is religion the main reason women today are second class?

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]] Your whole religion is one, yes. Philokalia

Do you even know what non sequitur is?

Obviously you don't based on the fact that you called I4dak47's post a non-sequitir.

Irrelevant.

GreySeal9

Completely relevent as it demonstrates that Christinaity has a place in the intellectual world which can hadly be denied either in the modern acadamy or the history

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] It is. Also, The poster was in response to you claiming that David's ideas are not as absurd as yours. Philokalia

Appeal to ridicule isn't a good responce. That being said I doubt you could intellectually deal with Christianity other than mocking it baselessly.

Christians are idiots who believe in fairytales. I especially dislike them due to their lack of tolerance and respect for people with different beliefs.

Palantas

Like your intolerance of Christians saying they are idiots? You are generalising and entire people who believe in something and callin them idiots. It would be like me saying every atheist is an idiot based off what Richard Dawkins says. But how ironic that you would condemn Christians as being Idiots and lacking tolerance and yet call them idiots in the same breath. I can't make this sort of stuff up.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Irrelevant.

Philokalia

Completely relevent as it demonstrates that Christinaity has a place in the intellectual world which can hadly be denied either in the modern acadamy or the history

Of course it has a place. Millions upon millions of Christians in the world make it relevant. But because there are millions and millions of people of other religious, spiritual, and nonreligious beliefs that trying to impost a Christian moral on everyone simply doesn't work anymore.

Arguing from a Christian viewpoint without trying to see things from the other side is also pretty pointless.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Irrelevant.

Philokalia

Completely relevent as it demonstrates that Christinaity has a place in the intellectual world which can hadly be denied either in the modern acadamy or the history

Still irrelevant. The fact that something has a place in the intellectual world doesn't inherently make it not ridiculous.

Bro, there is nothing intellectual about Christianity. I mock it and fundies like you because you're all idiots and you deserve the ridicule. l4dak47

Exactly you mock it out of an attempt to actually deal with it in an intellectual manner. But I find it offensive that you should compare me to a fundamentalist Christian. I am not protestant and nor do I have my roots within that movement and nor does the Orhtodox church.

[QUOTE="I"]

Christians are idiots who believe in fairytales. I especially dislike them due to their lack of tolerance and respect for people with different beliefs.

Philokalia

Like your intolerance of Christians saying they are idiots?

Yep. You got my sarcasm.

Still irrelevant. The fact that something has a place in the intellectual world doesn't inherently make it not ridiculous.

GreySeal9

Completely relevent, in suggesting that Christinaity has no intellectual integrity behind it one has to ignore the history and the arguments made by Christians themselves. Think for a second.

I am not protestant and nor do I have my roots within that movement and nor does the Orhtodox church.Philokalia

Of course it has a place. Millions upon millions of Christians in the world make it relevant. But because there are millions and millions of people of other religious, spiritual, and nonreligious beliefs that trying to impost a Christian moral on everyone simply doesn't work anymore.

Arguing from a Christian viewpoint without trying to see things from the other side is also pretty pointless.

jimkabrhel

Okay? When did I try to say other view points should be ignored? They should be examined and challanged in the same way Christianity should be, along with any other philosophy.

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

Appeal to ridicule isn't a good responce. That being said I doubt you could intellectually deal with Christianity other than mocking it baselessly.

Palantas

Christians are idiots who believe in fairytales. I especially dislike them due to their lack of tolerance and respect for people with different beliefs.

teh irony!

Some religion, but not "religion" in general.

It's not like the whole concept of religion or all religions are doing so, it is just the effect of a few religions in those areas.
And it isn't just religion that cause that, it can be attributed to lots of things.

So short answer is no.

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]I am not protestant and nor do I have my roots within that movement and nor does the Orhtodox church.Nuck81

And you are bahai? Do you think women should have a place on the universal council of Justice?

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] Bro, there is nothing intellectual about Christianity. I mock it and fundies like you because you're all idiots and you deserve the ridicule. Philokalia

Exactly you mock it out of an attempt to actually deal with it in an intellectual manner. But I find it offensive that you should compare me to a fundamentalist Christian. I am not protestant and nor do I have my roots within that movement and nor does the Orhtodox church.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Still irrelevant. The fact that something has a place in the intellectual world doesn't inherently make it not ridiculous.

Philokalia

Completely relevent, in suggesting that Christinaity has no intellectual integrity behind it one has to ignore the history and the arguments made by Christians themselves. Think for a second.

Still irrelevant. One can acknowlege the history and can also hear all the arguments behind Christianity and still find it ridiculous.

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

Appeal to ridicule isn't a good responce. That being said I doubt you could intellectually deal with Christianity other than mocking it baselessly.

Palantas

Christians are idiots who believe in fairytales. I especially dislike them due to their lack of tolerance and respect for people with different beliefs.

You're not intelligent. I don't consider you intelligent. Clearly, many other people here don't and it's the reason why I don't deal with you in a "intellectual" way. I don't care which brand of insane you are. You all represent the same thing to me. l4dak47

And you are nothing but a mocker, on the same level as richard dawkins. You can't deal with any argument and instead like most angry internet atheists you feel compelled to shout out that all Christians are idiots. You suggest that all religion is based on greed or encourages such beliefs. When the examples of the saints would go against that. There is something to be said about people wh would abuse their powers in the church or in any religion (unless that religion promotes the things you are speaking about, I can't judge all religions because I don;t know all religions) but what you are saying would put every single person in that camp.

Still irrelevant. One can acknowlege the history and can also hear all the arguments behind Christianity and still find it ridiculous.

GreySeal9

ONe cannot say however Christianity is at its core is one of complete irrationality, greed and corruption which is my point.

[QUOTE="Philokalia"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] Bro, there is nothing intellectual about Christianity. I mock it and fundies like you because you're all idiots and you deserve the ridicule. l4dak47

Exactly you mock it out of an attempt to actually deal with it in an intellectual manner. But I find it offensive that you should compare me to a fundamentalist Christian. I am not protestant and nor do I have my roots within that movement and nor does the Orhtodox church.

ONe cannot say however Christianity is at its core is one of complete irrationality, greed and corruption which is my point.

Philokalia

That depends on your assumptions.

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="Philokalia"]I am not protestant and nor do I have my roots within that movement and nor does the Orhtodox church.Philokalia

And you are bahai? Do you think women should have a place on the universal council of Justice?

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]You're not intelligent. I don't consider you intelligent. Clearly, many other people here don't and it's the reason why I don't deal with you in a "intellectual" way. I don't care which brand of insane you are. You all represent the same thing to me. Philokalia

And you are nothing but a mocker, on the same level as richard dawkins. You can't deal with any argument and instead like most angry internet atheists you feel compelled to shout out that all Christians are idiots. You suggest that all religion is based on greed or encourages such beliefs. When the examples of the saints would go against that. There is something to be said about people wh would abuse their powers in the church or in any religion (unless that religion promotes the things you are speaking about, I can't judge all religions because I don;t know all religions) but what you are saying would put every single person in that camp.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Philokalia"]

Exactly you mock it out of an attempt to actually deal with it in an intellectual manner. But I find it offensive that you should compare me to a fundamentalist Christian. I am not protestant and nor do I have my roots within that movement and nor does the Orhtodox church.

Fundai

That's not my place to decide. Actually I'm hip to the Orthodox Church (I assume you are Eastern Orthodox) If anything the Orthodox are probably closest to the Original vision of where Christianity should head. They tend to borrow more heavily from pagan ritual, but at least Orthodox doesn't pick and choose books of the Bible like other denominations. However, Orthodox also tend to be the most close minded and combative of Christians, which is why I said that explains your behavior here.Nuck81

Pagan ritual? What is pagan about the liturgical worship of the orthodox Church? Its more Jewish than anything following that same style and way of glorifying God (who is trinity). But as for being close minded have you actually ever talked with a whole lot? Or just a few bad experiences?

Organized religions are dumb. People who just believe in god in their own ways are fine. But organized religions can fvck off. Also, the number of people who have abused their power in religion far outnumber those of the "saints"l4dak47

There can be no doubt that people have abused their power in the church, theres a long history of this. This is why there are so many canons telling the Bishops, monks, priests and deacons and those in authority what they can and cannot do (and they are all of them reasonable if you ever should have a look at them and see for yourself). But how does one categorize and say organised religion, and by that I assume you mean with clear authorities, jurisdictions and powers to certain people, how does one determine that religion, say Orthodoxy, dumb? Its certaintly better than the mish mash of say protestantism which has resulted in thousands of different groups, no communion, no sense of the sacred and the like? I must dissagree 4dak.

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]That's not my place to decide. Actually I'm hip to the Orthodox Church (I assume you are Eastern Orthodox) If anything the Orthodox are probably closest to the Original vision of where Christianity should head. They tend to borrow more heavily from pagan ritual, but at least Orthodox doesn't pick and choose books of the Bible like other denominations. However, Orthodox also tend to be the most close minded and combative of Christians, which is why I said that explains your behavior here.Philokalia

Pagan ritual? What is pagan about the liturgical worship of the orthodox Church? Its more Jewish than anything following that same style and way of glorifying God (who is trinity). But as for being close minded have you actually ever talked with a whole lot? Or just a few bad experiences?

Of the Baha'i Forums I frequent it is mainly members of The Orthodox Church, Several from New Zealand actually, that tend to try and stir up the most trouble. I think debate is good, but it can get disrespectfull at times, especially when it is they who come to our forums to attack. But from a theological standpoint I respect the Orthodox Church more than most Denominations.Nuck81

Ah, you need to fix those forums as it seems no one can enter into them. But I agree those debates can get disrespectful when the question is not answered.

I must dissagree 4dak.Philokalia

[QUOTE="Philokalia"] I must dissagree 4dak.l4dak47

That wasn't so hard was it?

In most ancient cultures, women were considered property. It's a bias that has lasted since ancient times.hiphops_savior

i'm sure the customs and culture at the time made it that way, but religion made it mandatory and "punishable" to not follow the bogus rules. if women didn't think they were disobeying their god, they may have risen earlier if it weren't for religion.ZumaJones07

Pagans treated their women horrifically and their concepts of dvinity were not like the ones you are describing. It wasn't any religious commands like say in ancient greece that made women treated so badly (essentially as property) it was the culture and philosophy around them. Their gods were nothing like the judeo Christian God, they didn't enforce morality, they only enforced fate and did whatever they wanted.

You know l4dak47.alexside1

No, I don't know him. Based on this thread, it seems he likes telling people they're stupid, though.

[QUOTE="alexside1"]You know l4dak47.Palantas

No, I don't know him. Based on this thread, it seems he likes telling people they're stupid, though.

Men are naturally perverted.helwa1988

Women are just as perverted. Perversion is not unique to men.

And besides, both sexes can exercise self-control pretty easily.

No. Male-centric socities were apparent long before religion.

No. Male-centric socities were apparent long before religion.

kingkong0124

RELIGION DOES NOT SUCKSaintWalrus

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

No. Male-centric socities were apparent long before religion.

-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

No. Male-centric socities were apparent long before religion.

kingkong0124

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Examples?-Sun_Tzu-

Men went out to hunt and explore, women stayed back.

kingkong0124

Men went out to hunt and explore, women stayed back. they were often lead by a male figure.

kingkong0124

When humans were hunter-foragers they were still sexist. And, just letting you know, the common "scientific, objective" view is that religion developed BECAUSE of their culture, not the other way around. Religions are reflections of the society. You're mixing cause and effect.kingkong0124

While I'm sure religion has a hand in keeping women below men in today's society, many other systems are working against them to secure this. Religion had a bigger influence on women's rights in the past and will continue to exert its force in more undeveloped countries until they either go against the standard or completely move away. We'll see what happens.