Islam isnt what the west percieves it to be....

I... don't care. From what I have seen of Islamic culture, i don't like it. Most of all the oppresion of women. swizz-the-gamer

You'd prefer the objectifying of women right? Legalizing prostitution, having nude beaches, strip clubs, and basically just naked women all around right? Pfft. You're pathetic. And I don't know what you have seen, but just the fact that you've used that word clearly shows that you know nothing of Islam. Please get your facts straight before throwing around "the oppression of women!" and such. 

Also, these topics need to die. Now. TC, you're a disgrace to Muslims, and you need to stop forcing your beliefs on a gaming site. Just quit it for heaven sakes. Stop shoving all this down these users throats, get a life, and stop adding to the stereotype of all Muslims being annoying. You remember that, as muslims, it's our job NOT to annoy others about joining our religion, but paying attention to our own needs beforehand. So just quit it! Can we get a mod to lock all topics made by thinker_reborn, if they're not going to be intelligent light hearted discussions? Please?

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]I condemn chritianity becasue it has lost it's original teachings and it's true values and beliefs have been altered.AirGuitarist87

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"][QUOTE="mlbslugger86"]

 

what i mean by modernizing isn't changing there ways entirely, just to make rules that are more reasonable, damn like i also heard they still cut theives hands, why not just arrest him and let him rot in jail?

ghoklebutter

The penaltyfor theft in defined in the Koran: The thief must have their hands cut off.

You may not question the peaceful words of Allah. 

That only happens in hell. :|

And if you read a translation of the Qur'an, you would see that islam does not allow people to kill the innocent. 

In the Koran translated by M.H. Shakir in 1983 it says, and I quote

5:38 And (as for) the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as a punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

It does not says they shall be punished in hell.

I'm in the middle of reading the Koran right now; I'll make up my own mind about that last statment when I'm done. 

[QUOTE="redwolf22"]

I have nothing against Islam, Infact, I'm trying to find a translated copy of the Quran at my libary. Islam is one of the better religions when you wash away all the "crap" and get down to its true values.

"* The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr.

* People from the time of Adam onwards are as equal as the teeth of a comb. Arabs are not superior to non Arabs, nor are Redskinned people better than Blacks. No superiority or virture exists except in terms of Piety.

* The Quest for knowledge I cherish, superior to God's worship.

* The love of the world, is the root of all evils."

Live by that, and the world would be a better place. The last part of the first one is something that I would disagree with, because it makes it seem like theres only one true religion/belief, and I believe in the freedom to worship (or not) in any way you choose and not be judged a lesser person because of it. The last one is sadly half true, but it can be overcome.

ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]I... don't care. From what I have seen of Islamic culture, i don't like it. Most of all the oppresion of women. thattotally

You'd prefer the objectifying of women right? Legalizing prostitution, having nude beaches, strip clubs, and basically just naked women all around right? Pfft. You're pathetic. And I don't know what you have seen, but just the fact that you've used that word clearly shows that you know nothing of Islam. Please get your facts straight before throwing around "the oppression of women!" and such. 

Also, these topics need to die. Now. TC, you're a disgrace to Muslims, and you need to stop forcing your beliefs on a gaming site. Just quit it for heaven sakes. Stop shoving all this down these users throats, get a life, and stop adding to the stereotype of all Muslims being annoying. You remember that, as muslims, it's our job NOT to annoy others about joining our religion, but paying attention to our own needs beforehand. So just quit it! Can we get a mod to lock all topics made by thinker_reborn, if they're not going to be intelligent light hearted discussions? Please?

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="limpbizkit818"]

 

The penaltyfor theft in defined in the Koran: The thief must have their hands cut off.

You may not question the peaceful words of Allah. 

limpbizkit818

That only happens in hell. :|

And if you read a translation of the Qur'an, you would see that islam does not allow people to kill the innocent. 

In the Koran translated by M.H. Shakir in 1983 it says, and I quote

5:38 And (as for) the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as a punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

It does not says they shall be punished in hell.

I'm in the middle of reading the Koran right now; I'll make up my own mind about that last statment when I'm done. 

Context?

I think you are trying to leave out something...:P 

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]I... don't care. From what I have seen of Islamic culture, i don't like it. Most of all the oppresion of women. thattotally

You'd prefer the objectifying of women right? Legalizing prostitution, having nude beaches, strip clubs, and basically just naked women all around right? Pfft. You're pathetic. And I don't know what you have seen, but just the fact that you've used that word clearly shows that you know nothing of Islam. Please get your facts straight before throwing around "the oppression of women!" and such. 

Also, these topics need to die. Now. TC, you're a disgrace to Muslims, and you need to stop forcing your beliefs on a gaming site. Just quit it for heaven sakes. Stop shoving all this down these users throats, get a life, and stop adding to the stereotype of all Muslims being annoying. You remember that, as muslims, it's our job NOT to annoy others about joining our religion, but paying attention to our own needs beforehand. So just quit it! Can we get a mod to lock all topics made by thinker_reborn, if they're not going to be intelligent light hearted discussions? Please?

Comparing the brutal oppression of womens rights in islamic countries (other countries too, islam isnt the only factor) to strip clubs, nude beaches and legal prostitution is completely unfair.  Women have a choice to become strippers, they have a choice to be naked on beaches, and in countries where prostitution is legal and regulated, women have a choice to sell themelves.  In most of the islamic world, women dont have a choice to do anything of their own free will.  If i am correct i think there was a story recently about a women who was a victim of an acid attack because she had divorced her husband.  

Women cannot vote, cannot drive, cannot go out in public without wearing a dress that covers their entire body and lack any independence or free will, all of this is sanctioned by sharia law, which came from Islam...this is Oppression!!! 

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]

Now most muslims believe that if you dont believe in God and muhammad than you are going to hell just cuz of that.I personally dont believe in that and there really is no evidence of such a thing being true.

Funky_Llama

I'd like to see people that follow Islam take more ownership for it, then. Much of what these extremists do, they claim they do in the name of their religion. Much of what they do is in opposition of what their religion states. However, if the truthful followers of Islam fail to take a stand, fail to condemn such actions, they too will be judged accordingly.

I'm not saying Islam is only at fault. Christianity, Judaism, etc. certainly has its zealots, its share of corruption over the years. Many people are just easily mislead, easily corrupted by the thought of doing something for their god to the point of fanaticism.

sonicare

[QUOTE="thattotally"]

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]I... don't care. From what I have seen of Islamic culture, i don't like it. Most of all the oppresion of women. M1MyRifle

You'd prefer the objectifying of women right? Legalizing prostitution, having nude beaches, strip clubs, and basically just naked women all around right? Pfft. You're pathetic. And I don't know what you have seen, but just the fact that you've used that word clearly shows that you know nothing of Islam. Please get your facts straight before throwing around "the oppression of women!" and such. 

Also, these topics need to die. Now. TC, you're a disgrace to Muslims, and you need to stop forcing your beliefs on a gaming site. Just quit it for heaven sakes. Stop shoving all this down these users throats, get a life, and stop adding to the stereotype of all Muslims being annoying. You remember that, as muslims, it's our job NOT to annoy others about joining our religion, but paying attention to our own needs beforehand. So just quit it! Can we get a mod to lock all topics made by thinker_reborn, if they're not going to be intelligent light hearted discussions? Please?

Comparing the brutal oppression of womens rights in islamic countries (other countries too, islam isnt the only factor) to strip clubs, nude beaches and legal prostitution is completely unfair.  Women have a choice to become strippers, they have a choice to be naked on beaches, and in countries where prostitution is legal and regulated, women have a choice to sell themelves.  In most of the islamic world, women dont have a choice to do anything of their own free will.  If i am correct i think there was a story recently about a women who was a victim of an acid attack because she had divorced her husband.  

Women cannot vote, cannot drive, cannot go out in public without wearing a dress that covers their entire body and lack any independence or free will, all of this is sanctioned by sharia law, which came from Islam...this is Oppression!!! 

Women are only prohibhited to drive in Saudi Arabia.

And by the way, women have plenty of rights in islam. And they can do whatever they want as long as what they are doing is not sinful.

And about that divorce story, that is pretty bad. But she didn't do anything wrong. The man who killed her is who was wrong. 

[QUOTE="mlbslugger86"]

 

what i mean by modernizing isn't changing there ways entirely, just to make rules that are more reasonable, damn like i also heard they still cut theives hands, why not just arrest him and let him rot in jail?

limpbizkit818

The penaltyfor theft in defined in the Koran: The thief must have their hands cut off.

You may not question the peaceful words of Allah. 

In the west you can be jailed for slapping your own child.Now see the irony here?

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"][QUOTE="mlbslugger86"]

 

what i mean by modernizing isn't changing there ways entirely, just to make rules that are more reasonable, damn like i also heard they still cut theives hands, why not just arrest him and let him rot in jail?

Thinker_reborn

The penaltyfor theft in defined in the Koran: The thief must have their hands cut off.

You may not question the peaceful words of Allah. 

In the west you can be jailed for slapping your own child.Now see the irony here?

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]I condemn chritianity becasue it has lost it's original teachings and it's true values and beliefs have been altered.AirGuitarist87

Context?

I think you are trying to leave out something...:P 

ghoklebutter

It's not out of context, look it up if you need to.

Sura 5, Ayah 38

(that is how you say it, correct?)

The word hell is not used at all in the 5th Sura. 

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]I condemn chritianity becasue it has lost it's original teachings and it's true values and beliefs have been altered.Thinker_reborn

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

Context?

I think you are trying to leave out something...:P 

limpbizkit818

It's not out of context, look it up if you need to.

Sura 5, Ayah 38

(that is how you say it, correct?)

The word hell is not used at all in the 5th Sura. 

In the same sura:

[5:37] They will want to exit **Hell**, but alas, they can never exit therefrom; their retribution is eternal.   

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"][QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"] Every religion has lost it's original teachings, including Islam.AirGuitarist87

They wrongfully interpret the message of islam.

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"][QUOTE="limpbizkit818"]

 

The penaltyfor theft in defined in the Koran: The thief must have their hands cut off.

You may not question the peaceful words of Allah. 

AirGuitarist87

In the west you can be jailed for slapping your own child.Now see the irony here?

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"][QUOTE="limpbizkit818"]

 

The penaltyfor theft in defined in the Koran: The thief must have their hands cut off.

You may not question the peaceful words of Allah. 

AirGuitarist87

In the west you can be jailed for slapping your own child.Now see the irony here?

Agreed with AirGuitarist87.... what's the irony?

[QUOTE="M1MyRifle"][QUOTE="thattotally"]

You'd prefer the objectifying of women right? Legalizing prostitution, having nude beaches, strip clubs, and basically just naked women all around right? Pfft. You're pathetic. And I don't know what you have seen, but just the fact that you've used that word clearly shows that you know nothing of Islam. Please get your facts straight before throwing around "the oppression of women!" and such. 

Also, these topics need to die. Now. TC, you're a disgrace to Muslims, and you need to stop forcing your beliefs on a gaming site. Just quit it for heaven sakes. Stop shoving all this down these users throats, get a life, and stop adding to the stereotype of all Muslims being annoying. You remember that, as muslims, it's our job NOT to annoy others about joining our religion, but paying attention to our own needs beforehand. So just quit it! Can we get a mod to lock all topics made by thinker_reborn, if they're not going to be intelligent light hearted discussions? Please?

ghoklebutter

Comparing the brutal oppression of womens rights in islamic countries (other countries too, islam isnt the only factor) to strip clubs, nude beaches and legal prostitution is completely unfair.  Women have a choice to become strippers, they have a choice to be naked on beaches, and in countries where prostitution is legal and regulated, women have a choice to sell themelves.  In most of the islamic world, women dont have a choice to do anything of their own free will.  If i am correct i think there was a story recently about a women who was a victim of an acid attack because she had divorced her husband.  

Women cannot vote, cannot drive, cannot go out in public without wearing a dress that covers their entire body and lack any independence or free will, all of this is sanctioned by sharia law, which came from Islam...this is Oppression!!! 

Women are only prohibhited to drive in Saudi Arabia.

And by the way, women have plenty of rights in islam. And they can do whatever they want as long as what they are doing is not sinful.

And about that divorce story, that is pretty bad. But she didn't do anything wrong. The man who killed her is who was wrong. 

Absolutely its the guys fault and he should be punished! But all he is getting is a slap on the wrist, and that is severely depressing.  And you said women can do whatever they want as long as its not sinful...who determines what is sinful? The male dominated governments of these countries? The religious leaders who are all male? Leaders who arent even elected and just dictate justice and order without any oversight?

Say what you want about the objectivication of women here in the west, but at least they are treated equally under the law and have to right to vote. 

[QUOTE="thattotally"]

[QUOTE="swizz-the-gamer"]I... don't care. From what I have seen of Islamic culture, i don't like it. Most of all the oppresion of women. M1MyRifle

You'd prefer the objectifying of women right? Legalizing prostitution, having nude beaches, strip clubs, and basically just naked women all around right? Pfft. You're pathetic. And I don't know what you have seen, but just the fact that you've used that word clearly shows that you know nothing of Islam. Please get your facts straight before throwing around "the oppression of women!" and such. 

Also, these topics need to die. Now. TC, you're a disgrace to Muslims, and you need to stop forcing your beliefs on a gaming site. Just quit it for heaven sakes. Stop shoving all this down these users throats, get a life, and stop adding to the stereotype of all Muslims being annoying. You remember that, as muslims, it's our job NOT to annoy others about joining our religion, but paying attention to our own needs beforehand. So just quit it! Can we get a mod to lock all topics made by thinker_reborn, if they're not going to be intelligent light hearted discussions? Please?

Comparing the brutal oppression of womens rights in islamic countries (other countries too, islam isnt the only factor) to strip clubs, nude beaches and legal prostitution is completely unfair.  Women have a choice to become strippers, they have a choice to be naked on beaches, and in countries where prostitution is legal and regulated, women have a choice to sell themelves.  In most of the islamic world, women dont have a choice to do anything of their own free will.  If i am correct i think there was a story recently about a women who was a victim of an acid attack because she had divorced her husband.  

Women cannot vote, cannot drive, cannot go out in public without wearing a dress that covers their entire body and lack any independence or free will, all of this is sanctioned by sharia law, which came from Islam...this is Oppression!!! 

No no no and no. Just because Saudia Arabia is seen as the "face of Islam" or whatever, doesn't mean that they are right. Or that it is Islam for that matter. SA, like all Arab countries, are just behind the times and completely idiotic, because they're Arabs. If they had your advancement and brain power, and if you Americans and Europeans had our (scratch that, not "our", but the Islamic) moral thinking and the like, then the world will be a better place. Alas, that will never happen. 

Women have a choice. And the only reason they don't, the only reason that such horrific things such as the Taliban society which exists in Afghanistan, is b/c they, them, those fools, are idiots. It has nothing to do with Islam, but the fact that Arabs are pure, moronic morons. Boy it gets my blood boiling how stupid Arabs are. 

And life is about sacrfice, so stop being such babies. I mean jeez, what is with all the whining? Now remember, it IS all women's choice, and there's nothing more respectable than a woman who, at 48 degrees Celsius, covers up her entire body out of modesty and respect to God. Do your women have strength such as that? 

So moral of the story, get. your. facts. straight. Thank You.

And why isn't this topic locked yet? Should I go to Ask the Mods? The TC is the worst representation of Islam ever. That's what I'd expect from a level 5 user after all. These topics need to end, and I'm going to put a stop to them. For the sake and goodness of Islam.

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

Context?

I think you are trying to leave out something...:P 

ghoklebutter

It's not out of context, look it up if you need to.

Sura 5, Ayah 38

(that is how you say it, correct?)

The word hell is not used at all in the 5th Sura. 

In the same sura:

[5:37] They will want to exit **Hell**, but alas, they can never exit therefrom; their retribution is eternal.   

While you may consider me an extremist,I am not even close to that.If my style of posting reflected that then I would try to be more carefull about it.

Anyways here's a few sayings of the holy prophet which I am sure would give you a picture that Islam isnt the shallow,behind the times and restricted religion that you may think it is.

* The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr.

* People from the time of Adam onwards are as equal as the teeth of a comb. Arabs are not superior to non Arabs, nor are Redskinned people better than Blacks. No superiority or virture exists except in terms of Piety. 

* The Quest for knowledge I cherish, superior to God's worship.

* The love of the world, is the root of all evils. 

Now most muslims believe that if you dont believe in God and muhammad than you are going to hell just cuz of that.I personally dont believe in that and there really is no evidence of such a thing being true.There are several sayings of muhammad clearly indicating that God can forgive you for just about anything good.However that doesnt mean that if you have some good qualities than you are not going to hell for sure but it really is upon God.

The main thing that I want to pass on is that believing in God and mushammad really isnt 100% necessary to go to paradise.Many muslims may disagree with me but there doesnt seem to be any proof of that.

What I am saying is that Islam really is a fair religion overall.And here's something,

A bedouin came to the holy prophet Muhammad (s) and asked him some questions.

Bedouin: I wish to be the richest person in the world.

Prophet: Be content and you will be the richest person in the world.

Bedouin: I would like to be the most learned of people.

Prophet: Fear Allah and you will be the most learned of people.

Bedouin: I would like to be the most just of people.

Prophet: Desire for others what you would like for yourself and you would be the most just of people.

Bedouin: I would like to be the best of people.

Prophet: Be good to others and you will be the best of people.

Bedouin: I would like to be the most honorable of people.

Prophet: If you do not complain to any fellow humans you will be the most honorable of people.

Bedouin: I wish to be safe from Allah's Wrath on the Day of Judgment.

Prophet: If you do not lose your temper with any of your fellow humans, you will be safe from Allah's wrath on the Day of Judgment.

Bedouin: What are the worst evils in the sight of Allah?

Prophet: Hot temper and miserliness (i.e. selfishness with money).

That gives a pretty good picture of Islam and God is certainly not the cruel and angry fellow like some athesists think over here.

http://www.geocities.com/ahlulbayt14/SayingsProphet.html

While you may consider me an extremist,I am not even close to that.If my style of posting reflected that then I would try to be more carefull about it.

Anyways here's a few sayings of the holy prophet which I am sure would give you a picture that Islam isnt the shallow,behind the times and restricted religion that you may think it is.

* The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr.

* People from the time of Adam onwards are as equal as the teeth of a comb. Arabs are not superior to non Arabs, nor are Redskinned people better than Blacks. No superiority or virture exists except in terms of Piety. 

* The Quest for knowledge I cherish, superior to God's worship.

* The love of the world, is the root of all evils. 

Now most muslims believe that if you dont believe in God and muhammad than you are going to hell just cuz of that.I personally dont believe in that and there really is no evidence of such a thing being true.There are several sayings of muhammad clearly indicating that God can forgive you for just about anything good.However that doesnt mean that if you have some good qualities than you are not going to hell for sure but it really is upon God.

The main thing that I want to pass on is that believing in God and mushammad really isnt 100% necessary to go to paradise.Many muslims may disagree with me but there doesnt seem to be any proof of that.

What I am saying is that Islam really is a fair religion overall.And here's something,

A bedouin came to the holy prophet Muhammad (s) and asked him some questions.

Bedouin: I wish to be the richest person in the world.

Prophet: Be content and you will be the richest person in the world.

Bedouin: I would like to be the most learned of people.

Prophet: Fear Allah and you will be the most learned of people.

Bedouin: I would like to be the most just of people.

Prophet: Desire for others what you would like for yourself and you would be the most just of people.

Bedouin: I would like to be the best of people.

Prophet: Be good to others and you will be the best of people.

Bedouin: I would like to be the most honorable of people.

Prophet: If you do not complain to any fellow humans you will be the most honorable of people.

Bedouin: I wish to be safe from Allah's Wrath on the Day of Judgment.

Prophet: If you do not lose your temper with any of your fellow humans, you will be safe from Allah's wrath on the Day of Judgment.

Bedouin: What are the worst evils in the sight of Allah?

Prophet: Hot temper and miserliness (i.e. selfishness with money).

That gives a pretty good picture of Islam and God is certainly not the cruel and angry fellow like some athesists think over here.

http://www.geocities.com/ahlulbayt14/SayingsProphet.html

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="M1MyRifle"]

Comparing the brutal oppression of womens rights in islamic countries (other countries too, islam isnt the only factor) to strip clubs, nude beaches and legal prostitution is completely unfair.  Women have a choice to become strippers, they have a choice to be naked on beaches, and in countries where prostitution is legal and regulated, women have a choice to sell themelves.  In most of the islamic world, women dont have a choice to do anything of their own free will.  If i am correct i think there was a story recently about a women who was a victim of an acid attack because she had divorced her husband.  

Women cannot vote, cannot drive, cannot go out in public without wearing a dress that covers their entire body and lack any independence or free will, all of this is sanctioned by sharia law, which came from Islam...this is Oppression!!! 

M1MyRifle

Women are only prohibhited to drive in Saudi Arabia.

And by the way, women have plenty of rights in islam. And they can do whatever they want as long as what they are doing is not sinful.

And about that divorce story, that is pretty bad. But she didn't do anything wrong. The man who killed her is who was wrong. 

Absolutely its the guys fault and he should be punished! But all he is getting is a slap on the wrist, and that is severely depressing.  And you said women can do whatever they want as long as its not sinful...who determines what is sinful? The male dominated governments of these countries? The religious leaders who are all male? Leaders who arent even elected and just dictate justice and order without any oversight?

Say what you want about the objectivication of women here in the west, but at least they are treated equally under the law and have to right to vote. 

I agree on the first one...that was not right of that guy to kill his ex-wife and barley get punished.

Sinful as in according to the Qur'an and Sunnah.

I and I did not say anything about how women are treated in the west. 

They wrongfully interpret the message of islam.

ghoklebutter

Cuz you dont want to...Thinker_reborn

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]

While you may consider me an extremist,I am not even close to that.If my style of posting reflected that then I would try to be more carefull about it.

Anyways here's a few sayings of the holy prophet which I am sure would give you a picture that Islam isnt the shallow,behind the times and restricted religion that you may think it is.

* The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr.

* People from the time of Adam onwards are as equal as the teeth of a comb. Arabs are not superior to non Arabs, nor are Redskinned people better than Blacks. No superiority or virture exists except in terms of Piety. 

* The Quest for knowledge I cherish, superior to God's worship.

* The love of the world, is the root of all evils. 

Now most muslims believe that if you dont believe in God and muhammad than you are going to hell just cuz of that.I personally dont believe in that and there really is no evidence of such a thing being true.There are several sayings of muhammad clearly indicating that God can forgive you for just about anything good.However that doesnt mean that if you have some good qualities than you are not going to hell for sure but it really is upon God.

The main thing that I want to pass on is that believing in God and mushammad really isnt 100% necessary to go to paradise.Many muslims may disagree with me but there doesnt seem to be any proof of that.

What I am saying is that Islam really is a fair religion overall.And here's something,

A bedouin came to the holy prophet Muhammad (s) and asked him some questions.

Bedouin: I wish to be the richest person in the world.

Prophet: Be content and you will be the richest person in the world.

Bedouin: I would like to be the most learned of people.

Prophet: Fear Allah and you will be the most learned of people.

Bedouin: I would like to be the most just of people.

Prophet: Desire for others what you would like for yourself and you would be the most just of people.

Bedouin: I would like to be the best of people.

Prophet: Be good to others and you will be the best of people.

Bedouin: I would like to be the most honorable of people.

Prophet: If you do not complain to any fellow humans you will be the most honorable of people.

Bedouin: I wish to be safe from Allah's Wrath on the Day of Judgment.

Prophet: If you do not lose your temper with any of your fellow humans, you will be safe from Allah's wrath on the Day of Judgment.

Bedouin: What are the worst evils in the sight of Allah?

Prophet: Hot temper and miserliness (i.e. selfishness with money).

That gives a pretty good picture of Islam and God is certainly not the cruel and angry fellow like some athesists think over here.

http://www.geocities.com/ahlulbayt14/SayingsProphet.html

ishoturface

For once and for all, Islam does NOT encourage to commit suicide (unless to save someones life) and murder innocent people.

Sigh...It is THIS stereotype makes muslims look like savages.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="limpbizkit818"]

It's not out of context, look it up if you need to.

Sura 5, Ayah 38

(that is how you say it, correct?)

The word hell is not used at all in the 5th Sura.

limpbizkit818

In the same sura:

[5:37] They will want to exit **Hell**, but alas, they can never exit therefrom; their retribution is eternal.

one reason why i say interpretation of ancient writings is confusing is because some believe " the fire " means purification.

[QUOTE="M1MyRifle"][QUOTE="thattotally"]

 

You'd prefer the objectifying of women right? Legalizing prostitution, having nude beaches, strip clubs, and basically just naked women all around right? Pfft. You're pathetic. And I don't know what you have seen, but just the fact that you've used that word clearly shows that you know nothing of Islam. Please get your facts straight before throwing around "the oppression of women!" and such. 

Also, these topics need to die. Now. TC, you're a disgrace to Muslims, and you need to stop forcing your beliefs on a gaming site. Just quit it for heaven sakes. Stop shoving all this down these users throats, get a life, and stop adding to the stereotype of all Muslims being annoying. You remember that, as muslims, it's our job NOT to annoy others about joining our religion, but paying attention to our own needs beforehand. So just quit it! Can we get a mod to lock all topics made by thinker_reborn, if they're not going to be intelligent light hearted discussions? Please?

thattotally

Comparing the brutal oppression of womens rights in islamic countries (other countries too, islam isnt the only factor) to strip clubs, nude beaches and legal prostitution is completely unfair.  Women have a choice to become strippers, they have a choice to be naked on beaches, and in countries where prostitution is legal and regulated, women have a choice to sell themelves.  In most of the islamic world, women dont have a choice to do anything of their own free will.  If i am correct i think there was a story recently about a women who was a victim of an acid attack because she had divorced her husband.  

Women cannot vote, cannot drive, cannot go out in public without wearing a dress that covers their entire body and lack any independence or free will, all of this is sanctioned by sharia law, which came from Islam...this is Oppression!!! 

No no no and no. Just because Saudia Arabia is seen as the "face of Islam" or whatever, doesn't mean that they are right. Or that it is Islam for that matter. SA, like all Arab countries, are just behind the times and completely idiotic, because they're Arabs. If they had your advancement and brain power, and if you Americans and Europeans had our (scratch that, not "our", but the Islamic) moral thinking and the like, then the world will be a better place. Alas, that will never happen. 

Women have a choice. And the only reason they don't, the only reason that such horrific things such as the Taliban society which exists in Afghanistan, is b/c they, them, those fools, are idiots. It has nothing to do with Islam, but the fact that Arabs are pure, moronic morons. Boy it gets my blood boiling how stupid Arabs are. 

And life is about sacrfice, so stop being such babies. I mean jeez, what is with all the whining? Now remember, it IS all women's choice, and there's nothing more respectable than a woman who, at 48 degrees Celsius, covers up her entire body out of modesty and respect to God. Do your women have strength such as that? 

So moral of the story, get. your. facts. straight. Thank You.

And why isn't this topic locked yet? Should I go to Ask the Mods? The TC is the worst representation of Islam ever. That's what I'd expect from a level 5 user after all. These topics need to end, and I'm going to put a stop to them. For the sake and goodness of Islam.

Well nobody has the right to vote in any islamic country besides Turkey.  Granted thats a human rights issue not just selective to women.  But Saudi Arabia is not the only Islamic country that oppresses women, in somalia and other sub-saharan african countries, they practice female circumcision, a brutal and painful procedure that no human being should be subject to.  

Why do women cover themselves up when its soo freaking hot out? Is it really their choice? Do you actually believe that this has nothing to do with their indoctrination into islam? If they had a real choice i dont think any of them would really do that. And what would happen to them if they chose to not cover themselves and maybe dress in western clothes? 

And your right, Arabs are not the only muslims, the most populous islamic country in the world is Indonesia.  But Islam needs to start being progressive concerning human rights, but unfortunately the opposite has been happening :(

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]If the person from whom the thief stole forgave him then he wont be punished.

 

In the west you can be jailed for slapping your own child.Now see the irony here?

chessmaster1989

Agreed with AirGuitarist87.... what's the irony?

Ergo, the original teachings are lost.AirGuitarist87

The extremists are interpreting islam wrongfully because they think that we should kill anyone who is against islam, which is not in the original teachings. 

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="M1MyRifle"]

Comparing the brutal oppression of womens rights in islamic countries (other countries too, islam isnt the only factor) to strip clubs, nude beaches and legal prostitution is completely unfair.  Women have a choice to become strippers, they have a choice to be naked on beaches, and in countries where prostitution is legal and regulated, women have a choice to sell themelves.  In most of the islamic world, women dont have a choice to do anything of their own free will.  If i am correct i think there was a story recently about a women who was a victim of an acid attack because she had divorced her husband.  

Women cannot vote, cannot drive, cannot go out in public without wearing a dress that covers their entire body and lack any independence or free will, all of this is sanctioned by sharia law, which came from Islam...this is Oppression!!! 

M1MyRifle

Women are only prohibhited to drive in Saudi Arabia.

And by the way, women have plenty of rights in islam. And they can do whatever they want as long as what they are doing is not sinful.

And about that divorce story, that is pretty bad. But she didn't do anything wrong. The man who killed her is who was wrong. 

Absolutely its the guys fault and he should be punished! But all he is getting is a slap on the wrist, and that is severely depressing.  And you said women can do whatever they want as long as its not sinful...who determines what is sinful? The male dominated governments of these countries? The religious leaders who are all male? Leaders who arent even elected and just dictate justice and order without any oversight?

Say what you want about the objectivication of women here in the west, but at least they are treated equally under the law and have to right to vote. 

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"][QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"] ...no? :|Thinker_reborn

Agreed with AirGuitarist87.... what's the irony?

....how is preventing child abuse 'strict' and 'behind the times.' Give me a break...

Besides, if you put someone in jail, you do not cause them permanent physical harm. You can't say the same about cutting off someone's hand... personally, I'd much rather go to jail than have my hand cut off...

[QUOTE="limpbizkit818"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

 

In the same sura:

[5:37] They will want to exit **Hell**, but alas, they can never exit therefrom; their retribution is eternal.

shyskillz

one reason why i say interpretation of ancient writings is confusing is because some believe " the fire " means purification.

And if you read a translation of the Qur'an, you would see that islam does not allow people to kill the innocent.

ghoklebutter

Right, so it all hinges on what the religion says about "guilt" and "innocence". Stoning someone to death for participation in pornography -- a punishment that relies on those definitions. It's easy to apply terms like "innocent" or "guilty" as almost meta-pronouns and make them seem profound, but the devil as it were is always in the details.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="limpbizkit818"]

 

It's not out of context, look it up if you need to.

Sura 5, Ayah 38

(that is how you say it, correct?)

The word hell is not used at all in the 5th Sura. 

limpbizkit818

In the same sura:

[5:37] They will want to exit **Hell**, but alas, they can never exit therefrom; their retribution is eternal.   

Well you can also be punished on the day of ressurection. So we are both right. :P 

And one more thing; the translations of the qur'an usually differ from book to book.

[QUOTE="M1MyRifle"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

Women are only prohibhited to drive in Saudi Arabia.

And by the way, women have plenty of rights in islam. And they can do whatever they want as long as what they are doing is not sinful.

And about that divorce story, that is pretty bad. But she didn't do anything wrong. The man who killed her is who was wrong. 

Thinker_reborn

Absolutely its the guys fault and he should be punished! But all he is getting is a slap on the wrist, and that is severely depressing.  And you said women can do whatever they want as long as its not sinful...who determines what is sinful? The male dominated governments of these countries? The religious leaders who are all male? Leaders who arent even elected and just dictate justice and order without any oversight?

Say what you want about the objectivication of women here in the west, but at least they are treated equally under the law and have to right to vote. 

Okay, i exaggerated, there are other islamic countries that allow you to vote, but according to this map it is far from being "most" islamic countries.

Map of the Islamic World

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

 

Agreed with AirGuitarist87.... what's the irony?

chessmaster1989

....how is preventing child abuse 'strict' and 'behind the times.' Give me a break...

Besides, if you put someone in jail, you do not cause them permanent physical harm. You can't say the same about cutting off someone's hand... personally, I'd much rather go to jail than have my hand cut off...

I mean you are trying to be simpathetic to someone who performed theft for no desperate need?

So you are saying that the person who commited the crime should have it his way in getting the punishment?:roll:

I mean you are trying to be simpathetic to someone who performed theft for no desperate need?

Thinker_reborn

No, I think it's rather obvious what he is saying -- cutting someone's hand off for theft is a harsh and extreme punishment, one that would make no sense at all outside of the context of a strong belief in a God that not everyone shares.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]Islam being a strict and behind the times religion?Thinker_reborn

....how is preventing child abuse 'strict' and 'behind the times.' Give me a break...

Besides, if you put someone in jail, you do not cause them permanent physical harm. You can't say the same about cutting off someone's hand... personally, I'd much rather go to jail than have my hand cut off...

I mean you are trying to be simpathetic to someone who performed theft for no desperate need?

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"][QUOTE="M1MyRifle"]

 

Absolutely its the guys fault and he should be punished! But all he is getting is a slap on the wrist, and that is severely depressing.  And you said women can do whatever they want as long as its not sinful...who determines what is sinful? The male dominated governments of these countries? The religious leaders who are all male? Leaders who arent even elected and just dictate justice and order without any oversight?

Say what you want about the objectivication of women here in the west, but at least they are treated equally under the law and have to right to vote. 

M1MyRifle

Okay, i exaggerated, there are other islamic countries that allow you to vote, but according to this map it is far from being "most" islamic countries.

Map of the Islamic World

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]Islam being a strict and behind the times religion?Thinker_reborn

....how is preventing child abuse 'strict' and 'behind the times.' Give me a break...

Besides, if you put someone in jail, you do not cause them permanent physical harm. You can't say the same about cutting off someone's hand... personally, I'd much rather go to jail than have my hand cut off...

I mean you are trying to be simpathetic to someone who performed theft for no desperate need?

Where the hell did you get that idea? I say, if someone steals from another, send that person to jail (or whatever other suitable punishment the jury sees fit). What I'm saying is that cutting off someone's hand is an absurd punishment, as it permanently disfigures the person and makes the person much less likely to be able to find a job, which makes the person more likely to become a burden to society.

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"][QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

 

....how is preventing child abuse 'strict' and 'behind the times.' Give me a break...

Besides, if you put someone in jail, you do not cause them permanent physical harm. You can't say the same about cutting off someone's hand... personally, I'd much rather go to jail than have my hand cut off...

-Sun_Tzu-

I mean you are trying to be simpathetic to someone who performed theft for no desperate need?

If they forgive that crime then they will be spared on the Day of Judgement.

Oh and by the way, their hands(unless they forgive) are ONLY cut off in hell (if they go there). 

[QUOTE="M1MyRifle"]

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]Women have the right to vote in most islamic countries.:|Thinker_reborn

Okay, i exaggerated, there are other islamic countries that allow you to vote, but according to this map it is far from being "most" islamic countries.

Map of the Islamic World

Are Religious Leaders elected? No they are not, so if a country claims to be an "islamic state" then no one has the right to vote, and it is in these countries where women are oppressed the most.