Is there a g@y gene?

The evidence on twins and genetics though says for it to be a gene when twins are involved it should be 100%. It's about 52% which tends to point to other indicators. Pens won by the way.

LJS9502_basic

There's a difference between there being a gay gene (something that I have said repeatedly seems unlikely) and there being genetic factors. For there to be about a 50% likelihood of one brother being gay if the other is gay in identical twins compared to only 20% if they are fraternal twins and 10% if they are adoptive brothers suggests that there is definitely some genetic component to it - if it was purely environmental or psychological, one should expect to see no correlation with genetic similarity at all, but that is not the case.

I think its a choice of the person, and a product of the enviroment the person is around. And isn't it like a law or something that animals always try to reproduce? seems like it would go against that almost directly

but if it were found to be a gene, wouldn't that open the field to a alot of other things? like a gene that makes people want to have sex with animals, or kill people, etc. just doesn't seem realistic tbh

then again i could be totally wrong, but meh, my opinion

Vashn

I believe there are animals that have sex socially and it can be amongst the same gender. And I definitly didn't choose mine.

Possibly, but for me that wasn't the case. I don't ever remember wondering who I was attracted to (I just knew), nor do I ever recall having sexual feeling for males.

BlueBirdTS

Each case can vary in any number of ways, I'm speaking in a generalized fashion. I don't ever recall wondering who I was attracted to either, but that confused me horribly, growing up in a very strict, conservative household. I never had sexual feelings for men, I just didn't admit it for a while. And like I said before, other aspects of my individual sexuality surfaced when I was around 20. It's complex, and I'm sure each person can tell a slightly different story, seeing as how every brain is slightly different.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

The evidence on twins and genetics though says for it to be a gene when twins are involved it should be 100%. It's about 52% which tends to point to other indicators. Pens won by the way.

GabuEx

There's a difference between there being a gay gene (something that I have said repeatedly seems unlikely) and there being genetic factors. For there to be about a 50% likelihood of one brother being gay if the other is gay in identical twins compared to only 20% if they are fraternal twins and 10% if they are adoptive brothers suggests that there is definitely some genetic component to it - if it was purely environmental or psychological, one should expect to see no correlation with genetic similarity at all, but that is not the case.

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

Possibly, but for me that wasn't the case. I don't ever remember wondering who I was attracted to (I just knew), nor do I ever recall having sexual feeling for males.

dhyce

Each case can vary in any number of ways, I'm speaking in a generalized fashion. I don't ever recall wondering who I was attracted to either, but that confused me horribly, growing up in a very strict, conservative household. I never had sexual feelings for men, I just didn't admit it for a while. And like I said before, other aspects of my individual sexuality surfaced when I was around 20. It's complex, and I'm sure each person can tell a slightly different story, seeing as how every brain is slightly different.

Well, if you're homosexual then I can see why it would be different. Society pretty much pushes you in a certain direction, and when your urges are pushing you in another, it's natural to be confused.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

The evidence on twins and genetics though says for it to be a gene when twins are involved it should be 100%. It's about 52% which tends to point to other indicators. Pens won by the way.

LJS9502_basic

There's a difference between there being a gay gene (something that I have said repeatedly seems unlikely) and there being genetic factors. For there to be about a 50% likelihood of one brother being gay if the other is gay in identical twins compared to only 20% if they are fraternal twins and 10% if they are adoptive brothers suggests that there is definitely some genetic component to it - if it was purely environmental or psychological, one should expect to see no correlation with genetic similarity at all, but that is not the case.

Not true. There is almost never 100% correlation. GabuEX is correct, the correlation just has to be higher for identical twins than fraternal.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

There's a difference between there being a gay gene (something that I have said repeatedly seems unlikely) and there being genetic factors. For there to be about a 50% likelihood of one brother being gay if the other is gay in identical twins compared to only 20% if they are fraternal twins and 10% if they are adoptive brothers suggests that there is definitely some genetic component to it - if it was purely environmental or psychological, one should expect to see no correlation with genetic similarity at all, but that is not the case.

BlueBirdTS

Not true. There is almost never 100% correlation. GabuEX is correct, the correlation just has to be higher for identical twins than fraternal.

And science is saying it's not genetic. They would have found genetic markers somewhere if it existed.

No ties to genetics either. The correlation is not high enough. For identical twins they would both have to be gay 100% of the time using genetics as an indicator. The percentage is much lower.

LJS9502_basic

Something can be affected by genetics without being purely tied to genetics. The difference between 10% and 50% is huge. If there were no genetic factors leading to an increased likelihood of homosexuality, then there should be no statistically significant difference between adoptive brothers and identical twins - but there consistently is a large one.

That doesn't mean there is a gay gene, but it does mean that there are genetic factors - perhaps relating to hormonal regulation, perhaps relating to the structure of the brain - that lead to an increased likelihood of homosexuality.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

No ties to genetics either. The correlation is not high enough. For identical twins they would both have to be gay 100% of the time using genetics as an indicator. The percentage is much lower.

GabuEx

Something can be affected by genetics without being purely tied to genetics. The difference between 10% and 50% is huge. If there were no genetic factors leading to an increased likelihood of homosexuality, then there should be no statistically significant difference between adoptive brothers and identical twins - but there consistently is a large one.

That doesn't mean there is a gay gene, but it does mean that there are genetic factors - perhaps relating to hormonal regulation, perhaps relating to the structure of the brain - that lead to an increased likelihood of homosexuality.

But you are ignoring science. They can't find ANY genetic link.LJS9502_basic

How does one explain the discrepancy between identical twins and adoptive brothers, then? It's not just one study; it has been repeatedly shown that identical twins are much more likely to be both homosexual than adoptive brothers, and that fraternal twins are in the middle.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

There's a difference between there being a gay gene (something that I have said repeatedly seems unlikely) and there being genetic factors. For there to be about a 50% likelihood of one brother being gay if the other is gay in identical twins compared to only 20% if they are fraternal twins and 10% if they are adoptive brothers suggests that there is definitely some genetic component to it - if it was purely environmental or psychological, one should expect to see no correlation with genetic similarity at all, but that is not the case.

BlueBirdTS

Not true. There is almost never 100% correlation. GabuEX is correct, the correlation just has to be higher for identical twins than fraternal.

The type of trait in terms of dominance or recessive nature combined with the penetrance of the feature need to be taken into account. It is entirely possibe for identical twins to develop very differently very early even with identical genotypes. Environmental and cytoplasmic differences must be taken into account. There is also concern for pre-mutation, questionable penetrance as above, and gonadal mutation.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]But you are ignoring science. They can't find ANY genetic link.GabuEx

How does one explain the discrepancy between identical twins and adoptive brothers, then? It's not just one study; it has been repeatedly shown that identical twins are much more likely to be both homosexual than adoptive brothers, and that fraternal twins are in the middle.

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]But you are ignoring science. They can't find ANY genetic link.LJS9502_basic

How does one explain the discrepancy between identical twins and adoptive brothers, then? It's not just one study; it has been repeatedly shown that identical twins are much more likely to be both homosexual than adoptive brothers, and that fraternal twins are in the middle.

With monozygous twins it is likely more a question of identical susceptibility than it is a question of identical genotypes.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

How does one explain the discrepancy between identical twins and adoptive brothers, then? It's not just one study; it has been repeatedly shown that identical twins are much more likely to be both homosexual than adoptive brothers, and that fraternal twins are in the middle.

drj077

With monozygous twins it is likely more a question of identical susceptibility than it is a question of identical genotypes.

[QUOTE="dog64"]

I've always wondered if homosexuality is genetic or a choice.

dhyce

Uh, neither one?

I do not get how anyone can be so dense as to think it's a choice, that just makes such little sense it gives me a headache. One cannot choose what sexually arouses them.

I don't personally believe it's biological, I believe it's a characteristic of the individual human mind just like all of sexuality. Some prefer blonde hair, a fit physique or a chubby one, some prefer objects, some prefer transexuals, some prefer seeing somebody smoke, some prefer CORPSES. There is NOT an individual gene for every minute aspect behind the individual psychology of every person. Why oh why does homosexuality cause a veritable hurricane of questions, when there are far more bizarre sexual preferences the human mind can develope? I say develope, because although traces of ones sexual preferences can surface at a young age, ultimately ones sexual identity does not fully develope until after puberty.

All homosexuality, bisexuality, heterosexuality are... are simple preferences based on the individual, like preferring Rock over Jazz, or Classical over Blues. Sushi over ice cream, driving a motorcycle over a car, wanting to paint instead of play guitar, wanting to go camping instead of going to the beach. The countless trillions of preferences we all have, no matter how small, are all technically the same thing; nothing more than what each unique mind likes. That's all I believe any sexuality or fetish to be. I don't understand how anybody can think differently. It seems like a no brainer to me.

Well, that's kind of what I believe as well. But many believe that genes, or something in the brain, is involved. Like said, if it's not a choice, then it's something that the person has no control over and cannot change.

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]No ties to genetics either. The correlation is not high enough. For identical twins they would both have to be gay 100% of the time using genetics as an indicator. The percentage is much lower.

drj077

Not true. There is almost never 100% correlation. GabuEX is correct, the correlation just has to be higher for identical twins than fraternal.

The type of trait in terms of dominance or recessive nature combined with the penetrance of the feature need to be taken into account. It is entirely possibe for identical twins to develop very differently very early even with identical genotypes. Environmental and cytoplasmic differences must be taken into account. There is also concern for pre-mutation, questionable penetrance as above, and gonadal mutation.

Biology major? :P Yes, I think you are correct on this one. Environmental factors can play a big role on phenotypic expression.

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="dog64"]

I've always wondered if homosexuality is genetic or a choice. I've heard many on this forum say that it's genetic, and it's something that you can't control. Well, I have found an article that tries to disprove this:

(NARTH) Is There a Gay Gene?

I find the information in the above article interesting. But, I have found another article that says otherwise:

(WebMD) Is There a Gay Gene?

So, which one should I believe? Is there a gay gene, or not? Is homosexuality a choice, or is it really something you're born with?

dog64

True it does seem bias, but they're supposedly quoting scientists.

I'm sorry, but just no. Trusting a site that deals in "curing" homosexuality would be absurd.

[QUOTE="drj077"]

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

Not true. There is almost never 100% correlation. GabuEX is correct, the correlation just has to be higher for identical twins than fraternal.

BlueBirdTS

The type of trait in terms of dominance or recessive nature combined with the penetrance of the feature need to be taken into account. It is entirely possibe for identical twins to develop very differently very early even with identical genotypes. Environmental and cytoplasmic differences must be taken into account. There is also concern for pre-mutation, questionable penetrance as above, and gonadal mutation.

Biology major? :P Yes, I think you are correct on this one. Environmental factors can play a big role on phenotypic expression.

Five years ago I was a Biology Major. I was hooded today, so now I'm something else in the White-Collar industry.

As with the majority of chronic disease, environmental factors likely have a significant impact on early development and phenotypic expression of the genotype. There is no reason for this to not be true of sexual orientation and discovery, as well, due to the very early neural development that takes place.

I'd don't get why these threads go on for so long. As if something is going to proved. Issues like these have already been decided by people more intelligent and less bias than any of us :?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]But you are ignoring science. They can't find ANY genetic link.LJS9502_basic

How does one explain the discrepancy between identical twins and adoptive brothers, then? It's not just one study; it has been repeatedly shown that identical twins are much more likely to be both homosexual than adoptive brothers, and that fraternal twins are in the middle.

Out of curiosity, I went to the webpage of the American Psychological Association; this is an excerpt from their factsheet on homosexuality:

"There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation. Most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality."

And, from another page on the APA's website:

"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."

As far as I can tell, these were updated as early as 2008, so they represent pretty much the current thoughts among the scientific community.

...At any rate, the important question was whether or not homosexuality is a choice; I've never quite understood how we get off on these tangents arguing about stuff that really in the end does not matter. :P

It's both genetic and psychological. However, a choice it is not.

Out of curiosity, I went to the webpage of the American Psychological Association; this is an excerpt from their factsheet on homosexuality:

"There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation. Most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality."

And, from another page on the APA's website:

"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation."

As far as I can tell, these were updated as early as 2008, so they represent pretty much the current thoughts among the scientific community.

...At any rate, the important question was whether or not homosexuality is a choice; I've never quite understood how we get off on these tangents arguing about stuff that really in the end does not matter. :P

GabuEx

Some of the posts in this thread are just terrible. How can anyoen think that being gay is a choice? do you honestly think people want to be gay?

MasterC5

[QUOTE="MasterC5"]

Some of the posts in this thread are just terrible. How can anyoen think that being gay is a choice? do you honestly think people want to be gay?

LJS9502_basic

fffffff

Some of the posts in this thread are just terrible. How can anyoen think that being gay is a choice? do you honestly think people want to be gay?

MasterC5

Oh, so being gay is such a horrible thing that nobody would ever choose it? Is that what you're saying? Hmm? 'Cause let me tell you something, okay, I am NOT some sort of disgusting freak of nature whose existence can only be justified by some genetic malformity, you got that? PUH-LENTY of guys would choose to be gay if only for the sake of getting to do it with me, cuz let me tell you something, buddy, despite what you might think about us "freaks," you don't know, you don't know, I'm quite happy and peaceful and content and NORMAL in every single aspect and can get anybody I want, man or woman; I just don't want a woman because, hey I LIKE MEN, and there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="MasterC5"]

Some of the posts in this thread are just terrible. How can anyoen think that being gay is a choice? do you honestly think people want to be gay?

MasterC5

fffffff

I agree with your first post. I honestly don't see why anyone would want to be, either.

[QUOTE="MasterC5"]

Some of the posts in this thread are just terrible. How can anyoen think that being gay is a choice? do you honestly think people want to be gay?

Theokhoth

Oh, so being gay is such a horrible thing that nobody would ever choose it? Is that what you're saying? Hmm? 'Cause let me tell you something, okay, I am NOT some sort of disgusting freak of nature whose existence can only be justified by some genetic malformity, you got that? PUH-LENTY of guys would choose to be gay if only for the sake of getting to do it with me, cuz let me tell you something, buddy, despite what you might think about us "freaks," you don't know, you don't know, I'm quite happy and peaceful and content and NORMAL in every single aspect and can get anybody I want, man or woman; I just don't want a woman because, hey I LIKE MEN, and there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!

I agree with your first post. I honestly don't see why anyone would want to be, either.

Dark_Knight6

Why? If a person finds the same sex attractive, then he obviously likes being gay and would choose it if he could :)

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

I agree with your first post. I honestly don't see why anyone would want to be, either.

dog64

Why? If a person finds the same sex attractive, then he obviously likes being gay and would choose it if he could :)

It makes growing up much more confusing than it should be. And whether a gay guy likes it or not, he's gay and there's nothing he can do about it.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="MasterC5"]

Some of the posts in this thread are just terrible. How can anyoen think that being gay is a choice? do you honestly think people want to be gay?

MasterC5

Oh, so being gay is such a horrible thing that nobody would ever choose it? Is that what you're saying? Hmm? 'Cause let me tell you something, okay, I am NOT some sort of disgusting freak of nature whose existence can only be justified by some genetic malformity, you got that? PUH-LENTY of guys would choose to be gay if only for the sake of getting to do it with me, cuz let me tell you something, buddy, despite what you might think about us "freaks," you don't know, you don't know, I'm quite happy and peaceful and content and NORMAL in every single aspect and can get anybody I want, man or woman; I just don't want a woman because, hey I LIKE MEN, and there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!

[QUOTE="MasterC5"]

Some of the posts in this thread are just terrible. How can anyoen think that being gay is a choice? do you honestly think people want to be gay?

Theokhoth

Oh, so being gay is such a horrible thing that nobody would ever choose it? Is that what you're saying? Hmm? 'Cause let me tell you something, okay, I am NOT some sort of disgusting freak of nature whose existence can only be justified by some genetic malformity, you got that? PUH-LENTY of guys would choose to be gay if only for the sake of getting to do it with me, cuz let me tell you something, buddy, despite what you might think about us "freaks," you don't know, you don't know, I'm quite happy and peaceful and content and NORMAL in every single aspect and can get anybody I want, man or woman; I just don't want a woman because, hey I LIKE MEN, and there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!

I agree with you, but he has a point. Why would you choose to be gay and potentially be ridiculed by society? I think he was actually making a comment in defense of gays.

[QUOTE="dog64"]

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

I agree with your first post. I honestly don't see why anyone would want to be, either.

Dark_Knight6

Why? If a person finds the same sex attractive, then he obviously likes being gay and would choose it if he could :)

It makes growing up much more confusing than it should be. And whether a gay guy likes it or not, he's gay and there's nothing he can do about it.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="MasterC5"]

Some of the posts in this thread are just terrible. How can anyoen think that being gay is a choice? do you honestly think people want to be gay?

MasterC5

Oh, so being gay is such a horrible thing that nobody would ever choose it? Is that what you're saying? Hmm? 'Cause let me tell you something, okay, I am NOT some sort of disgusting freak of nature whose existence can only be justified by some genetic malformity, you got that? PUH-LENTY of guys would choose to be gay if only for the sake of getting to do it with me, cuz let me tell you something, buddy, despite what you might think about us "freaks," you don't know, you don't know, I'm quite happy and peaceful and content and NORMAL in every single aspect and can get anybody I want, man or woman; I just don't want a woman because, hey I LIKE MEN, and there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!

I'm joking, dude. >_>

Internet: Serious business.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="MasterC5"]

Some of the posts in this thread are just terrible. How can anyoen think that being gay is a choice? do you honestly think people want to be gay?

BlueBirdTS

Oh, so being gay is such a horrible thing that nobody would ever choose it? Is that what you're saying? Hmm? 'Cause let me tell you something, okay, I am NOT some sort of disgusting freak of nature whose existence can only be justified by some genetic malformity, you got that? PUH-LENTY of guys would choose to be gay if only for the sake of getting to do it with me, cuz let me tell you something, buddy, despite what you might think about us "freaks," you don't know, you don't know, I'm quite happy and peaceful and content and NORMAL in every single aspect and can get anybody I want, man or woman; I just don't want a woman because, hey I LIKE MEN, and there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!!

I agree with you, but he has a point. Why would you choose to be gay and potentially be ridiculed by society? I think he was actually making a comment in defense of gays.

To play Devil's Advocate, that doesn't necessarily mean nobody would choose to be gay .

I'm guessing societal pressures because attraction is attraction and generally a good thing.

LJS9502_basic

Many people will say otherwise when it comes to being attracted to the same gender. So yes, societal pressures.

[QUOTE="dog64"]

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]

I agree with your first post. I honestly don't see why anyone would want to be, either.

Dark_Knight6

Why? If a person finds the same sex attractive, then he obviously likes being gay and would choose it if he could :)

It makes growing up much more confusing than it should be. And whether a gay guy likes it or not, he's gay and there's nothing he can do about it.

What's confusing about it? If a person is gay he/she is attracted to the same sex. Even if he's ridiculed for it or something, that's what he is. And if he is gay and has no attraction to females, then he shouldn't have a problem with it. To him it's normal.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

I'm guessing societal pressures because attraction is attraction and generally a good thing.

Dark_Knight6

Many people will say otherwise when it comes to being attracted to the same gender. So yes, societal pressures.

What's confusing about it? If a person is gay he/she is attracted to the same sex. Even if he's ridiculed for it or something, that's what he is. And if he is gay and has no attraction to females, then he shouldn't have a problem with it. To him it's normal.

dog64

When you feel one way and society says that's bad, you're going to end up with some confusion. And I doubt most gay men find it normal in the beginning.

No one will be liked and accepted by everyone...the secret is being happy with yourself. Those that don't get you....forget. I mean as surprising as it is....there are people that don't like me. Shocking I know....:P

LJS9502_basic

What?! What monster couldn't like you?! :o And that's an interesting view on it all. I think I'll try that one.

No. Who wakes up and goes, "Hm... I could use some penis/vagina today..."? No one.Raikoh_

I do. The second choice that is... uhh huh huh...

Although I usually don't call it vagina :)

PUH-LENTY of guys would choose to be gay if only for the sake of getting to do it with meTheokhoth

I didn't know you were training to be a stand-up comedian.The_Versatile

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]PUH-LENTY of guys would choose to be gay if only for the sake of getting to do it with meThe_Versatile

[QUOTE="The_Versatile"] I didn't know you were training to be a stand-up comedian.LJS9502_basic

I believe it is a choice. From experience of hanging around two g@y people, I have concluded this knowledge. One of my friends was strait until a couple months ago when he decided to become bi. He says its fun to swing both ways. The other one was strait for a long time until he decided he was g@y, Honestly we may never know.

I believe it is a choice. From experience of hanging around two g@y people, I have concluded this knowledge. One of my friends was strait until a couple months ago when he decided to become bi. He says its fun to swing both ways. The other one was strait for a long time until he decided he was g@y, Honestly we may never know.

Hungry_Jello

Do you think it's possible that they may of been bi and gay to begin with?

I believe it is a choice. From experience of hanging around two g@y people, I have concluded this knowledge. One of my friends was strait until a couple months ago when he decided to become bi. He says its fun to swing both ways. The other one was strait for a long time until he decided he was g@y, Honestly we may never know.

Hungry_Jello

No. There can be some crazy reasons to explain why someone might be gay but the DNA itself has nothing to do with it.