Israeli Soldiers Beating Women

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

This statement naturally divides the subject, I am quite fed up with the same old excuse and the same card which is only naturally pulled up as "antisemitism". Are you denying that everyone else is not a class of mankind that also have claim to pity? Do you not know that Jews are not the only semites? Indeed, the word "antisemite" is only a bugbear, but as I purpose, taking a seperate view of the different ranks of society, and of the moral character of every race and group of people in this world, this hint is, for the present, sufficient; and I have only alluded to the subject.

Stop living only to amuse yourself. By the same law of humanity and nature, everyone else is as equal to be treated as the Jews to be treated.

TehFuneral

I do not think anyone denys that Jews are semites, moreover, I think that the fact it is the obvious and pure attribution to them as semites that the word "antisemite" referers, nowadays, exclusivley to them.

It does on the other hand concern me deeply, when people refer to us as terrorists. I have often thought of it as one of the most barbarous customs in the world.

There is no getting around that, people in Germany are still being partially criticised and judged by their actions and compared to hitler it happens, whether the ignorant people know it is wrong or not.

I just find it quite annoying that whenever someone criticize israel for anything, someone would send out an outcry of "antisemitism" and declare it and obvious interference of hatred and partial prejudice.

[QUOTE="yabbicoke"]Israel violating human rights? Shocking...m25105

[QUOTE="m25105"][QUOTE="yabbicoke"]Israel violating human rights? Shocking...Darkman2007

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"]

[QUOTE="TehFuneral"]

You do realize that with such attitude israel has now, you are losing much more respect than you are gaining? There are far more countries ready to recognize Palestine than your country, the only reason israel stays on how it is is due to the great influence of israeli-American-western lobby. Moreover, Isreal seems to not care by further using such advantage by acting that all of their actions are justified, and that they have a full permit to do whatever they want. There are far too many people who recognize your acts as shameful and degrading, not just on a regional scale, but on an international one.

TehFuneral

This statement naturally divides the subject, I am quite fed up with the same old excuse and the same card which is only naturally pulled up as "antisemitism". Are you denying that everyone else is not a ****of mankind that also have claim to pity? Do you not know that Jews are not the only semites? Indeed, the word "antisemite" is only a bugbear, but as I purpose, taking a seperate view of the different ranks of society, and of the moral character of every race and group of people in this world, this hint is, for the present, sufficient; and I have only alluded to the subject.

Stop living only to amuse yourself. By the same law of humanity and nature, everyone else is as equal to be treated as the Jews to be treated.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="m25105"] Turkey is improving their relations with the Kurds.m25105

[QUOTE="m25105"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] still fighting the PKK though, despite a ceasefire earlier this year. and don't tell me there isnt human rights abuses and plenty of collateral damage , if people are so concerned with human rights organisations they have also said their share about Turkey.charlesdarwin55

[QUOTE="m25105"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] still fighting the PKK though, despite a ceasefire earlier this year. and don't tell me there isnt human rights abuses and plenty of collateral damage , if people are so concerned with human rights organisations they have also said their share about Turkey.Darkman2007

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="m25105"] Actually Turkey's goverment since AKP got in power is working a lot to improve relations with the Kurds even setting up a Kurdish Television Channel. And is this the way you defend Israel's treatment of the Palestinians now, by pointing at others?m25105

[QUOTE="m25105"][QUOTE="Darkman2007"] your point? and Israel has Arab parliament members , Arab Newspapers, and TV shows specifically in Arabic, Arabic is Israel's 2nd national language. Muslims also enjoy their own religious authorities. yet we still get called racists and bigots. and no , Im not , but what Im saying is, some states should clean their own glass windows before complaining to Israel. and who said Im defending anything, if I feel something is wrong about Israel I will say it.charlesdarwin55

Gladly, here is something about chickens.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="m25105"] Actually Turkey's goverment since AKP got in power is working a lot to improve relations with the Kurds even setting up a Kurdish Television Channel. And is this the way you defend Israel's treatment of the Palestinians now, by pointing at others?m25105

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"][QUOTE="m25105"] Maybe if you stopped bulldozing homes, destroying concrete factories, killing hundreds of thousands of chickens and demolishing a flour mill and killing thousands of civilians people would stop being so anti Israel. Until then you won't find yourself with many allies other than the U.S., Australia, Micronesia, Marshal Islands and Palau.m25105

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"][QUOTE="m25105"] Maybe if you stopped bulldozing homes, destroying concrete factories, killing hundreds of thousands of chickens and demolishing a flour mill and killing thousands of civilians people would stop being so anti Israel. Until then you won't find yourself with many allies other than the U.S., Australia, Micronesia, Marshal Islands and Palau.m25105

Gladly, here is something about chickens.

[QUOTE="m25105"]

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"] You can back up all these statements?charlesdarwin55

Gladly, here is something about chickens.

A U.N. report.

Here

The PKK stating they're willing to disarm.

A U.N. report.

m25105

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"]

[QUOTE="m25105"]

Gladly, here is something about chickens.

m25105

Here

The PKK stating they're willing to disarm.

m25105

[QUOTE="m25105"]

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"] Ok you have to give me text but this is the goldstone report even goldstone himself said his report sucked.

charlesdarwin55

[QUOTE="m25105"]

Here

The PKK stating they're willing to disarm.

Darkman2007

[QUOTE="m25105"]

A U.N. report.

Darkman2007

Here

The PKK stating they're willing to disarm.

m25105

Ad hominem attacks, great. Someone link a video by Alan Dershowitz too to complete it.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="m25105"]

A U.N. report.

charlesdarwin55

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="m25105"]

Here

The PKK stating they're willing to disarm.

m25105

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="m25105"] Aye, next thing someone will tell me that birds can fly. I mean that's so out of there.m25105

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] strange , the link doesnt work for me frankly I hardly trust anything out of the UN , they are not exactly impartial on this , and the UN human rights council is a complete joke to say the least.m25105

[QUOTE="m25105"]

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"] Ok you have to give me text but this is the goldstone report even goldstone himself said his report sucked.

charlesdarwin55

Maybe i'm missing something but i didn't see what was such a big deal in that video, Without knowing exactly what was going on and why its hard to say whether the Israeli heavy hand approach to the situation was call for. I've seen enough clashes between riot police and so called peaceful protesters in western nations to know that when two sides clash these sort of exchanges occur and people get hurt.

And seriously, I can't stand people who scream excessively. The only thing more painful that getting hit in the face with a baton is having to listen to someone screaming uncontrollably. Its just not called for.

[QUOTE="omho88"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] How did you come to that conclusion?LJS9502_basic

There were no signs opposing Israel, apparntly the protesters are young people who looked pretty normal and did nothing offensive wutsoever in the vid while they were beaten ..... and there were like 20-50 max of them, hardly a threat .... and in the end, there were alot of injuired protesters ...... no a math,

That's just what I was thinking. The video is clearly edited, so how the hell is it possible to get the whole picture of what's going on here. It's nothing but pure speculation.

Maybe they should have stayed in the kichen. They'll know their place next time.

[QUOTE="charlesdarwin55"]

[QUOTE="m25105"] The guy speaking is the owner of the flour mill and a factory for tomato canning, diapers and fruit.

NoSpeakyEnglish

mmm i'm late. Still, that video was edited. I hate the occupation more than anyone here and can tell you these "abduction for rape" is BS not because I believe the IDF is above that (personally I think they are abusive monsters) but because if they were gather women to rape it'd be all over the news (atleast here in Jordan) and be follwed by protests and such. What i did see though was the IDF's norm of being overly agressive that's about it. this kind of stuff is the norm in Palestine its to the point where there are jokes made such as "He died? eh, maybe i can get a job now" and this crowd control isn't actually harmful to the parents because they usually move on (and most of the time the civilians are returned). What I'm worried about are the childrens mental conditions. there you have thier families pulled awaywithfathersand brother beaten. growing up in a place like that really messes with your mind. Children grow up wih trauma all over palestine. They have no childhood they grow up learning what kind of weapons are dropped on them and witnessing thier family taken away.
For this video as i said its normal. Nothing will change until negotiations and then nationhood happen. and once that happens then Palestians canput every single war crime on trial. White phosphrus on hospitals, dropping bombsdirectly on civilians and UN schools, tanks and helicopters firing on ambulances, you name it- its happened.

That's the problem I see. with all of these war crimes Isreal will have to pay (as well as the fact that every palestian i know has land deed of thousands of square meters worth of land) It'll be expensive as hell for Isreal to pay for all that ( my grandfather alone has deeds to 150,000-200,000 m2 worth of land near Tel Aviv-Yafo. (I have a friend with a house occupied by isreali settlers all the possesions inside sold)). Then there's East jeruslem isreal won't give it up even if it doesn't belong to them. right of return is a huge problem with nearly 3 million refugees that want to return to thier homes(isreal sees the right of return as suicide for isreal). lastly there are the settlements. they're Illeagal however a lot are too big to suddenly take down.

[QUOTE="BiancaDK"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]so what exactly is the "other side"? lets hear it?Darkman2007

I can put a small spin on it if you'd like, for added perspective.

Can you guess how many jews were saved during world war 2?

thats called survivors, do you even know what was Europe's Jewish population before the war?

around 9 million (this includes the Soviet Union) , meaning at least 2/3 were killed, dont tell me 3 million were saved, because thats lying.

most of them either managed to leave before the war (which wasnt all that much since countries placed pretty tough limits on Jewish immigration following the Evian conference in 1938 ) , or simply survived the war. its as simple as that.

the vast majority of people were either too scared/uncaring to do anything , or mildly agreed with the killing.

sure you have good people, but sadly they were a minority.

actually most people didin't even know what was going on. just like in the US when the first A-bomb was dropped on Japan.

mmm i'm late. Still, that video was edited. I hate the occupation more than anyone here and can tell you these "abduction for rape" is BS not because I believe the IDF is above that (personally I think they are abusive monsters) but because if they were gather women to rape it'd be all over the news (atleast here in Jordan) and be follwed by protests and such. What i did see though was the IDF's norm of being overly agressive that's about it. this kind of stuff is the norm in Palestine its to the point where there are jokes made such as "He died? eh, maybe i can get a job now" and this crowd control isn't actually harmful to the parents because they usually move on (and most of the time the civilians are returned). What I'm worried about are the childrens mental conditions. there you have thier families pulled awaywithfathersand brother beaten. growing up in a place like that really messes with your mind. Children grow up wih trauma all over palestine. They have no childhood they grow up learning what kind of weapons are dropped on them and witnessing thier family taken away.
For this video as i said its normal. Nothing will change until negotiations and then nationhood happen. and once that happens then Palestians canput every single war crime on trial. White phosphrus on hospitals, dropping bombsdirectly on civilians and UN schools, tanks and helicopters firing on ambulances, you name it- its happened.

That's the problem I see. with all of these war crimes Isreal will have to pay (as well as the fact that every palestian i know has land deed of thousands of square meters worth of land) It'll be expensive as hell for Isreal to pay for all that ( my grandfather alone has deeds to 150,000-200,000 m2 worth of land near Tel Aviv-Yafo. (I have a friend with a house occupied by isreali settlers all the possesions inside sold)). Then there's East jeruslem isreal won't give it up even if it doesn't belong to them. right of return is a huge problem with nearly 3 million refugees that want to return to thier homes(isreal sees the right of return as suicide for isreal). lastly there are the settlements. they're Illeagal however a lot are too big to suddenly take down.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="BiancaDK"]

I can put a small spin on it if you'd like, for added perspective.

Can you guess how many jews were saved during world war 2?

mayceV

thats called survivors, do you even know what was Europe's Jewish population before the war?

around 9 million (this includes the Soviet Union) , meaning at least 2/3 were killed, dont tell me 3 million were saved, because thats lying.

most of them either managed to leave before the war (which wasnt all that much since countries placed pretty tough limits on Jewish immigration following the Evian conference in 1938 ) , or simply survived the war. its as simple as that.

the vast majority of people were either too scared/uncaring to do anything , or mildly agreed with the killing.

sure you have good people, but sadly they were a minority.

actually most people didin't even know what was going on. just like in the US when the first A-bomb was dropped on Japan.

what do you mean? who didn't know?

most civilians didn't know what was happening to the jews. come on germans are the most to themself people ever, they care nothing of where you're from thatt's how there culture is. i doubt they suddenly had the urge to kill jews. It was the nazi party that did so. the Nazi's had an iron grip and to the Germans they had no idea what was going on half the time (the beggining half atleast).

most civilians didn't know what was happening to the jews. come on germans are the most to themself people ever, they care nothing of where you're from thatt's how there culture is. i doubt they suddenly had the urge to kill jews. It was the nazi party that did so. the Nazi's had an iron grip and to the Germans they had no idea what was going on half the time (the beggining half atleast).

mayceV

oh they knew, but alot of people were too scared to do anything.

they might not have known exactly what was happening ,but they were aware of people getting killed, and it wasn't just Germany, if it was just Germany , it would have been in the hundreds of thousands , not millions.

regarding that previous post, you don't need to worry about any rape due to simple social attiudes, In Israel is frowned upon for a Jew and an Arab to have any sort of sexual encounter, forced or otherwise, and most soldiers are smarter then that.

and you can't blame Israel for everything under the sun , the Palestinians have their share of blood on their hands, should I take them or their leaders to the international crimes court? I don't think there is a need to if Im trying to get a peace agreement with them.

and besides, if international law and the UN were that important in the region , Israel wouldnt have been attacked in 48 (the decision was a UN one) , or the UN force would not have been told to leave in 67, the end thing is that everybody follows the UN when it suits them , and disregards them wheter they like it or not.

and if you expect Israel to pay for land, how about the Arab world pay for land stolen from the Jews when they had to leave whatever country in the Middle East they had to run away to (800,000 of them , most of which had to go and live in refugee camps in Israel for years) , after getting their property and land confiscated from them after 48 (mostly in the 1950s), and the amount of land and property confiscated was huge, just land alone was nearly 100 thousand km squared (ie, 4 times what Israel/Gaza/West bank combined is today).

my great grandfather for instance used to have a furniture factory and shop in Marakesh, Morocco . he realised things were not going to get any better for the Jews (especially after a series of pogrom), and simply closed the factory and left, he got no money for it. of course those Jews have asked for compensation from the Arab governments, and got absolutly nothing.

I don't blame Palestinians for it, but do you see what I mean? if you should get money, why shoudn't I ? in fact, judging on land alone I should get well over 4 times the money you do.