Moral inversion that's become widely-accepted.

And to the people who say that people aren't "damaged goods" if they have too much non-committed sex.. IMO, you're just wrong. Maybe in denial or something.

To those who compare any part of this discussion to driving a car, or to anything else with statements like- "well i might get in an accident if I drive a car, so should I just not drive a car?".. Wake up. You have to drive a car to get to work, or use some other means of transport. You don't have to have sex before you're married. End of argument. In fact, you don't even HAVE to have sex to have a child anymore! But the act was created for this purpose, so let's use it for this purpose.. or at least NOT use it in situations where we know we won't be happy with the consequences if someone DOES get pregnant. I think using birth control as a way around abstinence is the equivalent of jumping through rings of fire because it FEELS good, wearing a rubber suit that MIGHT protect you from getting burned, but might not. If you wanted to avoid the risk, don't jump through the fire idiot.

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"]Completely agreed. And thanks to Jocks having sex with like 10 different girls before they even reach 20, people like me can't even find a virgin to *marry*.ScorpionBeeBee

It's a natural male desire to be with a woman who has never been with another man. For a guy (or a girl) to want a virgin is completely natural, as much for the emotional and mental purity, as it is for the physical.

Yes issues can arise from casual sex, however recognition that people will follow their natural instincts should be embraced and addressed in order to educate and instill in people a sense of accountability and responsibility. I don't believe sex is devalued by having multiple partners pre-marriage, nor does it have an impact of the longevity of a marriage. We live high-pressure and disposable lifestyles in comparison to that of our parents and grandparents. Attitudes towards sex aren't to blame; they're a bi-product of our broader attitudes and increasingly liberal mindedness.

An analogy can be made when comparing careers of the fickle-minded gen Y's to that of our Grandparents; the majority of people today will have numerous careers over the course of their lifetime, whereas those of the baby-booming era tend to have only one vocation. These same disposable attitudes can be transposed onto those towards marriage. Perhaps people today simply have a greater thirst for knowledge and experience, which we should recognise rather than re-impose archaic value system designed to suppress their natural instincts.

[QUOTE="ScorpionBeeBee"]

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"]Completely agreed. And thanks to Jocks having sex with like 10 different girls before they even reach 20, people like me can't even find a virgin to *marry*.hartsickdiscipl

It's a natural male desire to be with a woman who has never been with another man. For a guy (or a girl) to want a virgin is completely natural, as much for the emotional and mental purity, as it is for the physical.

"Damaged goods" my butt. Yep everyone but you is getting it on and deep, deep, deep down its killing you! You are home on the weekends brooding over how much of a whore those girls are that won't like you back. Did I hit the nail on the head or what? I was once in your shoes, due to my heavy pentecostal upbringing. 4 years in the army and I got all the confidence I needed to be a hit with the ladies. Ugh I can't get over that damaged goods comment, that instantly exposed the lonely hater in you.

[QUOTE="ScorpionBeeBee"]

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"]Completely agreed. And thanks to Jocks having sex with like 10 different girls before they even reach 20, people like me can't even find a virgin to *marry*.hartsickdiscipl

It's a natural male desire to be with a woman who has never been with another man. For a guy (or a girl) to want a virgin is completely natural, as much for the emotional and mental purity, as it is for the physical.

'Purity' is a rather romantic notion, however phrases such as 'emotional purity' or 'mental purity' don't really mean anything.

My girlfriend and I have had numerous partners before we got together. Are you say that our sex life is devalued because our past frivolities? If your analogy that something loses value after multiple several uses were true, then sex with your spouse would decrease in value over time as well? Well no of course it doesn't – you don't feel any less intimate with your partner because of previous actions. It seems you place a greater value on virginity and those romantic notions of purity over intimacy.

you're more than likely just being tied down to a used product anyways! hartsickdiscipl

I have to disagree, on almost all counts. Historically, marriage has been a means towards financial stability, and until somewhat recently it's been a very oppressive institution towards women.

And I don't like this idea of looking at people who have had pre-marital sex as "used products". My past sexual relationships don't effect the intimacy I share with my girlfriend one bit. Nor do I like the claim that pre-marital sex is responsible for things like unwanted pregnancies. Married couples have unwanted pregnancies all the time - having a wedding band on your finger doesn't make you immune from the laws of nature.

It's a natural male desire to be with a woman who has never been with another man. For a guy (or a girl) to want a virgin is completely natural, as much for the emotional and mental purity, as it is for the physical.

hartsickdiscipl

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

I want to preface this semi-tirade with a statement- I have had pre-marital sex.

Ok, that's out of the way. :P Now, on to the real subject- How is it that we as a society have come to so widely accept pre-marital sex, and even casual sex as normal and acceptable, and yet those same people choose to get married?

One of the original priveleges of being married was to get to reach a level of physical and emotional intimacy with another person. The idea was that you DON'T have sex with people until you get married. This made marriage a much MORE desirable thing than it has become today, because it also included access to one of the most valuable and desirable things that a person can experience- sex.

In our world today, marriage is viewed as a burden as much as it is a privilege, partly because people think "oh crap, now that I'm married to this person, I'm not supposed to have sex with anyone else.. I liked it better when I could have sex with people without commitment. Boy it sucks being tied down."

Well NO **** Of course it feels like you're being tied down, because if you choose to get married today, you're more than likely just being tied down to a used product anyways! Such a high percentage of adults have had multiple sex partners that they weren't married to. If people weren't all screwed-up and down 50 times before they got married, the marriages would work better because the physical intimacy would be valued much more, but the sex itself would be much more valuable. The devaluing of physical intimacy in our society has created a huge moral inversion that is to blame for many problems that we face.. namely:

-Unwanted pregnancies due to pre-marital (non-commital) sex

-The spread of STDs due to pre-marital sex with multiple partners

-The devaluing of physical intimacy in a relationship (since so many of us have already had sex many times before)

-Adds to divorce rates due to people feeling "ok" with having sex with someone other than their spouse. Having a "mate" used to mean that you just "mated" with that person. It's not a hard concept, but our moral weakness has apparently changed that.

Now you've heard my piece. Feel free to comment however you like.. just please don't argue that having lots of pre-marital sex with multiple partners doesn't devalue sex with someone that you "really care for." Sex is just like anything else that gets used too much, or misused. It loses value.hartsickdiscipl

• The purpose of marriage was not to be able to have sex, the purpose was originally a way to increase prosperity. Having children out of wedlock was more taboo than having sex out of wedlock.
• I find it funny how people build up these idealistic and, frankly, false descriptions of how things used to be, and before too long that falsehood is accepted as fact simply because of how common the misconception is. Sexual promiscuity is nothing new, the main difference now is that the woman isn't as likely to become pregnant and the act is therefore, how to put this, more widely appealing.
• There's probably conflcting evidence on this, but I have seen articles that espoused the theory that having sex before marriage actually improves the chances of success of a marriage for, among other reasons, the fact that you know what you want and what you don't in a relationship and because you know what you're getting into when you get married, it's not an, "Oh crap, I don't find this person very attuned to me intimately, but I just married them," type thing.
• I highly disagree with the use of the term, "used products," in describing human beings. Having sex does not make people damaged goods, if anything it should help them to be more proficient intimately, if they're paying attention that is.
• There's a problem in the number of pregnancies in general, doesn't have much to do with marriage. I think we have to learn as a species that there is a finite amount of space and resources available to us. Teen pregnancies are part of that problem, but if people would learn to have sex responsibly it would just about solve that aspect of it.
• Again, having sex responsibly solves this. I also think I read that the number of STDs being transmitted is going down significantly because people are practicing safer sex, and at any rate I don't think it's as big an issue as you're making it out to be.
• Intimacy is only devalued if you approach it in a way that devalues it, and if you have that attitude you're going to act that way whether you're married or not. Having a lot of sex does not mean you don't value intimacy.
• If someone cheats it's often for more reasons than just, "I think it's OK." They're usually unhappy in their relationship to begin with, meaning they should either not be in that relationship or should be doing a lot more work, and if they're married and they don't feel like working on the marriage their relationship probably shouldn't have evolved that far yet anyways. At any rate, it's their own problem, if people want to treat relationships as such it's their own perrogative.

You need to read the rest of the thread. Your first bullet-point proves that you didn't get the point of what I, or the others arguing my point were getting at.

No, you said one of the original priveledges of marriage was having sex, my first bullet point was only pointing out the falsity of that. Also, there's a difference between not getting the point and not agreeing with the point.

[QUOTE="ScorpionBeeBee"]

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"]Completely agreed. And thanks to Jocks having sex with like 10 different girls before they even reach 20, people like me can't even find a virgin to *marry*.hartsickdiscipl

It's a natural male desire to be with a woman who has never been with another man. For a guy (or a girl) to want a virgin is completely natural, as much for the emotional and mental purity, as it is for the physical.

I'd say anyone trying to make an argument for what's, "natural," is going to have a very hard time as it's extremely hard to seperate human actions from socialization, but if you really want to go that route then fine, many species in the animal kingdom valuefemales who have already produced and raised healthy offspring instinctually, so if you want to go on any argument of what's natural the reverse of what you said would be more likely to be true.

And to the people who say that people aren't "damaged goods" if they have too much non-committed sex.. IMO, you're just wrong. Maybe in denial or something.

To those who compare any part of this discussion to driving a car, or to anything else with statements like- "well i might get in an accident if I drive a car, so should I just not drive a car?".. Wake up. You have to drive a car to get to work, or use some other means of transport. You don't have to have sex before you're married. End of argument. In fact, you don't even HAVE to have sex to have a child anymore! But the act was created for this purpose, so let's use it for this purpose.. or at least NOT use it in situations where we know we won't be happy with the consequences if someone DOES get pregnant. I think using birth control as a way around abstinence is the equivalent of jumping through rings of fire because it FEELS good, wearing a rubber suit that MIGHT protect you from getting burned, but might not. If you wanted to avoid the risk, don't jump through the fire idiot.

hartsickdiscipl

• OK, then I can just say IMO you're wrong, where does that get either of us? You hvae a subjective view and you think that view is universally applicable. It's not, you have no evidence supporting that claim, end of discussion.
• You don't HAVE to have a job, you can choose to do nothing. You don't HAVE to drive, you can walk or take public transportation. Why take a car? Because it provides benefits that certain people enjoy over the benefits of walking or public transportation, even if it comes with increased risk. Having pre-marital sex provides benefits that certain people feel are more beneficial than the benefits of remaining abstinent, other people feel differently, so what's the point of getting wrapped up in other people's personal decisions?
• The act was not created, it is an evolutionary mutation of procreation that only exists because the creatures it manifested itself in were able to survive in their given environments. Besides, how we treat the act doesn't have much connection to what the act is, "intended," for. I'm drinking a soda right now and it tastes good, the act of drinking was not "intended" to stimulate my senses it was "intended" to hydrate me, but I drink to stimulate my senses anyways.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="ScorpionBeeBee"] What do you want a virgin for anyway? Is there some fantasy ideal that states your wife must not have had any other penis in her life or shes unworthy? Are you a virgin? This is strange the value that is placed on a a woman's hymen. Were you not "alpha" enough to have girls tripping over themselves to be with you and you are jealous? What is the real reason for this!? A virgin wife could one day wake up and find she wants to experience more of the worlds penises, so that is no guarantee that she would never leave you. Hell I bet she'd be more tempted to try other men down the line than if she wasn't a virgin.

ScorpionBeeBee

It's a natural male desire to be with a woman who has never been with another man. For a guy (or a girl) to want a virgin is completely natural, as much for the emotional and mental purity, as it is for the physical.

"Damaged goods" my butt. Yep everyone but you is getting it on and deep, deep, deep down its killing you! You are home on the weekends brooding over how much of a whore those girls are that won't like you back. Did I hit the nail on the head or what? I was once in your shoes, due to my heavy pentecostal upbringing. 4 years in the army and I got all the confidence I needed to be a hit with the ladies. Ugh I can't get over that damaged goods comment, that instantly exposed the lonely hater in you.

You hit nothing on the head. If you bothered to read the first post in this thread, you'd know that I'm not a virgin, and that I have had pre-marital sex. I'm a good-looking, generally attractive person who has become extremely disillusioned with the world that we live in for it's moral depravity. I have been on both sides of the fence, both as a child in a very religious family, and as a horny, unrestricted, out of control teenager and young adult. Having seen both sides, I think most people are DAMAGED GOODS as a result of our screwed-up society.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

It's a natural male desire to be with a woman who has never been with another man. For a guy (or a girl) to want a virgin is completely natural, as much for the emotional and mental purity, as it is for the physical.

markop2003

[QUOTE="ScorpionBeeBee"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

It's a natural male desire to be with a woman who has never been with another man. For a guy (or a girl) to want a virgin is completely natural, as much for the emotional and mental purity, as it is for the physical.

hartsickdiscipl

"Damaged goods" my butt. Yep everyone but you is getting it on and deep, deep, deep down its killing you! You are home on the weekends brooding over how much of a whore those girls are that won't like you back. Did I hit the nail on the head or what? I was once in your shoes, due to my heavy pentecostal upbringing. 4 years in the army and I got all the confidence I needed to be a hit with the ladies. Ugh I can't get over that damaged goods comment, that instantly exposed the lonely hater in you.

You hit nothing on the head. If you bothered to read the first post in this thread, you'd know that I'm not a virgin, and that I have had pre-marital sex. I'm a good-looking, generally attractive person who has become extremely disillusioned with the world that we live in for it's moral depravity. I have been on both sides of the fence, both as a child in a very religious family, and as a horny, unrestricted, out of control teenager and young adult. Having seen both sides, I think most people are DAMAGED GOODS as a result of our screwed-up society.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

And to the people who say that people aren't "damaged goods" if they have too much non-committed sex.. IMO, you're just wrong. Maybe in denial or something.

To those who compare any part of this discussion to driving a car, or to anything else with statements like- "well i might get in an accident if I drive a car, so should I just not drive a car?".. Wake up. You have to drive a car to get to work, or use some other means of transport. You don't have to have sex before you're married. End of argument. In fact, you don't even HAVE to have sex to have a child anymore! But the act was created for this purpose, so let's use it for this purpose.. or at least NOT use it in situations where we know we won't be happy with the consequences if someone DOES get pregnant. I think using birth control as a way around abstinence is the equivalent of jumping through rings of fire because it FEELS good, wearing a rubber suit that MIGHT protect you from getting burned, but might not. If you wanted to avoid the risk, don't jump through the fire idiot.

theone86

• OK, then I can just say IMO you're wrong, where does that get either of us? You hvae a subjective view and you think that view is universally applicable. It's not, you have no evidence supporting that claim, end of discussion.
• You don't HAVE to have a job, you can choose to do nothing. You don't HAVE to drive, you can walk or take public transportation. Why take a car? Because it provides benefits that certain people enjoy over the benefits of walking or public transportation, even if it comes with increased risk. Having pre-marital sex provides benefits that certain people feel are more beneficial than the benefits of remaining abstinent, other people feel differently, so what's the point of getting wrapped up in other people's personal decisions?
• The act was not created, it is an evolutionary mutation of procreation that only exists because the creatures it manifested itself in were able to survive in their given environments. Besides, how we treat the act doesn't have much connection to what the act is, "intended," for. I'm drinking a soda right now and it tastes good, the act of drinking was not "intended" to stimulate my senses it was "intended" to hydrate me, but I drink to stimulate my senses anyways.

Your viewpoints indicate that you put little to no value on sexual morality. That being said, I have a hard time respecting your views. Would you care to explain to me how I would go about getting food and other necessities in today's society without a job and a way to get there?

What benefits of pre-marital sex override the obvious negatives that have been repeatedly listed in this thread? List some. List some that are more important than those provided to us by waiting for the right person.

I believe that the act of sex WAS created by someone with a keen understanding of the creatures that he/she had made. That's why it is pleasurable. Have you ever wondered why something that was supposedly an "evolutionary mutation" to pro-create feels so good? What part of evolution theory can account for that? A man and woman could simply mate and get it over with.. but that's not how sex turned out.

The fact that people feel jealousy and a sense of discomfort when they're faced with situations where they have to interact with an "EX" or someone with whom they've been intimate but are no longer is no accident. It's a natural human reaction, and I say it's because we were only intended to have 1 mate. This is not a learned behavior, this is inborn in humans. Obviously our world is far from perfect, and even someone with standards as stringent as my own cannot expect that many people are truly going to find the "right" person on the first go-around. The point is that we should be striving for this type of approach to sex, rather than disrespecting it the way we do now.

[QUOTE="markop2003"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

It's a natural male desire to be with a woman who has never been with another man. For a guy (or a girl) to want a virgin is completely natural, as much for the emotional and mental purity, as it is for the physical.

the_new_guy_92

Link

Do you really think that pleasure came out of the thin, blue sky? It was created by someone who had an understanding that his/her creations would ENJOY experiences, rather than just live them. You will never convince me that it is a coincidence that probably the most physically pleasureable and enjoyable act you can experience is also the act that creates new life.

[QUOTE="the_new_guy_92"][QUOTE="markop2003"] Incorrect, virginity is a concept created by society. There is no biological reason for any animal to be more atracted to a virgin than non-virgin.mattbbpl

Link

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"]Completely agreed. And thanks to Jocks having sex with like 10 different girls before they even reach 20, people like me can't even find a virgin to *marry*.ScorpionBeeBee

Ay quick question, what other mammals are monogamous? I'm wondering?the_new_guy_92

Link

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="ScorpionBeeBee"] Nope, I refute that its completely natural for a man to want to be with a virgin, least of all for reasons you stated. You have a problem with sex. You consider people that have had multiple partners "damaged goods." That says tons about where you are coming from, and I guarantee that its a lonely place. I'd say you are a virgin who has been so frustrated with his lack of intimacy that you have channeled that negative energy into a jealous loathing of all those men who get it so easily.

"Damaged goods" my butt. Yep everyone but you is getting it on and deep, deep, deep down its killing you! You are home on the weekends brooding over how much of a whore those girls are that won't like you back. Did I hit the nail on the head or what? I was once in your shoes, due to my heavy pentecostal upbringing. 4 years in the army and I got all the confidence I needed to be a hit with the ladies. Ugh I can't get over that damaged goods comment, that instantly exposed the lonely hater in you.

jimmyjammer69

You hit nothing on the head. If you bothered to read the first post in this thread, you'd know that I'm not a virgin, and that I have had pre-marital sex. I'm a good-looking, generally attractive person who has become extremely disillusioned with the world that we live in for it's moral depravity. I have been on both sides of the fence, both as a child in a very religious family, and as a horny, unrestricted, out of control teenager and young adult. Having seen both sides, I think most people are DAMAGED GOODS as a result of our screwed-up society.

As a person who has both acted on and resisted my own libido, I am in a position to make recommendations to other people. I can't enforce them, but I have the perspective to make the recommendations based on my own experiences, and the facts at hand regarding the way sex is used in today's world. Nobody has come into this thread and made a single valid argument about why pre-marital sex is beneficial to society, when compared to the negatives that it has created. That's because they can't! The reasons don't exist. I don't regret having been intimate with someone that I loved. I only regret that I hadn't made them show more commitment before I went for it. I took it very seriously, they obviously didn't. I feel they were very wrong for doing that. Because while I now KNOW what I'm looking for in another person, she (like most people) is still out looking for it. I don't think sex is supposed to be a trial and error process between someone and 10 other people.

Do you really think that pleasure came out of the thin, blue sky? It was created by someone who had an understanding that his/her creations would ENJOY experiences, rather than just live them. You will never convince me that it is a coincidence that probably the most physically pleasureable and enjoyable act you can experience is also the act that creates new life.

hartsickdiscipl

And on the 9th day, God created the orgasm.

I was under the impression humans were more intelligent then other mammals..apparently i'm wrong O_o..based on people wondering what other mammals are monogomous...also..animals have no moral values nor do they have the capacity to formulate a code of morality in regards to sexual activity...

I was under the impression humans were more intelligent then other mammals..apparently i'm wrong O_o..based on people wondering what other mammals are monogomous...also..animals have no moral values nor do they have the capacity to make moral opinions..

Xx_Hopeless_xX

BINGO. There are plenty of things that prove we are a unique species on this planet, and should treat ourselves as such. But you may be right.. maybe we aren't any more intelligent or discrimating than animals. Based on alot of what I'm seeing in the world, and in this thread, I think we may be digressing into a lower form of life.

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

I was under the impression humans were more intelligent then other mammals..apparently i'm wrong O_o..based on people wondering what other mammals are monogomous...also..animals have no moral values nor do they have the capacity to make moral opinions..

hartsickdiscipl

BINGO. There are plenty of things that prove we are a unique species on this planet, and should treat ourselves as such. But you may be right.. maybe we aren't any more intelligent or discrimating than animals. Based on alot of what I'm seeing in the world, and in this thread, I think we may be digressing into a lower form of life.

I know how you feel :P...

People lower themselves to the status of "other mammals" when it suits their purpose..or supports the point they are trying to make..

Also, if we are likening ouselves to animals...you could take a look at sparrows who only pick one partner for life..i guess going by others humans can't function higher then an animal with the brain the size of a walnut...

[QUOTE="jimmyjammer69"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

You hit nothing on the head. If you bothered to read the first post in this thread, you'd know that I'm not a virgin, and that I have had pre-marital sex. I'm a good-looking, generally attractive person who has become extremely disillusioned with the world that we live in for it's moral depravity. I have been on both sides of the fence, both as a child in a very religious family, and as a horny, unrestricted, out of control teenager and young adult. Having seen both sides, I think most people are DAMAGED GOODS as a result of our screwed-up society.

hartsickdiscipl

As a person who has both acted on and resisted my own libido, I am in a position to make recommendations to other people. I can't enforce them, but I have the perspective to make the recommendations based on my own experiences, and the facts at hand regarding the way sex is used in today's world. Nobody has come into this thread and made a single valid argument about why pre-marital sex is beneficial to society, when compared to the negatives that it has created. That's because they can't! The reasons don't exist. I don't regret having been intimate with someone that I loved. I only regret that I hadn't made them show more commitment before I went for it. I took it very seriously, they obviously didn't. I feel they were very wrong for doing that. Because while I now KNOW what I'm looking for in another person, she (like most people) is still out looking for it. I don't think sex is supposed to be a trial and error process between someone and 10 other people.

I was under the impression humans were more intelligent then other mammals..apparently i'm wrong O_o..based on people wondering what other mammals are monogomous...also..animals have no moral values nor do they have the capacity to formulate a code of morality in regards to sexual activity...

Xx_Hopeless_xX

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

I was under the impression humans were more intelligent then other mammals..apparently i'm wrong O_o..based on people wondering what other mammals are monogomous...also..animals have no moral values nor do they have the capacity to formulate a code of morality in regards to sexual activity...

the_new_guy_92

Woah, first..you are the one conforming to society and it's views on marriage..

Second..intelligence doesn't eliminate it..but it allows us to conquer it..

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

I was under the impression humans were more intelligent then other mammals..apparently i'm wrong O_o..based on people wondering what other mammals are monogomous...also..animals have no moral values nor do they have the capacity to make moral opinions..

Xx_Hopeless_xX

BINGO. There are plenty of things that prove we are a unique species on this planet, and should treat ourselves as such. But you may be right.. maybe we aren't any more intelligent or discrimating than animals. Based on alot of what I'm seeing in the world, and in this thread, I think we may be digressing into a lower form of life.

I know how you feel :P...

People lower themselves to the status of "other mammals" when it suits their purpose..or supports the point they are trying to make..

Also, if we are likening ouselves to animals...you could take a look at sparrows who only pick one partner for life..i guess going by others humans can't function higher then an animal with the brain the size of a walnut...

[QUOTE="the_new_guy_92"][QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

I was under the impression humans were more intelligent then other mammals..apparently i'm wrong O_o..based on people wondering what other mammals are monogomous...also..animals have no moral values nor do they have the capacity to formulate a code of morality in regards to sexual activity...

Xx_Hopeless_xX

Woah, first..you are the one conforming to society and it's views on marriage..

Second..intelligence doesn't eliminate it..but it allows us to conquer it..

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

BINGO. There are plenty of things that prove we are a unique species on this planet, and should treat ourselves as such. But you may be right.. maybe we aren't any more intelligent or discrimating than animals. Based on alot of what I'm seeing in the world, and in this thread, I think we may be digressing into a lower form of life.

the_new_guy_92

I know how you feel :P...

People lower themselves to the status of "other mammals" when it suits their purpose..or supports the point they are trying to make..

Also, if we are likening ouselves to animals...you could take a look at sparrows who only pick one partner for life..i guess going by others humans can't function higher then an animal with the brain the size of a walnut...

Oh really...is that why all animals have smaller brains then human beings?...

And oh they aren't good enough because they aren't mammals..or because they don't support your beliefs?...

They are animals just like mammals...

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

I was under the impression humans were more intelligent then other mammals..apparently i'm wrong O_o..based on people wondering what other mammals are monogomous...also..animals have no moral values nor do they have the capacity to formulate a code of morality in regards to sexual activity...

the_new_guy_92

It think it's hilarious that the Bible predicted the moral decline of mankind near the end of days when it was written thousands of years ago. And here we are.. with people still denying the obvious, just like always.

We WERE programmed to be monogamous. Societies throughout history have had examples of people that have multiple mates or spouses. Despite these examples, humans as a whole chose to be with 1 person at a time. That's not a coincidence.

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="the_new_guy_92"] Intelligence, doesn't eliminate basic human instinct. All modern society does is force people to downplay natural instinct in order to live by the social contract. You people are acting like humans were programmed to be monogamous, which obviously isn't the case.the_new_guy_92

Woah, first..you are the one conforming to society and it's views on marriage..

Second..intelligence doesn't eliminate it..but it allows us to conquer it..

Marriage and such is the basis of the thread...i assumed you were posting to add to the discussion of such...

And yes, apparently some people enjoy being no better then the animals they claim dominance over..

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="the_new_guy_92"] Intelligence, doesn't eliminate basic human instinct. All modern society does is force people to downplay natural instinct in order to live by the social contract. You people are acting like humans were programmed to be monogamous, which obviously isn't the case.the_new_guy_92

Woah, first..you are the one conforming to society and it's views on marriage..

Second..intelligence doesn't eliminate it..but it allows us to conquer it..

[QUOTE="the_new_guy_92"][QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

I was under the impression humans were more intelligent then other mammals..apparently i'm wrong O_o..based on people wondering what other mammals are monogomous...also..animals have no moral values nor do they have the capacity to formulate a code of morality in regards to sexual activity...

hartsickdiscipl

It think it's hilarious that the Bible predicted the moral decline of mankind near the end of days when it was written thousands of years ago. And here we are.. with people still denying the obvious, just like always.

We WERE programmed to be monogamous. Societies throughout history have had examples of people that have multiple mates or spouses. Despite these examples, humans as a whole chose to be with 1 person at a time. That's not a coincidence.

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="the_new_guy_92"] Intelligence, doesn't eliminate basic human instinct. All modern society does is force people to downplay natural instinct in order to live by the social contract. You people are acting like humans were programmed to be monogamous, which obviously isn't the case.the_new_guy_92

Woah, first..you are the one conforming to society and it's views on marriage..

Second..intelligence doesn't eliminate it..but it allows us to conquer it..

"Not all people want to defy basic instict." Well, good for them. We also have a natural "fight or flight" instinct. Does that mean we shouldn't use our intelligence to override that sometimes?

[QUOTE="the_new_guy_92"][QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

I was under the impression humans were more intelligent then other mammals..apparently i'm wrong O_o..based on people wondering what other mammals are monogomous...also..animals have no moral values nor do they have the capacity to formulate a code of morality in regards to sexual activity...

hartsickdiscipl

It think it's hilarious that the Bible predicted the moral decline of mankind near the end of days when it was written thousands of years ago. And here we are.. with people still denying the obvious, just like always.

We WERE programmed to be monogamous. Societies throughout history have had examples of people that have multiple mates or spouses. Despite these examples, humans as a whole chose to be with 1 person at a time. That's not a coincidence.

Also, if humans were programmed to be monogamous, adultery would rarely happen, premarital relationships would rarely happen. What you said made no sense.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="the_new_guy_92"] Intelligence, doesn't eliminate basic human instinct. All modern society does is force people to downplay natural instinct in order to live by the social contract. You people are acting like humans were programmed to be monogamous, which obviously isn't the case.clayron

It think it's hilarious that the Bible predicted the moral decline of mankind near the end of days when it was written thousands of years ago. And here we are.. with people still denying the obvious, just like always.

We WERE programmed to be monogamous. Societies throughout history have had examples of people that have multiple mates or spouses. Despite these examples, humans as a whole chose to be with 1 person at a time. That's not a coincidence.

Yeah, he would be ONE OF THE EXAMPLES I REFERRED TO IN MY POST. Yet in the end, mankind as a whole didn't end up living that way, taking many wives. Even down to this day, people will admit that their heart desires one true love, and one mate. They just don't want to wait for it, search for it, or be disciplined enough to honor it once they find it.

I foresee the 'Save Your Cherry' campaign launching soon.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="the_new_guy_92"] Intelligence, doesn't eliminate basic human instinct. All modern society does is force people to downplay natural instinct in order to live by the social contract. You people are acting like humans were programmed to be monogamous, which obviously isn't the case.the_new_guy_92

It think it's hilarious that the Bible predicted the moral decline of mankind near the end of days when it was written thousands of years ago. And here we are.. with people still denying the obvious, just like always.

We WERE programmed to be monogamous. Societies throughout history have had examples of people that have multiple mates or spouses. Despite these examples, humans as a whole chose to be with 1 person at a time. That's not a coincidence.

But still you're saying we are no better then an animal that has a "brain structure" inferior to our own..?

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="the_new_guy_92"] Intelligence, doesn't eliminate basic human instinct. All modern society does is force people to downplay natural instinct in order to live by the social contract. You people are acting like humans were programmed to be monogamous, which obviously isn't the case.the_new_guy_92

It think it's hilarious that the Bible predicted the moral decline of mankind near the end of days when it was written thousands of years ago. And here we are.. with people still denying the obvious, just like always.

We WERE programmed to be monogamous. Societies throughout history have had examples of people that have multiple mates or spouses. Despite these examples, humans as a whole chose to be with 1 person at a time. That's not a coincidence.

I'm not sure why you quoted me on that one, since I never made any argument about the size of the human brain. Our traits are what separate us from the rest of the animal kingdom. We are the only creature that, as a species, doesn't adapt to our environment- we CHANGE our environment to service us. We also have the power of reasoning, and (hopefully) a sense of morality. This makes us far different from the other species on this planet. The other poster was right when he/she said that "people seem to refer to humans as being just like any other animal only when it suits them." Just like all other arguments against morality that I've seen here.. Excuses and copouts. I understand that most of you want to run around, screwing like rabbits.. That doesn't make it the best thing for you, or for your society. Nobody likes discipline, I understand..

[QUOTE="the_new_guy_92"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

It think it's hilarious that the Bible predicted the moral decline of mankind near the end of days when it was written thousands of years ago. And here we are.. with people still denying the obvious, just like always.

We WERE programmed to be monogamous. Societies throughout history have had examples of people that have multiple mates or spouses. Despite these examples, humans as a whole chose to be with 1 person at a time. That's not a coincidence.

Xx_Hopeless_xX

But still you're saying we are no better then an animal that has a "brain structure" inferior to our own..?

Just curious, TC, are you morally opposed to masturbation too, and if so, why? I'm only asking to get a sense of how much of your view is grounded in religious doctrine.jimmyjammer69

No, I'm not morally opposed to masturbation Masturbation is, IMO, what is supposed to "hold us over" until we find the mate that's right. Anything in excess is, of course, detrimental.

Just curious, TC, are you morally opposed to masturbation too, and if so, why? I'm only asking to get a sense of how much of your view is grounded in religious doctrine.jimmyjammer69

Why am I getting an image of a kid or even worse an adult that has never been in a relationship when I think of the TC?

[QUOTE="clayron"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

It think it's hilarious that the Bible predicted the moral decline of mankind near the end of days when it was written thousands of years ago. And here we are.. with people still denying the obvious, just like always.

We WERE programmed to be monogamous. Societies throughout history have had examples of people that have multiple mates or spouses. Despite these examples, humans as a whole chose to be with 1 person at a time. That's not a coincidence.

hartsickdiscipl

Yeah, he would be ONE OF THE EXAMPLES I REFERRED TO IN MY POST. Yet in the end, mankind as a whole didn't end up living that way, taking many wives. Even down to this day, people will admit that their heart desires one true love, and one mate. They just don't want to wait for it, search for it, or be disciplined enough to honor it once they find it.

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="the_new_guy_92"] Second bio fail, all species of whales have bigger brains than humans; does that make them smarter than us? Dolphins brain size rivals humans? Does that make them as smart as us. Please don't talk on what you don't know; brain size has no affect on intelligence; brain structure does. I always end up arguing about facts when I debate conservatives.the_new_guy_92

But still you're saying we are no better then an animal that has a "brain structure" inferior to our own..?

"Let progress mean that just because we can do a thing, does not mean that we must do that thing." I love this quote.. It's from a movie, but it makes so much sense. Retraint and the power of choice is part of what makes us human. When we act out against the things that make us different from the rest of the animal kingdom, we take away what makes us human.