I never quite understood the "some animals are also g@y so its OK to be gay

First of all: This isn't an anti gay thread, anti gay rights or something like that. 

This is specifically against that specific "counter argument".

So a lot of anti gay people say that being gay is bad because it aint natural, pro-gay answer with "some animals are gay, so its cool".

I just dont see the weight of the argument...why are they implying that something is good because it happens amonst animals? Murder is natural, it happens a lot between animals, but it aint good...or even torture, some animals, like dolphins and cats, are known to enjoy torturing other animals for fun, So you can say that torture is natural, but natural=/=good.

And then there's the other point...which is...you're pretty much trying to say its good by comparing it to animals, so, animals do it, ok, what are you trying to prove exactly? Some animals also eat their own shit, you dont see anyone saying that it's cool to eat shit because some animals do it.

So, maybe im missing something, or I dont know, im against the gay hatred and the anti gay right bigots, but this is just an argument i've never been able to sympathyze with.

because assloads of people claim being gay is both a choice and unnatural. Animals being gay, over 1,500 documented species so far, blows this away.  The only excuses people have left to be anti-gay is religious reasons or "it's icky", both of which are unacceptable reasons

Because it brings up the argument of choice. Generally people who don't know what they are talking about say people choose to be gay and that its a sin and needs to be fixed because its unnatural etc. But I guess some people make the case that if it occurs elsewhere in nature that it isn't really a choice because most species of animals are capable of those kinds of concious decisions. 

because assloads of people claim being gay is both a choice and unnatural. Animals being gay, over 1,500 documented species so far, blows this away.  The only excuses people have left to be anti-gay is religious reasons or "it's icky", both of which are unacceptable reasons

wis3boi

Because it brings up the argument of choice. Generally people who don't know what they are talking about say people choose to be gay and that its a sin and needs to be fixed because its unnatural etc. But I guess some people make the case that if it occurs elsewhere in nature that it isn't really a choice because most species of animals are capable of those kinds of concious decisions. 

VendettaRed07

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

because assloads of people claim being gay is both a choice and unnatural. Animals being gay, over 1,500 documented species so far, blows this away.  The only excuses people have left to be anti-gay is religious reasons or "it's icky", both of which are unacceptable reasons

lightleggy

Because it brings up the argument of choice. Generally people who don't know what they are talking about say people choose to be gay and that its a sin and needs to be fixed because its unnatural etc. But I guess some people make the case that if it occurs elsewhere in nature that it isn't really a choice because most species of animals are capable of those kinds of concious decisions. 

VendettaRed07

everything is 'fuel' to them because they thrive off of twisting things and being professional victims

First of all: This isn't an anti gay thread, anti gay rights or something like that. 

This is specifically against that specific "counter argument".

So a lot of anti gay people say that being gay is bad because it aint natural, pro-gay answer with "some animals are gay, so its cool".

I just dont see the weight of the argument...why are they implying that something is good because it happens amonst animals? Murder is natural, it happens a lot between animals, but it aint good...or even torture, some animals, like dolphins and cats, are known to enjoy torturing other animals for fun, So you can say that torture is natural, but natural=/=good.

 

And then there's the other point...which is...you're pretty much trying to say its good by comparing it to animals, so, animals do it, ok, what are you trying to prove exactly? Some animals also eat their own shit, you dont see anyone saying that it's cool to eat shit because some animals do it.

So, maybe im missing something, or I dont know, im against the gay hatred and the anti gay right bigots, but this is just an argument i've never been able to sympathyze with.

lightleggy

the points you made indeed proves that torturing and killing are also natural but that doesn't make them any moral. the whole point of this counter argument is also to prove the nauralistic of homosexuality not to moralize it.

The real question is, why do people even care?

It's not gay people are going to rape you or anything.

"It is okay to be gay" does not need an argument, it should always be okay period.

The some animals are gay statement is not an argument for "it's okay to be gay", it is an evidence for the fact the homosexuality is a common occurrence in nature. 

The real question is, why do people even care?

It's not gay people are going to rape you or anything.

Gaming-Planet

[QUOTE="Gaming-Planet"]

The real question is, why do people even care?

It's not gay people are going to rape you or anything.

ghoklebutter

The point of saying that is that homosexuality occurs naturally in this world. Weather you think its good or bad isn't the point. Its just to show that being gay isn't a choice but rather just who they are naturally.

TC, your post reminds me of Praying Mantis mating. After they mate the female Mantis eats the male. lonewolf604

That argument was made in response to "homosexuality is not natural" which is a loaded argument.
The counterargument then can take down its premises or go along with it and then prove it wrong.
It's a perfect counterargument. It's not worse but even better because of the reasons you mentioned. Because even if you go along with the homophobe reasoning of 'if it isn't natural it is bad' it still wouldn't be correct. So it's like double ownage.
The idea that humans are like animals comes from the homophobes not from the people saying 'animals do it too' in response.

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

because assloads of people claim being gay is both a choice and unnatural. Animals being gay, over 1,500 documented species so far, blows this away.  The only excuses people have left to be anti-gay is religious reasons or "it's icky", both of which are unacceptable reasons

lightleggy

Because it brings up the argument of choice. Generally people who don't know what they are talking about say people choose to be gay and that its a sin and needs to be fixed because its unnatural etc. But I guess some people make the case that if it occurs elsewhere in nature that it isn't really a choice because most species of animals are capable of those kinds of concious decisions. 

VendettaRed07

Because Satan doesn't motivate animals to commit sin. If you are trying to make religious types understand this then claiming that animals do it to is a reasonable way to show how it happens in nature and it isn't some sort of unnatural evil motivation. I don't know how else to say it. Its not the best argument in the world but its not exactly easy to argue points to people who completely lack vision

Is there something wrong with the TC's head or is he just bored and trying to troll? He clearly writes in his own fvcking OP that the gay animal argument is a counter to the argument that homosexuals are "unnatural".

i lol every time an Athiest mentions how some animals are gay too :lol:

Animals are seen as creatures who abide by the will of nature. Humans are well established as the creatures who've manipulated and corrupted nature to our own personal ideals. Some people would argue that homosexuality is another product of humans manipulating or corrupting the will of nature. They use the argument that even animals do it as like I mentioned, animals are seen as the purest form of nature and act it out as it is seemingly intended. So if animals engage in acts of homosexuality, it would lead one to believe that it's not a creation of humanities corruptions and is in fact a normal act of nature.

because assloadswis3boi

The fact that homosexuality can be found among other animals does not, by itself, establish that homosexuality is morally acceptable. However, it definitely does show that the "It's unnatural" argument against the acceptance of homosexuality is bullshit.ghoklebutter

i lol every time an Athiest mentions how some animals are gay too :lol:

GrayF0X786

i lol every time a Muslim mentions the divinity of a man who had sex with a 9 year old :lol:

The fact that homosexuality can be found among other animals does not, by itself, establish that homosexuality is morally acceptable. However, it definitely does show that the "It's unnatural" argument against the acceptance of homosexuality is bullshit.ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="wis3boi"]

because assloads of people claim being gay is both a choice and unnatural. Animals being gay, over 1,500 documented species so far, blows this away.  The only excuses people have left to be anti-gay is religious reasons or "it's icky", both of which are unacceptable reasons

lightleggy

Because it brings up the argument of choice. Generally people who don't know what they are talking about say people choose to be gay and that its a sin and needs to be fixed because its unnatural etc. But I guess some people make the case that if it occurs elsewhere in nature that it isn't really a choice because most species of animals are capable of those kinds of concious decisions. 

VendettaRed07

You do realize that humans are animals too, advanced primates, right?

[QUOTE="GrayF0X786"]

i lol every time an Athiest mentions how some animals are gay too :lol:

HoolaHoopMan

i lol every time a Muslim mentions the divinity of a man who

So a lot of anti gay people say that being gay is bad because it aint natural, pro-gay answer with "some animals are gay"

lightleggy

You really aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer, are ya, sport?

If something happens in nature, it is, by definition, natural. Given that the homophobe's argument, using your exact words, is that it "ain't natural," then saying that it happens in nature is pretty much the perfect counter argument.

op is a mean name. Rich3232

No TC, they're saying it's natural (as opposed to the "it ain't natural" argument) because it happens in nature. I know you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer Leggy, but c'mon...

No TC, they're saying it's natural (as opposed to the "it ain't natural" argument) because it happens in nature. I know you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer Leggy, but c'mon...

worlock77

Dude, what the hell? I'M SUING! 

It's the equivalent to the anti-gay argument that being gay is unnatural.  They're both stupid.

It's the equivalent to the anti-gay argument that being gay is unnatural. They're both stupid.

lostrib

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

It's the equivalent to the anti-gay argument that being gay is unnatural. They're both stupid.

GrayF0X786

that's not the same as being unnatural, nor does it make it wrong

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

No TC, they're saying it's natural (as opposed to the "it ain't natural" argument) because it happens in nature. I know you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer Leggy, but c'mon...

LordQuorthon

Dude, what the hell? I'M SUING! 

?

TC, your post reminds me of Praying Mantis mating. After they mate the female Mantis eats the male. lonewolf604

[QUOTE="GrayF0X786"]

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

It's the equivalent to the anti-gay argument that being gay is unnatural. They're both stupid.

lostrib

that's not the same as being unnatural, nor does it make it wrong

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

[QUOTE="GrayF0X786"] for Humans it isn't the norm.

GrayF0X786

that's not the same as being unnatural, nor does it make it wrong

why?

[QUOTE="lostrib"]

It's the equivalent to the anti-gay argument that being gay is unnatural. They're both stupid.

GrayF0X786

?

worlock77

You really aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer, are ya, sport?

If something happens in nature, it is, by definition, natural. Given that the homophobe's argument, using your exact words, is that it "ain't natural," then saying that it happens in nature is pretty much the perfect counter argument.

LordQuorthon

No TC, they're saying it's natural (as opposed to the "it ain't natural" argument) because it happens in nature. I know you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer Leggy, but c'mon...

worlock77