Interesting read on mosque by ground zero.

[QUOTE="gaming25"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]You? Obviously not. If a devout Christian did, yeah. I would. No doubt about it. I would look into the faith and see if my trust is misplaced.
Something the muslims never even consider.
Oh wait, there are 1 billion people practicing the religion. Well if majority was always right, we would still have slavery wouldn't we?doom3lv

His point is that it is the the person's responsibility if they did those things, not the religion's.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="gaming25"]

His point is that it is the the person's responsibility if they did those things, not the religion's.

dk00111

Does it not condone violence on non muslims? Does it not explicitly say:
"Sanction is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged."
Which was incidentally quoted by Osama Bin Laden. How would you (I am assuming you are a musim) interpret that?doom3lv

I also think they should compromise and put it somewhere else. Just a couple questions need to be asked. Why exactly do they need to put it there? And why did they even do so KNOWING the current state of American society and especially hatred toward muslims? It seems as though they are simply doing it to provoke others and no other reason.

Espada12

I believe they wanted to bridge gaps and try to heal wounds. But everyone went crazy.

Also, I'd assume because they own that land and people seem to forget giant plots of land arn't free. They cost millions of dollars. When asking why they didn't move you should instead ask "Why didn't they tack on a fw dozen extra million dollars, completely redo the blueprints for the building, and move it someplace else to palcate people who think freedom of religion only applies to christianity?"

Does it not condone violence on non muslims? Does it not explicitly say:
"Sanction is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged."
Which was incidentally quoted by Osama Bin Laden. How would you (I am assuming you are a musim) interpret that?doom3lv

Guns don't kill, people do, so lets not regulate guns. Its the responsibility of the person, right? Its not the guns fault. So why regulate?
Same logic. Its obvious something about this religion is making some people go homicidal. So I am saying, take a closer look at it and the people who practice it. doom3lv

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

If we were a christian nation, we wouldn't allow abortions, allow divorce, allow people to work on the sabbath, allow people to practice other religions, allow non0christian places of worship to be built, allow pornography. Christianity would be taught as fact in schools as well.

Espada12

How many non-christians have been elected to the office with the people's knowledge of his lack of faith or his other faith?

I'm not sure if Jefferson was a christian.

But why does that make it a christian nation?

[QUOTE="gaming25"][QUOTE="doom3lv"]its good to know they arent even thinking about it or even feel mildly guilty.doom3lv

I believe you've already stated you're christian.

Do you question your "allegiance" to christianity whenever some christian bombs an abortion clinic or murders a gay man because "God wills it!"?

Absolutely.
I do not care whether Afganistan hates the US. I dont want anyone condoning 9/11. That's what I am trying to say.doom3lv

Does it not condone violence on non muslims? Does it not explicitly say:
"Sanction is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged."
Which was incidentally quoted by Osama Bin Laden. How would you (I am assuming you are a musim) interpret that?doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]Does it not condone violence on non muslims? Does it not explicitly say:
"Sanction is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged."
Which was incidentally quoted by Osama Bin Laden. How would you (I am assuming you are a musim) interpret that?krazy-blazer

Thats sounds more about war than terrorism to me. So @doom3lv it didnt prove your point.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]Absolutely.
I do not care whether Afganistan hates the US. I dont want anyone condoning 9/11. That's what I am trying to say.dk00111

Does it not condone violence on non muslims? Does it not explicitly say:
"Sanction is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged."
Which was incidentally quoted by Osama Bin Laden. How would you (I am assuming you are a musim) interpret that?doom3lv

I didnt prove my point? Are you saying some psycho might misinterpret that and decide to bomb a building?doom3lv

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/4/index.htm#39
Its all there. Of course, you are going to come back and tell me its all rubbish and poorly translated and that's totally not what it says, but there you go. doom3lv

Most peolpe translate the Qu'ran from arabic to english, which results in a ****load of mistakes and words out of context, because the structure of sentences in the Qu'ran is different to the main Arabic grammer it has a section for grammer alone.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="gaming25"] Why should they? What is there to be "guilty" about?Pixel-Pirate

I believe you've already stated you're christian.

Do you question your "allegiance" to christianity whenever some christian bombs an abortion clinic or murders a gay man because "God wills it!"?

[QUOTE="dk00111"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] Neither do I, but the way I see it, building a mosque near Ground Zero isn't condoning 9/11. The way I see it, by allowing them to build a mosque there, we're showing the world that 9/11 didn't affect America's toleration and equality, and that the enemy isn't Islam, it's the terrorists. However, with all of the backlash against the mosque, I'm not sure that's the case anymore. [QUOTE="doom3lv"]Does it not condone violence on non muslims? Does it not explicitly say:
"Sanction is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged."
Which was incidentally quoted by Osama Bin Laden. How would you (I am assuming you are a musim) interpret that?doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/4/index.htm#39
Its all there. Of course, you are going to come back and tell me its all rubbish and poorly translated and that's totally not what it says, but there you go. krazy-blazer

Most peolpe translate the Qu'ran from arabic to english, which results in a ****load of mistakes and words out of context, because the structure of sentences in the Qu'ran is different to the main Arabic grammer it has a section for grammer alone.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] Let me put it this way. If I am a muslim and 9/11 happened someone claimed they did it in the name of true islam, I would take a closer look at islam and possibly question my allegiance to that religion.
muslims seem to believe that their religion is above and beyond criticism.
it isn't.doom3lv

I believe you've already stated you're christian.

Do you question your "allegiance" to christianity whenever some christian bombs an abortion clinic or murders a gay man because "God wills it!"?

Does it happen as often as "muslims" attacking the US? in the last one year I can name 3 that happened. All prevented, fortunately.
Name some attacks that christians committed on America. WBC jokers holding god hates **** signs dont count. doom3lv

Tens of thousands of Muslims have been massacred by Christians in places like Nigeria. That alone vastly eclipses what happened on 9/11 in terms of death count.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]Does it happen as often as "muslims" attacking the US? in the last one year I can name 3 that happened. All prevented, fortunately.
Name some attacks that christians committed on America. WBC jokers holding god hates **** signs dont count. GabuEx

Tens of thousands of Muslims have been massacred by Christians in places like Nigeria. That alone vastly eclipses what happened on 9/11 in terms of death count.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

I believe you've already stated you're christian.

Do you question your "allegiance" to christianity whenever some christian bombs an abortion clinic or murders a gay man because "God wills it!"?

krazy-blazer

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]Does it happen as often as "muslims" attacking the US? in the last one year I can name 3 that happened. All prevented, fortunately.
Name some attacks that christians committed on America. WBC jokers holding god hates **** signs dont count. doom3lv

Tens of thousands of Muslims have been massacred by Christians in places like Nigeria. That alone vastly eclipses what happened on 9/11 in terms of death count.

Um, my point is that Christians have and do murder people in the name of their religion just as Muslims have and do. Or does it not count if their actions weren't on American soil?

Honestly, you ask a question and then you ask what my point is when I answer it?

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Tens of thousands of Muslims have been massacred by Christians in places like Nigeria. That alone vastly eclipses what happened on 9/11 in terms of death count.

GabuEx

Um, my point is that Christians have and do murder people in the name of their religion just as Muslims have and do. Or does it not count if their actions weren't on American soil?

Honestly, you ask a question and then you ask what my point is when I answer it?

[QUOTE="krazy-blazer"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/4/index.htm#39
Its all there. Of course, you are going to come back and tell me its all rubbish and poorly translated and that's totally not what it says, but there you go. doom3lv

Most peolpe translate the Qu'ran from arabic to english, which results in a ****load of mistakes and words out of context, because the structure of sentences in the Qu'ran is different to the main Arabic grammer it has a section for grammer alone.

[QUOTE="krazy-blazer"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/4/index.htm#39
Its all there. Of course, you are going to come back and tell me its all rubbish and poorly translated and that's totally not what it says, but there you go. doom3lv

Most peolpe translate the Qu'ran from arabic to english, which results in a ****load of mistakes and words out of context, because the structure of sentences in the Qu'ran is different to the main Arabic grammer it has a section for grammer alone.

2.every religion considers itself superior or else why would you be in the religion? and yes if other religions don't harm Islam it doesn't have a problem.

3.Infidels means non-Muslims. or at least in Arabic.

4.Yes, prophet Mohammad allowed Muslims if they wanted to become idolators, after agreeing to a peace treaty, even though no one did. the Islam condemns apostasy but does not have laws against it. according to the Qu'ran explanations and myself being a Qu'ran reader and according to modern scholars such as Wael Hallaq.

The actions of Christians certainly count, but here in America, that is not the case. However, you have naturalized citizens from Pakistan trying to bomb places in NYC. You dont see someone from some church doing the same. So I am concerned about the spread of islam in America. doom3lv

There are around 3-4 million Muslims living in America today. You don't think that they might have, you know, done something about it if they hate America and agree with Osama bin Laden?

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="krazy-blazer"] %50 of the translations are like that...and out of context, because you just said that doesn't make them properly translated.

Most peolpe translate the Qu'ran from arabic to english, which results in a ****load of mistakes and words out of context, because the structure of sentences in the Qu'ran is different to the main Arabic grammer it has a section for grammer alone.

krazy-blazer

2.every religion considers itself superior or else why would you be in the religion? and yes if other religions don't harm Islam it doesn't have a problem.

3.Infidels means non-Muslims. or at least in Arabic.

4.Yes, prophet Mohammad allowed Muslims if they wanted to become idolators, after agreeing to a peace treaty, even though no one did. the Islam condemns apostasy but does not have laws against it. according to the Qu'ran explanations and myself being a Qu'ran reader and according to modern scholars such as Wael Hallaq.

This is a ridiculous debate, they should be able to make it a church of whatever religion.USA F@%#YEAH! FTW !

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]The actions of Christians certainly count, but here in America, that is not the case. However, you have naturalized citizens from Pakistan trying to bomb places in NYC. You dont see someone from some church doing the same. So I am concerned about the spread of islam in America. GabuEx

There are around 3-4 million Muslims living in America today. You don't think that they might have, you know, done something about it if they hate America and agree with Osama bin Laden?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]The actions of Christians certainly count, but here in America, that is not the case. However, you have naturalized citizens from Pakistan trying to bomb places in NYC. You dont see someone from some church doing the same. So I am concerned about the spread of islam in America. doom3lv

There are around 3-4 million Muslims living in America today. You don't think that they might have, you know, done something about it if they hate America and agree with Osama bin Laden?

[QUOTE="krazy-blazer"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] OK, so let me get this straight once and for all.
1. muslim women have choice in their lives. they can chose to do whatever they want, wear whatever they want but our their absolute free will chose to wear burkas
2. muslims have absolutely no problems with any other religions and do not consider themselves superior
3. the koran does not speak of non muslims as infidels
4, its OK for a muslims person to give up their faith and take up another religion and this is tolerated
are all those correct? if the said muslim person is not living in the US and cannot seek protection under law, you are telling me, women still have rights according to islam?doom3lv

2.every religion considers itself superior or else why would you be in the religion? and yes if other religions don't harm Islam it doesn't have a problem.

3.Infidels means non-Muslims. or at least in Arabic.

4.Yes, prophet Mohammad allowed Muslims if they wanted to become idolators, after agreeing to a peace treaty, even though no one did. the Islam condemns apostasy but does not have laws against it. according to the Qu'ran explanations and myself being a Qu'ran reader and according to modern scholars such as Wael Hallaq.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="krazy-blazer"] 1.Muslims have choice in their lives yes, they don't have to wear the burkha, they have to wear hijab but this does not mean she will go to hell if she doesn't.

2.every religion considers itself superior or else why would you be in the religion? and yes if other religions don't harm Islam it doesn't have a problem.

3.Infidels means non-Muslims. or at least in Arabic.

4.Yes, prophet Mohammad allowed Muslims if they wanted to become idolators, after agreeing to a peace treaty, even though no one did. the Islam condemns apostasy but does not have laws against it. according to the Qu'ran explanations and myself being a Qu'ran reader and according to modern scholars such as Wael Hallaq.

krazy-blazer

[QUOTE="krazy-blazer"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]
A woman cannot go out without her head covered, is that right? Its the law isnt it? But a man can. Right? According to islam law. Is that correct?doom3lv

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] Let me put it this way. If I am a muslim and 9/11 happened someone claimed they did it in the name of true islam, I would take a closer look at islam and possibly question my allegiance to that religion.
muslims seem to believe that their religion is above and beyond criticism.
it isn't.doom3lv

I believe you've already stated you're christian.

Do you question your "allegiance" to christianity whenever some christian bombs an abortion clinic or murders a gay man because "God wills it!"?

Alot of these attacks seem to of been done by christian groups or professed born again christians. Link

And you'll most likely argue that it isn't the same. However bombing a building in an attempt to use fear to persuade others is indeed terrorism.

And no, you cannot name 3 in the past year that happened. As you stated, all were prevented. You can't prevent something that has already happened. Thats an oxymoron.

[QUOTE="krazy-blazer"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] Does it happen as often as "muslims" attacking the US? in the last one year I can name 3 that happened. All prevented, fortunately.
Name some attacks that christians committed on America. WBC jokers holding god hates **** signs dont count. doom3lv

Um....yes you do still see them around.

They arn't outlawed. KKK is protected by free speech and are still in operation.

The more I think about it, the more I think it's symbollically important to have a mosque built next to the WTC disaster site.

Moreover, reading this thread made my soul hurt. I desperately hope that some of the views here are not widespread within America.

The actions of Christians certainly count, but here in America, that is not the case. However, you have naturalized citizens from Pakistan trying to bomb places in NYC. You dont see someone from some church doing the same. So I am concerned about the spread of islam in America. doom3lv

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]The actions of Christians certainly count, but here in America, that is not the case. However, you have naturalized citizens from Pakistan trying to bomb places in NYC. You dont see someone from some church doing the same. So I am concerned about the spread of islam in America. doom3lv

There are around 3-4 million Muslims living in America today. You don't think that they might have, you know, done something about it if they hate America and agree with Osama bin Laden?

All four million Muslims in America collectively got together, and their best plan was to blow up a car?

They must be awfully ****ty at thinking big if that's the best they've got.

For tonight, this is all I have to say:
http://afghanistan.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/18/shaming-her-in-laws-costs-19-year-old-her-nose-ears/
I had tears in my eyes as I read the story.
Excerpt from the koran:
4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Translation:
Men are in charge of women, because Allah made men to be better than women. Women must obey men, and if they refuse they must be punished. Refuse to have sex with them and beat them into submission (Islam).
I implore you people of America. dont be so tolerant that you start to tolerate cruelty. No matter what religion, this is not OK. doom3lv

They [wives] are your garments and you [husbands] are their garments....

[al-Baqarah 2.187]

And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.

[al-Rum 30:21]

It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might dwell with her (in love)..

[al-A'raf 7.189]

(He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves..

[al Shura 42:11]

There are other quotes for from the Surah's but let me give you some parts from the Hadith's.

"The best among you is the one who is best to his family, and I am the best among you to his family"

"The most perfect believers are the best in conduct and the best of you are those who are best to their wives"

"Many women have come to the family of Muhammad complaining about their husbands... Those husbands are not the best of you"3 "By assisting your wives in their household duties, you will receive the reward of sadaqah (charity)"

'A believer must not hate a believing woman; if he dislikes one of her characteristics, he should be pleased with another"

"When a woman breast feeds, for every gulp of milk she will receive a reward as if she had granted life to being, and when she weans her child, the angels pat her on the hack saying, 'Congratulations! All your past sins have been forgiven, now start all over again"

"O women! Remember that the pious among you will enter Jannah (Heaven) before the pious men"

"During pregnancy until the time of childbirth, and until the end of the suckling period, a woman earns reward similar to that of the person who is guarding the borders of Islam"

.....

Yes it is true there are quotes like the one you said. but you seem to mistake that. there are Imam's like Yusuf Ali and other scholars. the site i found your verse. reads it like this.

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means..."

[al-Nisa' 4.34] (This is only part of the verse i know that, go to the bottom link if you want some more explanations)

and i'll just take a insert from local Muslim website quoting

"Abdullah ibn Abbas , a companion of the Prophet ah, mentioned, with reference to the ayah quoted above, that as men have been granted such a noble position by Allah, they should exercise greater patience. If there is some deficiency on a wife's part, then the husband's position demands that he should accommodate her weaknesses, maintain a patient attitude, and establish consistency in the fulfillment of his rights. In short, marriage is intended to bring mutual benefits to both partners.

A renowned Asian scholar, Hazrat Hakim Akhtar saheb states: "the rights of women have been mentioned before those of men in this verse because man, due to his inherent power and strength, easily obtains his rights from the woman. Thus Allah placed more emphasis upon the rights of women who cannot forcibly obtain their rights".The second point that may be noted from this ayah is that the man should take the initiative in fulfilling his responsibilities, because the Qur'an has mentioned women's rights first. The "degree above" cannot, and must not, be taken to imply male superiority of worth. What it does imply is a greater liability and responsibility, which means that men will be subjected to greater questioning in the Hereafter regarding the treatment of their wives and families. This is hardly what could be described as an enviable position, and some may even consider it "inferior"! The degree in question is nothing more than a means of assuring the maintenance of women, as and when it is necessary. "

http://www.islamiska.org/e/chap3.htm

or you could look at this site "The Feminist Sexual Ethics Project : Special Focus : Islam"

I mean if we wanna play the gender inequality card. i could flash you a New Testament verse 1 Corinthians 14:34 (comes to mind). I mean it was not too long ago that parents would abandon their daughters for having a child out of wedlock here in the United States (meanwhile at the same time there were no girl schools in Saudi..). Now your gonna rake us over the coals because - and i'm gonna be honost here - the Arab world, and the third world by extension hasn't cought to USA/Europe 2010?

Like i said it's a lot less to do with the Quran and a lot more to do with patriachal paternalistic society of the Arab world (and by extension the Asia I.E. The East) on why the treatment of women is the way it is in the Arab world. and you can't really use a simple black brush either across the entire region, Saudi Arabia is as conservative as it gets in the Arab World. Kuwait's parliment recently elected 4 women to it, the first Saudi woman won their first olympic medal (at the Youth Olympics) recently. Things are changing, but you can't expect the Arab world to suddenly go lock step with the West. Change happens in ebbs and flows, and it's a struggle (Jihad.. har har) to get people to change their ways.

Hope this enlightened you a bit. but i'll leave with this (this is perhaps my favorite passage in the Quran)

"Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)." Quran 8:53

or as i understand it in plain english.

"God does not change what is in a people unless they themselves decide to change. God is Hearer, Omniscient."

I still don't see why it can't be built there. Hitler wasn't necessarily a Catholic... and how close was this convent to Auschwitz? Was it in a densely populated megalopolis that had various people from all walks of life passing one another on the street? I highly doubt it. This community centre is just that, a community centre. I think people calling it a "mosque" are completely misrepresenting what it actually is.

It seems to me this is just a debate for the sake of inciting hatred towards Muslims and Islam. There are no legitmate reasons NOT to build it there. People who think its "insensitive" need to grow up. This community centre (if a genuine cultural outreach on behalf of the Muslims in America) can only do GOOD for not only the city, but the entire country. People in America only seem to have problems for things when its convenient for them to hate on something that is popular to hate on.

I'm pretty sure there were some Muslim families who lost people during 9/11 too... and I don't think they're speaking out against this community centre because its "insensitive."

I still don't see why it can't be built there. Hitler wasn't necessarily a Catholic... and how close was this convent to Auschwitz? Was it in a densely populated megalopolis that had various people from all walks of life passing one another on the street? I highly doubt it. This community centre is just that, a community centre. I think people calling it a "mosque" are completely misrepresenting what it actually is.

It seems to me this is just a debate for the sake of inciting hatred towards Muslims and Islam. There are no legitmate reasons NOT to build it there. People who think its "insensitive" need to grow up. This community centre (if a genuine cultural outreach on behalf of the Muslims in America) can only do GOOD for not only the city, but the entire country. People in America only seem to have problems for things when its convenient for them to hate on something that is popular to hate on.

I'm pretty sure there were some Muslim families who lost people during 9/11 too... and I don't think they're speaking out against this community centre because its "insensitive."

foxhound_fox

Mosques represent Islam and its doctinres, icnluding Jihad.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

I still don't see why it can't be built there. Hitler wasn't necessarily a Catholic... and how close was this convent to Auschwitz? Was it in a densely populated megalopolis that had various people from all walks of life passing one another on the street? I highly doubt it. This community centre is just that, a community centre. I think people calling it a "mosque" are completely misrepresenting what it actually is.

It seems to me this is just a debate for the sake of inciting hatred towards Muslims and Islam. There are no legitmate reasons NOT to build it there. People who think its "insensitive" need to grow up. This community centre (if a genuine cultural outreach on behalf of the Muslims in America) can only do GOOD for not only the city, but the entire country. People in America only seem to have problems for things when its convenient for them to hate on something that is popular to hate on.

I'm pretty sure there were some Muslim families who lost people during 9/11 too... and I don't think they're speaking out against this community centre because its "insensitive."

p2250

Jihad didnt "justify" the 9/11 attacks.

[QUOTE="p2250"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

I still don't see why it can't be built there. Hitler wasn't necessarily a Catholic... and how close was this convent to Auschwitz? Was it in a densely populated megalopolis that had various people from all walks of life passing one another on the street? I highly doubt it. This community centre is just that, a community centre. I think people calling it a "mosque" are completely misrepresenting what it actually is.

It seems to me this is just a debate for the sake of inciting hatred towards Muslims and Islam. There are no legitmate reasons NOT to build it there. People who think its "insensitive" need to grow up. This community centre (if a genuine cultural outreach on behalf of the Muslims in America) can only do GOOD for not only the city, but the entire country. People in America only seem to have problems for things when its convenient for them to hate on something that is popular to hate on.

I'm pretty sure there were some Muslim families who lost people during 9/11 too... and I don't think they're speaking out against this community centre because its "insensitive."

gaming25

Jihad didnt "justify" the 9/11 attacks.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

I still don't see why it can't be built there. Hitler wasn't necessarily a Catholic... and how close was this convent to Auschwitz? Was it in a densely populated megalopolis that had various people from all walks of life passing one another on the street? I highly doubt it. This community centre is just that, a community centre. I think people calling it a "mosque" are completely misrepresenting what it actually is.

It seems to me this is just a debate for the sake of inciting hatred towards Muslims and Islam. There are no legitmate reasons NOT to build it there. People who think its "insensitive" need to grow up. This community centre (if a genuine cultural outreach on behalf of the Muslims in America) can only do GOOD for not only the city, but the entire country. People in America only seem to have problems for things when its convenient for them to hate on something that is popular to hate on.

I'm pretty sure there were some Muslim families who lost people during 9/11 too... and I don't think they're speaking out against this community centre because its "insensitive."

p2250

Mosques represent Islam and its doctinres, icnluding Jihad.

and the physical Jihad is meant as a purely defensive measure

"To those against whom war is made, permission is given [to defend themselves], because they are wronged - and verily, Allah is Most Powerful to give them victory." (22:39)

and Jihad is not simply physical violence. there is the concept of a higher and lesser jihad. the higher being to improve ones own character and person (the inner struggle), and the lesser is the physical.. Not to mention...

let me just start with this. Car bombs, suicide bombers, and the attacks of 9/11 (suicide by ramming airplanes full of passengers) all did one thing. they committed suicide. Explain to me - because at my last check, suicide was a one way ticket to Hell in Islam. not that different from Christianity's approach on the topic of suicide. I mean another quotes would be

(2:195) You shall spend in the cause of GOD; do not throw yourselves with your own hands into destruction. You shall be charitable; GOD loves the charitable.

(4:29) O you who believe, do not consume each others' properties illicitly - only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. You shall not kill yourselves. GOD is Merciful towards you.

(4:30) Anyone who commits these transgressions, maliciously and deliberately, we will condemn him to Hell. This is easy for GOD to do. so tell me where

does this justification to use innocents to attack people while in the act sealing your own death?

[QUOTE="p2250"]

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]

I still don't see why it can't be built there. Hitler wasn't necessarily a Catholic... and how close was this convent to Auschwitz? Was it in a densely populated megalopolis that had various people from all walks of life passing one another on the street? I highly doubt it. This community centre is just that, a community centre. I think people calling it a "mosque" are completely misrepresenting what it actually is.

It seems to me this is just a debate for the sake of inciting hatred towards Muslims and Islam. There are no legitmate reasons NOT to build it there. People who think its "insensitive" need to grow up. This community centre (if a genuine cultural outreach on behalf of the Muslims in America) can only do GOOD for not only the city, but the entire country. People in America only seem to have problems for things when its convenient for them to hate on something that is popular to hate on.

I'm pretty sure there were some Muslim families who lost people during 9/11 too... and I don't think they're speaking out against this community centre because its "insensitive."

SaudiFury

Mosques represent Islam and its doctinres, icnluding Jihad.

and the physical Jihad is meant as a purely defensive measure

"To those against whom war is made, permission is given [to defend themselves], because they are wronged - and verily, Allah is Most Powerful to give them victory." (22:39)

and Jihad is not simply physical violence. there is the concept of a higher and lesser jihad. the higher being to improve ones own character and person (the inner struggle), and the lesser is the physical.. Not to mention...

let me just start with this. Car bombs, suicide bombers, and the attacks of 9/11 (suicide by ramming airplanes full of passengers) all did one thing. they committed suicide. Explain to me - because at my last check, suicide was a one way ticket to Hell in Islam. not that different from Christianity's approach on the topic of suicide. I mean another quotes would be

(2:195) You shall spend in the cause of GOD; do not throw yourselves with your own hands into destruction. You shall be charitable; GOD loves the charitable.

(4:29) O you who believe, do not consume each others' properties illicitly - only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. You shall not kill yourselves. GOD is Merciful towards you.

(4:30) Anyone who commits these transgressions, maliciously and deliberately, we will condemn him to Hell. This is easy for GOD to do. so tell me where

does this justification to use innocents to attack people while in the act sealing your own death?