I can see why a lot of people don't want to be Christians...

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import_fighter1

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#151 import_fighter1
Member since 2003 • 1218 Posts
[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

At least in the Bible, I think that the way in which God wants us to love him is very different than the way in which people think he wants us to love him. This passage is, I believe, edifying on this subject:

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'" (Matthew 25:34-40)

The implications here are made even clearer when combined with this passage:

"Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 'Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?' Jesus replied: ''Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.'" (Matthew 22:34-40)

I always found this a strange thing - Jesus is asked for a singular greatest commandment, yethe replies with two - until I realized what I believe to be a simple fact: loving God and loving your neighbor are equivalent actions; that is to say, one loves God by loving one's neighbor - the greatest commandment is fulfilled by obeying the second commandment which "is like it".

Perhaps the scripture says that but there have been many posts from many Christians on these boards that state that certain parts of the bible state to love him or else bad things will become of you. Many parts of the bible can be taken in several different ways. Current religious thought, however, concerns believing in Christ, becoming one with the Lord and going to church to be forgiven of your sins. That right there tells me that I must obey the Lord and believe in Him or else I will go to hell regardless if it is in the bible or not.

You forgot the part about when you go to church you have to give money or you are shunned upon..
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import_fighter1

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#152 import_fighter1
Member since 2003 • 1218 Posts
[QUOTE="Trinners"]

[QUOTE="Skeledragon"]

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]... the very basis of Christian thought is that you will go to hell if you do not believe in God and Jesus Christ. He does not need to tell me anything. It is implied by the beliefs.

what about the people who have never heard of Jesus, are they sentenced to hell, or is it your faultfor not converting them?

AFAIK, people who never heard of Jesus won't goto hell and I believe they are stuck in purgatory, those that did hear about Jesus and ignored it will goto hell though.

wow..what a wonderful and loving god...
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XturnalS

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#153 XturnalS
Member since 2004 • 5020 Posts

I'm not Christian because I believe in a little thing called science and empirical evidence.

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import_fighter1

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#154 import_fighter1
Member since 2003 • 1218 Posts

[QUOTE="DragonRebel0908"]

Last night at church the pastor was saying that you have to be as "perfect as possible" to get into heaven. No human being can be perfect. They talk about God's love and mercy and then turn around and say you're gonna go to hell anyway. People can believe in God, have faith in him, worship him, thank him, be kind and loving to others and help those in need but if they check out a hot girl or drink a beer or say a cuss word they're automatically going to hell regardless. That crap right there ticks me off but makes me scared and nervous at the same time.

flowersjf

That's false, I'm a Christian and you don't have to be as "perfect as possible" in order to get to Heaven. As long as you're saved and ask God to forgive you for your sins everyday, then you should be okay. (There's more to it than that)

You do know that there are many different types of christians and they all believe something different and have different interpretations of the bible, right? What I'd like to know is which christians are going to go to hell for not believing the correct interpretation because apparently god didn't get his word across very clearly and he was very vague...

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ehsan8888

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#155 ehsan8888
Member since 2007 • 2303 Posts
[QUOTE="import_fighter1"][QUOTE="flowersjf"][QUOTE="DragonRebel0908"]

Last night at church the pastor was saying that you have to be as "perfect as possible" to get into heaven. No human being can be perfect. They talk about God's love and mercy and then turn around and say you're gonna go to hell anyway. People can believe in God, have faith in him, worship him, thank him, be kind and loving to others and help those in need but if they check out a hot girl or drink a beer or say a cuss word they're automatically going to hell regardless. That crap right there ticks me off but makes me scared and nervous at the same time.

That's false, I'm a Christian and you don't have to be as "perfect as possible" in order to get to Heaven. As long as you're saved and ask God to forgive you for your sins everyday, then you should be okay. (There's more to it than that)

You do know that there are many different types of christians and they all believe something different and have different interpretations of the bible, right? What I'd like to know is which christians are going to go to hell for not believing the correct interpretation because apparently god did get his word across very clearly and he was very vague...

Where does it say that in any books of Christianity, or branches of it? In fact God encourages tolerance of other Religions.
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mrbojangles25

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#156 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 60619 Posts

[QUOTE="import_fighter1"][QUOTE="flowersjf"] That's false, I'm a Christian and you don't have to be as "perfect as possible" in order to get to Heaven. As long as you're saved and ask God to forgive you for your sins everyday, then you should be okay. (There's more to it than that)ehsan8888
You do know that there are many different types of christians and they all believe something different and have different interpretations of the bible, right? What I'd like to know is which christians are going to go to hell for not believing the correct interpretation because apparently god did get his word across very clearly and he was very vague...

Where does it say that in any books of Christianity, or branches of it? In fact God encourages tolerance of other Religions.

it doesnt really matter what God teaches when all his followers dont listen to him

like the Indian girl said...God is God.

Lets just leave it at that and go eat some cake. Or pie. a la mode

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import_fighter1

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#157 import_fighter1
Member since 2003 • 1218 Posts
[QUOTE="import_fighter1"][QUOTE="flowersjf"] That's false, I'm a Christian and you don't have to be as "perfect as possible" in order to get to Heaven. As long as you're saved and ask God to forgive you for your sins everyday, then you should be okay. (There's more to it than that)ehsan8888
You do know that there are many different types of christians and they all believe something different and have different interpretations of the bible, right? What I'd like to know is which christians are going to go to hell for not believing the correct interpretation because apparently god did get his word across very clearly and he was very vague...

Where does it say that in any books of Christianity, or branches of it? In fact God encourages tolerance of other Religions.

You don't know christianity very well do you?
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mindstorm

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#159 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

I'm not Christian because I believe in a little thing called science and empirical evidence.

XturnalS

Me too... but I'm a Christian.
You do know that there are many different types of christians and they all believe something different and have different interpretations of the bible, right? What I'd like to know is which christians are going to go to hell for not believing the correct interpretation because apparently god didn't get his word across very clearly and he was very vague...

import_fighter1

Actually I think the Bible is clear on most issues, the problem is that we come to it with our own imperfections. Here is a quote by Søren Kierkegaard regarding this:

"The Bible is very easy to understand. But we as Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be unable to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand we are obliged to act accordingly. Take any words in the New Testament and forget everything except pledging yourself to act accordingly. My God, you will say, if I do that my whole life will be ruined."

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GabuEx

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#160 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

You forgot the part about when you go to church you have to give money or you are shunned upon..import_fighter1

Some Christians actually believe that the tithe is illegal.

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GabuEx

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#162 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

wow..what a wonderful and loving god...import_fighter1

Dude, no offense, but if you're going to form opinions on Christianity, at least take the time to research it yourself - don't just take other people's word for it and then pass judgment.

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ehsan8888

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#163 ehsan8888
Member since 2007 • 2303 Posts
[QUOTE="ehsan8888"][QUOTE="import_fighter1"] You do know that there are many different types of christians and they all believe something different and have different interpretations of the bible, right? What I'd like to know is which christians are going to go to hell for not believing the correct interpretation because apparently god did get his word across very clearly and he was very vague...import_fighter1
Where does it say that in any books of Christianity, or branches of it? In fact God encourages tolerance of other Religions.

You don't know christianity very well do you?

I don't know as much as I know about Islam, but I still know a good amount, thank you very much.
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firstfist

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#164 firstfist
Member since 2004 • 1745 Posts

Quite frankly I view those as just parables with a message, not as actual historical accounts, something which is a recurring thing in the Bible. This is not some sort of new idea brought about just in the light of modern science; even in its earliest days there was a Christian school of thought that preached an allegorical interpretation of the Bible.

GabuEx

My father in law is a Pastor for the Methodist Church. He has a VERY open mind, about science, other religons, ect. He tells me the bible is really meant to be taken literally. There may be some small sects that preach that, but most do not. Besides, I do believe this is supposed to be about why people don't want to be christians, not about why people would not want to be christians except for one small sect that hardly anyone knows about.

1. One who kills, steals, rapes, or whatever else is one who has hatred in his heart, and is thus incapable of loving his neighbor as himself. Do you not agree that it is better for the individual not to do such things? And would you not commend someone who convinced someone to lead a life without such hatred?

GabuEx

Of course I would. I have had two people that were close to me murdered, and in henious ways. Not just run of your mill shot in the street. I condemn those murderers, but if they repent and profess thier love for Jesus they will be saved? What a load of mallarkie.

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zarshack

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#165 zarshack
Member since 2009 • 9936 Posts

Shouldnt let it make you nervous, its all a bunch of lies anyway.

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mrbojangles25

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#166 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 60619 Posts

[QUOTE="XturnalS"]

I'm not Christian because I believe in a little thing called science and empirical evidence.

mindstorm

Me too... but I'm a Christian.

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ehsan8888

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#167 ehsan8888
Member since 2007 • 2303 Posts

it doesnt really matter what God teaches when all his followers dont listen to him

like the Indian girl said...God is God.

Lets just leave it at that and go eat some cake. Or pie. a la mode

It does matter what God teaches when there are people listening to them. There may be some people that don't listen but that's fine, they aren't forced to. And you're right, God is God.

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mindstorm

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#168 mindstorm
Member since 2003 • 15255 Posts

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

[QUOTE="XturnalS"]

I'm not Christian because I believe in a little thing called science and empirical evidence.

mrbojangles25

Me too... but I'm a Christian.

"I don't think you know what that word means." ...or something like that. It's been so long since I've seen that movie so I'm sure my quote is waaay off.

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import_fighter1

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#169 import_fighter1
Member since 2003 • 1218 Posts

[QUOTE="import_fighter1"]wow..what a wonderful and loving god...GabuEx

Dude, no offense, but if you're going to form opinions on Christianity, at least take the time to research it yourself - don't just take other people's word for it and then pass judgment.

I think I've done more than my share of research with 12 years of christian schools
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chessmaster1989

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#170 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="mindstorm"] Me too... but I'm a Christian. mindstorm

"I don't think you know what that word means." ...or something like that. It's been so long since I've seen that movie so I'm sure my quote is waaay off.

You just fell for one of the ****c blunders, the most famous of which is never get involved in a land war in Asia. But only slightly less well known IS THIS: "Never go up against a Cicilian when death is on the line." Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha *falls over dead*

Probably not the exact quote, but it gets the general idea :lol:

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ice_radon

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#171 ice_radon
Member since 2002 • 70464 Posts
That is some weird arse sect. Seriously, most either ask you atone for your sins in some way, other like Lutherans believe in the "good works" program where you can atone through daily practice of your faith and just how you go about life and how you help/treat others.
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blackngold29

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#172 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
Well, you're right nobody can be perfect. Which is the reason your pastor didn't say you have to be perfect.
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mrbojangles25

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#173 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 60619 Posts

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

chessmaster1989

"I don't think you know what that word means." ...or something like that. It's been so long since I've seen that movie so I'm sure my quote is waaay off.

You just fell for one of the ****c blunders, the most famous of which is never get involved in a land war in Asia. But only slightly less well known IS THIS: "Never go up against a Cicilian when death is on the line." Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha *falls over dead*

Probably not the exact quote, but it gets the general idea :lol:

God bless both of you for backing me up on that subject change.

Now, shall we hijack the thread?

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import_fighter1

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#174 import_fighter1
Member since 2003 • 1218 Posts

[QUOTE="import_fighter1"]You forgot the part about when you go to church you have to give money or you are shunned upon..GabuEx

Some Christians actually believe that the tithe is illegal.

That just proves my point even further. That might be a minor difference in beliefs but there are many thousands more differences between "christians". So which ones are going to hell for believing the wrong things?
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chessmaster1989

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#175 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="mindstorm"] "I don't think you know what that word means." ...or something like that. It's been so long since I've seen that movie so I'm sure my quote is waaay off.

mrbojangles25

You just fell for one of the ****c blunders, the most famous of which is never get involved in a land war in Asia. But only slightly less well known IS THIS: "Never go up against a Cicilian when death is on the line." Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha *falls over dead*

Probably not the exact quote, but it gets the general idea :lol:

God bless both of you for backing me up on that subject change.

Now, shall we hijack the thread?

You defeated my giant, which means you might have put the poison in front of yourself, counting on your strength to save you, so I clearly cannot drink the wine in front of you. But, you also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in your studies you found that man was mortal, so you'd want to keep the poison as far away from you as you could, so I clearly cannot trust the wine in front of me!

:lol:

Such a great scene

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GabuEx

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#176 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

My father in law is a Pastor for the Methodist Church. He has a VERY open mind, about science, other religons, ect. He tells me the bible is really meant to be taken literally. There may be some small sects that preach that, but most do not. Besides, I do believe this is supposed to be about why people don't want to be christians, not about why people would not want to be christians except for one small sect that hardly anyone knows about.

firstfist

No offense to your father-in-law, but he does not represent the entire Christian faith. One of the earliest and most prominent theological schools in Christianity was in Alexandria, in Greece, and it preached an allegorical interpretation. Origen of Alexandria had this to say:

"For who that has understanding will sup­pose that the first, and second, and third day, and the evening and the morning, ex­isted without a sun, and moon, and stars? And that the first day was, as it were, also without a sky? And who is so foolish as to suppose that God, after the manner of a husbandman, planted a paradise in Eden, towards the east, and placed in it a tree of life, visible and palpable, so that one tasting of the fruit by the bodily teeth obtained life? And again, that one was a partaker of good and evil by masticating what was taken from the tree? And if God is said to walk in the paradise in the evening, and Adam to hide himself under a tree, I do not suppose that anyone doubts that these things figuratively indi­cate certain mysteries, the history having taken place in appearance, and not literally." (emph. added)

And St. Augustine (not of Alexandria) said this:

"With the scriptures it is a matter of treating about the faith. For that reason, as I have noted repeatedly, if anyone, not understanding the mode of divine eloquence, should find something about these matters [about the physical universe] in our books, or hear of the same from those books, of such a kind that it seems to be at variance with the perceptions of his own rational faculties, let him believe that these other things are in no way necessary to the admonitions or accounts or predictions of the scriptures. In short, it must be said that our authors knew the truth about the nature of the skies, but it was not the intention of the Spirit of God, who spoke through them, to teach men anything that would not be of use to them for their salvation." (emph. added)

To say that it is only "one small sect that hardly anyone knows about" is, well, not really true. The above two people are extremely influential figures, and they are not alone in that stance.

Of course I would. I have had two people that were close to me murdered, and in henious ways. Not just run of your mill shot in the street. I condemn those murderers, but if they repent and profess thier love for Jesus they will be saved? What a load of mallarkie.

firstfist

No offense, but I get the sense that you don't really understand what it really means to repent. Far too many get the sense that it is just saying "oh yeah, Jesus, we're cool now" and then they're fine and they go to heaven. That just isn't true - to repent is to truly recognize the ultimate error of your ways and to truly desire to no longer want to do such things anymore. The past can never be changed, but if someone truly wishes to change in the future and is sincere about it, ought we not to give them that chance? Would it not be better to forgive their past and allow them to improve the future than to condemn them for that which they cannot change and with which they do not any longer wish to be associated?

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GabuEx

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#177 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

I think I've done more than my share of research with 12 years of christian schoolsimport_fighter1

Then tell me: are you aware of the origins of the doctrine of eternal damnation? It was not always the dominant doctrine.

That just proves my point even further. That might be a minor difference in beliefs but there are many thousands more differences between "christians". So which ones are going to hell for believing the wrong things?import_fighter1

Do you want my personal belief?

I don't believe that anyone goes to hell for believing the wrong thing.

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import_fighter1

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#178 import_fighter1
Member since 2003 • 1218 Posts

[QUOTE="import_fighter1"]I think I've done more than my share of research with 12 years of christian schoolsGabuEx

Then tell me: are you aware of the origins of the doctrine of eternal damnation? It was not always the dominant doctrine.

That just proves my point even further. That might be a minor difference in beliefs but there are many thousands more differences between "christians". So which ones are going to hell for believing the wrong things?import_fighter1

Do you want my personal belief?

I don't believe that anyone goes to hell for believing the wrong thing.

Of course, then you go to the next christian and they believe the opposite. Everyone believes something different to suit their lifestyle. Christians are separating from thereselves more and more as time goes on. I believe that christianity has become one of the least unified of all religions. No matter what christian you talk to, they will have almost totally different beliefs even on some of the most major points of christianity. Some people that call thereself christians actually have very little knowledge of what they are even worshipping or believing in.. but they believe just acknowledging that their christian they have a spot in heaven..

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GabuEx

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#179 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Of course, then you go to the next christian and they believe the opposite. Everyone believes something different to suit their lifestyle. Christians are separating from thereselves more and more as time goes on. I believe that christianity has become one of the least unified of all religions. No matter what christian you talk to, they will have almost totally different beliefs even on some of the most major points of christianity. Some people that call thereself christians actually have very little knowledge of what they are even worshipping or believing in.. but they believe just acknowledging that their christian they have a spot in heaven..

import_fighter1

When did I assert anything different? In no way was I denying that there are Christians who believe such things, only that I do not do so and that such a belief is not a requirement of someone who follows Christianity. As I said to another person, one ought to hold interpretations they dislike against the people who make them, not against the text that is being interpreted.

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Hot-Tamale

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#180 Hot-Tamale
Member since 2009 • 2052 Posts

Belief in general closes one's mind to any alternatives to a given situation. The less you believe, the more open your mind is. I choose to appreciate all the manifestiations of life, not simply those created by a big naked guy living up in the sky.

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ehsan8888

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#181 ehsan8888
Member since 2007 • 2303 Posts

Belief in general closes one's mind to any alternatives to a given situation. The less you believe, the more open your mind is. I choose to appreciate all the manifestiations of life, not simply those created by a big naked guy living up in the sky.

Hot-Tamale

Not exactly. Faith in general often embarks a man to open mindedness. There are some people that say, "No! Christianity is the only religion that's right and all you'll burn in hell if you don't follow it" That is an example of a close minded man focused on one thing and not open to other things. Then there is a person that says, "Okay I believe in Christianity, yet I will also listen to the views of Judaism, Islam, Science, etc." Often people misinterpret a Religious person as close minded. Look at Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr., they were all open-minded men who were also religious. Religion is based off of open-mindedness. Some people can be close minded about the Scriptures, but not the Scriptures themselves.

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GabuEx

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#182 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Belief in general closes one's mind to any alternatives to a given situation. The less you believe, the more open your mind is. I choose to appreciate all the manifestiations of life, not simply those created by a big naked guy living up in the sky.

Hot-Tamale

And do you believe that what you have said is true? ;)

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hoola

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#183 hoola
Member since 2004 • 6422 Posts

Yeah, that is one thing that really made me angry when I was a believer. I hated how you had to worship your god and do whatever he says is correct to be considered good. That is something that Kim Jong Il does do, and something that a kind and loving being does not do.

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weezyfb

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#184 weezyfb
Member since 2009 • 14703 Posts
if god loves me he will let me in to heaven. i a regular guy.. that is if he is as kind as the book claims.. if not what evs
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#185 Hot-Tamale
Member since 2009 • 2052 Posts

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

Belief in general closes one's mind to any alternatives to a given situation. The less you believe, the more open your mind is. I choose to appreciate all the manifestiations of life, not simply those created by a big naked guy living up in the sky.

GabuEx

And do you believe that what you have said is true? ;)

I realize that the belief that belief is unhealthy is still belief, so I just settle for being as open-minded as I possibly can.

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GabuEx

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#186 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Yeah, that is one thing that really made me angry when I was a believer. I hated how you had to worship your god and do whatever he says is correct to be considered good. That is something that Kim Jong Il does do, and something that a kind and loving being does not do.

hoola

I've found the instructions of Jesus to be much more along the lines of plain good advice, really, not some edicts by a tyrannical dictator who cares nothing for his subjects. Why would loving one's neighbor as oneself be listed as one of the greatest commandments if God were some sort of monster?

I'm of the opinion that those who find the instructions to be repugnant are probably not being given the right instructions. :P

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ghoklebutter

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#187 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts

Just curious Gabu; are you a Christian?

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Hot-Tamale

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#188 Hot-Tamale
Member since 2009 • 2052 Posts

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

Belief in general closes one's mind to any alternatives to a given situation. The less you believe, the more open your mind is. I choose to appreciate all the manifestiations of life, not simply those created by a big naked guy living up in the sky.

ehsan8888

Not exactly. Faith in general often embarks a man to open mindedness. There are some people that say, "No! Christianity is the only religion that's right and all you'll burn in hell if you don't follow it" That is an example of a close minded man focused on one thing and not open to other things. Then there is a person that says, "Okay I believe in Christianity, yet I will also listen to the views of Judaism, Islam, Science, etc." Often people misinterpret a Religious person as close minded. Look at Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr., they were all open-minded men who were also religious. Religion is based off of open-mindedness. Some people can be close minded about the Scriptures, but not the Scriptures themselves.

I have no biff with the fact that the vast majority of great men in the world were religious. I'm just saying that people can make their lives considerably more interesting if they approach everything with an air of mystery. Belief, even atheism, pre-associates certain aspects of the human condition with certain attributes, and that's not a bad thing necessarily, but if a nonbeliever were to have an opinion that was proven wrong by science or logic, they would be less likely to accept the new standard if they had already associated that outcome with a certain characteristic.

I apologize if my explanation sounds a little convoluted, but all good ideas are confusing, right? Democracy anyone? :P

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GabuEx

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#189 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

I realize that the belief that belief is unhealthy is still belief, so I just settle for being as open-minded as I possibly can.

Hot-Tamale

Well, fair enough, but I kinda doubt that one could properly function in life without ever coming to conclusions based on evidence that is not completely rock-solid proof - which is really all that belief is.

Just curious Gabu; are you a Christian?

ghoklebutter

I consider myself one. Whether I am one is an exercise left up to the reader.

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Hot-Tamale

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#190 Hot-Tamale
Member since 2009 • 2052 Posts

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

I realize that the belief that belief is unhealthy is still belief, so I just settle for being as open-minded as I possibly can.

GabuEx

Well, fair enough, but I kinda doubt that one could properly function in life without ever coming to conclusions based on evidence that is not completely rock-solid proof, which is really all that belief is.

Just curious Gabu; are you a Christian?

ghoklebutter

I consider myself one. Whether I am one is an exercise left up to the reader.

My conclusion is that all kinds of belief, including atheism, are inherently irrational, but much of the time unavoidable. I just try to be as open-minded as I possibly can (which is quite difficult because I am an exceptionally factional person).

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Dariency

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#191 Dariency
Member since 2003 • 9465 Posts

Last night at church the pastor was saying that you have to be as "perfect as possible" to get into heaven. No human being can be perfect. They talk about God's love and mercy and then turn around and say you're gonna go to hell anyway. People can believe in God, have faith in him, worship him, thank him, be kind and loving to others and help those in need but if they check out a hot girl or drink a beer or say a cuss word they're automatically going to hell regardless. That crap right there ticks me off but makes me scared and nervous at the same time.

DragonRebel0908

I've also heard this elsewhere. "God is perfect so he can't allow anything less than perfect into heaven" or "God cannot allow sin into his presence". It's not that your pastor is "wrong" per say, but rather he is on another branch of the Chrisrian belief.

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GabuEx

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#192 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

My conclusion is that all kinds of belief, including atheism, are inherently irrational, but much of the time unavoidable. I just try to be as open-minded as I possibly can (which is quite difficult because I am an exceptionally factional person).

Hot-Tamale

Well, like I said, coming to a strong conclusion that one should not come to a strong conclusion seems... inherently contradictory to me, but I'll not belabor the point.

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Hot-Tamale

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#193 Hot-Tamale
Member since 2009 • 2052 Posts

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

My conclusion is that all kinds of belief, including atheism, are inherently irrational, but much of the time unavoidable. I just try to be as open-minded as I possibly can (which is quite difficult because I am an exceptionally factional person).

GabuEx

Well, like I said, coming to a strong conclusion that one should not come to a strong conclusion seems... inherently contradictory to me, but I'll not belabor the point.

Well I'm not coming to a strong conclusion on this. I'm stayin open-minded toward it, even if it seems unlikely that I'd change my mind on the subject.

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ehsan8888

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#194 ehsan8888
Member since 2007 • 2303 Posts

[QUOTE="ehsan8888"]

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

Belief in general closes one's mind to any alternatives to a given situation. The less you believe, the more open your mind is. I choose to appreciate all the manifestiations of life, not simply those created by a big naked guy living up in the sky.

Hot-Tamale

Not exactly. Faith in general often embarks a man to open mindedness. There are some people that say, "No! Christianity is the only religion that's right and all you'll burn in hell if you don't follow it" That is an example of a close minded man focused on one thing and not open to other things. Then there is a person that says, "Okay I believe in Christianity, yet I will also listen to the views of Judaism, Islam, Science, etc." Often people misinterpret a Religious person as close minded. Look at Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr., they were all open-minded men who were also religious. Religion is based off of open-mindedness. Some people can be close minded about the Scriptures, but not the Scriptures themselves.

I have no biff with the fact that the vast majority of great men in the world were religious. I'm just saying that people can make their lives considerably more interesting if they approach everything with an air of mystery. Belief, even atheism, pre-associates certain aspects of the human condition with certain attributes, and that's not a bad thing necessarily, but if a nonbeliever were to have an opinion that was proven wrong by science or logic, they would be less likely to accept the new standard if they had already associated that outcome with a certain characteristic.

I apologize if my explanation sounds a little convoluted, but all good ideas are confusing, right? Democracy anyone? :P

It's all cool, I was just giving my own interpretation.
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-Chimera-

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#196 -Chimera-
Member since 2009 • 1852 Posts

[QUOTE="Hot-Tamale"]

I realize that the belief that belief is unhealthy is still belief, so I just settle for being as open-minded as I possibly can.

GabuEx

Well, fair enough, but I kinda doubt that one could properly function in life without ever coming to conclusions based on evidence that is not completely rock-solid proof - which is really all that belief is.

Eh, it doesn't get in the way all that often. I still get by just fine.
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GabuEx

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#197 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

thaats not christianity

catholics think that if you do good things you go to heaven ( have to work your way to heaven )

kidstercool

Eh?

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

What matters is not so much what you do, but why you do it. Works can and often are easily tainted and corrupted by impure motives - as we are told here:

"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (Matthew 6:1-4)

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#198 StaRzeG
Member since 2004 • 136 Posts
I like how all those rapists and gangbangers and murderers in jail can be "FORGIVEN" by God just because they are Christians and they can end up going to "heaven" too. Lmfao. Then you got an athiest who's doing charity work all over the place and constructing new schools for kids in 3rd world countries but that man will not go to heaven you know; he doesn't believe in God.
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ehsan8888

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#199 ehsan8888
Member since 2007 • 2303 Posts
I like how all those rapists and gangbangers and murderers in jail can be "FORGIVEN" by God just because they are Christians and they can end up going to "heaven" too. Lmfao. Then you got an athiest who's doing charity work all over the place and constructing new schools for kids in 3rd world countries but that man will not go to heaven you know; he doesn't believe in God. StaRzeG
Someone said this earlier (I think it was Gabu) that when a man wants to repent, he can say, "I sinnedm, but hey it's all cool God", yet not be truely sorry. When a person repents of their sins they have to cast away their sins, look deep into their souls, and truly be sorry and try not to do it again.
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GabuEx

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#200 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

I like how all those rapists and gangbangers and murderers in jail can be "FORGIVEN" by God just because they are Christians and they can end up going to "heaven" too.StaRzeG

Only if they are truly and deeply remorseful of what they have done such that they wish no longer to do it from this point on. Sincere repentance is not something one says or a motion one goes through, but rather something contained within one's heart. The past cannot be changed, but if someone sincerely wishes to put it behind him or her and work to improve the future, ought we not give them that chance rather than pointlessly damning them for all time for something that they can no longer change?

Then you got an athiest who's doing charity work all over the place and constructing new schools for kids in 3rd world countries but that man will not go to heaven you know; he doesn't believe in God.StaRzeG

Not only do I not believe that people are saved just by believing in Jesus, I also believe that the whole idea of eternal torment in hell is a fabrication that came later. The earliest Christians for the first five centuries believed that all humanity would be reconciled with God.