Islam isnt what the west percieves it to be....

That gives a pretty good picture of Islam and God is certainly not the cruel and angry fellow like some athesists think over here.

Thinker_reborn

I'm sorry, but the "God" that you worship is not the one, true God. Tell me why "your" God (of Islam) advocates suicide bombers killing innocent lives?

I... don't care. From what I have seen of Islamic culture, i don't like it. Most of all the oppresion of women. swizz-the-gamer

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]So you are saying that the person who commited the crime should have it his way in getting the punishment?:roll:

I mean you are trying to be simpathetic to someone who performed theft for no desperate need?

m0zart

No, I think it's rather obvious what he is saying -- cutting someone's hand off for theft is a harsh and extreme punishment, one that would make no sense at all outside of the context of a strong belief in a God that not everyone shares.

And I find jailing parents for "slapping"(far from child abuse sorry) their chilren unbelievably harsh and a disrepect to the world of parenthood.That's why parents in the west dont get the respect from their children that they deserve especially in their old age. 

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]

That gives a pretty good picture of Islam and God is certainly not the cruel and angry fellow like some athesists think over here.

Link1515

I'm sorry, but the "God" that you worship is not the one, true God. Tell me why "your" God (of Islam) advocates suicide bombers killing innocent lives?

[QUOTE="m0zart"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]So you are saying that the person who commited the crime should have it his way in getting the punishment?:roll:

I mean you are trying to be simpathetic to someone who performed theft for no desperate need?

Thinker_reborn

No, I think it's rather obvious what he is saying -- cutting someone's hand off for theft is a harsh and extreme punishment, one that would make no sense at all outside of the context of a strong belief in a God that not everyone shares.

And I find jailing parents for "slapping"(far from child abuse sorry) their chilren unbelievably harsh and a disrepect to the world of parenthood.That's why parents in the west dont get the respect from their children that they deserve especially in their old age. 

And you don't find cutting off someone's hand for stealing to be 'unbelievably harsh'... oh, and, by the way, your overgeneralization about 'parents in the west' is about as ignorant as half of the stuff that people out here say about Islam.

[QUOTE="thattotally"][QUOTE="M1MyRifle"]

 

Comparing the brutal oppression of womens rights in islamic countries (other countries too, islam isnt the only factor) to strip clubs, nude beaches and legal prostitution is completely unfair.  Women have a choice to become strippers, they have a choice to be naked on beaches, and in countries where prostitution is legal and regulated, women have a choice to sell themelves.  In most of the islamic world, women dont have a choice to do anything of their own free will.  If i am correct i think there was a story recently about a women who was a victim of an acid attack because she had divorced her husband.  

Women cannot vote, cannot drive, cannot go out in public without wearing a dress that covers their entire body and lack any independence or free will, all of this is sanctioned by sharia law, which came from Islam...this is Oppression!!! 

M1MyRifle

No no no and no. Just because Saudia Arabia is seen as the "face of Islam" or whatever, doesn't mean that they are right. Or that it is Islam for that matter. SA, like all Arab countries, are just behind the times and completely idiotic, because they're Arabs. If they had your advancement and brain power, and if you Americans and Europeans had our (scratch that, not "our", but the Islamic) moral thinking and the like, then the world will be a better place. Alas, that will never happen. 

Women have a choice. And the only reason they don't, the only reason that such horrific things such as the Taliban society which exists in Afghanistan, is b/c they, them, those fools, are idiots. It has nothing to do with Islam, but the fact that Arabs are pure, moronic morons. Boy it gets my blood boiling how stupid Arabs are. 

And life is about sacrfice, so stop being such babies. I mean jeez, what is with all the whining? Now remember, it IS all women's choice, and there's nothing more respectable than a woman who, at 48 degrees Celsius, covers up her entire body out of modesty and respect to God. Do your women have strength such as that? 

So moral of the story, get. your. facts. straight. Thank You.

And why isn't this topic locked yet? Should I go to Ask the Mods? The TC is the worst representation of Islam ever. That's what I'd expect from a level 5 user after all. These topics need to end, and I'm going to put a stop to them. For the sake and goodness of Islam.

Well nobody has the right to vote in any islamic country besides Turkey.  Granted thats a human rights issue not just selective to women.  But Saudi Arabia is not the only Islamic country that oppresses women, in somalia and other sub-saharan african countries, they practice female circumcision, a brutal and painful procedure that no human being should be subject to.  

Why do women cover themselves up when its soo freaking hot out? Is it really their choice? Do you actually believe that this has nothing to do with their indoctrination into islam? If they had a real choice i dont think any of them would really do that. And what would happen to them if they chose to not cover themselves and maybe dress in western clothes? 

And your right, Arabs are not the only muslims, the most populous islamic country in the world is Indonesia.  But Islam needs to start being progressive concerning human rights, but unfortunately the opposite has been happening :(

Um... what did I say about generalizations  :|  ? Please,  just... just... okay, for starters, guess which country's flag I have in my sig. Don't know? Thought so.

As for your second little... whatever, I'd just like to say that you have the stench of someone who's been so very brainwashed by your culture of vain, vulgar customs. Yes it is their choice, yes it is their choice, yes it is their choice. We have women who dress noramlly here, and we have fashion and everything. The only thing we're missing is women wearing short shorts and skirts with half a tank-top or whatever, and then parading around in public being angry at why men are whistling and drooling all over her (as I've heard, women actually like that, despite what they claim). While even that exists, it's not as apparent as the States, and worse, Europe (of course by Europe I tend to exclude UK, they shouldn't be branded with the rest of those undeveloped... people) 

And if they ever paraded around in a bikini and nothing else then all the modest, respectable women would turn their noses down on them and tsk tsk away at some of the morals that have been lost on youth. Not everything is perfect, and I'd go more into detail about that, but this a gaming forum after all, and I can't help but feel limited in our ways of communication. I'd much rather like to educate people face to face. And not go about it the way the tc is doing right now. yeesh. 

Islam is the most progressive towards human perfection and ultimate happiness, in this life and the next. It's Arabs he need to aquire half a brain and start smartening up. Though that won't be happening any time soon, as since most are poor and suffering and the rest are idiots that are wasting their life away.

If there's anything else I need to add please feel free to enlighten me, I've lost a few of my points along the way while dwelling on the stupidity and hypocrisy of Arabs, while facepalming at the tc's relentless need to make continuous topics about Islam and putting it in a worse light each time. 

[QUOTE="Link1515"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]

That gives a pretty good picture of Islam and God is certainly not the cruel and angry fellow like some athesists think over here.

Haziqonfire

I'm sorry, but the "God" that you worship is not the one, true God. Tell me why "your" God (of Islam) advocates suicide bombers killing innocent lives?

All religions do not lead to God, and they do not all worship the same one. I cannot believe you don't know this. If you read the Quran and then the Bible, you will plainly see that the "God" spoken of in each is not the same 'being'.

Why do people want everything in a religion to be up with prestine logic and reasoning and that also limited to their ability of thinking and interpreting.Why cant God be God for a change as in "it's cuz God says so"?Thinker_reborn

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"][QUOTE="M1MyRifle"]

 

Okay, i exaggerated, there are other islamic countries that allow you to vote, but according to this map it is far from being "most" islamic countries.

 

Map of the Islamic World

M1MyRifle

Are Religious Leaders elected? No they are not, so if a country claims to be an "islamic state" then no one has the right to vote, and it is in these countries where women are oppressed the most.  

Women DO vote over here.

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]

That gives a pretty good picture of Islam and God is certainly not the cruel and angry fellow like some athesists think over here.

Link1515

I'm sorry, but the "God" that you worship is not the one, true God. Tell me why "your" God (of Islam) advocates suicide bombers killing innocent lives?

just an fyi the god of Islam is the god of Christianity is the god of Judaism.

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]

That gives a pretty good picture of Islam and God is certainly not the cruel and angry fellow like some athesists think over here.

Link1515

I'm sorry, but the "God" that you worship is not the one, true God. Tell me why "your" God (of Islam) advocates suicide bombers killing innocent lives?

All religions do not lead to God, and they do not all worship the same one. I cannot believe you don't know this. If you read the Quran, and then the Bible, you will plainly see that they are not the same 'being'.

Link1515

I'm a Muslim myself, however, not religious at all. 

Though I still find it laughable you think Jihad and suicide bombings are one in the same.

Why do people want everything in a religion to be up with prestine logic and reasoning and that also limited to their ability of thinking and interpreting.Why cant God be God for a change as in "it's cuz God says so"?Thinker_reborn

Because I don't BELIEVE God says so. That's why. I don't even believe in your God. "God says so" is fine and dandy when you just want to apply it to yourself, but when you want to translate it into "And so now we're going to force it on you", you've went beyond what is reasonable.

]And I find jailing parents for "slapping"(far from child abuse sorry) their chilren unbelievably harsh and a disrepect to the world of parenthood.That's why parents in the west dont get the respect from their children that they deserve especially in their old age.Thinker_reborn

Being a proponent of spanking, I don't think just any such punishment of a child in a controlled manner that does no real physical harm is a bad idea, but again, the position you seem to be taking is that parenthood grants some endless lack of culpability on child abuse. There is a line in punshing a child that can be crossed, and any philosophical or religious opinion that says there should be no line out of some misguided respect for "parenthood" is confusing the role of parenting a child, something that is a duty and a privilege, with the role of owning cattle, something that is treated as a "right".

[QUOTE="Link1515"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]

That gives a pretty good picture of Islam and God is certainly not the cruel and angry fellow like some athesists think over here.

htekemerald

I'm sorry, but the "God" that you worship is not the one, true God. Tell me why "your" God (of Islam) advocates suicide bombers killing innocent lives?

just an fyi the god of Islam is the god of Christianity is the god of Judaism.

I'm sorry to inform you that you are blatantly wrong.  

[QUOTE="M1MyRifle"][QUOTE="thattotally"]

 

No no no and no. Just because Saudia Arabia is seen as the "face of Islam" or whatever, doesn't mean that they are right. Or that it is Islam for that matter. SA, like all Arab countries, are just behind the times and completely idiotic, because they're Arabs. If they had your advancement and brain power, and if you Americans and Europeans had our (scratch that, not "our", but the Islamic) moral thinking and the like, then the world will be a better place. Alas, that will never happen. 

Women have a choice. And the only reason they don't, the only reason that such horrific things such as the Taliban society which exists in Afghanistan, is b/c they, them, those fools, are idiots. It has nothing to do with Islam, but the fact that Arabs are pure, moronic morons. Boy it gets my blood boiling how stupid Arabs are. 

And life is about sacrfice, so stop being such babies. I mean jeez, what is with all the whining? Now remember, it IS all women's choice, and there's nothing more respectable than a woman who, at 48 degrees Celsius, covers up her entire body out of modesty and respect to God. Do your women have strength such as that? 

So moral of the story, get. your. facts. straight. Thank You.

And why isn't this topic locked yet? Should I go to Ask the Mods? The TC is the worst representation of Islam ever. That's what I'd expect from a level 5 user after all. These topics need to end, and I'm going to put a stop to them. For the sake and goodness of Islam.

thattotally

Well nobody has the right to vote in any islamic country besides Turkey.  Granted thats a human rights issue not just selective to women.  But Saudi Arabia is not the only Islamic country that oppresses women, in somalia and other sub-saharan african countries, they practice female circumcision, a brutal and painful procedure that no human being should be subject to.  

Why do women cover themselves up when its soo freaking hot out? Is it really their choice? Do you actually believe that this has nothing to do with their indoctrination into islam? If they had a real choice i dont think any of them would really do that. And what would happen to them if they chose to not cover themselves and maybe dress in western clothes? 

And your right, Arabs are not the only muslims, the most populous islamic country in the world is Indonesia.  But Islam needs to start being progressive concerning human rights, but unfortunately the opposite has been happening :(

Um... what did I say about generalizations  :|  ? Please,  just... just... okay, for starters, guess which country's flag I have in my sig. Don't know? Thought so.

As for your second little... whatever, I'd just like to say that you have the stench of someone who's been so very brainwashed by your culture of vain, vulgar customs. Yes it is their choice, yes it is their choice, yes it is their choice. We have women who dress noramlly here, and we have fashion and everything. The only thing we're missing is women wearing short shorts and skirts with half a tank-top or whatever, and then parading around in public being angry at why men are whistling and drooling all over her (as I've heard, women actually like that, despite what they claim). While even that exists, it's not as apparent as the States, and worse, Europe (of course by Europe I tend to exclude UK, they shouldn't be branded with the rest of those undeveloped... people) 

And if they ever paraded around in a bikini and nothing else then all the modest, respectable women would turn their noses down on them and tsk tsk away at some of the morals that have been lost on youth. Not everything is perfect, and I'd go more into detail about that, but this a gaming forum after all, and I can't help but feel limited in our ways of communication. I'd much rather like to educate people face to face. And not go about it the way the tc is doing right now. yeesh. 

Islam is the most progressive towards human perfection and ultimate happiness, in this life and the next. It's Arabs he need to aquire half a brain and start smartening up. Though that won't be happening any time soon, as since most are poor and suffering and the rest are idiots that are wasting their life away.

If there's anything else I need to add please feel free to enlighten me, I've lost a few of my points along the way while dwelling on the stupidity and hypocrisy of Arabs, while facepalming at the tc's relentless need to make continuous topics about Islam and putting it in a worse light each time. 

You should take your own advice about generalizations.  All Arabs aren't dumb and completely ignorant, and thats your opinion about Islam being the most "progressive"

Okay, just enlighten me on this, is it the general consensus within the Muslim World that the Koran, not people, that dictates Morals and Ethics?

[QUOTE="Link1515"]

All religions do not lead to God, and they do not all worship the same one. I cannot believe you don't know this. If you read the Quran, and then the Bible, you will plainly see that they are not the same 'being'.

Haziqonfire

I'm a Muslim myself, however, not religious at all. 

Though I still find it laughable you think Jihad and suicide bombings are one in the same.

"Jihad" is waging 'holy war' against infidels, is it not? Suicide bombings are done by muslims, even if they are extremists. Do you see Christians doing the same thing for their faith? 

[QUOTE="Link1515"][QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]

That gives a pretty good picture of Islam and God is certainly not the cruel and angry fellow like some athesists think over here.

htekemerald

I'm sorry, but the "God" that you worship is not the one, true God. Tell me why "your" God (of Islam) advocates suicide bombers killing innocent lives?

just an fyi the god of Islam is the god of Christianity is the god of Judaism.

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"][QUOTE="Link1515"]

All religions do not lead to God, and they do not all worship the same one. I cannot believe you don't know this. If you read the Quran, and then the Bible, you will plainly see that they are not the same 'being'.

Link1515

I'm a Muslim myself, however, not religious at all. 

Though I still find it laughable you think Jihad and suicide bombings are one in the same.

"Jihad" is waging 'holy war' against infidels, is it not? Suicide bombings are done by muslims, even if they are extremists. Do you see Christians doing the same thing for their faith? 

Thinker_reborn you arent coming off in the positive light right now. Reading this i've seen you say that Islam is the only religion that has stayed true to it's teachings then state that certain people in the religion don't follow it properly. I know you didn't say it but it's also been stated in this topic that the Koran has been translated differently almost every time it's been published. Every religion has been changed since it's conception the proof is pretty obvious.Ace6301

If somebody wants to then they can learn arabic and understand quran in 100% original form.

[QUOTE="htekemerald"][QUOTE="Link1515"]

 

I'm sorry, but the "God" that you worship is not the one, true God. Tell me why "your" God (of Islam) advocates suicide bombers killing innocent lives?

remmbermytitans

just an fyi the god of Islam is the god of Christianity is the god of Judaism.

Exactly. If all religions worshiped the same "God", why, over the thousands of years of history on earth, has there been hundreds and hundreds of battles fought over religion and differences in belief regarding God, etc? 

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"][QUOTE="Link1515"]

All religions do not lead to God, and they do not all worship the same one. I cannot believe you don't know this. If you read the Quran, and then the Bible, you will plainly see that they are not the same 'being'.

Link1515

I'm a Muslim myself, however, not religious at all. 

Though I still find it laughable you think Jihad and suicide bombings are one in the same.

"Jihad" is waging 'holy war' against infidels, is it not? Suicide bombings are done by muslims, even if they are extremists. Do you see Christians doing the same thing for their faith? 

[QUOTE="htekemerald"][QUOTE="Link1515"]

 

I'm sorry, but the "God" that you worship is not the one, true God. Tell me why "your" God (of Islam) advocates suicide bombers killing innocent lives?

remmbermytitans

just an fyi the god of Islam is the god of Christianity is the god of Judaism.

Islam is a religion.

[QUOTE="Link1515"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]

 

I'm a Muslim myself, however, not religious at all. 

Though I still find it laughable you think Jihad and suicide bombings are one in the same.

Haziqonfire

"Jihad" is waging 'holy war' against infidels, is it not? Suicide bombings are done by muslims, even if they are extremists. Do you see Christians doing the same thing for their faith? 

Just to inform you, I'm a citizen of Denmark and the U.S., and have lived in Europe the majority of my life. Do not tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh, by the way, you didn't answer my question. Why do we not see Christians doing the same thing (suicide bombings) for their faith? 

[QUOTE="Thinker_reborn"]So you are saying that the person who commited the crime should have it his way in getting the punishment?:roll:

I mean you are trying to be simpathetic to someone who performed theft for no desperate need?

m0zart

No, I think it's rather obvious what he is saying -- cutting someone's hand off for theft is a harsh and extreme punishment, one that would make no sense at all outside of the context of a strong belief in a God that not everyone shares.

I'd like to point out that it's not as simple as that. Again the tc is a horrible representative of Islam. Once I explain this simple point, which I'm sure you already might have guessed, I urge you to lock any and all topics by thinker_reborn. His apparent spreading of "the word of Islam" is simply appalling. We're on a gaming website for heaven sakes!

Now, a person does not have his hand chopped of by, say, stealing an apple off a cart. I'm sure many here are not dumb enough to believe such a thing, but I need to start slowly. We have rules and laws, boundaries, and the cutting of one's hand is only in extreme cases. I still remember the rules and stuff from religion class, but I won't share them here, due to obvious reasons. 

And no punishment is harsh for a crime. If it will stop people doing it, then hello, where's the problem... See, I understand that there's a lot of poor people in the world (I blame YOU people [generalizations GALORE] for this, due to acts of adultery and premarital sex, as well as the fact that you JUST CAN'T HOLD IT IN FOR 5 MINUTES!) but a crime is a crime. And even in Islam we have grey areas. But that's more due to how our "scholars" tend to interpret Islamic law, the Quran, and the words of Prophet Mohammed. 

If you have any questions feel free to ask me  :)  .

Right bro. Keep thinking what the western media is feeding you -- watch your "news" and believe in what they say. As I've said -- those Muslim's you see on TV are the rednecks of the middle east. A lot of those people are also uneducated and are manipulated by those extremist groups to believing what they believe. Haziqonfire

I tell you what. I ultimately agree with you that "Jihad" doesn't have to be "suicide bombings". So to help us along in that train of thought, why don't you define what real Jihad is and use a few examples to help isolate that from "what the western media is feeding [us]".

And in deference to your last post, I am glad you find the association of Jihad and suicide bombings absurd and laughable. I trust you are just as critical of the extremists who also makes those associations in announcements after organizing and enacting such a suicide bombing.

Thinker_reborn you arent coming off in the positive light right now. Reading this i've seen you say that Islam is the only religion that has stayed true to it's teachings then state that certain people in the religion don't follow it properly. I know you didn't say it but it's also been stated in this topic that the Koran has been translated differently almost every time it's been published. Every religion has been changed since it's conception the proof is pretty obvious. I also fail to see the irony how we come off as bad for punishing a parent for child abuse, something that can really mess up a kid. We aren't being sympathetic to the thieves as much as we're being sympathetic to the kid who probably had innocent intent in whatever he was doing or didn't fully understand the concequences of his actions. It's all in the eye of the beholder I suppose. If I were you I would honestly stop trying to convince everyone here that Islam is fundamentally "good" since you aren't coming off as having well thought out statements that dont contridict your previous writings. Keep in mind I don't see Islam as a breeding ground for terrorists as some do. It's just another religion. If their is a single part of it I disagree with most it's female circumcision. That's really a disgusting practice in my opinion. Ace6301

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"][QUOTE="Link1515"]

 

 

"Jihad" is waging 'holy war' against infidels, is it not? Suicide bombings are done by muslims, even if they are extremists. Do you see Christians doing the same thing for their faith? 

Link1515

Just to inform you, I'm a citizen of Denmark and the U.S., and have lived in Europe the majority of my life. Do not tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh, by the way, you didn't answer my question. Why do we not see Christians doing the same thing (suicide bombings) for their faith? 

Islam is a religion.

 

123625

Religion is mankind reaching out to God, while Christianity is a faith, where God reaches out to mankind. The latter is hardly the case with Islam. 

Just to inform you, I'm a citizen of Denmark and the U.S., and have lived in Europe the majority of my life. Do not tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh, by the way, you didn't answer my question. Why do we not see Christians doing the same thing (suicide bombings) for their faith?Link1515

Just to inform you, I'm a citizen of Denmark and the U.S., and have lived in Europe the majority of my life. Do not tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh, by the way, you didn't answer my question. Why do we not see Christians doing the same thing (suicide bombings) for their faith?

Link1515

[QUOTE="Link1515"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"] Right bro. Keep thinking what the western media is feeding you -- watch your "news" and believe in what they say. As I've said -- those Muslim's you see on TV are the rednecks of the middle east. A lot of those people are also uneducated and are manipulated by those extremist groups to believing what they believe. -Sun_Tzu-

Just to inform you, I'm a citizen of Denmark and the U.S., and have lived in Europe the majority of my life. Do not tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh, by the way, you didn't answer my question. Why do we not see Christians doing the same thing (suicide bombings) for their faith? 

You are right--the Crusades were carried out by-said 'Christians'. But during that time they misused the Bible and claimed everything to be in God's name, and stated that "God wills it"--and so they carried it out.  

[QUOTE="123625"]

Islam is a religion.

 

Link1515

Religion is mankind reaching out to God, while Christianity is a faith, where God reaches out to mankind. The latter is hardly the case with Islam. 

[QUOTE="123625"]

Islam is a religion.

Link1515

Religion is mankind reaching out to God, while Christianity is a faith, where God reaches out to mankind. The latter is hardly the case with Islam.

Both are religion, beleive it.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Link1515"]

 

Just to inform you, I'm a citizen of Denmark and the U.S., and have lived in Europe the majority of my life. Do not tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh, by the way, you didn't answer my question. Why do we not see Christians doing the same thing (suicide bombings) for their faith? 

Link1515

You are right--the Crusades were carried out by-said 'Christians'. But during that time they misused the Bible and claimed everything to be in God's name, and stated that "God wills it"--and so they carried it out.  

[QUOTE="Link1515"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"] Right bro. Keep thinking what the western media is feeding you -- watch your "news" and believe in what they say. As I've said -- those Muslim's you see on TV are the rednecks of the middle east. A lot of those people are also uneducated and are manipulated by those extremist groups to believing what they believe. thattotally

Just to inform you, I'm a citizen of Denmark and the U.S., and have lived in Europe the majority of my life. Do not tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh, by the way, you didn't answer my question. Why do we not see Christians doing the same thing (suicide bombings) for their faith? 

...  :|  . I should report you. For shame, and a level 30 user too. I'd've thought you'd had more sense than that.

Nothing I said is shameful in any way. I am being very sensible. 

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Link1515"]

 

Just to inform you, I'm a citizen of Denmark and the U.S., and have lived in Europe the majority of my life. Do not tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh, by the way, you didn't answer my question. Why do we not see Christians doing the same thing (suicide bombings) for their faith? 

Link1515

You are right--the Crusades were carried out by-said 'Christians'. But during that time they misused the Bible and claimed everything to be in God's name, and stated that "God wills it"--and so they carried it out.  

And no punishment is harsh for a crime. If it will stop people doing it, then hello, where's the problem... See, I understand that there's a lot of poor people in the world (I blame YOU people [generalizations GALORE] for this, due to acts of adultery and premarital sex, as well as the fact that you JUST CAN'T HOLD IT IN FOR 5 MINUTES!) but a crime is a crime. And even in Islam we have grey areas. But that's more due to how our "scholars" tend to interpret Islamic law, the Quran, and the words of Prophet Mohammed.thattotally

No punishment is too harsh for a crime? Seriously? That is in and of itself an unrealistic statement.

Your original example of "stealing an apple" not leading to the cutting off of hands seems rather wasted after hearing that. Were you able to make that disassociation to the cruelty of the punishment only because you don't think apple stealing is a big problem in general? If apple stealing were more common, are you saying that cutting off the hands of apple stealers wouldn't be too harsh? What about life in prison without parole? What about... execution?

Is there no concept in Islam of the punishment fitting the individual severity of the crime? Is it always based on the means to the end based on a collectivist judgement of all thiefdom rather than the justifiability of the action based on the degree of the individual crime?

Thinker_reborn you arent coming off in the positive light right now. Reading this i've seen you say that Islam is the only religion that has stayed true to it's teachings then state that certain people in the religion don't follow it properly. I know you didn't say it but it's also been stated in this topic that the Koran has been translated differently almost every time it's been published. Every religion has been changed since it's conception the proof is pretty obvious. I also fail to see the irony how we come off as bad for punishing a parent for child abuse, something that can really mess up a kid. We aren't being sympathetic to the thieves as much as we're being sympathetic to the kid who probably had innocent intent in whatever he was doing or didn't fully understand the concequences of his actions. It's all in the eye of the beholder I suppose. If I were you I would honestly stop trying to convince everyone here that Islam is fundamentally "good" since you aren't coming off as having well thought out statements that dont contridict your previous writings. Keep in mind I don't see Islam as a breeding ground for terrorists as some do. It's just another religion. If their is a single part of it I disagree with most it's female circumcision. That's really a disgusting practice in my opinion. Ace6301

Stress on the word TRANSLATION. :|

And female circumcision is prhibhited in islam. 

[QUOTE="Link1515"][QUOTE="123625"]

Islam is a religion.

 

123625

Religion is mankind reaching out to God, while Christianity is a faith, where God reaches out to mankind. The latter is hardly the case with Islam.

Both are religion, beleive it.

Not so. Islam has many set rules and traditions, such as praying a certain number of times per day while facing towards Mecca. Others, like Buddhism, as is with many, require frequent pilgrimages to 'holy sites'. If you truly delve into what Christianity is, you will see that it is a huge contrast to the many 'religions' (praticed beliefs and traditions) of the day.

[QUOTE="Link1515"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Ah yes, because Christianity never had any holy wars like the Crusades right? Stop making generalizations.-Sun_Tzu-

You are right--the Crusades were carried out by-said 'Christians'. But during that time they misused the Bible and claimed everything to be in God's name, and stated that "God wills it"--and so they carried it out.  

Why then were the Crusades carried out for just a short short period of time, while "Jihad" has been praticed, in the sense of extremist bombings and killings of innocent people, for centuries and centuries? 

Jihad means to struggle.Parents struggle to educate their children is a type of Jihad.One's inner struggle to control his urges is a Jihad (Jihad bin Nafs). If an islamic state is assaulted then, if muslims struggle and fight for the defense of Islam, then it is Jihad. However, muslims are not allowed to begin hostilities in any manner.

Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.(Quran 2:190)

So it's like allowing muslims to fight, in case they are attacked. An example, if USA is attacked and it's army defends the nation and fight back, are they wrong?

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Link1515"]

 

You are right--the Crusades were carried out by-said 'Christians'. But during that time they misused the Bible and claimed everything to be in God's name, and stated that "God wills it"--and so they carried it out.  

Link1515

Why then were the Crusades carried out for just a short short period of time, while "Jihad" has been praticed, in the sense of extremist bombings and killings of innocent people, for centuries and centuries? 

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Link1515"]

You are right--the Crusades were carried out by-said 'Christians'. But during that time they misused the Bible and claimed everything to be in God's name, and stated that "God wills it"--and so they carried it out.

Link1515

Why then were the Crusades carried out for just a short short period of time, while "Jihad" has been praticed, in the sense of extremist bombings and killings of innocent people, for centuries and centuries?