It seems the US government thinks the war on drugs is more important than...

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]In Portugal, all drugs have been decriminalized and the rates of drug use have either stayed the same or actually dropped off a bit. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.htmlTopTierHustler

Hard drugs cause many many many problems in society, from economics to funding terrorism to general population health.

TopTierHustler

And many of those problems are exacerbated, if not outright caused by drug prohibition.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]In Portugal, all drugs have been decriminalized and the rates of drug use have either stayed the same or actually dropped off a bit. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.htmlTopTierHustler

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]In Portugal, all drugs have been decriminalized and the rates of drug use have either stayed the same or actually dropped off a bit. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.htmlTopTierHustler

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

Hard drugs cause many many many problems in society, from economics to funding terrorism to general population health.

Rhazakna

And many of those problems are exacerbated, if not outright caused by drug prohibition.

Decriminalization would fix problems, legalizing would cause more.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

Hard drugs cause many many many problems in society, from economics to funding terrorism to general population health.

TopTierHustler

And many of those problems are exacerbated, if not outright caused by drug prohibition.

Decriminalization would fix problems, legalizing would cause more.

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]In Portugal, all drugs have been decriminalized and the rates of drug use have either stayed the same or actually dropped off a bit. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.htmll4dak47

I'm aware that you're not too bright and can't tell the difference, but here, I'll help you.

No country has ever tried full legalization in the modern world, and you are oblivious to that, and going by how people obviously have no self control within this society, use would obviously go up.

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

And many of those problems are exacerbated, if not outright caused by drug prohibition.

l4dak47

Decriminalization would fix problems, legalizing would cause more.

Can you imagine a world where it's legal to advertise heroin and coke on television? I really don't want to.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Decriminalization is not the same thing as legalization. Not by a long shot, and the fact that many people on here can't tell the difference is flat out scary.

TopTierHustler

I'm aware that you're not too bright and can't tell the difference, but here, I'll help you.

No country has ever tried full legalization in the modern world, and you are oblivious to that, and going by how people obviously have no self control within this society, use would obviously go up.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

Hard drugs cause many many many problems in society, from economics to funding terrorism to general population health.

TopTierHustler

And many of those problems are exacerbated, if not outright caused by drug prohibition.

Decriminalization would fix problems, legalizing would cause more.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]no, alot of the problems caused by the war on drugs have been in how users have been treated; putting them in jail and turning them into hardened criminals for minor crimes, rather than putting them in rehab which can fix them.

Decriminalization would fix problems, legalizing would cause more.

TopTierHustler

Can you imagine a world where it's legal to advertise heroin and coke on television? I really don't want to.

Oh booo hoo, meth should never be legalized...Our government's war on drugs is justified... Other than maybe the prosecution for marijuana... Cigarettes and Alcohol should be banned before Marijuana. TheCommoner

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] I already know your position. You want a nanny state and I oppose that. l4dak47

I'm aware that you're not too bright and can't tell the difference, but here, I'll help you.

No country has ever tried full legalization in the modern world, and you are oblivious to that, and going by how people obviously have no self control within this society, use would obviously go up.

And actually, the war on drugs has prevented people from using drugs, after 9/11, the gov't cracking down on airport security has made it almost impossible to sneak Ectasy into this country, and as a result, E use is way down.

Like I've said Legalization =/= decriminalization. I actually fully support testing decriminalization in this country, science says it works, and case studies do too. It's worth a shot if nothing else. You do need to do some reading to understand the difference.

[QUOTE="TheCommoner"]Oh booo hoo, meth should never be legalized...Our government's war on drugs is justified... Other than maybe the prosecution for marijuana... Cigarettes and Alcohol should be banned before Marijuana. l4dak47

TopTier is all kinds of cute.

Oh booo hoo, meth should never be legalized...Our government's war on drugs is justified... Other than maybe the prosecution for marijuana... Cigarettes and Alcohol should be banned before Marijuana. TheCommoner

[QUOTE="TheCommoner"]Oh booo hoo, meth should never be legalized...Our government's war on drugs is justified... Other than maybe the prosecution for marijuana... Cigarettes and Alcohol should be banned before Marijuana. l4dak47

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]I want to live in a functioning society, increasing hard drug use would only create more use and cause more problems.

I'm aware that you're not too bright and can't tell the difference, but here, I'll help you.

No country has ever tried full legalization in the modern world, and you are oblivious to that, and going by how people obviously have no self control within this society, use would obviously go up.

TopTierHustler

And actually, the war on drugs has prevented people from using drugs, after 9/11, the gov't cracking down on airport security has made it almost impossible to sneak Ectasy into this country, and as a result, E use is way down.

Like I've said Legalization =/= decriminalization. I actually fully support testing decriminalization in this country, science says it works, and case studies do too. It's worth a shot if nothing else. You do need to do some reading to understand the difference.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="TheCommoner"]Oh booo hoo, meth should never be legalized...Our government's war on drugs is justified... Other than maybe the prosecution for marijuana... Cigarettes and Alcohol should be banned before Marijuana. TheCommoner

Have no problem with there being a war on drugs for toxic substances likes heroin, cocaine, and meth. In terms of the article, it's pretty funny to me how the US spends all this money on "defense" yet stuff like human trafficking is still out there.

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

And many of those problems are exacerbated, if not outright caused by drug prohibition.

Rhazakna

Decriminalization would fix problems, legalizing would cause more.

No, they're going to move into other areas of criminality like sex slavery or theft. Or maybe they'll go legit, after all, they've already got the market cornered, and their formally illegal product is now illegal. Those damn cops aren't cutting into their profits anymore. What should they use that saved money on? How about pushing those same extremelly addictive drugs on people.

and really? wouldn't go up at all? We've already established that as a culture this country has huge issues with self control, why do you think people wouldn't try it? You're addicted with one use, so that's no good.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]I want to live in a functioning society, increasing hard drug use would only create more use and cause more problems.

I'm aware that you're not too bright and can't tell the difference, but here, I'll help you.

No country has ever tried full legalization in the modern world, and you are oblivious to that, and going by how people obviously have no self control within this society, use would obviously go up.

TopTierHustler

And actually, the war on drugs has prevented people from using drugs, after 9/11, the gov't cracking down on airport security has made it almost impossible to sneak Ectasy into this country, and as a result, E use is way down.

Like I've said Legalization =/= decriminalization. I actually fully support testing decriminalization in this country, science says it works, and case studies do too. It's worth a shot if nothing else. You do need to do some reading to understand the difference.

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] But prohibition does not prevent people from using drugs and it only funds the criminal organizations. l4dak47

And actually, the war on drugs has prevented people from using drugs, after 9/11, the gov't cracking down on airport security has made it almost impossible to sneak Ectasy into this country, and as a result, E use is way down.

Like I've said Legalization =/= decriminalization. I actually fully support testing decriminalization in this country, science says it works, and case studies do too. It's worth a shot if nothing else. You do need to do some reading to understand the difference.

No it's not harder to get alcohol that pot.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]and legalization allows those criminal organizations to come out of the shadows and go legit. How is that better? If anything, that's going to allow them to grow faster and push drugs in ways they weren't previously able to, like through advertising.

And actually, the war on drugs has prevented people from using drugs, after 9/11, the gov't cracking down on airport security has made it almost impossible to sneak Ectasy into this country, and as a result, E use is way down.

Like I've said Legalization =/= decriminalization. I actually fully support testing decriminalization in this country, science says it works, and case studies do too. It's worth a shot if nothing else. You do need to do some reading to understand the difference.

TopTierHustler

No it's not harder to get alcohol that pot.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]no, alot of the problems caused by the war on drugs have been in how users have been treated; putting them in jail and turning them into hardened criminals for minor crimes, rather than putting them in rehab which can fix them.

Decriminalization would fix problems, legalizing would cause more.

TopTierHustler

No, they're going to move into other areas of criminality like sex slavery or theft. Or maybe they'll go legit, after all, they've already got the market cornered, and their formally illegal product is now illegal. Those damn cops aren't cutting into their profits anymore. What should they use that saved money on? How about pushing those same extremelly addictive drugs on people.

and really? wouldn't go up at all? We've already established that as a culture this country has huge issues with self control, why do you think people wouldn't try it? You're addicted with one use, so that's no good.

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] But prohibition does not prevent people from using drugs and it only funds the criminal organizations. Rhazakna

And actually, the war on drugs has prevented people from using drugs, after 9/11, the gov't cracking down on airport security has made it almost impossible to sneak Ectasy into this country, and as a result, E use is way down.

Like I've said Legalization =/= decriminalization. I actually fully support testing decriminalization in this country, science says it works, and case studies do too. It's worth a shot if nothing else. You do need to do some reading to understand the difference.

Gez, imagine people handling out samples of coke. People would use it once and would be addicted for the rest of their lives, and with advertising becoming creepier in how companies are doing it now adays, I have no doubts shady things would go on.

Actually any selling of these hard drugs would still cause problems, violence might go done, but imagine the spike in heart attacks if cocain was legalized. It would balance out at best.

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"] Rehab is a complete waste of money if you don't want to get better. It can only work if you want it to. Legalization would not cause more problems at all. If you legalized drugs, the cartels would be out out of business, and there's no evidence to suggest that use would go up by any significant percent. As long as you keep drugs illegal, you are in effect supporting the continuation of some of the most violent criminal organizations in the worldRhazakna

No, they're going to move into other areas of criminality like sex slavery or theft. Or maybe they'll go legit, after all, they've already got the market cornered, and their formally illegal product is now illegal. Those damn cops aren't cutting into their profits anymore. What should they use that saved money on? How about pushing those same extremelly addictive drugs on people.

and really? wouldn't go up at all? We've already established that as a culture this country has huge issues with self control, why do you think people wouldn't try it? You're addicted with one use, so that's no good.

Actually any selling of these hard drugs would still cause problems, violence might go done, but imagine the spike in heart attacks if cocain was legalized. It would balance out at best.

TopTierHustler

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] Regulations. It's why it's harder to get alcohol than it is to get weed. Let me ask you this, then. Are there any drugs you would be willing to legalize?l4dak47

No it's not harder to get alcohol that pot.

Or just go to a liquor store, I always see those creepy guys hanging outside of them buying alcohol for kids for money.

With marijuana you have to find a buyer.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]and legalization allows those criminal organizations to come out of the shadows and go legit. How is that better? If anything, that's going to allow them to grow faster and push drugs in ways they weren't previously able to, like through advertising.

And actually, the war on drugs has prevented people from using drugs, after 9/11, the gov't cracking down on airport security has made it almost impossible to sneak Ectasy into this country, and as a result, E use is way down.

Like I've said Legalization =/= decriminalization. I actually fully support testing decriminalization in this country, science says it works, and case studies do too. It's worth a shot if nothing else. You do need to do some reading to understand the difference.

TopTierHustler

Gez, imagine people handling out samples of coke. People would use it once and would be addicted for the rest of their lives, and with advertising becoming creepier in how companies are doing it now adays, I have no doubts shady things would go on.

Actually any selling of these hard drugs would still cause problems, violence might go done, but imagine the spike in heart attacks if cocain was legalized. It would balance out at best.

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

Actually any selling of these hard drugs would still cause problems, violence might go done, but imagine the spike in heart attacks if cocain was legalized. It would balance out at best.

ghoklebutter

and what would public awareness do? Everybody with a brain knows that hard drugs are extremely bad for you.

I can only imagine "Injecting a chemical into my bloodstream that causes a spike in blood pressure and heart rate is bad for me? I had no idea. Thank god for the gamespot white knights otherwise I'd have no idea"

Do you get the joke?

[spoiler] I was talking about coke [/spoiler]

[spoiler] and you knew what I was talking about before you read the spoiler, just like everybody else, and there lies my point, public awareness wouldn't do anything [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]marijuana with regulation, probably a few other soft ones, but none come to mind.

No it's not harder to get alcohol that pot.

TopTierHustler

Or just go to a liquor store, I always see those creepy guys hanging outside of them buying alcohol for kids for money.

With marijuana you have to find a buyer.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]and legalization allows those criminal organizations to come out of the shadows and go legit. How is that better? If anything, that's going to allow them to grow faster and push drugs in ways they weren't previously able to, like through advertising.

And actually, the war on drugs has prevented people from using drugs, after 9/11, the gov't cracking down on airport security has made it almost impossible to sneak Ectasy into this country, and as a result, E use is way down.

Like I've said Legalization =/= decriminalization. I actually fully support testing decriminalization in this country, science says it works, and case studies do too. It's worth a shot if nothing else. You do need to do some reading to understand the difference.

TopTierHustler

Gez, imagine people handling out samples of coke. People would use it once and would be addicted for the rest of their lives, and with advertising becoming creepier in how companies are doing it now adays, I have no doubts shady things would go on.

Actually any selling of these hard drugs would still cause problems, violence might go done, but imagine the spike in heart attacks if cocain was legalized. It would balance out at best.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

Actually any selling of these hard drugs would still cause problems, violence might go done, but imagine the spike in heart attacks if cocain was legalized. It would balance out at best.

TopTierHustler

and what would public awareness do? Everybody with a brain knows that hard drugs are extremely bad for you.

I can only imagine "Injecting a chemical into my bloodstream that causes a spike in blood pressure and heart rate is bad for me? I had no idea. Thank god for the gamespot white knights otherwise I'd have no idea"

Do you get the joke?

[spoiler] I was talking about coke [/spoiler]

[spoiler] and you knew what I was talking about before you read the spoiler, just like everybody else, and there lies my point, public awareness wouldn't do anything [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"] There's no evidence to suggest that drug cartels would "go legit". They would be outcompeted immediately and ran out of business. Bootleggers didn't continue to sell alcohol after prohibition was ended. Even if you're right, if they went legit and entered the now legal drug market, the violence associated with the drug trade would still disappear. There's no reason to think the trade and sale of drugs is inherently violent, it's not. It's because drugs are sold exclusively on the black market that there's violence. Legalize it and that stops, even if the cartels somehow manage to stay in business (which there's no reason to think they will). You have no argument here, I hope you realize.l4dak47

Gez, imagine people handling out samples of coke. People would use it once and would be addicted for the rest of their lives, and with advertising becoming creepier in how companies are doing it now adays, I have no doubts shady things would go on.

Actually any selling of these hard drugs would still cause problems, violence might go done, but imagine the spike in heart attacks if cocain was legalized. It would balance out at best.

Hard drugs are in a completely differenct league in both danger and additive properties, it's no correct to even compare those. There's no reason to think that use wouldn't go up. Hard drugs are far more addictive than cigarettes, I'd think if anything, rates would be even higher, and 25% of americans already smoke. Can you imagine if 25% of Americans started having heart and liver problems by their late 20s that we wouldn't expect 'till a persons mid 70's?

We already have precedent for how integrated into society an extremely addictive drug can become and all the problems it can cause, so why assume those problems wouldn't occur for an even more addictive drug that gives better effects.

What we don't have precedent for is full legalization, like I've said, there's never been a country in the developed world to try such a thing. Why would you have such a dangerous experiment in the u.s.?

Also, TopTierHustler, you keep bringing up the point about the ubiquitous lack of self-control in the US. First of all, that's most likely an overstatement; there are a lot of people who lack self-control, but there are also quite a few who do have it. Second, the lack of self-control is most likely a sociocultural problem - at least on a significant level - so my point still stands. The consequences of legalization that you predict are in no way inevitable.ghoklebutter

Like I've said we have precedent for most people not having self control. Turning over an addicting chemical to those people would have obvious consequences.

Look at smoking. Even knowing the consequences, many people still choose to do it.

Also, TopTierHustler, you keep bringing up the point about the ubiquitous lack of self-control in the US. First of all, that's most likely an overstatement; there are a lot of people who lack self-control, but there are also quite a few who do have it. Second, the lack of self-control is most likely a sociocultural problem - at least on a significant level - so my point still stands. The consequences of legalization that you predict are in no way inevitable.ghoklebutter

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] So I suppose raising public awareness is just useless, right? That never works.ghoklebutter

and what would public awareness do? Everybody with a brain knows that hard drugs are extremely bad for you.

I can only imagine "Injecting a chemical into my bloodstream that causes a spike in blood pressure and heart rate is bad for me? I had no idea. Thank god for the gamespot white knights otherwise I'd have no idea"

Do you get the joke?

[spoiler] I was talking about coke [/spoiler]

[spoiler] and you knew what I was talking about before you read the spoiler, just like everybody else, and there lies my point, public awareness wouldn't do anything [/spoiler]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Also, TopTierHustler, you keep bringing up the point about the ubiquitous lack of self-control in the US. First of all, that's most likely an overstatement; there are a lot of people who lack self-control, but there are also quite a few who do have it. Second, the lack of self-control is most likely a sociocultural problem - at least on a significant level - so my point still stands. The consequences of legalization that you predict are in no way inevitable.Rhazakna

A couple more.

-increased medical costs for everybody.

-stress caused on people's families of addicts.

-increased mortality rate.

-drop in progress for workers.

-children would suffer as money goes to drugs that should go to them.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]Obviously it doesn't when it comes to issues of self control.

and what would public awareness do? Everybody with a brain knows that hard drugs are extremely bad for you.

I can only imagine "Injecting a chemical into my bloodstream that causes a spike in blood pressure and heart rate is bad for me? I had no idea. Thank god for the gamespot white knights otherwise I'd have no idea"

Do you get the joke?

[spoiler] I was talking about coke [/spoiler]

[spoiler] and you knew what I was talking about before you read the spoiler, just like everybody else, and there lies my point, public awareness wouldn't do anything [/spoiler]

TopTierHustler

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"] There's no evidence to suggest that drug cartels would "go legit". They would be outcompeted immediately and ran out of business. Bootleggers didn't continue to sell alcohol after prohibition was ended. Even if you're right, if they went legit and entered the now legal drug market, the violence associated with the drug trade would still disappear. There's no reason to think the trade and sale of drugs is inherently violent, it's not. It's because drugs are sold exclusively on the black market that there's violence. Legalize it and that stops, even if the cartels somehow manage to stay in business (which there's no reason to think they will). You have no argument here, I hope you realize.Rhazakna

Gez, imagine people handling out samples of coke. People would use it once and would be addicted for the rest of their lives, and with advertising becoming creepier in how companies are doing it now adays, I have no doubts shady things would go on.

Actually any selling of these hard drugs would still cause problems, violence might go done, but imagine the spike in heart attacks if cocain was legalized. It would balance out at best.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Also, TopTierHustler, you keep bringing up the point about the ubiquitous lack of self-control in the US. First of all, that's most likely an overstatement; there are a lot of people who lack self-control, but there are also quite a few who do have it. Second, the lack of self-control is most likely a sociocultural problem - at least on a significant level - so my point still stands. The consequences of legalization that you predict are in no way inevitable.Rhazakna