is religion the main reason women today are second class?

[QUOTE="kraychik"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

...It certainly doesn't affect men - that is, men who leave most of the child-rearing and housekeeping to their partners, even if their partners also have careers. And a lot of families in America are like that.

You also fail to notice that many women (not all) face discrimination in regards to promotion - and I'm not just talking about mothers. Sexism, as I have said, is still pervasive, And it has real consequences.

BranKetra

[QUOTE="kraychik"][QUOTE="GazaAli"]Fvck feminism.GazaAli

There are plenty of matriarchal societies (see Iroquois), so it's definitely not a universal social norm. Guess which societies treat women as second class? Then look at the influence of religion in them.

One of the reasons I'm sure plus the fact language in of itself is somewhat sexist is another reason.

I don't think religion CAUSED people to discriminate against women (the actual cause would probably be the fact that pre-industrial societies had to adopt specialized gender roles to function properly), but I would say it reinforces such social norms because religion is an incredibly effective way to preserve traditions, hence it is at least partly responsible for the continued existence of misogyny even after its original utility had long since passed.

My opinion on this topic is that TC doesn't know **** TC name me one time when you have personally seen woman being treated as second class. And what other "underdeveloped countries" are you talking about where they treat woman as second class, since you seem to have done extensive research on this topic due to your well researched OP. Name me these countries, these religions, cultures and social structures as well as examples because they how ur making it seem is like its something thats out of control which is not.

[QUOTE="Optical_Order"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] But that's just ******** propaganda! It can't possibly be true.kraychik

I know there is definitely some sexism involved in that, but there is also the fact that some men can simply outwork their female counterparts at their job.

I'd say you're crazy if you don't think there isn't some sexism involved in the workforce. It goes both ways. It's not just women. The divorce/child custody/rape/sexual assault case proceedings against men are sickening sometimes.

There are double standards, hypocrisy, and sexism up the wazoo on both sides. That being said, I'd say it's a pretty nonissue when it comes to women's wages. They generally get paid equally and for their worth.

I wouldn't say it's the "main" reason, but there is no doubt that patriachal religions have contributed to the oppression of women throughout history. I don't see how anybody can deny that.

All I got to say is you obviously been indoctrinated by public schools, they do not know what they are talking about. they are just telling you what they are being told to say by the government. Second class, are you kidding me? Lets get back to reality, men are just simply more capable workers, its not a bad thing. sure women do not have the same chance at making money, DUUUHHHH!! They can not do physical tasks nearly as well, so get over it. But men like women for who they are, that is why we marry and provide support. This whole "womenz be second class," nonsense is a complete generalization and mischaracterization, if they were, men would just ditch them whenever they felt like it.

edit: I remember this type of stuff being taught in schools, I got in the real world and realised it was a load of crap!

men are just simply more capable workers,mahlasor

[QUOTE="mahlasor"]men are just simply more capable workers,MrPraline

:lol:

Anyway, mahlasor=idiot.

Women seem to have their advantages over men in certain countries in the Western Hemisphere. For example, a woman always gets the benefit of the doubt in cases of domestic violence, and in cases of divorce they almost always get at least 50% of the male's estate.

[QUOTE="mahlasor"]men are just simply more capable workers,MrPraline

lol anti-feminists

always an interesting (and terrible) bunch

[QUOTE="kraychik"][QUOTE="Optical_Order"]

I know there is definitely some sexism involved in that, but there is also the fact that some men can simply outwork their female counterparts at their job.

Optical_Order

I'd say you're crazy if you don't think there isn't some sexism involved in the workforce. It goes both ways. It's not just women. The divorce/child custody/rape/sexual assault case proceedings against men are sickening sometimes.

There are double standards, hypocrisy, and sexism up the wazoo on both sides. That being said, I'd say it's a pretty nonissue when it comes to women's wages. They generally get paid equally and for their worth.

Women seem to have their advantages over men in certain countries in the Western Hemisphere. For example, a woman always gets the benefit of the doubt in cases of domestic violence, and in cases of divorce they almost always get at least 50% of the male's estate.

BluRayHiDef

I would say it is the main reason for the institutionalization of sexism. -Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]I would say it is the main reason for the institutionalization of sexism. alexside1

@Alex: sorry, not sure I follow. MrPraline

[QUOTE="MrPraline"][QUOTE="mahlasor"]men are just simply more capable workers,GreySeal9

:lol:

Anyway, mahlasor=idiot.

I think the idiot is you, you take one statement to generalise my whole post. So go fvck yourself.

lol anti-feminists

always an interesting (and terrible) bunch

ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

lol anti-feminists

always an interesting (and terrible) bunch

GazaAli

You're prehistoric in your thinking....

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

lol anti-feminists

always an interesting (and terrible) bunch

GazaAli

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="MrPraline"] Strength isn't everything, though. I prefer a soft woman's touch, myself. Quite fond of the fairer sex. But if you swing the other way, who am I to judge? mahlasor

:lol:

Anyway, mahlasor=idiot.

I think the idiot is you, you take one statement to generalise my whole post. So go fvck yourself.

While religion has not helped females, their disadvantages in society are not entirely due to religion. Look at Soviet Russia in the 20th century, it was an unequal society in terms of gender and it promoted atheism. It is not the main reason, only one of the many reasons..

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

lol anti-feminists

always an interesting (and terrible) bunch

GazaAli

I think the main reason is that women act more submissive than men. Whether religion is there or not, and alot of it is biological. So women will always be the lesser of the two sexes.

Feminazis suck btw.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

lol anti-feminists

always an interesting (and terrible) bunch

ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="GazaAli"] I respect females to the fullest and treat them equally. But the concept of the 21st century's feminism is crap. When you are in a relationship, in order to satisfy a woman's fantasies of feminism, you have to let the b!tch goes around do whatever the fvck she wants, or else you are not being progressive.TopTierHustler

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="GazaAli"] I respect females to the fullest and treat them equally. But the concept of the 21st century's feminism is crap. When you are in a relationship, in order to satisfy a woman's fantasies of feminism, you have to let the b!tch goes around do whatever the fvck she wants, or else you are not being progressive.TopTierHustler

I'd say it's played a large part.

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Feminism isn't about letting women walk over you. It's about letting them walk with you hand-in-hand. /cheesyMrPraline

I find that offensive

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Feminism isn't about letting women walk over you. It's about letting them walk with you hand-in-hand. /cheesyghoklebutter

I think most feminists want "some" of the same treatments as men. They want equal pay, to be looked at as equal, reproductive rights, but also want special treatments in the ways I've mentioned.

As long as the things I've mentioned are true, imo, women don't deserve equal treatment.

I couldn't think of any other reason that wouldn't be in some way traced back to religion.Zeviander

coming from you thats not much of a shock you go out your way to be an atheist.

[QUOTE="Zeviander"]I couldn't think of any other reason that wouldn't be in some way traced back to religion.dontshackzmii

coming from you thats not much of a shock you go out your way to be an atheist.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Why do feminists still expect men to pay for dinner then?

TopTierHustler

I think most feminists want "some" of the same treatments as men. They want equal pay, to be looked at as equal, reproductive rights, but also want special treatments in the ways I've mentioned.

As long as the things I've mentioned are true, imo, women don't deserve equal treatment.

You clearly haven't read a lot of feminist theory, then. Most feminists oppose chivalrous social norms because they reinforce patriarchal customs. That includes men being obligated to pay for dinner and hold doors open for women just because they're men (of course, doing those same things just out of courtesy is almost never protested against). As for the breast cancer thing, it would be hasty to conclude that that's a result of sexism. It's possible, but I need further evidence.

Feminists don't want just "some" of the same treatments as men. They want as many as possible. Otherwise, they would be misandrists and not feminists. Misandrists are the ones seeking special treatment, not feminists. The latter just want to be respected as individuals.

Don't blame religion. Men are physically stronger, they have more responsibilities and burdens. Back in the old days, strenght was evrything. The biggest and strongest just did whatever they wanted. Modern society places more value on intellligence.

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

lol anti-feminists

always an interesting (and terrible) bunch

MrPraline

Some religious beliefs enforce gender discrimination and some religious beliefs remove gender discrimination. Personally, however, I am of the belief that Christianity is one belief that ought to remove such discrimination. A simple point of evidence would be the notion that more females have been Christians across both history and geography than males. This point is extremely true everywhere from the Early Church to modern day China.mindstorm

That only screws up marriages when one spouse does more [...] child-rearing than the other. .ghoklebutter