Is the roman catholic church commiting idolatry?

Do you think prayer before the cross is considered Idolatry?

Idolatry in the Hebrew Bible is defined as either:

• the worship of idols (or images)
• the worship of polytheistic gods by use of idols (or images)
• the worship of animals or people
• the use of idols in the worship of God.

Then again the cross is the symbol of the lord jesus christ himself. But considering the fact that there is no concrete proof that jesus did actually die on the cross see Acts 5:30 "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree." and 1peter 2:24 "who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed."

No matter what your religion is I would like to hear your view of the prayer before the cross and the use of the cross altogether.

Seriously....no one literally prays TO THE CROSS...it's what the cross symbolizes..read up on something before making claims like this..

Xx_Hopeless_xX

It's even in the prayer itself! see the word PRAY?!? The prayer even ends with AMEN! Here is the prayer

Look down upon me, good and gentle Jesus,
while before Your face I humbly kneel and,
with burning soul,
pray and beseech You
to fix deep in my heart lively sentiments
of faith, hope and charity;
true contrition for my sins,
and a firm purpose of amendment.

While I contemplate,
with great love and tender pity,
Your five most precious wounds,
pondering over them within me
and calling to mind the words which David,
Your prophet, said of You, my Jesus:

"They have pierced My hands and My feet,
they have numbered all My bones."

Amen.

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Seriously....no one literally prays TO THE CROSS...it's what the cross symbolizes..read up on something before making claims like this..

whitetiger3521

It's even in the prayer itself! see the word PRAY?!? The prayer even ends with AMEN! Here is the prayer

Look down upon me, good and gentle Jesus,
while before Your face I humbly kneel and,
with burning soul,
pray and beseech You
to fix deep in my heart lively sentiments
of faith, hope and charity;
true contrition for my sins,
and a firm purpose of amendment.

While I contemplate,
with great love and tender pity,
Your five most precious wounds,
pondering over them within me
and calling to mind the words which David,
Your prophet, said of You, my Jesus:

"They have pierced My hands and My feet,
they have numbered all My bones."

Amen.

You should include the I don't care option, but anyways, I think they are praying with the cross, not to the cross. That would be like saying you are praying to yourself because you put your hands together.

It's even in the prayer itself! see the word PRAY?!? The prayer even ends with AMEN! Here is the prayerwhitetiger3521

Where does the cross come into play here, its talking directly to Jesus, right?

racer8dan

The prayer is said while kneeling before a cross.

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

Where does the cross come into play here, its talking directly to Jesus, right?

whitetiger3521

The prayer is said while kneeling before a cross.

[QUOTE="whitetiger3521"]

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

Where does the cross come into play here, its talking directly to Jesus, right?

racer8dan

The prayer is said while kneeling before a cross.

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

[QUOTE="whitetiger3521"]

The prayer is said while kneeling before a cross.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="racer8dan"]I don't know if I would consider it an idol sense its technically talking to jesus rather than to the cross itself, But I don't really see the need for crosses and prayer beads when you can pray without them, God is everywhere.

racer8dan

The second commandment is do not worship false idols, not the word false, I don't really think something that's meant to represent the image of christ is a false idol, if they start praying in front of a giant McDonalds sign sure, then we've got problems.bobbetybob

Idol worship is against the bible period

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] And Catholics don't say you need to either of them to pray.....;)LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]Thats my point, then why are they there?

racer8dan

Yes.

[QUOTE="bobbetybob"]The second commandment is do not worship false idols, not the word false, I don't really think something that's meant to represent the image of christ is a false idol, if they start praying in front of a giant McDonalds sign sure, then we've got problems.whitetiger3521

Idol worship is against the bible period

[QUOTE="whitetiger3521"]

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

Where does the cross come into play here, its talking directly to Jesus, right?

racer8dan

The prayer is said while kneeling before a cross.

technically you are praying to the cross directing it towards jesus

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

Seriously....no one literally prays TO THE CROSS...it's what the cross symbolizes..read up on something before making claims like this..

whitetiger3521

It's even in the prayer itself! see the word PRAY?!? The prayer even ends with AMEN! Here is the prayer

Look down upon me, good and gentle Jesus,
while before Your face I humbly kneel and,
with burning soul,
pray and beseech You
to fix deep in my heart lively sentiments
of faith, hope and charity;
true contrition for my sins,
and a firm purpose of amendment.

While I contemplate,
with great love and tender pity,
Your five most precious wounds,
pondering over them within me
and calling to mind the words which David,
Your prophet, said of You, my Jesus:

"They have pierced My hands and My feet,
they have numbered all My bones."

Amen.

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

[QUOTE="whitetiger3521"]

The prayer is said while kneeling before a cross.

whitetiger3521

technically you are praying to the cross directing it towards jesus

Anyone selecting yes is unfamiliar with the Catholic faith......just saying.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="whitetiger3521"]

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]I don't know if I would consider it an idol sense its technically talking to jesus rather than to the cross itself, But I don't really see the need for crosses and prayer beads when you can pray without them, God is everywhere.

LJS9502_basic

technically you are praying to the cross directing it towards jesus

A symbol that is used for worship is an idol!!! Which is against biblical law and against god!

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="whitetiger3521"]

technically you are praying to the cross directing it towards jesus

whitetiger3521

A symbol that is used for worship is an idol!!! Which is against biblical law and against god!

No it's not. /threadLJS9502_basic

I could have used your help in my thread about Mother Teresa yesterday. It was like you had disappeared.:P

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]No it's not. /threadtopsemag55

I could have used your help in my thread about Mother Teresa yesterday. It was like you had disappeared.:P

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] A rosary is just a way to keep track...the crucifix...not just cross...is the symbol of Jesus gift of salvation. What's the big deal about having them? Or are we just looking for yet another way to bash Catholics in OT?

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="racer8dan"]I'm not bashing catholics, TBH, I don't really know much about the denomination and its traditions, and it was a simple question out of curiosity.

racer8dan

Why don't you check here

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="racer8dan"]I'm not bashing catholics, TBH, I don't really know much about the denomination and its traditions, and it was a simple question out of curiosity.

racer8dan

[QUOTE="whitetiger3521"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] First...Catholics use a crucifix as a symbol...which is NOT the same as a cross. Second...they aren't praying to the crucifix...again...not cross.:lol:LJS9502_basic

A symbol that is used for worship is an idol!!! Which is against biblical law and against god!

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Anyone selecting yes is unfamiliar with the Catholic faith......just saying.Xx_Hopeless_xX

Why don't you check here

FireEmblem_Man

Uh by whitetiger's logic anybody but muslims and jews (?) (I scarcely remember that they did not worship any icons or symbols at all) who considers himself religious is idolatric. Actually TC go back to 700-800 AC, when they battled over the theme of idolatry (in which case idolatry was only an excuse for the battle). I quote what I remember (and what I believe it's right too), we only honour through symbols like crucifix etc. (and other man-made objects) the face and existing of a God (whether that is right or wrong) or other saints, whose ideas we worship. Ever wondered why in Orthodox churches there is no icon depicting the face of God (the father, not the son)? Yet this does not apply for the catholics too, so there might be a point to that :/...IveDatedUrMom

Catholics DO NOT worship the cross...it's a symbol of Jesus gift...but they pray TO JESUS who is part of the trinity of God. That's NOT worshiping other than God.

[QUOTE="FireEmblem_Man"]

Why don't you check here

LJS9502_basic

What? :? Are you sure?

I believe a Lord as righteous as Christ Jesus would know the difference from one kneeling before a cross to pray compared to one kneeling before an image or statue to pray to an entity that's not truly God. God knows what's in our heart, and most who pray before a cross are not praying to the cross but rather what it symbolizes.

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I wasn't referring to you....it was a general we.:PLJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="racer8dan"]Oh alright8) Maybe you can answer another question for me, a bit off topic but, it is my understanding that when jesus died on the cross it broke the "barrier" between God and man, eliminating the need for a priest, why would we still need a priest to confess our sins, when we can go directly to God through Jesus?

racer8dan

[QUOTE="topsemag55"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]No it's not. /threadLJS9502_basic

I could have used your help in my thread about Mother Teresa yesterday. It was like you had disappeared.:P

No problem.:) In a nutshell, the owners of the Empire St. Bldg. won't honor her 100th birthday with the lights. I got a lot of "hate-on-Teresa" posts from the left. I actually went looking for you.:lol:

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="topsemag55"]

I could have used your help in my thread about Mother Teresa yesterday. It was like you had disappeared.:P

topsemag55

No problem.:) In a nutshell, the owners of the Empire St. Bldg. won't honor her 100th birthday with the lights. I got a lot of "hate-on-Teresa" posts from the left. I actually went looking for you.:lol:

How can you hate someone that dedicated their life to helping others?:?LJS9502_basic

You got me. *shrugs* I could barely get anyone to acknowledge her works on behalf of the poor, sick and downtrodden.:?

[QUOTE="racer8dan"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]That's not a Catholic teaching.....in the Bible Jesus sends his apostles out to teach...and puts Peter in charge of His church. I'm not sure what religion uses what you quoted as a basis. But it's not Catholic......He did leave a progression and put "shepherds in charge of His sheep" to use His analogyLJS9502_basic

As a kid I was told by the ministerthat crucifixes and many of the images used by the Catholic church are a form of idolatry.

Many protestant churches believe it, not that I do.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="racer8dan"]I always thought that was the point of a catholic priest, to "connect" the people with God

racer8dan

As a kid I was told by the ministerthat crucifixes and many of the images used by the Catholic church are a form of idolatry.

Many protestant churches believe it, not that I do.

Gardenpath

No, they are not committing idolatry.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="racer8dan"]I always thought that was the point of a catholic priest, to "connect" the people with God

racer8dan

"Those who approach the sacrament of Penance obtain pardon from God's mercy for the offense committed against him, and are, at the same time, reconciled with the Church which they have wounded by their sins and which by charity, by example, and by prayer labors for their conversion (CCC 1422).

"It is called the sacrament of conversion because it makes sacramentally present Jesus' call to conversion, the first step in returning to the Father from whom one has strayed by sin.

It is called the sacrament of Penance, since it consecrates the Christian sinner's personal and ecclesial steps of conversion, penance, and satisfaction.

"It is called the sacrament of confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. In a profound sense it is also a 'confession' - acknowledgment and praise - of the holiness of God and of his mercy toward sinful man.

It is called the sacrament of forgiveness, since by the priest's sacramental absolution God grants the penitent "pardon and peace."

"It is called the sacrament of Reconciliation, because it imparts to the sinner the love of God who reconciles: 'Be reconciled to God.' He who lives by God's merciful love is ready to respond to the Lord's call: 'Go; first be reconciled to your brother'" (CCC 1423).