXO7

So what rights do you have through nature?

I have rights enumerated through law. Now you can say that these are privileges sure, but we use the term "rights" becuase they're held to be inherent to each person and not to be taken away unless one commits some flagrant violation of the law.

So what rights do you have though nature?