Israeli Soldiers Beating Women

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

This has probably already been said before, since there are 20 pages, but there's a gunshot at 0:24-0:25.

ROFLCOPTER603

These are palestinians they're attacking right?If soI doubt it's rubber bullets.

This vid leaves so much to our imagination, discussing this is not only pointless but it leads to people thinking irrational stuff.
So please stop this thread. :roll:

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] what youre hearing could be anything, it could be tear gas being fired too ,exactly for the purpose of dispersing them without live fire. it could also be rubber bullets.rastotm

These are palestinians they're attacking right?If soI doubt it's rubber bullets.

This vid leaves so much to our imagination, discussing this is not only pointless but it leads to people thinking irrational stuff.
So please stop this thread. :roll:

Irrational? So what I think is less valuable than your opinion? The Israelis hate the palestinians, for good reason. They aren't above shooting at civilians.

This vid leaves so much to our imagination, discussing this is not only pointless but it leads to people thinking irrational stuff.
So please stop this thread. :roll:

rastotm

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

These are palestinians they're attacking right?If soI doubt it's rubber bullets.

ROFLCOPTER603

This vid leaves so much to our imagination, discussing this is not only pointless but it leads to people thinking irrational stuff.
So please stop this thread. :roll:

Irrational? So what I think is less valuable than your opinion? The Israelis hate the palestinians, for good reason. They aren't above shooting at civilians.

You are awsome at taking things out of context and forging a pointless argument with it.
The irrational stuff was a referance to people getting stupid idea's from this thread.

You do realize threads like this, cause people to form a opinion about the israelian/palasitian debate based on misinformation. Which i find a bad thing.

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

This vid leaves so much to our imagination, discussing this is not only pointless but it leads to people thinking irrational stuff.
So please stop this thread. :roll:

rastotm

Irrational? So what I think is less valuable than your opinion? The Israelis hate the palestinians, for good reason. They aren't above shooting at civilians.

You are awsome at taking things out of context and forging a pointless argument with it.
The irrational stuff was a referance to people getting stupid idea's from this thread.

You do realize threads like this, cause people to form a opinion about the israelian/palasitian debate based on misinformation. Which i find a bad thing.

You quoted me and then said "but it leads to people thinking irrational stuff". Taken in or out of context it looks like you're calling my thoughts irrational.

My thoughts weren't based on misinformation. I was specifically thinking of the operation done by the Israelis after the Munich Olympics when I said that the Israelis aren't above targeting civilians. That is dated, but the Israelis do the same thing in modern times, and that is a fact. I do agree that people form opinions on misinformation, but this will happen in any thread.

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

These are palestinians they're attacking right?If soI doubt it's rubber bullets.

ROFLCOPTER603

This vid leaves so much to our imagination, discussing this is not only pointless but it leads to people thinking irrational stuff.
So please stop this thread. :roll:

Irrational? So what I think is less valuable than your opinion? The Israelis hate the palestinians, for good reason. They aren't above shooting at civilians.

we might not be their best friends, but most soldiers are above simply shooting at people for no reason.

the Israeli psyche and way of thinking is not "if you see an Arab , shoot him", thats just stupid.

if you really wanted to know what the Israeli way of thinking is, I would suggest looking at your hand.

see 5 fingers? they are all different right? well in exactly the same way, everybody in Israel has a different opinion , hatred, ideology, people are not all robots.

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

Irrational? So what I think is less valuable than your opinion? The Israelis hate the palestinians, for good reason. They aren't above shooting at civilians.

ROFLCOPTER603

You are awsome at taking things out of context and forging a pointless argument with it.
The irrational stuff was a referance to people getting stupid idea's from this thread.

You do realize threads like this, cause people to form a opinion about the israelian/palasitian debate based on misinformation. Which i find a bad thing.

You quoted me and then said "but it leads to people thinking irrational stuff". Taken in or out of context it looks like you're calling my thoughts irrational.

My thoughts weren't based on misinformation. I was specifically thinking of the operation done by the Israelis after the Munich Olympics when I said that the Israelis aren't above targeting civilians. That is dated, but the Israelis do the same thing in modern times, and that is a fact. I do agree that people form opinions on misinformation, but this will happen in any thread.

You hear a sound that resembles a gunshot and you immediatly assume it is a gunshot, add in the fact that this video is horrid and edited.
Even if it is a gunshot, it is questional wether that gunshot is actually relevant, not every shot that is fired kills a person.
I used your post as a example but I pointed out to the video in specific.

On a sidenot: Wars without the involvement of civillians are illusions.

Furthermore, the fact that misinformation can happen in any thread doesn't mean that we shouldn't attempt to avoid such things.

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

You are awsome at taking things out of context and forging a pointless argument with it.
The irrational stuff was a referance to people getting stupid idea's from this thread.

You do realize threads like this, cause people to form a opinion about the israelian/palasitian debate based on misinformation. Which i find a bad thing.

rastotm

You quoted me and then said "but it leads to people thinking irrational stuff". Taken in or out of context it looks like you're calling my thoughts irrational.

My thoughts weren't based on misinformation. I was specifically thinking of the operation done by the Israelis after the Munich Olympics when I said that the Israelis aren't above targeting civilians. That is dated, but the Israelis do the same thing in modern times, and that is a fact. I do agree that people form opinions on misinformation, but this will happen in any thread.

You hear a sound that resembles a gunshot and you immediatly assume it is a gunshot, add in the fact that this video is horrid and edited.
Even if it is a gunshot, it is questional wether that gunshot is actually relevant, not every shot that is fired kills a person.
I used your post as a example but I pointed out to the video in specific.

On a sidenot: Wars without the involvement of civillians are illusions.

Furthermore, the fact that misinformation can happen in any thread doesn't mean that we shouldn't attempt to avoid such things.

its actually quite common in the Middle East (and probably elsewhere in the world) to fire a few shots up the air to scare off the crowd. it might have been that too.

[QUOTE="mayceV"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] exactly two wrongs don't make a right, but that is the past, you can't change it , which is why my plan is the most fair, the Jews get compensation, and from that around 1/4 will go to the Palestinians, or however much the compensation for them goes to. like I said, the amount of land and property stolen from us is 4 times what the Palestinians lost, so there is more then enough. technically my family should get compensation as well from Morocco, my great grandad owned a furniture factory and shop in Marrakesh, the family lived well, the my grandma went to private school , and they even had a caretaker for the children, they weren't rich , but they lived well. now my great grandfather didn't get any money or compensation for the factory or shop which he had , by law , to leave beheind, he also got no money for the property which he was forced to live behined , so I should get money as well. sadly he died last year so he isnt getting anything. and if anyone tells you the Jews all left because of zionism they are talking rubbish , there was some zionism , but who in their right mind would leave a relatively comfortable life, have his property and land taken from (with no money given for that land and property) him and go live in Israel which at the time was suffering from food shortages. if Israel is expected to take care of the several million Palestninan refugees, the Arab world can take care of the 3.5 million Jews from the Arab world and their decendents. and again , I never said any of those things don't happen , the majority of what you said was right, thats the thing, we conduct inquiries , and if someone is found guilty, he gets punished, while Hamas celebrate if they kill civilans (they were giving out sweets to children in Rafiah and Gaza due to the murder of the Forgel family a few months ago , when 3 children , including a little baby , were stabbed by 2 Palestinians), I don't , and I would like to see Hamas appoligising and punishing any of their members for killing my people.Darkman2007

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="mayceV"] problem is with Isreali inquiries is that durring theentire siege on Gaza there aparently was 1 war crime. an IDF soldier stole a credit card... come on even the most blind Isreali suporter would know that's complete BS. Also IDK how the compensation would work but I wouldn't want thevalue of 150 dunams to be slashed to 37.5 that is fair in any way. do you still have the deeds? if you do then you can demand it I think. but also the same thing can be said for the palestians that were forced off thier lnd in 1948. you say there are 1000000 arabs? but that's after two generations, arabs traditionally have like 4-6 kids(my grandma on my moms side had 11 and on my dad's side 6). so there were many expelled off thier land( no other way I'm serious Arab spawn armies of children wether they can afford to feed them ornot it's just our culture). It probably wasn't as bad as the Jewish expepusion but it certianlly didhappen I mean in my village I doubt all 7000 would abbandon a village older than Abraham himself it doesn't make sense. so it goes both ways. Thing is the Land we had is probably extremely expensive now( its under tel aviv). IDk how they'll do the compesnsation and since we obviously can't take the land to ourselves ( its built up now). mayceV

The Canaanites should just give the land back to Palestine and settle under the sea with Sebastian and the rest of the gang

[QUOTE="mayceV"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] whatever compensation you want, any compensation I get will be more, it doesnt matter if the land is expensive or not , there will be more then enough to pay. if one is needed, an independent commision can be established to figure out how much compensation everybody gets, its the fairest solution to everything. and nobody has their deeds or keys to their house, how could they? they gave the keys to local officials, policemen and other governement figures, it was the laws in those countries at the time, that when a Jew leaves/gets evicted, he gives the deeds and almost all his property to the state (those governements made billions in stolen property) its ironic, but its the Jews from Mizrachi and Sephardic communities (ie , Middle East and North Africa) are the ones who vote for the right wing parties the most in Israel, though they also tend to be traditionally worse off then the Ashkenazi Jews (though its nowhere near as bad as it was 30 years ago) if the Arabs want compensation from me. fine, but I want compensation from them . and nobody denies the Palestinian Arabs were expelled/ran away/left hoping to return (its a combination of all 3), but if I went to ask any Arab leader for compensation , he would deny there were ever Jews in his country, and thus there is no compensation. after all , there are only a few thousand Jews left now in the Middle East (around 30 thousand more in Iran) , down from a million 60 years ago , so it seems perfectly plausable to cover it up. whats worse is that while Israel did its best to absorb our refugee problems, the Arab world did nothing for the Palestinians, instead keeping them in misery for years and using them as political tools (you can't deny that) and again , if you want deeper investigations on the Israeli side, you have to be moral on both sides, and demand that Hamas do the exact same thing, they too have more then enough blood on their hands.Darkman2007

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] what youre hearing could be anything, it could be tear gas being fired too ,exactly for the purpose of dispersing them without live fire. it could also be rubber bullets.rastotm

These are palestinians they're attacking right?If soI doubt it's rubber bullets.

This vid leaves so much to our imagination, discussing this is not only pointless but it leads to people thinking irrational stuff.
So please stop this thread. :roll:

Yeah but if it was palestinians doing the same thing they will be quickly blamed, judged and sentenced as terrorists by almost everyone here.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="mayceV"] lol, you're giht about arabs not helping refgees. heck there was a civil war in Jordan due to refugees comming in too fast. Also I'm not sure what kind of proof a Jew can put forth if he does't have the deed. Thats the thing most of the palestians I know actually have the deeds. (also you'd be suprised how many people believe that there was no expulsion of palestians and that they all ran away which is utter BS). Also hamas is a crazed islamist grop and they have support because of they help the gaza strip as much as they can . they still are unorganized and don't understand the rules of Jihad apparently ( Jihad condemns the killing of civilians) now IDK why they'd celebrate such a pathetic thing ( killing a civilian doesn't exactly change anything really) but that doesn't give the riht for the IDF to commit hideous war crimes like they do. Hamas is in charge of the Gaza strp, true but that doesn't make the palestinians evil. You'd be suprised to know that there are Plaestians in palestine that condemn the suicide bombings and killing of civilians. (in reality suicide bombing to kill civilians, or even taregts tht have not much value is forbbiden(and still in dicsussion between the Ulma on the status of Suicide bombing its confirmed that if it to attack civilians you'll be damned). Why am i telling you this? its because the Palestians are fueled by religion, its all they have and all they follow. mayceV

people here have blind hate for isreal and jews. IDK how it is in the rest of the arab world since here its a bit biased since jordan was affected pretty negativly by the entire conflict. But people here think isreal is like the west. like Europe and the US since those countries support it. People here also think that Jews hate arabs and think the Jews believe they are higher than the arabs (muslim or not). Also as I told you media here doesn't explain anything well it not even single handedly against isreal infact there was a report that a palestinian child was trying to use explosives to destroy a tank (it turned out to be fire crackers...) Thing is you never see isrealis openly opposing the occupation(I only realized there were a year or two back). it a mixture of misinformation thanks to the media and the negative aspects from the crisis as a whole that make it hard for either side to know about the other.mayceV

The hell are you talking about if you actually read the history of the region, especially current writtings.. You will see a contridiction to what has happenign for decades.. Israel for decades was constantly white washed as a victim that was completely innocent of everything... Only for the past 2 and a half decades have they had real criticism leveled towards them.. This claim that Israel has always been demonized is in fact a blantant lie, that if you were to read history it is in fact the exact opposite.. Where the public and historians accepted Israel's side of the story the majority of time as fact.. The revisionist historians only recently began looking outside of that.. This isn't saying Israel is Satan incarnate, but your interpretation of the matter is in fact wrong historically.. Palestinians weren't even recognized internationally until the 1990's..

people here have blind hate for isreal and jews. IDK how it is in the rest of the arab world since here its a bit biased since jordan was affected pretty negativly by the entire conflict. But people here think isreal is like the west. like Europe and the US since those countries support it. People here also think that Jews hate arabs and think the Jews believe they are higher than the arabs (muslim or not). Also as I told you media here doesn't explain anything well it not even single handedly against isreal infact there was a report that a palestinian child was trying to use explosives to destroy a tank (it turned out to be fire crackers...) Thing is you never see isrealis openly opposing the occupation(I only realized there were a year or two back). it a mixture of misinformation thanks to the media and the negative aspects from the crisis as a whole that make it hard for either side to know about the other.mayceV

[QUOTE="mayceV"]people here have blind hate for isreal and jews. IDK how it is in the rest of the arab world since here its a bit biased since jordan was affected pretty negativly by the entire conflict. But people here think isreal is like the west. like Europe and the US since those countries support it. People here also think that Jews hate arabs and think the Jews believe they are higher than the arabs (muslim or not). Also as I told you media here doesn't explain anything well it not even single handedly against isreal infact there was a report that a palestinian child was trying to use explosives to destroy a tank (it turned out to be fire crackers...) Thing is you never see isrealis openly opposing the occupation(I only realized there were a year or two back). it a mixture of misinformation thanks to the media and the negative aspects from the crisis as a whole that make it hard for either side to know about the other.sSubZerOo

The hell are you talking about if you actually read the history of the region, especially current writtings.. You will see a contridiction to what has happenign for decades.. Israel for decades was constantly white washed as a victim that was completely innocent of everything... Only for the past 2 and a half decades have they had real criticism leveled towards them.. This claim that Israel has always been demonized is in fact a blantant lie, that if you were to read history it is in fact the exact opposite.. Where the public and historians accepted Israel's side of the story the majority of time as fact.. The revisionist historians only recently began looking outside of that.. This isn't saying Israel is Satan incarnate, but your interpretation of the matter is in fact wrong historically.. Palestinians weren't even recognized internationally until the 1990's..

yeah they have been white washed in Western countries as being shown as victims. here in the middle east....the media just blasts everything ( arab or not). You do realize why though right sSubZerOo? because media in the west wants you to side with Isreal rather than see what really happens durring the occupation since the government of those countries are allies with Isreal Or have hamas listed as a terrorist group. However 2-3 decades ago the internet gained wide spread use and people would realize the single sidedness of the news back then that's not good for ratings. So it improved a bit. here however its still blasts everything.

[QUOTE="mayceV"]people here have blind hate for isreal and jews. IDK how it is in the rest of the arab world since here its a bit biased since jordan was affected pretty negativly by the entire conflict. But people here think isreal is like the west. like Europe and the US since those countries support it. People here also think that Jews hate arabs and think the Jews believe they are higher than the arabs (muslim or not). Also as I told you media here doesn't explain anything well it not even single handedly against isreal infact there was a report that a palestinian child was trying to use explosives to destroy a tank (it turned out to be fire crackers...) Thing is you never see isrealis openly opposing the occupation(I only realized there were a year or two back). it a mixture of misinformation thanks to the media and the negative aspects from the crisis as a whole that make it hard for either side to know about the other.Darkman2007

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="mayceV"]people here have blind hate for isreal and jews. IDK how it is in the rest of the arab world since here its a bit biased since jordan was affected pretty negativly by the entire conflict. But people here think isreal is like the west. like Europe and the US since those countries support it. People here also think that Jews hate arabs and think the Jews believe they are higher than the arabs (muslim or not). Also as I told you media here doesn't explain anything well it not even single handedly against isreal infact there was a report that a palestinian child was trying to use explosives to destroy a tank (it turned out to be fire crackers...) Thing is you never see isrealis openly opposing the occupation(I only realized there were a year or two back). it a mixture of misinformation thanks to the media and the negative aspects from the crisis as a whole that make it hard for either side to know about the other.mayceV

Man, I love when people use LCDs or go with only one side of the story to make a point.

No way! Israel are the good guys and the muslims are the baddies! Yes that was sarcasm. How can anyone think that dragging defenceless women by the hair and beating them is acceptable under any circumstance? Don't anyone dare say "I don't know the situation so I won't comment".Anyone with any human decency can see this is wrong.

It doesn't matter though because America will continue sucking up to Israel. They are evidently supporting woman beating, and I can guarantee this is probably a slap on the wrist compared to what some experience. What a lovely world.

No way! Israel are the good guys and the muslims are the baddies! Yes that was sarcasm. How can anyone think that dragging defenceless women by the hair and beating them is acceptable under any circumstance? Don't anyone dare say "I don't know the situation so I won't comment".Anyone with any human decency can see this is wrong.

It doesn't matter though because America will continue sucking up to Israel. They are evidently supporting woman beating, and I can guarantee this is probably a slap on the wrist compared to what some experience. What a lovely world.

Asim90

No, because you don't know the situation. That pretty much precludes all judgement. Making a judgement will be based on what you want to be happening and what you want others to think is happening.

[QUOTE="m25105"][QUOTE="Victorious_Fize"]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwgw3HkyVos&feature=feedf

Thoughts? Can anyone tell me what the hell lead up to this. And where the **** are they taking the girl in 0:17?

magicalclick

do people ever realise the Middle East is not western Europe where everything is nice and dandy and where states never invade each other and use others for political gain?

The middle east has a whole history of countries invading each other, destabalising each other and using them for political gain

and which people's borders (other then the Palestinians if you call that an invasion) Israel invading.

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

No way! Israel are the good guys and the muslims are the baddies! Yes that was sarcasm. How can anyone think that dragging defenceless women by the hair and beating them is acceptable under any circumstance? Don't anyone dare say "I don't know the situation so I won't comment".Anyone with any human decency can see this is wrong.

It doesn't matter though because America will continue sucking up to Israel. They are evidently supporting woman beating, and I can guarantee this is probably a slap on the wrist compared to what some experience. What a lovely world.

789shadow

No, because you don't know the situation. That pretty much precludes all judgement. Making a judgement will be based on what you want to be happening and what you want others to think is happening.

That is absolute nonsense. Even in the most extreme situation imaginable, which is obviously not the case here since NONE of the civilians are being violent. But if it was, the soldiers are more than capable of splitting the crowd using reasonable force. Are you saying its okay to drag a women by her hair and beat her up? There is no justification for that. Three soldiers were attacking one women for crying out loud! If you are you are a violent extremist.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

No way! Israel are the good guys and the muslims are the baddies! Yes that was sarcasm. How can anyone think that dragging defenceless women by the hair and beating them is acceptable under any circumstance? Don't anyone dare say "I don't know the situation so I won't comment".Anyone with any human decency can see this is wrong.

It doesn't matter though because America will continue sucking up to Israel. They are evidently supporting woman beating, and I can guarantee this is probably a slap on the wrist compared to what some experience. What a lovely world.

Asim90

No, because you don't know the situation. That pretty much precludes all judgement. Making a judgement will be based on what you want to be happening and what you want others to think is happening.

That is absolute nonsense. Even in the most extreme situation imaginable, which is obviously not the case here since NONE of the civilians are being violent. But if it was, the soldiers are more than capable of splitting the crowd using reasonable force. Are you saying its okay to drag a women by her hair and beat her up? There is no justification for that. Three soldiers were attacking one women for crying out loud! If you are you are a violent extremist.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="magicalclick"] Do they ever apologies and finally stop invading other people's boarders?

magicalclick

do people ever realise the Middle East is not western Europe where everything is nice and dandy and where states never invade each other and use others for political gain?

The middle east has a whole history of countries invading each other, destabalising each other and using them for political gain

and which people's borders (other then the Palestinians if you call that an invasion) Israel invading.

I am refering to Obama's comment on Israel, which Mrs Clinton has already failed to stop.

[QUOTE="mayceV"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] we can barely agree with each other on anything internal , let alone external, and this is reflected in our politics. and Im not sure where they get the "Jews think they are better" thing, sure, Ive heard Rabbi Ovadia call the Palestinians evil (funny thing is that he had a good relationship with Mubarak), but thats no different then the occasional Imam comparing the Jews to pigs and apes, Ive seen it, it happens, and its unavoidalbe (besides, Ovadia is well known for occasionally saying something silly) any sort of racism in Israel stems almost exclusively from politics, you drive by Arab towns like Um El Fahem and Taybe, and if there is a political rally, you occasionally see hamas flags, and even Hezbollah flags. now I understand if they want to support their brothers in the west bank and Gaza, thats their choice because they live in a democracy, but Hamas and Hezbollah? surely you can see how things like that annoy people (just as bad as if someone in the west bank said he supports the settler movement) which leads to racism on the other hand the Druze have no racism against them , exactly because they do the opposite, in fact they get more respect then any other minority. and racism happens against anybody, Europeans get called so people in Israel don't consider themselves, "better" , but there is political racism , that is undeniable as far as Israel being like the US, sure, its more western then the rest of the region , Ill even say Tel Aviv looks like a small Miami but its not quite the same as the US. and our politics are more convoluted. and the Europeans don't support it, their support is rather spotty and sometimes not there , so much so that the term "yefe Nefesh" gets used to describe them (essentially calling them hypocrits and morally inferior), and even people on the extreme left get called that (along with things like defeatist and traitor, and all the rest of that) so racism happens , wheter its right or wrong, it happens, but its not a matter of "we are better or not" you need to watch some Israeli TV , its actually quite interesting if you want to see how Israelies view their neighbours, which is more complex then just positive or negative (just like almost anything else in Israel)Darkman2007

Not giving a opinion for this from a video that is edited to sky high and doesn't give the full story...

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

No, because you don't know the situation. That pretty much precludes all judgement. Making a judgement will be based on what you want to be happening and what you want others to think is happening.

Darkman2007

That is absolute nonsense. Even in the most extreme situation imaginable, which is obviously not the case here since NONE of the civilians are being violent. But if it was, the soldiers are more than capable of splitting the crowd using reasonable force. Are you saying its okay to drag a women by her hair and beat her up? There is no justification for that. Three soldiers were attacking one women for crying out loud! If you are you are a violent extremist.

Reasonable force would constitute moving people apart without beating them unnecessarily with bats or restraining them with cuffs. That behaviour was unacceptable, I hope you agree with me on that. "They may have been violent beforehand" Really? A group of middle aged women were so violent towards trained soldiers in armour that they had to beat them. Never heard something so ludicrous in my entire life.

Not giving a opinion for this from a video that is edited to sky high and doesn't give the full story...

Wanderer5

But would you give an opinion if it was a bunch of muslim men beating up a jewish lady? I'm not commenting on you personally, but I think a lot of people here would.

[QUOTE="Wanderer5"]

Not giving a opinion for this from a video that is edited to sky high and doesn't give the full story...

Asim90

But would you give an opinion if it was a bunch of muslim men beating up a jewish lady? I'm not commenting on you personally, but I think a lot of people here would.

Depends on the context. Ifgiven the full story and thosemen were beating her for no reason then I would give the opinion that it is insane. Otherwise it could go many ways on why the event started and such.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="mayceV"] it actually suprising you know? after the reconciliation deal between hamas and fateh everyone has been flocking to the support of Palestinian statehood. Russia India China even the EU is not ruling out support. A bunch more countries are deciding to flip thier vote to yes ( around 20 or so) This'll put pressure on the US not to Veto (since they're the only ones that'll actually Veto a vote like this). If statehood is achieved this August then Negotiations will follow and maybe an end to this 63 year conflict. However if it doesn't then only God knows when negotiations will start since natenyahu won't stop building settlement or recognize the 1967 borders as a palce to start the land swaps.mayceV

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="Asim90"]

That is absolute nonsense. Even in the most extreme situation imaginable, which is obviously not the case here since NONE of the civilians are being violent. But if it was, the soldiers are more than capable of splitting the crowd using reasonable force. Are you saying its okay to drag a women by her hair and beat her up? There is no justification for that. Three soldiers were attacking one women for crying out loud! If you are you are a violent extremist.

Asim90

Reasonable force would constitute moving people apart without beating them unnecessarily with bats or restraining them with cuffs. That behaviour was unacceptable, I hope you agree with me on that. "They may have been violent beforehand" Really? A group of middle aged women were so violent towards trained soldiers in armour that they had to beat them. Never heard something so ludicrous in my entire life.

[QUOTE="mayceV"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] there are 2 possible situations. 1) negotiations. 2) the state of Palestine will get treated as a de jura enemy state no different then Lebanon or Syria , (with any west bank territory termed still controlled by Israel treated like the Sinai in the 70s or the Golan). which will mean the border getting closed completely , and Israel cutting off Gaza's electricity supply , believe it or not, Israel supplies Gaza with around 70% of its electricity at Israel's expense. Ive already said what my personal position is , I would be willing to give almost all of the west bank apart from the major settlements near the border (land swaps can deal with that), and even the neighbourhoods in east Jerusalem like Silwan , but not the old city, any religious considerations can be worked out. in return I want normal relations with all the neighbours in the region (excluding Iran, they will never be on my side) and Israel be recognised as a Jewish state. Any compensation for any refgugees will be done so that it is fair, the Arab world will give the Jewish refugees compensation , the Palestinians will get theres. Alternatively, the Arab world can pay money directly to the Palestinians. if there is no peace, then Iran will just use whatever cracks and faults it can to increase its own regional capability (like they did with Hezbollah or Hamas), as far as I know, even most of the Arab world is suspicious of Iran's intentions. I couldnt care what Iran does in Iraq, that is an issue for the Arabs, but when they try and get into Israel;s sphere of influence, that is worrying. I prefer the peaceful option, Israel doesn't need more enemies when Iran is challenging it in its own sphere of influence , not to mention any economic benefits or benefits in world opinion . besides , I think people are getting sick of bad news stories.Darkman2007

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] then what in your view is reasonable force? and again , you have no idea what was happening beforehand, they may have been violent beforehand.Darkman2007

Reasonable force would constitute moving people apart without beating them unnecessarily with bats or restraining them with cuffs. That behaviour was unacceptable, I hope you agree with me on that. "They may have been violent beforehand" Really? A group of middle aged women were so violent towards trained soldiers in armour that they had to beat them. Never heard something so ludicrous in my entire life.

Yes, I'm sure these women will find an Israeli lawyer, go to an Israeli Supreme Court and sue these soldiers. That will definitely be achievable for them. The fact that people can even excuse this type of behaviour shows the state of the public's mentality. People's judgement is so clouded by propaganda they can no longer see right from wrong. If these were men hitting men then I would agree with you. But beating women is just wrong, no excuses.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="mayceV"] about the old city... the statehood vote is also to make east jeruslem the capital of the palestinain state. IDK how isreal would react but if palestine became a state East jeruslem would be recognized as a part of Palestine not Isreal. Also I'm pretty sure That not all the borders would be cut off ( jordan+ egypt borders) And IDk if the blockade on the gazan shores could legally be inforced if palestine is a legitimate state. What my idea is, is that a bit off shore the palestinain government could erect wind turbines to power Gaza (64 could equate to the current power usage of the Gaza strip.) Its actuall the reason I'm studying mechanical engineering. As for the west bank, a sq kilo of land can be used to produce 100MW of electricity via Solar energy. mayceV

actually , I just checked again , and I was right, Olmert actually offered Abu Mazen 3 quarters of the old city as well , with the exception of the Jewish quarter.

he still said no for some odd reason.

Where is the Post of the Sniper killing the mother and son in Syria? OMFG A ISRAELI MAN DROVE OVER A FAMILY OF DUCKS! Israel is so evil. Seriously you political correct people just love to hate Israel? Why? Watched to many Conspiracies?Robbazking

Underdog concept, Israel is far, far more powerfull.
Lots of people grow up being taught that those who are wiser/mightier should know better.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="magicalclick"]

I am refering to Obama's comment on Israel, which Mrs Clinton has already failed to stop.

magicalclick

I never said, invading other countires to begin with. You are making wrong assumptions.

[QUOTE="Robbazking"]Where is the Post of the Sniper killing the mother and son in Syria? OMFG A ISRAELI MAN DROVE OVER A FAMILY OF DUCKS! Israel is so evil. Seriously you political correct people just love to hate Israel? Why? Watched to many Conspiracies?rastotm

Underdog concept, Israel is far, far more powerfull.
Lots of people grow up being taught that those who are wiser/mightier should know better.

ha, so if a rocket hit Tel Aviv , would you say it was ok because the Palestinians are the underdogs.

also if the underdog concept applied, Israel would not have been compared to the Nazis or asked to give land in the 1950s, before it became a regional power , and before it had the west bank or Gaza

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

[QUOTE="Robbazking"]Where is the Post of the Sniper killing the mother and son in Syria? OMFG A ISRAELI MAN DROVE OVER A FAMILY OF DUCKS! Israel is so evil. Seriously you political correct people just love to hate Israel? Why? Watched to many Conspiracies?Darkman2007

Underdog concept, Israel is far, far more powerfull.
Lots of people grow up being taught that those who are wiser/mightier should know better.

ha, so if a rocket hit Tel Aviv , would you say it was ok because the Palestinians are the underdogs.

also if the underdog concept applied, Israel would not have been compared to the Nazis or asked to give land in the 1950s, before it became a regional power , and before it had the west bank or Gaza

No, i said that alot of humans have a tendency to lean towards the underdog. I never implied that it was just

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

Underdog concept, Israel is far, far more powerfull.
Lots of people grow up being taught that those who are wiser/mightier should know better.

rastotm

ha, so if a rocket hit Tel Aviv , would you say it was ok because the Palestinians are the underdogs.

also if the underdog concept applied, Israel would not have been compared to the Nazis or asked to give land in the 1950s, before it became a regional power , and before it had the west bank or Gaza

No, i said that alot of humans have a tendency to lean towards the underdog. I never implied that it was just

and that goes to my 2nd point, why was Israel being compared to the Nazis and being told to give more land even in the 1950s, when Israel was much weaker then now, and didnt control the west bank and Gaza.

its certainly something worth thinking about

[QUOTE="rastotm"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

ha, so if a rocket hit Tel Aviv , would you say it was ok because the Palestinians are the underdogs.

also if the underdog concept applied, Israel would not have been compared to the Nazis or asked to give land in the 1950s, before it became a regional power , and before it had the west bank or Gaza

Darkman2007

No, i said that alot of humans have a tendency to lean towards the underdog. I never implied that it was just

and that goes to my 2nd point, why was Israel being compared to the Nazis and being told to give more land even in the 1950s, when Israel was much weaker then now, and didnt control the west bank and Gaza.

its certainly something worth thinking about

Well I believe thats because the Arabs rejected the UN resolution, in which the land was promised. Despite them rejecting it, the palestinians never had officially claimed the land and thus had no real decision in it.
On that account the palestinians were portrayed as victims, many people thought that the palestinians were driven from their land. Which is false granted 68% of the arabs who left never saw a israeli soldier

Anyway i'm trying not to take a stance on either side, i'm just trying to explain why there are so many people with opinions that are based on myth's.