I don't believe in Hell......

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] I-GazaAli- explicitly state that people who do not believe in god and hell will suffer in hell for eternity, again simple as that. Now, of course this is my own belief which i have 100% freedom with it, despite the fact that it may or may not please some people. According to your logic i should feel offended when some atheist says "There is not God" because he implies that all my prayings are just a pile of crap.GazaAli

It may just give you a great disappointment and some sadness. It doesnt offend you.

And even if they do, it still implies that for some reason atheists deserve hell; and that with no sound reasoning.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]But it doesnt imply things about you as a person necessarily.

It may just give you a great disappointment and some sadness. It doesnt offend you.

GabuEx

You just said that anyone who does not believe in God and hell will suffer in hell for eternity; now you're saying that someone can be atheist an still a good moral person? Does that mean that good moral people will go to hell, or...?

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]But it doesnt imply things about you as a person necessarily.

It may just give you a great disappointment and some sadness. It doesnt offend you.

Teenaged

And even if they do, it still implies that for some reason atheists deserve hell; and that with no sound reasoning.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] This is really terrible. you of all people should not say this. I always tell religious people in my country that someone can be an atheist and still be a good moral person and some of them disagree with me. Now you are doing the same thing. you claim that being religious is the only way to being a good person which is wrong in my opinion.GazaAli

You just said that anyone who does not believe in God and hell will suffer in hell for eternity; now you're saying that someone can be atheist an still a good moral person? Does that mean that good moral people will go to hell, or...?

You see absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of good moral people suffering forever for eternity simply for having arrived at an incorrect conclusion in life?

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] This is really terrible. you of all people should not say this. I always tell religious people in my country that someone can be an atheist and still be a good moral person and some of them disagree with me. Now you are doing the same thing. you claim that being religious is the only way to being a good person which is wrong in my opinion.GazaAli

And even if they do, it still implies that for some reason atheists deserve hell; and that with no sound reasoning.

You talked generally about atheists dodging other people's beliefs, generally about atheists getting annoyed by the accusation of hell.

It seems to me that you are the one getting annoyed by atheists supporting their views and you try to find reasons why they should stop.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]You are so sure that most people who believe that atheists will go to hell, believe that atheists are good people?

And even if they do, it still implies that for some reason atheists deserve hell; and that with no sound reasoning.

Teenaged

You talked generally about atheists dodging other people's beliefs, generally about atheists getting annoyed by the accusation of hell.

Listen everyone, I believe that God is real, and I believe that Hell does not exist. why would God create such an amazing world, and then send us all to Hell if we're bad in life? It doesn't make sense. I am not trying to destroy your beliefs. You can believe what you like, and that's okay.

I want to know how many of you believe the same thing. I will respect your religion and beliefs.

tigertechie

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] Im talking about myself and i say that i believe that some atheists can be good people in this world.GazaAli

You talked generally about atheists dodging other people's beliefs, generally about atheists getting annoyed by the accusation of hell.

And I earlier asked you if you believe that most who claim that atheists will go to hell ...bla bla bla. As is obvious, your point of view is irrelevant to the general scale of this issue here. Your point of view does not apply for them, therefore you cannot expect from atheists to not get annoyed.

About what you said to Gabu: it is presumptuous to assume (at least for all) that atheists ended up being atheists by conscious choice, by disregarding data they know is true, simply denying God while they know he exists.

You yourself said that theism has to do with faith. Therefore not even theists know for sure whether God exists or not. They just believe. Thus all the talk about books, prophets etc is irrelevant since those things are obviously also insufficient to constitute theists, gnostic theists; ie to make them know for a fact that all their religion teaches is beyond doubt true.

Therefore, yes there is excuse to not believe in God.

___________________

Good night from me too.

@GabuEx: humanity does not have any excuse in not believing in God. Prophets were sent, books were sent too and a lot of people chose not to believe. Hence, some people insist on not believing, not just coming to a wrong conclusion by coincidence. If you dont want to suffer from eternal hell, then believe in God and follow his teachings, otherwise do whatever you want and take responsibilities for your actions. But as a side note, when someone really goes to Hell, i doubt anything will benefit him. What will really matter is that he is in hell, whether he believes he deserves to be there or not is going to change nothing. its 3AM here and i have early lectures tomorrow, i appreciate these discussion but i hope you dont get offended, time will tell eventually.GazaAli

That doesn't answer the question. You said yourself that atheists can be good moral individuals. So why are they being sent to hell just because they didn't believe that God exists? That kind of seems like God is being a bit of a jerk.

Have you even really thought about the logical implications of this? At least if one believes that atheists cannot be good moral people then one can assert that everyone going to hell is evil and deserves it (not that I would agree with that, but that's a different story).

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]@GabuEx: humanity does not have any excuse in not believing in God. Prophets were sent, books were sent too and a lot of people chose not to believe. Hence, some people insist on not believing, not just coming to a wrong conclusion by coincidence. If you dont want to suffer from eternal hell, then believe in God and follow his teachings, otherwise do whatever you want and take responsibilities for your actions. But as a side note, when someone really goes to Hell, i doubt anything will benefit him. What will really matter is that he is in hell, whether he believes he deserves to be there or not is going to change nothing. its 3AM here and i have early lectures tomorrow, i appreciate these discussion but i hope you dont get offended, time will tell eventually.GabuEx

That doesn't answer the question. You said yourself that atheists can be good moral individuals. So why are they being sent to hell just because they didn't believe that God exists? That kind of seems like God is being a bit of a jerk.

Have you even really thought about the logical implications of this?

There's also the fact that, if you take the Islamic/Christian hell, you pretty much have ~95% of all human beings going to hell. Famiking

The oldest concept of "hell" that I know of is the underworld from ancient greek paganism. It's a dark place with lots of lava and vacant canyons. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that that portrayal influenced many religions because buddhism, hinduism, christianity and islam teach of a place that's similar to the underworld. I don't think such a place exists but if it turns out I'm wrong, I'm pretty much screwed. :P

I couldnt sleep. but anyway its obvious that none of us is willing to change his mind which is fine of me and for your convenience lets assume that my logic failed. Time will tell so lets not worry ok?GazaAli

You're doing us a favor?

-_-

I couldnt sleep. but anyway its obvious that none of us is willing to change his mind which is fine of me and for your convenience lets assume that my logic failed. Time will tell so lets not worry ok?GazaAli

I don't know about you, but I kind of feel that the prospect of good, moral people burning in hell forever is something to worry about.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]I couldnt sleep. but anyway its obvious that none of us is willing to change his mind which is fine of me and for your convenience lets assume that my logic failed. Time will tell so lets not worry ok?GabuEx

I don't know about you, but I kind of feel that the prospect of good, moral people burning in hell forever is something to worry about.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]I couldnt sleep. but anyway its obvious that none of us is willing to change his mind which is fine of me and for your convenience lets assume that my logic failed. Time will tell so lets not worry ok?tigertechie

I don't know about you, but I kind of feel that the prospect of good, moral people burning in hell forever is something to worry about.

[QUOTE="tigertechie"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I don't know about you, but I kind of feel that the prospect of good, moral people burning in hell forever is something to worry about.

Dylan_11

[QUOTE="Dylan_11"][QUOTE="tigertechie"] No one is going to hell. It does not exist.tigertechie

Obviously arguing with you is a lost cause on so many different levels.

[QUOTE="GTA3_Darkel"]

ghoklebutter

Silly question, but did god create Hell? And was Satan around when he made the earth, or did he make him as well? If not I assume both of them were just hanging out together before hand, perhaps playing cards or something whilst they discussed what each of their domains would look like. I assume god gave in to Satan's idea of popping a talking snake on earth, otherwise he wouldn't have much to do, which is very kind of him.

Listen everyone, I believe that God is real, and I believe that Hell does not exist. why would God create such an amazing world, and then send us all to Hell if we're bad in life? It doesn't make sense. I am not trying to destroy your beliefs. You can believe what you like, and that's okay.

I want to know how many of you believe the same thing. I will respect your religion and beliefs.

tigertechie

I concur. Through everything I've read in the Bible, spiritual texts from other faiths, and just deep meditation, I've come to the personal belief that Hell does not exist. That's not to say you can't create the experience of Hell in this world, or the next, but I firmly do not believe that Hell exists as a place that a loving God is going to send people who didn't believe in him the right way.

Silly question, but did god create Hell? And was Satan around when he made the earth, or did he make him as well? If not I assume both of them were just hanging out together before hand, perhaps playing cards or something whilst they discussed what each of their domains would look like. I assume god gave in to Satan's idea of popping a talking snake on earth, otherwise he wouldn't have much to do, which is very kind of him.poptart

1. Yes, he created hell

2. Lucifer was indeed alive before the earth was made and he was created by God. Lucifer later rebelled against god and was therefore exiled from heaven and became Satan (the devil)

3. It's funny that you say that, because LDS doctrine says that all of the different gods (Lucifer being one of them) met in a council before earth's creation.

4. Lucifer didn't propose that before the earth was made. At the time when he disguised himself as a snake, he had already rebelled against God. Satan tricked Adam and Eve as an act of revenge against God's creation. Satan hated Adam and Eve because they reminded him of God (Adam and Eve were made in God's image).

hold on... you believe that hell is ridiculous, but you won't take the extra teensy-weensy micro step and to believe that the idea of a personal god is ridiculous? ... I am very confused, maybe if you could clarify TCchopperdave447

The concept of Hell as most organized religions believe it to exist actually does sound a lot more illogical and ridiculous than the concept of a creator for everything.

hell does exist, just not a burning hell of eternal torment. hell is just grave of mankind. really, how could someone worship a god that threatened to burn you for all eternity if you didnt do what he said?

That does NOT MAKE SENSE!!!

I think hell obviously exists but not after you die but while you are alive on this earth. For example if you are locked up in prison for a very long time (like say 2 or 3 years) this is obviously hell on earth for you. Or if you are feeling persecuted and hearing bad voices in your head then it also feels like hell. Or if you can't control your libido and sexual desire and it prevents you from functioning normally in life then it is hell. Or if you have some physically demanding job which you have to do for many hours every day but you don't like this job ordon't have the energyto doit thenthis is also hell for you.

Hell exists in many forms while we are alive, not after we die.

Out of curiosity, what is your doctrinal support for there being no hell?Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Out of curiosity, what is your doctrinal support for there being no hell?GazaAli

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Out of curiosity, what is your doctrinal support for there being no hell?ghoklebutter

Me thinks he quoted him just to repeat once more what he was saying last night. Vent idk.

Just wait and see, you are going to die eventually. I want to see the expressions of your face when you say "I got owned!".GazaAli

Listen everyone, I believe that God is real, and I believe that Hell does not exist. why would God create such an amazing world, and then send us all to Hell if we're bad in life? It doesn't make sense. I am not trying to destroy your beliefs. You can believe what you like, and that's okay.

I want to know how many of you believe the same thing. I will respect your religion and beliefs.

tigertechie

hellis a holiday resort in the core of the Earth as they say...

There is not Hell, why you guys should care what i say, this is really weird to be honest.GazaAli

[QUOTE="GazaAli"]There is not Hell, why you guys should care what i say, this is really weird to be honest.Mochyc

[QUOTE="Mochyc"][QUOTE="GazaAli"]There is not Hell, why you guys should care what i say, this is really weird to be honest.GazaAli

so tc believes in god, heaven, satan, talking snakes etc. but doesn't believe in hell? wtf