Moral inversion that's become widely-accepted.

If two people love each other, why shouldn't they be allowed to engage in sexual intercourse? Why is an arbitrary man-made "legal contract" necessary? GettingTired

Refer to the "SEX IS NOT A HANDSHAKE" comment...

[QUOTE="Miyomatic"]

I graduated a couple of years ago, and even now I often hear how popular "sexting" has gotten with the girls in the classes below me. Makes me scared to have a daughter someday...

mattbbpl

Text + sex = sexting

This is what i have to say about the issue: Marriage is not necessary. I feel that the perfect relationship is between two people. A person should never have more than one partner in their life, otherwise they are not trustworthy. How can you trust them if they have had multiple partners in the past (i'm not only talking about sexual partners), and you are just number 4 or 5 or 6 out of all of the people that they either betrayed or were not smart enough to realize that they were not going to be good together? I can't help but think of it as someone putting you on a waiting list until it is your turn..you know?

Now about marriage not being necessary. You love someone, and they love you. WHY do you need to be married? To express your love for each other? Tradition? Because you are religous? If you truly love your partner, you should be able to express your love for him/her without having to be married. Marriage is just an ancient ritual and tradition with no meaning at all, as proven by todays society with huge divorce rates.

You know, having a girlfriend sounds like it would be fun right now. Someone to be with and love in a non-family way. But then i look around at all the girls and i don't SEE anyone that i could trust for the rest of my life. Why? because they all have this belief that it is okay to love multiple people in that Non-family way, even if it is at different times in their lives. By having more than one "boy friend", or someone they love in a non-family way, they have already proven that they are not worthy of being trusted and loved (same goes both ways, boys and girls).

The problem is that we live in a moralless and valueless society. Rather than choosing someone to be your significant other based on their beliefs and values, most people choose their SO based on their personality and looks. This lack of beliefs is the reason for such a huge divorce rate. You can only be with someone who has the exact same values and morals as you, otherwise you are not going to have a good relationship (as i could tell by my mom/dad, Stepmom/dad, and Mom/stepdad...none of them have what i would consider a good relationship with no arguing or voice raising). If you choose your SO based on their morals and values, then there will be no arguing, or fights, or voice raising because you will automatically agree with everything your SO does. My dad and step mom are a good example of this. My dad is selfish and wants his time for himself, but my step mom is an altruist and volunteers for everything (and it gets annoying when she volunteers me to do things), so they end up having arguments or "fights" because they don't have the same values.

Just recently i had to sit in a group with a few other kids and determine what females are like when they are drunk (we had to label them with names and sayings). I've never seen a person when he/she was drunk, but the other kids in my group had. They ended up calling the women who were drunk a whole lot of names that I won't say, and as they were describing them I couldn't help but think "These are the types of people who are moralless, valueless, and the ones who are destroying what could make humanity something great". I can tell, just by listening to those punks, that they are not the type of person i would want my future SO to have had a relationship with...would you want your SO to have had a relationship with someone who swears, drinks and probably smokes and has been in multiple relationships before yours (i could tell they had been in many based on the way they were talking)?

Basically, i have a huge problem with the way relationships are currently handeled in the world. I think the problem boils down to Morals and Values. Most people don't have them, and many of those that do simply don't care.

hoola

Ok, first off, what's wrong with smoking and drinking? How does that make someone a morally inferior character?

Secondly, people break up for reasons other than something underhanded and distrustworthy. People change, and why shouldn't they? The majority of people have probably been in a relationship with someone they honestly thought was their one and only, and then it ended. There's nothing morally reprehensible with that, it shows that everyone has their own path.

[QUOTE="hoola"]

Basically, i have a huge problem with the way relationships are currently handeled in the world. I think the problem boils down to Morals and Values. Most people don't have them, and many of those that do simply don't care.

Miyomatic

I agree for the most part, however, I live in the US, so I cant comment on the whole world.

You are right. I suppose i should change that. It is probably different in other parts of the world...but maybe it isn't.

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="Miyomatic"]

I graduated a couple of years ago, and even now I often hear how popular "sexting" has gotten with the girls in the classes below me. Makes me scared to have a daughter someday...

Text + sex = sexting

[QUOTE="Miyomatic"]

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"] I've never heard that one before. Should I be afraid to ask what it is?mattbbpl

Text + sex = sexting

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="Miyomatic"]

Text + sex = sexting

clyde46

[QUOTE="clyde46"][QUOTE="mattbbpl"] That didn't really tell me much, so I looked it up on Wiki. My nephew recently got caught doing that by his school... Weird.mattbbpl

Mostly pics, sometimes video. Admittedly, I made a few homemade pornos on my cell with a girlfriend back in school. She wanted me to send it to her phone for whatever reason, so I did. Lets just say her mom didnt like that....

I agree with you Thread Creator. I think this whole Pre-Marital thing started in the 60s. Just like Vatican II :evil:

I enjoy premarital sex and see no problem with it.

I guess very few people got the point of what my original post was about. The fact is that at one point, sex was widely-viewed as something both personal and important enough to share with just your permanent mate. The post was not about marrying just to have sex. If you weren't able to discern that from the post, then you don't belong in this conversation. Now, if you can debate the negative effects that casual and pre-marital sex have had on our society as a whole, feel free to do so. I listed just a few of the major effects in my original post.

I'm not interested in people who say: "Pre-marital sex is ok, the hippies changed all that." The simple fact that we had "the summer of love" doesn't make the whole thing "OK." Now, we might be able to point to that time period and say- "Now that's when society's view of sex started to change," but that doesn't make it a positive change. Prove to me that it has been a positive change with some valid points, and you may have something. Anytime you take something that was held as sacred and special, and you cheapen it, that is not a positive change.

[QUOTE="xTheExploited"]Marriage is about proving your love to the other person. If a person is worrying about not being able to have sex with anyone other then one person then they shouldn't be getting married because they are obviously not ready for it. Sex isn't something that is really emotional and personal any more. Society changes.IcyToasters

Marriage is also about loyalty to the other person that you claim to love. If you can't keep your genitals restricted to the marriage, you don't belong in the relationship either. Love is a lie without loyalty to back it up. Sex IS something very emotional, and if you don't feel that way, that's just because you've become very detached from your human side. Which is something that is afflicting our society as a whole.

There have been some very interesting, if not always well-educated responses in this thread. Simply because something has become the norm in society does not make it "OK," especially when we can readily point to a host of large issues that have been caused by the more "lax" view of sex.

Also- do not condemn marriage because of what our society has made it. Don't forget- marriage became what it is today in large part due to the moral degradation of our society in regards to sex. It would not be the purely "legal and meaningless" thing that so many of us think that it is if we just treated it with the respect that it deserves. The excuse that "all is ok because society changes" is no excuse at all. Tell me something I don't know! What I DO know is that we didn't have nearly as many sex-related issues when a larger portion of our society treated it as something deeply emotional, something to be respected. It is, of course, much easier to just point to the institution of marriage itself as the culprit. When marriage is done right, it has been proven to be the ultimate union. Unfortunately, very few people are lucky enough to find someone compatible enough to "lock themselves in with," and even fewer are willing to have the discipline and hard work that it takes to make the marriage work.

All in all, I'm just sick of people complaining about their emotional problems, sex-related issues (such as the ones in my original post), and failed marriages. Obviously, nobody lives a perfect life. What bothers me is when people cry and moan about their problems, when a little old-fashioned discipline and a sense of moral values is the fix. Then you show them the long-term solution and they brush it off, just because they want to get their rocks off when they please. That's all this boils down to in the end. People just want to get off when they please, so they blind themselves to anything that might prevent that.

If you think the main purpose behind marriage is being able to have sex with someone you're getting married for all the wrong reasons. I'd still marry the girl I want to marry even if for some reasons we couldn't have sex anymore. Sex should have nothing to do with marriage one way or the other, it's an intimate, beautiful and extremely satisfying act of nature that that reduces levels of stress, boosts your immune system, reduces that chances of prostate cancer, helps you sleep better, is impotant to your mental health .......and is now even proven to reduce chances of heart attack in men by up to 45%. You should always be safe about it and only do it with someone you truly care about but it isn't some kind of holy act sanctioned by god to have iwth one person once you have the proper papers signed.

Vennligsinnet

I'm assuming that God was familiar with the health-related benefits of sex when he created the act. You don't have to tell me about them, I'm very well aware of them. If you view sex with a spiritual eye like I do, you realize that the solution is to find a mate you can love and be loyal to, rather than throwing the health-related benefits in people's faces as an excuse to get it on more.

[QUOTE="Vennligsinnet"]

If you think the main purpose behind marriage is being able to have sex with someone you're getting married for all the wrong reasons. I'd still marry the girl I want to marry even if for some reasons we couldn't have sex anymore. Sex should have nothing to do with marriage one way or the other, it's an intimate, beautiful and extremely satisfying act of nature that that reduces levels of stress, boosts your immune system, reduces that chances of prostate cancer, helps you sleep better, is impotant to your mental health .......and is now even proven to reduce chances of heart attack in men by up to 45%. You should always be safe about it and only do it with someone you truly care about but it isn't some kind of holy act sanctioned by god to have iwth one person once you have the proper papers signed.

hartsickdiscipl

I'm assuming that God was familiar with the health-related benefits of sex when he created the act. You don't have to tell me about them, I'm very well aware of them. If you view sex with a spiritual eye like I do, you realize that the solution is to find a mate you can love and be loyal to, rather than throwing the health-related benefits in people's faces as an excuse to get it on more.

I can definitely agree with you in part

I will raise the point that way back in the day, sex....was really dumb. It was often a one-way thing that neither party knew much about, and it was more a burden than anything, at least with the one you were married to. Which is why prostitutes were around...because they were skilled and actually knew what sex was.

I mean, much like today, I'm just speaking in generalities, but sex used to be....real straight forward. No foreplay. No experimenting. Often heavy drinking to forget about it. Would I take a more responsible society than a more sexually active and diverse society? Sure, but only with the clause that each married couple undergo a year of sex therapy :P Because having sexual relations get backdated to the early 1900s again where women were birthing canals and not supposed to be responsive or like sex, would be awful. And yeah, technically that shouldnt need to happen but with how society is (I am just thinking realistically here) you would basically have to censor all sexual content and reduce the socializing between males and females through their teen years. Basically rewriting society.

The only wrongfulness of premarital sex that I can think of has come out of religion. The act of sex is human nature that has been around since day one. Sex is a survival instinct. Before we knew how to make love, we just acted on the instinct that tells us we must perpetuate ourselves. In this way, the formal concept of marriage hasn't been around forever – it's a human generated concept, just like premarital sex is. We decided that premarital sex was wrong not too long ago, just like we've decided that it's acceptable in these days, in a world that is freer than it has ever been in written history. Perhaps society has come to realize that we shouldn't disprove of something that is basic human nature – the thing, in fact, that ensured that humanity is still here today.

I can see this explanation as objectifying sex. It is, but when you get down to it, sex is just a survival instinct. It's also whatever you make it to be. If sex is a sacred act to you meant for a couple who have eternally devoted themselves to each other, then that's great. If that will keep sex valuable to you, then go for it. Everyone places different value on sex. If people want to have multiple consenting partners, then they should be allowed to do that with the full approval of society. After all, how could a basic human function be wrong? It's what we were meant to do. The beauty of being human is being able to decide how to do it.

In my eyes, Marriage is a joke, and morals can very well be subjective

I for one welcome it, open sexuality, even though I'm rather a one women man(as long as she's willing for sex) but but people can do what they want.

Pre Marital sex is a sin in most religions right though? Honest question, I'm an Atheist and I never paid to much attention to the bible.

There have been some very interesting, if not always well-educated responses in this thread. Simply because something has become the norm in society does not make it "OK," especially when we can readily point to a host of large issues that have been caused by the more "lax" view of sex.

Also- do not condemn marriage because of what our society has made it. Don't forget- marriage became what it is today in large part due to the moral degradation of our society in regards to sex. It would not be the purely "legal and meaningless" thing that so many of us think that it is if we just treated it with the respect that it deserves. The excuse that "all is ok because society changes" is no excuse at all. Tell me something I don't know! What I DO know is that we didn't have nearly as many sex-related issues when a larger portion of our society treated it as something deeply emotional, something to be respected. It is, of course, much easier to just point to the institution of marriage itself as the culprit. When marriage is done right, it has been proven to be the ultimate union. Unfortunately, very few people are lucky enough to find someone compatible enough to "lock themselves in with," and even fewer are willing to have the discipline and hard work that it takes to make the marriage work.

All in all, I'm just sick of people complaining about their emotional problems, sex-related issues (such as the ones in my original post), and failed marriages. Obviously, nobody lives a perfect life. What bothers me is when people cry and moan about their problems, when a little old-fashioned discipline and a sense of moral values is the fix. Then you show them the long-term solution and they brush it off, just because they want to get their rocks off when they please. That's all this boils down to in the end. People just want to get off when they please, so they blind themselves to anything that might prevent that.

hartsickdiscipl

I don't believe that "back in the days" sex was something that was reserved only for marriage. What changed is the public view on morals rather than the morality itself. Sex has always had an important place in society. It's part of our nature. Back in the days, it was taboo to talk about it, but that doesn't mean there was any less sexual engagement than now, both before and after marriage. People just didn't spread it in the news like today.

Most people around me are virgins, so I am content :lol:

But yeah, I hate it when people try to be as anti-morals as they can. Having sex with anything that moves, smoking weed, failing miserably at school, "gangsta", crimes and what not. It's embarassing to be the same age group/race/sex/etc. as these people. But I don't get much chance to meet them - but they always hear about them, and I'm always scared to hear about what other people will say. "Teenagers are so unruly these days" - not ALL of us (and I'm not being arrogant), such a generalization is really unfair.

I'm not going to have premarital sex, but I will forgive my wife if she has had any.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Can't say I agree in the slightest that our morals are going down the drain...

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

There have been some very interesting, if not always well-educated responses in this thread. Simply because something has become the norm in society does not make it "OK," especially when we can readily point to a host of large issues that have been caused by the more "lax" view of sex.

Also- do not condemn marriage because of what our society has made it. Don't forget- marriage became what it is today in large part due to the moral degradation of our society in regards to sex. It would not be the purely "legal and meaningless" thing that so many of us think that it is if we just treated it with the respect that it deserves. The excuse that "all is ok because society changes" is no excuse at all. Tell me something I don't know! What I DO know is that we didn't have nearly as many sex-related issues when a larger portion of our society treated it as something deeply emotional, something to be respected. It is, of course, much easier to just point to the institution of marriage itself as the culprit. When marriage is done right, it has been proven to be the ultimate union. Unfortunately, very few people are lucky enough to find someone compatible enough to "lock themselves in with," and even fewer are willing to have the discipline and hard work that it takes to make the marriage work.

All in all, I'm just sick of people complaining about their emotional problems, sex-related issues (such as the ones in my original post), and failed marriages. Obviously, nobody lives a perfect life. What bothers me is when people cry and moan about their problems, when a little old-fashioned discipline and a sense of moral values is the fix. Then you show them the long-term solution and they brush it off, just because they want to get their rocks off when they please. That's all this boils down to in the end. People just want to get off when they please, so they blind themselves to anything that might prevent that.

HerrJosefK

Let me put in simple terms that transcend cultural and religious barriers- Restricting yourself to one mate that you are committed to all but eliminates:

-unwanted pregnancies resulting from unmarried people having sex.

-the emotional difficulties that children born from unmarried parents face. Especially when the parents don't stay together in any sort of committed relationship to raise the child (happens more often than not). Children naturally need to have a mother and a father. When one, the other, or both are missing, the child loses out.

Assuming the sexual partners use "safe sex" and there is no pregnancy, you still face these issues that are very prevelant in society today:

-the spread of STDs from having multiple sex partners

-Emotional issues that ARE inherent to people having multiple partners. When I say this, I am referring to the "boy, I feel like crap that I slept with that person I didn't love last night" feeling. Also- the loss of self-worth that self-respecting people feel when they give up their intimacy to someone who they later find out didn't take the act of sex as seriously as they did. Marriage helps to eliminate these problems, if it is USED CORRECTLY. Anything can be misused and trampled on, as marriage has been.

I have made irrefutable arguments that sex only within committed relationships, and more specifically, marriages is beneficial to society. If you can come up with more relevant benefits to the sexual promescuity that is prevelant in today's society, be my guest. I didn't even address the "moral" side of "right and wrong" that is taught by religions in regards to sex. To those who don't believe in holy texts such as the Bible, consider this- Where did the IDEAS that murder, rape, theft, AND fornication, as well as infidelity come from? They came from religion, and from the writings such as those in the Bible and other holy texts across multiple cultures. So you choose to follow SOME of the ideas from these texts because you believe them to be black and white, right and wrong.. but not others?

The simple answer for why our society has taken such a view of sex lies in the nature of humans. We seek pleasure, and we seek the easy and quick way to get it. The right way is often far from the easy way.

Completely agree with everything you said. Great post.

You have my utmost empathy and support, hartsickdiscipl. You articulate views that have been latent in my mind for god knows how long. I'm so sick and tired of standing alone on this issue, I'm not even going to argue the point. Thank you for saying what needs to be said. eh7nkjn4bFFF9nw

Yeah, I know. I thought I was the only one that thought this way :P

That sentence was redundant yes I know.

Damn why are you guys so hung up about premarital sex and "purity" and all that nonsense?? These are just ideals that just don't pan out in real life. People are sexual animals, bar none. Be safe and don't stick your junk into everything that moves and you should be fine. BTW how are you gonna get the skills to please the opposite (or same sex) if you don't go up to bat every so often? I think most of you guys have a really unhealthy view of sex, too many associations with morality, purity and having a good character.

So what if a girl has had multiple partners in her life? Are you just upset you don't have the attractiveness to get women to desire you? Its alot like driving a car, you need to take the person out on a few test-drives before you commit. A horrible sex life caused by a severly inexperienced mate is terrible. Throw all that moral hogwash out and just be alive. Zomg I slept with someone I just met, I'm a horrible dirty person now waaa! Grow up, adults get it on till' the break of dawn.

[QUOTE="eh7nkjn4bFFF9nw"]You have my utmost empathy and support, hartsickdiscipl. You articulate views that have been latent in my mind for god knows how long. I'm so sick and tired of standing alone on this issue, I'm not even going to argue the point. Thank you for saying what needs to be said. Snipes_2

Yeah, I know. I thought I was the only one that thought this way :P

That sentence was redundant yes I know.

Damn why are you guys so hung up about premarital sex and "purity" and all that nonsense?? These are just ideals that just don't pan out in real life. People are sexual animals, bar none. Be safe and don't stick your junk into everything that moves and you should be fine. BTW how are you gonna get the skills to please the opposite (or same sex) if you don't go up to bat every so often? I think most of you guys have a really unhealthy view of sex, too many associations with morality, purity and having a good character.

So what if a girl has had multiple partners in her life? Are you just upset you don't have the attractiveness to get women to desire you? Its alot like driving a car, you need to take the person out on a few test-drives before you commit. A horrible sex life caused by a severly inexperienced mate is terrible. Throw all that moral hogwash out and just be alive. Zomg I slept with someone I just met, I'm a horrible dirty person now waaa! Grow up, adults get it on till' the break of dawn.

ScorpionBeeBee

His post wasn't about purity. It was about common sense. Let me condense it for you.

(All of these are of course assuming that nothing really weird happens that isn't sex-related anyways)

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't get pregnant.

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, your kids won't be raised exclusively by a single parent.

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't get an STD

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't have emotional issues from past partners.

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't suffer from ANY sort of problem that might arise from having sex before you're married.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand. Sex is not essential to survival or some human "right." You can avoid a lot of problems by not having sex before you're married. That's just common sense and self control. Who cares whether it's "pure" or not.

[QUOTE="Snipes_2"]

[QUOTE="eh7nkjn4bFFF9nw"]You have my utmost empathy and support, hartsickdiscipl. You articulate views that have been latent in my mind for god knows how long. I'm so sick and tired of standing alone on this issue, I'm not even going to argue the point. Thank you for saying what needs to be said. ScorpionBeeBee

Yeah, I know. I thought I was the only one that thought this way :P

That sentence was redundant yes I know.

IF they felt dirty about it people wouldn't be doing it as often and they certainly would not brag about it. And I can guarantee movies wouldn't have any subject matter in them either.

His post wasn't about purity. It was about common sense. Let me condense it for you.(All of these are of course assuming that nothing really weird happens that isn't sex-related anyways)FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't get pregnant.FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, your kids won't be raised exclusively by a single parent.FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't get an STDFACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't have emotional issues from past partners.FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't suffer from ANY sort of problem that might arise from having sex before you're married.I don't get why this is so hard to understand. Sex is not essential to survival or some human "right." You can avoid a lot of problems by not having sex before you're married. That's just common sense and self control. Who cares whether it's "pure" or not.Elephant_Couple

While I obviously agree with the idea that rampant promiscuity is a bad thing, I do feel that you are romanticizing history and are thus more or less fantasizing about a period of time "back then" that really did not exist, ever. Marriage is about love today much more than it used to be. Go back a couple thousand years and you'll find that marriage effectively had absolutely nothing to do with love at all; the bride was effectively property to be given away to a man. The real reason why virginity was so highly prized was not because the women were so moral and upstanding and loving, but rather because the only way not to basically starve to death as an adult woman back then was to be married to a man who would provide to you. If it was discovered that an unmarried woman was not a virgin, she would be screwed, as no one would want to marry her over a virgin lady. This was the entire reason why you get seemingly odd codes of law from back then such as that a rapist must marry the one he defiled; this was actually a rule that benefited the woman, because it ensured that she would have a husband.

You're more than welcome to decry promiscuity in society, but you do it a terrible injustice by acting as though there was a period of time in the mists of history where everyone was upstanding and moral. Everything in the world changes except for one thing: humans.

I don't believe that "back in the days" sex was something that was reserved only for marriage. What changed is the public view on morals rather than the morality itself. Sex has always had an important place in society. It's part of our nature. Back in the days, it was taboo to talk about it, but that doesn't mean there was any less sexual engagement than now, both before and after marriage. People just didn't spread it in the news like today.

Gog

No infact it was quite the opposite.. The famous Charlemagne publically had 5 wives and was known to have at least 5 misteresses, and was said to have had possibly 20 children.. This man was crowned by the Catholic church as the emperor to the Holy Roman Empire.. People who say "Well they use to do it back then!".. No they did not in alot of the time period.. And the times they did enforced it they also put you for death for not being a Christian or a certain sect, etc etc.. I don't see how any one would want to compare our society today to back then.. Its like the misguided fools who some how think the 1950s was a morally superior time, where people were real americans back then..

While I obviously agree with the idea that rampant promiscuity is a bad thing, I do feel that you are romanticizing history and are thus more or less fantasizing about a period of time "back then" that really did not exist, ever. Marriage is about love today much more than it used to be. Go back a couple thousand years and you'll find that marriage effectively had absolutely nothing to do with love at all; the bride was effectively property to be given away to a man. The real reason why virginity was so highly prized was not because the women were so moral and upstanding and loving, but rather because the only way not to basically starve to death as an adult woman back then was to be married to a man who would provide to you. If it was discovered that an unmarried woman was not a virgin, she would be screwed, as no one would want to marry her over a virgin lady. This was the entire reason why you get seemingly odd codes of law from back then such as that a rapist must marry the one he defiled; this was actually a rule that benefited the woman, because it ensured that she would have a husband.

You're more than welcome to decry promiscuity in society, but you do it a terrible injustice by acting as though there was a period of time in the mists of history where everyone was upstanding and moral. Everything in the world changes except for one thing: humans.

GabuEx

Hehe yeah always makes me chuckle of what people thought European Knights were like.. They think of the dashing and just Lancelot, when infact they were far more similar to a modern day mob enforcer..

[QUOTE="Elephant_Couple"]His post wasn't about purity. It was about common sense. Let me condense it for you.(All of these are of course assuming that nothing really weird happens that isn't sex-related anyways)FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't get pregnant.FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, your kids won't be raised exclusively by a single parent.FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't get an STDFACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't have emotional issues from past partners.FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't suffer from ANY sort of problem that might arise from having sex before you're married.I don't get why this is so hard to understand. Sex is not essential to survival or some human "right." You can avoid a lot of problems by not having sex before you're married. That's just common sense and self control. Who cares whether it's "pure" or not.Setsa

That's great. That's not what I was talking about. Not having sex before you're married can prevent a lot of huge problems. Abstinence-only education is not the way to go, but why is the idea of abstinence shunned? It makes ZERO sense.

I want to preface this semi-tirade with a statement- I have had pre-marital sex.

Ok, that's out of the way. :P Now, on to the real subject- How is it that we as a society have come to so widely accept pre-marital sex, and even casual sex as normal and acceptable, and yet those same people choose to get married?

One of the original priveleges of being married was to get to reach a level of physical and emotional intimacy with another person. The idea was that you DON'T have sex with people until you get married. This made marriage a much MORE desirable thing than it has become today, because it also included access to one of the most valuable and desirable things that a person can experience- sex.

In our world today, marriage is viewed as a burden as much as it is a privilege, partly because people think "oh crap, now that I'm married to this person, I'm not supposed to have sex with anyone else.. I liked it better when I could have sex with people without commitment. Boy it sucks being tied down."

Well NO **** Of course it feels like you're being tied down, because if you choose to get married today, you're more than likely just being tied down to a used product anyways! Such a high percentage of adults have had multiple sex partners that they weren't married to. If people weren't all screwed-up and down 50 times before they got married, the marriages would work better because the physical intimacy would be valued much more, but the sex itself would be much more valuable. The devaluing of physical intimacy in our society has created a huge moral inversion that is to blame for many problems that we face.. namely:

-Unwanted pregnancies due to pre-marital (non-commital) sex

-The spread of STDs due to pre-marital sex with multiple partners

-The devaluing of physical intimacy in a relationship (since so many of us have already had sex many times before)

-Adds to divorce rates due to people feeling "ok" with having sex with someone other than their spouse. Having a "mate" used to mean that you just "mated" with that person. It's not a hard concept, but our moral weakness has apparently changed that.

Now you've heard my piece. Feel free to comment however you like.. just please don't argue that having lots of pre-marital sex with multiple partners doesn't devalue sex with someone that you "really care for." Sex is just like anything else that gets used too much, or misused. It loses value.hartsickdiscipl

• The purpose of marriage was not to be able to have sex, the purpose was originally a way to increase prosperity. Having children out of wedlock was more taboo than having sex out of wedlock.
• I find it funny how people build up these idealistic and, frankly, false descriptions of how things used to be, and before too long that falsehood is accepted as fact simply because of how common the misconception is. Sexual promiscuity is nothing new, the main difference now is that the woman isn't as likely to become pregnant and the act is therefore, how to put this, more widely appealing.
• There's probably conflcting evidence on this, but I have seen articles that espoused the theory that having sex before marriage actually improves the chances of success of a marriage for, among other reasons, the fact that you know what you want and what you don't in a relationship and because you know what you're getting into when you get married, it's not an, "Oh crap, I don't find this person very attuned to me intimately, but I just married them," type thing.
• I highly disagree with the use of the term, "used products," in describing human beings. Having sex does not make people damaged goods, if anything it should help them to be more proficient intimately, if they're paying attention that is.
• There's a problem in the number of pregnancies in general, doesn't have much to do with marriage. I think we have to learn as a species that there is a finite amount of space and resources available to us. Teen pregnancies are part of that problem, but if people would learn to have sex responsibly it would just about solve that aspect of it.
• Again, having sex responsibly solves this. I also think I read that the number of STDs being transmitted is going down significantly because people are practicing safer sex, and at any rate I don't think it's as big an issue as you're making it out to be.
• Intimacy is only devalued if you approach it in a way that devalues it, and if you have that attitude you're going to act that way whether you're married or not. Having a lot of sex does not mean you don't value intimacy.
• If someone cheats it's often for more reasons than just, "I think it's OK." They're usually unhappy in their relationship to begin with, meaning they should either not be in that relationship or should be doing a lot more work, and if they're married and they don't feel like working on the marriage their relationship probably shouldn't have evolved that far yet anyways. At any rate, it's their own problem, if people want to treat relationships as such it's their own perrogative.

[QUOTE="Setsa"][QUOTE="Elephant_Couple"]His post wasn't about purity. It was about common sense. Let me condense it for you.(All of these are of course assuming that nothing really weird happens that isn't sex-related anyways)FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't get pregnant.FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, your kids won't be raised exclusively by a single parent.FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't get an STDFACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't have emotional issues from past partners.FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't suffer from ANY sort of problem that might arise from having sex before you're married.I don't get why this is so hard to understand. Sex is not essential to survival or some human "right." You can avoid a lot of problems by not having sex before you're married. That's just common sense and self control. Who cares whether it's "pure" or not.Elephant_Couple

That's great. That's not what I was talking about. Not having sex before you're married can prevent a lot of huge problems. Abstinence-only education is not the way to go, but why is the idea of abstinence shunned? It makes ZERO sense.

Why do people care what other people do with their personal lives? I will never understand this attitude of, "Oh, society's shunning these values, it's going to hell in a handbasket," at least not where it concerns personal morality and choices. People have differing views and opinions on sexuality than your own, great, so what's the problem?

[QUOTE="ScorpionBeeBee"]

Damn why are you guys so hung up about premarital sex and "purity" and all that nonsense?? These are just ideals that just don't pan out in real life. People are sexual animals, bar none. Be safe and don't stick your junk into everything that moves and you should be fine. BTW how are you gonna get the skills to please the opposite (or same sex) if you don't go up to bat every so often? I think most of you guys have a really unhealthy view of sex, too many associations with morality, purity and having a good character.

So what if a girl has had multiple partners in her life? Are you just upset you don't have the attractiveness to get women to desire you? Its alot like driving a car, you need to take the person out on a few test-drives before you commit. A horrible sex life caused by a severly inexperienced mate is terrible. Throw all that moral hogwash out and just be alive. Zomg I slept with someone I just met, I'm a horrible dirty person now waaa! Grow up, adults get it on till' the break of dawn.

Elephant_Couple

His post wasn't about purity. It was about common sense. Let me condense it for you.

(All of these are of course assuming that nothing really weird happens that isn't sex-related anyways)

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't get pregnant.

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, your kids won't be raised exclusively by a single parent.

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't get an STD

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't have emotional issues from past partners.

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't suffer from ANY sort of problem that might arise from having sex before you're married.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand. Sex is not essential to survival or some human "right." You can avoid a lot of problems by not having sex before you're married. That's just common sense and self control. Who cares whether it's "pure" or not.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

I want to preface this semi-tirade with a statement- I have had pre-marital sex.

Ok, that's out of the way. :P Now, on to the real subject- How is it that we as a society have come to so widely accept pre-marital sex, and even casual sex as normal and acceptable, and yet those same people choose to get married?

One of the original priveleges of being married was to get to reach a level of physical and emotional intimacy with another person. The idea was that you DON'T have sex with people until you get married. This made marriage a much MORE desirable thing than it has become today, because it also included access to one of the most valuable and desirable things that a person can experience- sex.

In our world today, marriage is viewed as a burden as much as it is a privilege, partly because people think "oh crap, now that I'm married to this person, I'm not supposed to have sex with anyone else.. I liked it better when I could have sex with people without commitment. Boy it sucks being tied down."

Well NO **** Of course it feels like you're being tied down, because if you choose to get married today, you're more than likely just being tied down to a used product anyways! Such a high percentage of adults have had multiple sex partners that they weren't married to. If people weren't all screwed-up and down 50 times before they got married, the marriages would work better because the physical intimacy would be valued much more, but the sex itself would be much more valuable. The devaluing of physical intimacy in our society has created a huge moral inversion that is to blame for many problems that we face.. namely:

-Unwanted pregnancies due to pre-marital (non-commital) sex

-The spread of STDs due to pre-marital sex with multiple partners

-The devaluing of physical intimacy in a relationship (since so many of us have already had sex many times before)

-Adds to divorce rates due to people feeling "ok" with having sex with someone other than their spouse. Having a "mate" used to mean that you just "mated" with that person. It's not a hard concept, but our moral weakness has apparently changed that.

Now you've heard my piece. Feel free to comment however you like.. just please don't argue that having lots of pre-marital sex with multiple partners doesn't devalue sex with someone that you "really care for." Sex is just like anything else that gets used too much, or misused. It loses value.theone86

• The purpose of marriage was not to be able to have sex, the purpose was originally a way to increase prosperity. Having children out of wedlock was more taboo than having sex out of wedlock.
• I find it funny how people build up these idealistic and, frankly, false descriptions of how things used to be, and before too long that falsehood is accepted as fact simply because of how common the misconception is. Sexual promiscuity is nothing new, the main difference now is that the woman isn't as likely to become pregnant and the act is therefore, how to put this, more widely appealing.
• There's probably conflcting evidence on this, but I have seen articles that espoused the theory that having sex before marriage actually improves the chances of success of a marriage for, among other reasons, the fact that you know what you want and what you don't in a relationship and because you know what you're getting into when you get married, it's not an, "Oh crap, I don't find this person very attuned to me intimately, but I just married them," type thing.
• I highly disagree with the use of the term, "used products," in describing human beings. Having sex does not make people damaged goods, if anything it should help them to be more proficient intimately, if they're paying attention that is.
• There's a problem in the number of pregnancies in general, doesn't have much to do with marriage. I think we have to learn as a species that there is a finite amount of space and resources available to us. Teen pregnancies are part of that problem, but if people would learn to have sex responsibly it would just about solve that aspect of it.
• Again, having sex responsibly solves this. I also think I read that the number of STDs being transmitted is going down significantly because people are practicing safer sex, and at any rate I don't think it's as big an issue as you're making it out to be.
• Intimacy is only devalued if you approach it in a way that devalues it, and if you have that attitude you're going to act that way whether you're married or not. Having a lot of sex does not mean you don't value intimacy.
• If someone cheats it's often for more reasons than just, "I think it's OK." They're usually unhappy in their relationship to begin with, meaning they should either not be in that relationship or should be doing a lot more work, and if they're married and they don't feel like working on the marriage their relationship probably shouldn't have evolved that far yet anyways. At any rate, it's their own problem, if people want to treat relationships as such it's their own perrogative.

You need to read the rest of the thread. Your first bullet-point proves that you didn't get the point of what I, or the others arguing my point were getting at.

His post wasn't about purity. It was about common sense. Let me condense it for you.

(All of these are of course assuming that nothing really weird happens that isn't sex-related anyways)

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't get pregnant.

Orly? So having sex before you get married prevents you from ever getting pregnant ever? I know what you meant but you need to be precise and clear.

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, your kids won't be raised exclusively by a single parent.

Uhhhh that's far from fact. There are many occurances in which a married couple has a baby and one of them dies, goes to prison, or simply runs off, all of which causing a kid to be raised by a single parent.

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't get an STD

Again false, you can even get certain STDs from a hottub that isn't properly maintained. Also, who's to say the person you marry doesn't a;ready have an STD or won't get one later on?

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't have emotional issues from past partners.

I'm pretty sure sex isn't a requirewd ingrediant in a screwed up relationship. You don't have sex with your parents but plenty of peope have screwed up relationships with them don't they?

FACT: If you don't have sex before you're married, you won't suffer from ANY sort of problem that might arise from having sex before you're married.

I guess I can't really argue with this except that I proved all of your problems with premarital sex to be either completely wrong or faulty in one way or another.

I don't get why this is so hard to understand. Sex is not essential to survival or some human "right." You can avoid a lot of problems by not having sex before you're married. That's just common sense and self control. Who cares whether it's "pure" or not.

Elephant_Couple

Why are people discussing sex like it's some sort of disease? All the problems it can cause are easily avoidable. And wow the hell does any of those problems diminish in damage after you're married? And why the hell must we get married anyway? You'd think people would have already ditched such a bad habit. What a terrible way of handling human sexual, emotional and romantic interaction.joao_22990

Completely agreed. And thanks to Jocks having sex with like 10 different girls before they even reach 20, people like me can't even find a virgin to *marry*.th3warr1or

Oh yes, because something that has worked for thousands of years is a bad habit and a terrible way of handling sexual and romantic interaction. th3warr1or