It seems the US government thinks the war on drugs is more important than...

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Rhazakna

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#101 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Also, TopTierHustler, you keep bringing up the point about the ubiquitous lack of self-control in the US. First of all, that's most likely an overstatement; there are a lot of people who lack self-control, but there are also quite a few who do have it. Second, the lack of self-control is most likely a sociocultural problem - at least on a significant level - so my point still stands. The consequences of legalization that you predict are in no way inevitable.TopTierHustler

Even if he was exactly right, that doesn't matter. People should be free to poison their bodies if they wish. It may lead to a world where more people do hard drugs, but there are no drug cartels, and addicts don't have to be worried about dying because of poisons in the drug. Also, the cost would fall tremendously, so addicts wouldn't have to be homeless because of their habit. There's literally no good argument against legalization, and that's not something I usually say about issues.

the drugs themselves are poison. That's a pretty good argument.

A couple more.

-increased medical costs for everybody.

-stress caused on people's families of addicts.

-increased mortality rate.

-drop in progress for workers.

-children would suffer as money goes to drugs that should go to them.

And you shouldn't be able to re strict people from voluntarily putting it in their bodies. None of those problems even remotely come close to the benefit of destroying the modern black market drug trade. All these arguments, every last one could be made arguing against repealing prohibition in the 1920s. In fact, these arguments were made. Replace "drugs' with "alcohol, and there's be no way to tell the difference between your position and the Temperance Movement. They weren't good arguments then, and they aren't now.
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TopTierHustler

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#102 TopTierHustler
Member since 2012 • 3894 Posts

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Citing a statistic about obesity rates does nothing to counter my point; you're completely oversimplifying the problem of obesity. Moreover, you seem to have a very narrow conception of raising public awareness; your making that argument is proof of that.ghoklebutter

no I haven't, like with cigarettes controlling weight it a matter of self control which enough people obviously lack for hard drugs to be dangerous.

Again, you're oversimplifying the issue here. Quitting smoking is chiefly based on self-control; eradicating obesity, however, depends on more things than simple self-control. It's pretty much comparing apples and oranges.

I really don't think it does, we've seen that people lack self control when it comes to things that aren't physically addictive and are mildly physically addictive.

no obesity is pretty much self control. If more goes out than comes in, you lose weight. The key is eating less. That's the self control part fatties don't get.

The consequences of something extremely addictive just seem obvious to me.

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kingkong0124

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#103 kingkong0124
Member since 2012 • 8329 Posts

There's no such thing as a drug that you get addicted to after one use. That's horsesh*t they feed you in elementary school.Rhazakna

are you sure about this? not even cocaine/meth/etc.?

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ghoklebutter

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#104 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Also, TopTierHustler, you keep bringing up the point about the ubiquitous lack of self-control in the US. First of all, that's most likely an overstatement; there are a lot of people who lack self-control, but there are also quite a few who do have it. Second, the lack of self-control is most likely a sociocultural problem - at least on a significant level - so my point still stands. The consequences of legalization that you predict are in no way inevitable.TopTierHustler

but use would still likely widen from it's thin demographic already.

Like I've said we have precedent for most people not having self control. Turning over an addicting chemical to those people would have obvious consequences.

Look at smoking. Even knowing the consequences, many people still choose to do it.

Your argument is only sound if you assume that nothing will be done about drug abuse and self-control. And don't even try to compare smoking tobacco to taking more dangerous drugs like meth. Smoking is obviously unhealthy, but it's not on the same level as the latter kind of drugs.
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Rhazakna

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#105 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts
[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Also, TopTierHustler, you keep bringing up the point about the ubiquitous lack of self-control in the US. First of all, that's most likely an overstatement; there are a lot of people who lack self-control, but there are also quite a few who do have it. Second, the lack of self-control is most likely a sociocultural problem - at least on a significant level - so my point still stands. The consequences of legalization that you predict are in no way inevitable.Nick3306
There's literally no good argument against legalization, and that's not something I usually say about issues.

The amount of balls it takes to make this statement when you yourself know that it wrong is ridiculous. The fact that kids could get their hands on them is a good argument in itself.

"Think of the children!" isn't a good argument when conservatives use it for their moral crusades, and it's not a good one now. Do you people realize that the arguments you're making are the EXACT SAME arguments made by proponents of prohibition? Learn from history, for god's sake.
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Rhazakna

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#106 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

There's no such thing as a drug that you get addicted to after one use. That's horsesh*t they feed you in elementary school.kingkong0124

are you sure about this? not even cocaine/meth/etc.?

Yeah. In fact, the WHO concluded that cocaine is not even particularly dangerous after a massive study, and the US government said that if the full study was ever released, the WHO would be defunded (essentially killing them). Drugs aren't illegal because they're dangerous, people who think that are ignorant.
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l4dak47

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#107 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

There's no such thing as a drug that you get addicted to after one use. That's horsesh*t they feed you in elementary school.kingkong0124

are you sure about this? not even cocaine/meth/etc.?

Not even. They are highly addictive, yes, but you will not get addicted in just one hit unless you have an addictive personality. Think of it this way; if you've ever taken Vicodin or Oxycontin, then you've been exposed to the same level of addiction risk as cocaine or meth, but did you get addicted?
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Nick3306

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#108 Nick3306
Member since 2007 • 3429 Posts
[QUOTE="Nick3306"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"] There's literally no good argument against legalization, and that's not something I usually say about issues.Rhazakna
The amount of balls it takes to make this statement when you yourself know that it wrong is ridiculous. The fact that kids could get their hands on them is a good argument in itself.

"Think of the children!" isn't a good argument when conservatives use it for their moral crusades, and it's not a good one now. Do you people realize that the arguments you're making are the EXACT SAME arguments made by proponents of prohibition? Learn from history, for god's sake.

That was just an example i decided to use to show you how ridiculous that statement was. I'm not saying I favor one side or the other, but no good argument? What world are you living in?
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l4dak47

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#109 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts
[QUOTE="Nick3306"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"] There's literally no good argument against legalization, and that's not something I usually say about issues.Rhazakna
The amount of balls it takes to make this statement when you yourself know that it wrong is ridiculous. The fact that kids could get their hands on them is a good argument in itself.

"Think of the children!" isn't a good argument when conservatives use it for their moral crusades, and it's not a good one now. Do you people realize that the arguments you're making are the EXACT SAME arguments made by proponents of prohibition? Learn from history, for god's sake.

It's a bit sad that we can see the same old bs happening again.
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l4dak47

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#110 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts
[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="Nick3306"]The amount of balls it takes to make this statement when you yourself know that it wrong is ridiculous. The fact that kids could get their hands on them is a good argument in itself. Nick3306
"Think of the children!" isn't a good argument when conservatives use it for their moral crusades, and it's not a good one now. Do you people realize that the arguments you're making are the EXACT SAME arguments made by proponents of prohibition? Learn from history, for god's sake.

That was just an example i decided to use to show you how ridiculous that statement was. I'm not saying I favor one side or the other, but no good argument? What world are you living in?

There's no argument against legalization of drugs that cannot be easily debunked. He is right in that.
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TopTierHustler

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#111 TopTierHustler
Member since 2012 • 3894 Posts

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"] Even if he was exactly right, that doesn't matter. People should be free to poison their bodies if they wish. It may lead to a world where more people do hard drugs, but there are no drug cartels, and addicts don't have to be worried about dying because of poisons in the drug. Also, the cost would fall tremendously, so addicts wouldn't have to be homeless because of their habit. There's literally no good argument against legalization, and that's not something I usually say about issues.Rhazakna

the drugs themselves are poison. That's a pretty good argument.

A couple more.

-increased medical costs for everybody.

-stress caused on people's families of addicts.

-increased mortality rate.

-drop in progress for workers.

-children would suffer as money goes to drugs that should go to them.

And you shouldn't be able to re strict people from voluntarily putting it in their bodies. None of those problems even remotely come close to the benefit of destroying the modern black market drug trade. All these arguments, every last one could be made arguing against repealing prohibition in the 1920s. In fact, these arguments were made. Replace "drugs' with "alcohol, and there's be no way to tell the difference between your position and the Temperance Movement. They weren't good arguments then, and they aren't now.

how would that even destroy the trade.

If legalized they still have.

-tons of money.

-tons of man power.

-well constructed corporate like business.

-tons of people being paid off, threatened of blackmailed.

With all that do you really think they would just quit? No, they're obviously going to step into other areas of crime; human trafficking, theft, weapons. It would just be snuffing out one flame and starting another one.

All while we've created another major problem within society.

Alcohol and hard drugs are not similar at all, and comparing them is dubious at best. Hard drugs are much more dangerous to ones health, and much more addictive. In cases of meth or crack, they even cause people to act out extremely violently.

If your argument is really rooted in your inability to tell the difference between the dangers alcohol and something like meth, then you really need to rethink your position.

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Nick3306

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#112 Nick3306
Member since 2007 • 3429 Posts
[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Nick3306"][QUOTE="Rhazakna"] "Think of the children!" isn't a good argument when conservatives use it for their moral crusades, and it's not a good one now. Do you people realize that the arguments you're making are the EXACT SAME arguments made by proponents of prohibition? Learn from history, for god's sake.

That was just an example i decided to use to show you how ridiculous that statement was. I'm not saying I favor one side or the other, but no good argument? What world are you living in?

There's no argument against legalization of drugs that cannot be easily debunked. He is right in that.

Ah i see what the problem is. You guys are so set on your opinions that anything anyone says can easily be "debunked" by your opinions. The thing is, we dont know what would happen if they were all legalized, so stop trying to act like you're opinions are facts because no one knows what would happen.
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TopTierHustler

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#113 TopTierHustler
Member since 2012 • 3894 Posts

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Also, TopTierHustler, you keep bringing up the point about the ubiquitous lack of self-control in the US. First of all, that's most likely an overstatement; there are a lot of people who lack self-control, but there are also quite a few who do have it. Second, the lack of self-control is most likely a sociocultural problem - at least on a significant level - so my point still stands. The consequences of legalization that you predict are in no way inevitable.ghoklebutter

but use would still likely widen from it's thin demographic already.

Like I've said we have precedent for most people not having self control. Turning over an addicting chemical to those people would have obvious consequences.

Look at smoking. Even knowing the consequences, many people still choose to do it.

Your argument is only sound if you assume that nothing will be done about drug abuse and self-control. And don't even try to compare smoking tobacco to taking more dangerous drugs like meth. Smoking is obviously unhealthy, but it's not on the same level as the latter kind of drugs.

I think you missed my point.

I was saying that a more addictive substance would easily spread more quickly when less addive things already do.

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kingkong0124

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#114 kingkong0124
Member since 2012 • 8329 Posts

Rhazakna

Wow, that's pretty surprising then, actually. Did not know this, this might change my whole stance on this.

Not even. They are highly addictive, yes, but you will not get addicted in just one hit unless you have an addictive personality. Think of it this way; if you've ever taken Vicodin or Oxycontin, then you've been exposed to the same level of addiction risk as cocaine or meth, but did you get addicted? l4dak47

could intent play a role? when you smoke crack, you want to get high, but when you take vicodin, it's usually to manage pain?

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ghoklebutter

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#115 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]no I haven't, like with cigarettes controlling weight it a matter of self control which enough people obviously lack for hard drugs to be dangerous.

TopTierHustler

Again, you're oversimplifying the issue here. Quitting smoking is chiefly based on self-control; eradicating obesity, however, depends on more things than simple self-control. It's pretty much comparing apples and oranges.

I really don't think it does, we've seen that people lack self control when it comes to things that aren't physically addictive and are mildly physically addictive.

no obesity is pretty much self control. If more goes out than comes in, you lose weight. The key is eating less. That's the self control part fatties don't get.

The consequences of something extremely addictive just seem obvious to me.

Weight loss is not just about eating less. I'm surprised you actually said that. There are numerous sources out there that show that obesity is caused by much more than just excessively large portion sizes. As for those consequences, you have yet to convince me that they are unavoidable.
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TopTierHustler

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#116 TopTierHustler
Member since 2012 • 3894 Posts

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

There's no such thing as a drug that you get addicted to after one use. That's horsesh*t they feed you in elementary school.Rhazakna

are you sure about this? not even cocaine/meth/etc.?

Yeah. In fact, the WHO concluded that cocaine is not even particularly dangerous after a massive study, and the US government said that if the full study was ever released, the WHO would be defunded (essentially killing them). Drugs aren't illegal because they're dangerous, people who think that are ignorant.

yeah, now I know you're full of crap.

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l4dak47

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#117 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts
[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Nick3306"]That was just an example i decided to use to show you how ridiculous that statement was. I'm not saying I favor one side or the other, but no good argument? What world are you living in?Nick3306
There's no argument against legalization of drugs that cannot be easily debunked. He is right in that.

Ah i see what the problem is. You guys are so set on your opinions that anything anyone says can easily be "debunked" by your opinions. The thing is, we dont know what would happen if they were all legalized, so stop trying to act like you're opinions are facts because no one knows what would happen.

There are several benefits to it being legalized and multiple negative effects to it being illegal.
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Nick3306

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#118 Nick3306
Member since 2007 • 3429 Posts
[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Nick3306"][QUOTE="l4dak47"] There's no argument against legalization of drugs that cannot be easily debunked. He is right in that.

Ah i see what the problem is. You guys are so set on your opinions that anything anyone says can easily be "debunked" by your opinions. The thing is, we dont know what would happen if they were all legalized, so stop trying to act like you're opinions are facts because no one knows what would happen.

There are several benefits to it being legalized and multiple negative effects to it being illegal.

I'm sure there are, but to say there is no good argument when no one knows what would happen is ignorance at its finest.
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l4dak47

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#119 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]

Wow, that's pretty surprising then, actually. Did not know this, this might change my whole stance on this.

[QUOTE="l4dak47"]

are you sure about this? not even cocaine/meth/etc.?

kingkong0124

Not even. They are highly addictive, yes, but you will not get addicted in just one hit unless you have an addictive personality. Think of it this way; if you've ever taken Vicodin or Oxycontin, then you've been exposed to the same level of addiction risk as cocaine or meth, but did you get addicted?

could intent play a role? when you smoke crack, you want to get high, but when you take vicodin, it's usually to manage pain?

It doesn't matter your intent. Your body is still experiencing the same amount of high and therefore the same amount of addiction risk is there.
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l4dak47

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#120 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts
[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Nick3306"]Ah i see what the problem is. You guys are so set on your opinions that anything anyone says can easily be "debunked" by your opinions. The thing is, we dont know what would happen if they were all legalized, so stop trying to act like you're opinions are facts because no one knows what would happen.Nick3306
There are several benefits to it being legalized and multiple negative effects to it being illegal.

I'm sure there are, but to say there is no good argument when no one knows what would happen is ignorance at its finest.

Not at all. I can't think of one that cannot be debunked quite easily. Can you?
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Nick3306

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#121 Nick3306
Member since 2007 • 3429 Posts
[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Nick3306"][QUOTE="l4dak47"] There are several benefits to it being legalized and multiple negative effects to it being illegal.

I'm sure there are, but to say there is no good argument when no one knows what would happen is ignorance at its finest.

Not at all. I can't think of one that cannot be debunked quite easily. Can you?

Easily, The increased flow of drugs could lead to a higher death rate from these drugs. The only way to possibly debunk this would be to get statistics from a future where they are already legal.
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#122 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

when you take vicodin, it's usually to manage pain

kingkong0124
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l4dak47

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#123 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="kingkong0124"]

are you sure about this? not even cocaine/meth/etc.?

TopTierHustler

Yeah. In fact, the WHO concluded that cocaine is not even particularly dangerous after a massive study, and the US government said that if the full study was ever released, the WHO would be defunded (essentially killing them). Drugs aren't illegal because they're dangerous, people who think that are ignorant.

yeah, now I know you're full of crap.

Cocaine is bad for your heart, yes, but so is caffeine and nicotine. It's the nasty sh*t that cocaine is cut with that makes it so deadly. If cocaine was regulated, there would be more of a quality control.
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ghoklebutter

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#124 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]but use would still likely widen from it's thin demographic already.

Like I've said we have precedent for most people not having self control. Turning over an addicting chemical to those people would have obvious consequences.

Look at smoking. Even knowing the consequences, many people still choose to do it.

TopTierHustler

Your argument is only sound if you assume that nothing will be done about drug abuse and self-control. And don't even try to compare smoking tobacco to taking more dangerous drugs like meth. Smoking is obviously unhealthy, but it's not on the same level as the latter kind of drugs.

I think you missed my point.

I was saying that a more addictive substance would easily spread more quickly when less addive things already do.

Point taken. But I still think that drug abuse is a sociocultural problem that lies on current attitudes towards drugs and so isn't a necessary consequence of legalization.
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l4dak47

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#125 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts
[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Nick3306"]I'm sure there are, but to say there is no good argument when no one knows what would happen is ignorance at its finest.Nick3306
Not at all. I can't think of one that cannot be debunked quite easily. Can you?

Easily, The increased flow of drugs could lead to a higher death rate from these drugs. The only way to possibly debunk this would be to get statistics from a future where they are already legal.

Not at all. Despite what many here think, prohibition does not actually stop most drugs from flowing in. So, the percentage of users you see now will most likely stay the same even if the drug is legalized. Also, contrary to what you think, regulating a drug would actually make it more safer thus leading to less deaths.
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Nick3306

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#126 Nick3306
Member since 2007 • 3429 Posts
[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Nick3306"][QUOTE="l4dak47"] Not at all. I can't think of one that cannot be debunked quite easily. Can you?

Easily, The increased flow of drugs could lead to a higher death rate from these drugs. The only way to possibly debunk this would be to get statistics from a future where they are already legal.

Not at all. Despite what many here think, prohibition does not actually stop most drugs from flowing in. So, the percentage of users you see now will most likely stay the same even if the drug is legalized. Also, contrary to what you think, regulating a drug would actually make it more safer thus leading to less deaths.

You have given NO facts to back up your claims. Theoretically my argument is more sound than yours but unfortunately we dont know for sure because it hasnt happened yet. Not only have you failed to debunk my theory, you have introduced more theories in attempt to debunk mine. That is terrible arguing that only leads people around in circles.
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ghoklebutter

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#127 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts
[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Also, TopTierHustler, you keep bringing up the point about the ubiquitous lack of self-control in the US. First of all, that's most likely an overstatement; there are a lot of people who lack self-control, but there are also quite a few who do have it. Second, the lack of self-control is most likely a sociocultural problem - at least on a significant level - so my point still stands. The consequences of legalization that you predict are in no way inevitable.Rhazakna
Even if he was exactly right, that doesn't matter. People should be free to poison their bodies if they wish. It may lead to a world where more people do hard drugs, but there are no drug cartels, and addicts don't have to be worried about dying because of poisons in the drug. Also, the cost would fall tremendously, so addicts wouldn't have to be homeless because of their habit. There's literally no good argument against legalization, and that's not something I usually say about issues.

I agree, but drug abuse is still a problem. Nevertheless, I don't think that increased drug abuse is a necessary consequence of legalization. Like I said, it has sociocultural roots.
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TopTierHustler

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#128 TopTierHustler
Member since 2012 • 3894 Posts

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Again, you're oversimplifying the issue here. Quitting smoking is chiefly based on self-control; eradicating obesity, however, depends on more things than simple self-control. It's pretty much comparing apples and oranges.ghoklebutter

I really don't think it does, we've seen that people lack self control when it comes to things that aren't physically addictive and are mildly physically addictive.

no obesity is pretty much self control. If more goes out than comes in, you lose weight. The key is eating less. That's the self control part fatties don't get.

The consequences of something extremely addictive just seem obvious to me.

Weight loss is not just about eating less. I'm surprised you actually said that. There are numerous sources out there that show that obesity is caused by much more than just excessively large portion sizes. As for those consequences, you have yet to convince me that they are unavoidable.

no, it's eating less.

It's just basica math, if more goes out then comes in, there is a net loss.

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#129 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Nick3306"]Easily, The increased flow of drugs could lead to a higher death rate from these drugs. The only way to possibly debunk this would be to get statistics from a future where they are already legal.Nick3306
Not at all. Despite what many here think, prohibition does not actually stop most drugs from flowing in. So, the percentage of users you see now will most likely stay the same even if the drug is legalized. Also, contrary to what you think, regulating a drug would actually make it more safer thus leading to less deaths.

You have given NO facts to back up your claims. Theoretically my argument is more sound than yours but unfortunately we dont know for sure because it hasnt happened yet. Not only have you failed to debunk my theory, you have introduced more theories in attempt to debunk mine. That is terrible arguing that only leads people around in circles.

lol
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TopTierHustler

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#130 TopTierHustler
Member since 2012 • 3894 Posts

[QUOTE="Nick3306"][QUOTE="l4dak47"] There's no argument against legalization of drugs that cannot be easily debunked. He is right in that. l4dak47
Ah i see what the problem is. You guys are so set on your opinions that anything anyone says can easily be "debunked" by your opinions. The thing is, we dont know what would happen if they were all legalized, so stop trying to act like you're opinions are facts because no one knows what would happen.

There are several benefits to it being legalized and multiple negative effects to it being illegal.

No country has ever done that, so you don't know that.

You're presenting opinion as fact.

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ghoklebutter

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#131 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]I really don't think it does, we've seen that people lack self control when it comes to things that aren't physically addictive and are mildly physically addictive.

no obesity is pretty much self control. If more goes out than comes in, you lose weight. The key is eating less. That's the self control part fatties don't get.

The consequences of something extremely addictive just seem obvious to me.

TopTierHustler

Weight loss is not just about eating less. I'm surprised you actually said that. There are numerous sources out there that show that obesity is caused by much more than just excessively large portion sizes. As for those consequences, you have yet to convince me that they are unavoidable.

no, it's eating less.

It's just basica math, if more goes out then comes in, there is a net loss.

Yes, the level of food intake does matter. So does the food you're eating, exercise, hormonal problems, genetic disposition to obesity, and a myriad of other factors.
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coolbeans90

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#132 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

What are your thoughts on alcohol, TopTurd?

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#133 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Nick3306"]Ah i see what the problem is. You guys are so set on your opinions that anything anyone says can easily be "debunked" by your opinions. The thing is, we dont know what would happen if they were all legalized, so stop trying to act like you're opinions are facts because no one knows what would happen.TopTierHustler

There are several benefits to it being legalized and multiple negative effects to it being illegal.

No country has ever done that, so you don't know that.

You're presenting opinion as fact.

You do realize that all drugs were legal before they were illegal, right?
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l4dak47

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#134 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts
[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Nick3306"]Easily, The increased flow of drugs could lead to a higher death rate from these drugs. The only way to possibly debunk this would be to get statistics from a future where they are already legal.Nick3306
Not at all. Despite what many here think, prohibition does not actually stop most drugs from flowing in. So, the percentage of users you see now will most likely stay the same even if the drug is legalized. Also, contrary to what you think, regulating a drug would actually make it more safer thus leading to less deaths.

You have given NO facts to back up your claims. Theoretically my argument is more sound than yours but unfortunately we dont know for sure because it hasnt happened yet. Not only have you failed to debunk my theory, you have introduced more theories in attempt to debunk mine. That is terrible arguing that only leads people around in circles.

Wut? When alcohol was illegal, the alcohol was often made with nasty sh*t and as a result of this, more people died. When prohibition was lifted, alcohol became more "clean" and people know what they were getting. This is fact and is very similar to what's currently happening with the illegal drugs. Also, this idea that legalization=more people using is not true and has no basis in reality. Would you personally go out and buy cocaine if it became legal? Most people would say no and the few that would say yes were probably already using.
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Nick3306

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#135 Nick3306
Member since 2007 • 3429 Posts
[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Nick3306"][QUOTE="l4dak47"] Not at all. Despite what many here think, prohibition does not actually stop most drugs from flowing in. So, the percentage of users you see now will most likely stay the same even if the drug is legalized. Also, contrary to what you think, regulating a drug would actually make it more safer thus leading to less deaths.

You have given NO facts to back up your claims. Theoretically my argument is more sound than yours but unfortunately we dont know for sure because it hasnt happened yet. Not only have you failed to debunk my theory, you have introduced more theories in attempt to debunk mine. That is terrible arguing that only leads people around in circles.

Wut? When alcohol was illegal, the alcohol was often made with nasty sh*t and as a result of this, more people died. When prohibition was lifted, alcohol became more "clean" and people know what they were getting. This is fact and is very similar to what's currently happening with the illegal drugs. Also, this idea that legalization=more people using is not true and has no basis in reality. Would you personally go out and buy cocaine if it became legal? Most people would say no and the few that would say yes were probably already using.

Lol you have still presented NO facts in your argument. While your first argument is most likely correct, without any statistics, it holds no weight. And you are right, I have no idea if legalization would lead to more users but logically it makes sense. To straight up say that it is not true is plain ignorance. And you do have a good point with your last 2 sentences, but I could just say that a lot of people are too scared to try drugs because either A. They dont want to get caught, or B. They are scared of the health risks. Now if they were legal people could think "well they cant be that bad if I can get them at a store" Im not saying that any of this is true but it would make sense.
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coolbeans90

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#136 coolbeans90
Member since 2009 • 21305 Posts

I'm sure, with all the fancy labels, that people don't think cigarettes are dangerous, either.

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#137 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
Now if they were legal people could think "well they cant be that bad if I can get them at a store" Im not saying that any of this is true but it would make sense.Nick3306
Yeah, because people think the same thing about cigarettes.
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#138 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
Which reminds me, I have to go to the store and get bath salts and dust-off cans. I'm going to get so ripped tonight.
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l4dak47

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#139 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts
[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="Nick3306"]You have given NO facts to back up your claims. Theoretically my argument is more sound than yours but unfortunately we dont know for sure because it hasnt happened yet. Not only have you failed to debunk my theory, you have introduced more theories in attempt to debunk mine. That is terrible arguing that only leads people around in circles.Nick3306
Wut? When alcohol was illegal, the alcohol was often made with nasty sh*t and as a result of this, more people died. When prohibition was lifted, alcohol became more "clean" and people know what they were getting. This is fact and is very similar to what's currently happening with the illegal drugs. Also, this idea that legalization=more people using is not true and has no basis in reality. Would you personally go out and buy cocaine if it became legal? Most people would say no and the few that would say yes were probably already using.

Lol you have still presented NO facts in your argument. While your first argument is most likely correct, without any statistics, it holds no weight. And you are right, I have no idea if legalization would lead to more users but logically it makes sense. To straight up say that it is not true is plain ignorance. And you do have a good point with your last 2 sentences, but I could just say that a lot of people are too scared to try drugs because either A. They dont want to get caught, or B. They are scared of the health risks. Now if they were legal people could think "well they cant be that bad if I can get them at a store" Im not saying that any of this is true but it would make sense.

That first part is true and well-known. It's one of the major reasons why the ban on alcohol was repealed. As for that second part, you're really underestimating people. They are not THAT stupid to think that it being sold in a store makes it more safer.
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TopTierHustler

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#140 TopTierHustler
Member since 2012 • 3894 Posts

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"] Yeah. In fact, the WHO concluded that cocaine is not even particularly dangerous after a massive study, and the US government said that if the full study was ever released, the WHO would be defunded (essentially killing them). Drugs aren't illegal because they're dangerous, people who think that are ignorant.l4dak47

yeah, now I know you're full of crap.

Cocaine is bad for your heart, yes, but so is caffeine and nicotine. It's the nasty sh*t that cocaine is cut with that makes it so deadly. If cocaine was regulated, there would be more of a quality control.

I need studies.

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l4dak47

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#141 l4dak47
Member since 2009 • 6838 Posts

[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]yeah, now I know you're full of crap.

TopTierHustler

Cocaine is bad for your heart, yes, but so is caffeine and nicotine. It's the nasty sh*t that cocaine is cut with that makes it so deadly. If cocaine was regulated, there would be more of a quality control.

I need studies.

http://www.tromboldlaw.com/2010/11/cocaine-users-are-getting-more-than-they-bargained-for-in-washington/
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TopTierHustler

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#142 TopTierHustler
Member since 2012 • 3894 Posts

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Weight loss is not just about eating less. I'm surprised you actually said that. There are numerous sources out there that show that obesity is caused by much more than just excessively large portion sizes. As for those consequences, you have yet to convince me that they are unavoidable.ghoklebutter

no, it's eating less.

It's just basica math, if more goes out then comes in, there is a net loss.

Yes, the level of food intake does matter. So does the food you're eating, exercise, hormonal problems, genetic disposition to obesity, and a myriad of other factors.

Which all go out the window when you reduce calorie intake.

basic math. When more goes out then goes it, weight is lost.

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TopTierHustler

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#143 TopTierHustler
Member since 2012 • 3894 Posts

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] Cocaine is bad for your heart, yes, but so is caffeine and nicotine. It's the nasty sh*t that cocaine is cut with that makes it so deadly. If cocaine was regulated, there would be more of a quality control. l4dak47

I need studies.

http://www.tromboldlaw.com/2010/11/cocaine-users-are-getting-more-than-they-bargained-for-in-washington/

This doesn't say that coke doesn't cause heart problems, it just says that another chemical people are cutting it with is causing immune system problems.

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TopTierHustler

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#144 TopTierHustler
Member since 2012 • 3894 Posts

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="l4dak47"] There are several benefits to it being legalized and multiple negative effects to it being illegal. -Sun_Tzu-

No country has ever done that, so you don't know that.

You're presenting opinion as fact.

You do realize that all drugs were legal before they were illegal, right?

yes, and there were alot of problems with people using them, even knowing they were addicting.

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ghoklebutter

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#145 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]no, it's eating less.

It's just basica math, if more goes out then comes in, there is a net loss.

TopTierHustler

Yes, the level of food intake does matter. So does the food you're eating, exercise, hormonal problems, genetic disposition to obesity, and a myriad of other factors.

Which all go out the window when you reduce calorie intake.

basic math. When more goes out then goes it, weight is lost.

I have to see evidence that calorie intake overrides all of those other factors before I can believe such a hasty statement.
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Capitan_Kid

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#146 Capitan_Kid
Member since 2009 • 6700 Posts

Apples & Oranges.

They should fund both and there's tons of things tio cut to get there.

JoGoSo
This. Both are despicable crimes worthy of the death penalty
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mingmao3046

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#147 mingmao3046
Member since 2011 • 2683 Posts
[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Yes, the level of food intake does matter. So does the food you're eating, exercise, hormonal problems, genetic disposition to obesity, and a myriad of other factors.ghoklebutter

Which all go out the window when you reduce calorie intake.

basic math. When more goes out then goes it, weight is lost.

I have to see evidence that calorie intake overrides all of those other factors before I can believe such a hasty statement.

what? calories in....calories out..... thats all you need to know
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#148 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]No country has ever done that, so you don't know that.

You're presenting opinion as fact.

TopTierHustler

You do realize that all drugs were legal before they were illegal, right?

yes, and there were alot of problems with people using them, even knowing they were addicting.

And those public health problems were only made worse when they were made illegal. They weren't made illegal because of the public health problems they might've been causing. They were made illegal because the scary minorities were using them. The only reason why alcohol and cigarettes are legal is because those are the white man's drugs of choice.
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thebest31406

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#149 thebest31406
Member since 2004 • 3775 Posts
[QUOTE="Jolt_counter119"]

The war on drugs should be remembered as an embarrassing mistep in American history, but I fear we will just take it farther and farther. Realization that something just isn't working and fixing it isn't a strong suit in America.

-Sun_Tzu-
It's the civil rights issue of our time. The US has about 5% of the world's population but holds a quarter of the world's prisoners. And even though drug usage rates are roughly the same between all demographics, prisons in America are disproportionately filled with minorities who will live the rest of their lives as second class citizens who will never be able to vote again and have an incredibly difficult time ever finding steady work.

Indeed. You can't really talk about the war on drugs without having some serious dialog about the ones who are affect by it the most.
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TopTierHustler

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#150 TopTierHustler
Member since 2012 • 3894 Posts

[QUOTE="TopTierHustler"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Yes, the level of food intake does matter. So does the food you're eating, exercise, hormonal problems, genetic disposition to obesity, and a myriad of other factors.ghoklebutter

Which all go out the window when you reduce calorie intake.

basic math. When more goes out then goes it, weight is lost.

I have to see evidence that calorie intake overrides all of those other factors before I can believe such a hasty statement.

I can't state this any more simply.

If you burn more calories than you consume, you lose weight. No exceptions.