Mosque Topic #10232-It's Like Japan Building a Shrine Near Pearl Harbor!

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]do not expect any rational responses. reason being, they may hate you, but you are a bigot and a racist if you are not sensitive to their feelings. i cant believe someone would actually argue that the mosque is not a big deal. i am just....stumped.
sometimes i wish the US showed a little bit of spine like the French and the Swiss.
They said fundamental islam is not welcome and banned the burka and construction of minarets. problem solved. of course, we have mr. obama who would bow to the king, so dont expect any such thing to happen.airshocker

Just people being narrow-minded, as always. Nothing I'm not used to.

Nothing you say about the Air Force will ever insult me. I expect it from liberal civvies who don't have a clue about the military.

And as I've already pointed out, it is an issue. I've brought up reasonable questions that haven't been answered. You can bury your head in the sand if you want, the adults will ask the hard questions and not be afraid everytime we get called bigots. airshocker

Your questions was, "is it a wise move?" And to that I answer, "Yes, it is, because they are building it where they need it. It is also serving as a way to take a ruined, derelict Burlington Coat Factory and turn it into something beautiful"

And you failed to answer my question.

Your questions was, "is it a wise move?" And to that I answer, "Yes, it is, because they are building it where they need it. It is also serving as a way to take a ruined, derelict Burlington Coat Factory and turn it into something beautiful"

And you failed to answer my question.

Mousetaches

No it's not because the Air Force doesn't care what you think. Me calling the Park 51 developers jerks doesn't apply to all muslims. Only those who can't see the sensitivity issues inherent in building so close to Ground Zero.

Not the wisdom I was referring to. But if you want to be purposefully obtuse I have much better things to do. Good night.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

Simply because it really isn't a big deal. If that's where their community is, it makes all the sense in the world to build a community center there. It shouldn't offend other Americans and 9/11 victims, because (as I'm sure you'll agree) it wasn't Islam that attacked the towers, it was a pack of depraved lunatics who just happened to be Muslim.

airshocker

And you still ignore the questions that reasonable people are asking as if they're irrelevant. Maybe in your fantasy world they are, but in the real world they aren't. That's borderline criminal.

Keep in mind, that doesn't even take into consideration that building the mosque in that place is a jerk thing to do.

First off, what's borderline criminal? How does this relate to "the questions reasonable people are asking"? And what are these questions? Questions about the integrity of Imam Rauf or...?

I addressed the bolded part of the post in my first post, so I won't repeat it lest I be redundant.

No it's not because the Air Force doesn't care what you think. Me calling the Park 51 developers jerks doesn't apply to all muslims. Only those who can't see the sensitivity issues inherent in building so close to Ground Zero.

Not the wisdom I was referring to. But if you want to be purposefully obtuse I have much better things to do. Good night. airshocker

[QUOTE="airshocker"] Nothing you say about the Air Force will ever insult me. I expect it from liberal civvies who don't have a clue about the military.

And as I've already pointed out, it is an issue. I've brought up reasonable questions that haven't been answered. You can bury your head in the sand if you want, the adults will ask the hard questions and not be afraid everytime we get called bigots. Mousetaches

Your questions was, "is it a wise move?" And to that I answer, "Yes, it is, because they are building it where they need it. It is also serving as a way to take a ruined, derelict Burlington Coat Factory and turn it into something beautiful"

And you failed to answer my question.

[QUOTE="Mousetaches"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"] Nothing you say about the Air Force will ever insult me. I expect it from liberal civvies who don't have a clue about the military.

And as I've already pointed out, it is an issue. I've brought up reasonable questions that haven't been answered. You can bury your head in the sand if you want, the adults will ask the hard questions and not be afraid everytime we get called bigots. doom3lv

Your questions was, "is it a wise move?" And to that I answer, "Yes, it is, because they are building it where they need it. It is also serving as a way to take a ruined, derelict Burlington Coat Factory and turn it into something beautiful"

And you failed to answer my question.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="Mousetaches"]

Your questions was, "is it a wise move?" And to that I answer, "Yes, it is, because they are building it where they need it. It is also serving as a way to take a ruined, derelict Burlington Coat Factory and turn it into something beautiful"

And you failed to answer my question.

jaydough

survivors of 9/11 associate islam with the act. doom3lv

I don't think that's it.

And I hope there aren't any GOP HQs in Oklahoma City, because Timothy McVeigh was a Republican, so obviously its the GOP's fault.

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] I saw its better to have a derelict building than a mosque. reason being, survivors of 9/11 associate islam with the act.
which is not very far fetched considering the man who was behind it said he was on a mission of jihad.
even if we dont take the man's words, take into consideration the acts of American naturalized citizens of islam, the guy who tried to bomb the car in NYC, the guy in miami florida who conspired against the US because there is morality in this society and that women wear short cothes.
where are all these people coming from? is islam behind this? no islam is not behind this, but these people are drawing their inspiration from somewhere.
so having a mosque at 9/11 will truly insult all the people who suffered as a result of the acts of muslims who claimed they were acting in the good faith of islam. doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] survivors of 9/11 associate islam with the act. Mousetaches

I don't think that's it.

And I hope there aren't any GOP HQs in Oklahoma City, because Timothy McVeigh was a Republican, so obviously its the GOP's fault.

ANY violent christian is explicitly going against the teaching of jesus christ. doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]
ANY violent christian is explicitly going against the teaching of jesus christ. jaydough

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]
ANY violent christian is explicitly going against the teaching of jesus christ. doom3lv

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] I saw its better to have a derelict building than a mosque. reason being, survivors of 9/11 associate islam with the act.
which is not very far fetched considering the man who was behind it said he was on a mission of jihad.
even if we dont take the man's words, take into consideration the acts of American naturalized citizens of islam, the guy who tried to bomb the car in NYC, the guy in miami florida who conspired against the US because there is morality in this society and that women wear short cothes.
where are all these people coming from? is islam behind this? no islam is not behind this, but these people are drawing their inspiration from somewhere.
so having a mosque at 9/11 will truly insult all the people who suffered as a result of the acts of muslims who claimed they were acting in the good faith of islam. doom3lv

You realize there were quite a few Muslim Americans who died in the towers? If they held a service honoring the people who died that day, and there were Muslim elements (in addition to Christian and Jewish elements) to that service (seeing as Muslims died on that day) would that also be offensive?

It was not Islam that killed all those people on 9/11, it was a group of radical madmen who had a radical, insane interpretation of Islam. Ordinary, law abiding Muslim Americans should not have to face the distrust and hatred that these radical terrorists should. This community center does not represent that radical interpretation of Islam - if it did, you would have every reason to criticize it.

This treatment of our fellow Americans needs to stop before it's too late.

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]
ANY violent christian is explicitly going against the teaching of jesus christ. doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="jaydough"] , most violence commited by God himself.

Mousetaches

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="jaydough"] Some muslims are violent, therefore things that are muslim are insulting?

SgtKevali

You realize there were quite a few Muslim Americans who died in the towers? If they held a service honoring the people who died that day, and there were Muslim elements (in addition to Christian and Jewish elements) to that service (seeing as Muslims died on that day) would that also be offensive?

It was not Islam that killed all those people on 9/11, it was a group of radical madmen who had a radical, insane interpretation of Islam. Ordinary, law abiding Muslim Americans should not have to face the distrust and hatred that these radical terrorists should. This community center does not represent that radical interpretation of Islam - if it did, you would have every reason to criticize it.

This treatment of our fellow Americans needs to stop before it's too late.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]at ground zero, yeah. to me they are. doom3lv

You realize there were quite a few Muslim Americans who died in the towers? If they held a service honoring the people who died that day, and there were Muslim elements (in addition to Christian and Jewish elements) to that service (seeing as Muslims died on that day) would that also be offensive?

It was not Islam that killed all those people on 9/11, it was a group of radical madmen who had a radical, insane interpretation of Islam. Ordinary, law abiding Muslim Americans should not have to face the distrust and hatred that these radical terrorists should. This community center does not represent that radical interpretation of Islam - if it did, you would have every reason to criticize it.

This treatment of our fellow Americans needs to stop before it's too late.

But like I said, that has nothing to do with this specific community center.

It makes sense to oppose the spread of Radical Islam, as long as you don't oppose and ostracize the ordinary Muslims and Muslim Americans at the same time.

I don't get it. All of you people who keep calling the opposition bigots know full well why reasonable people are against it, so why do you try and spin it as if it's not a big deal?

airshocker

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]What are the questions that people are asking, and why is building a mosque a jerk thing to do? airshocker

Building the mosque in a place where we were attacked by extremist Muslims is a jerk thing to do. Sure, they have the right to build it there, but is it a wise thing to do? It's like some guy hitting on your wife. Sure, he has the right to do it, but is it a nice thing to do? Absolutely not.

I want to know which countries are funding it. I also want the Iman in charge to denounce Hamas as a terrorist organization. Mediator or not, you shouldn't be burying your head in the sand when it comes to topics like that.

I say its better to have a derelict building than a mosque. reason being, survivors of 9/11 associate islam with the act. doom3lv

If that's the case, then they ARE bigots, and their bigotted criticisms should be ignored as being worthless.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

You realize there were quite a few Muslim Americans who died in the towers? If they held a service honoring the people who died that day, and there were Muslim elements (in addition to Christian and Jewish elements) to that service (seeing as Muslims died on that day) would that also be offensive?

It was not Islam that killed all those people on 9/11, it was a group of radical madmen who had a radical, insane interpretation of Islam. Ordinary, law abiding Muslim Americans should not have to face the distrust and hatred that these radical terrorists should. This community center does not represent that radical interpretation of Islam - if it did, you would have every reason to criticize it.

This treatment of our fellow Americans needs to stop before it's too late.

SgtKevali

But like I said, that has nothing to do with this specific community center.

It makes sense to oppose the spread of Radical Islam, as long as you don't oppose and ostracize the ordinary Muslims and Muslim Americans at the same time.

how does one tell the difference between radical islam and regular islam? doom3lv

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]What are the questions that people are asking, and why is building a mosque a jerk thing to do? airshocker

Building the mosque in a place where we were attacked by extremist Muslims is a jerk thing to do. Sure, they have the right to build it there, but is it a wise thing to do? It's like some guy hitting on your wife. Sure, he has the right to do it, but is it a nice thing to do? Absolutely not.

I want to know which countries are funding it. I also want the Iman in charge to denounce Hamas as a terrorist organization. Mediator or not, you shouldn't be burying your head in the sand when it comes to topics like that.

Christianity upholds men as superior to women.

you know, as americans, its time we asked those questions. given the reality of the situation, i see nothing wrong in asking these questions to make sure that someone practicing their religion does not make it bad for everyone else. doom3lv

Should we ask these questions to ONLY Muslims?

Or would you also be fine with no new Christian churches opening up until they can show that they haven't gotten any of their money from radical sources?

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]how does one tell the difference between radical islam and regular islam? jaydough

Christianity upholds men as superior to women.

hakanakumono

[QUOTE="bigdcstile"][QUOTE="airshocker"]

Building the mosque in a place where we were attacked by extremist Muslims is a jerk thing to do. Sure, they have the right to build it there, but is it a wise thing to do? It's like some guy hitting on your wife. Sure, he has the right to do it, but is it a nice thing to do? Absolutely not.

I want to know which countries are funding it. I also want the Iman in charge to denounce Hamas as a terrorist organization. Mediator or not, you shouldn't be burying your head in the sand when it comes to topics like that.

doom3lv

Yes. And, as stated, there's no obligation for them to answer any question asked by the American people. You or I are not entitled to an answer.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]you know, as americans, its time we asked those questions. given the reality of the situation, i see nothing wrong in asking these questions to make sure that someone practicing their religion does not make it bad for everyone else. MrGeezer

Should we ask these questions to ONLY Muslims?

Or would you also be fine with no new Christian churches opening up until they can show that they haven't gotten any of their money from radical sources?

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]how does one tell the difference between radical islam and regular islam? doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="jaydough"] How does one tell the difference between radical christianity and regular christianity?

jaydough

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]how does one tell the difference between radical islam and regular islam? doom3lv

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]how does one tell the difference between radical islam and regular islam? doom3lv

lmfao

Last I heard, the WBC pretty much ISN'T committing crimes. They've got a lot of lawyers with them, they make sure that their activities are not criminal. So...how do you use the WBC's "crimes against humanity" as a standard for separating that radical group from the mainstream? The mainstream isn't commiting crimes, neither is the WBC. So...you didn't even answer the question.

And again, if you've admitted that criminal activity is the standard for separating mainstream christianity from radical christianity, then how does that exact same thing not apply to Islam? If separating mainstream christianity from radical christianity is done by identifying which christian groups are commiting criminal activities, then the exact same thing should apply with regards to Islam.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="jaydough"] How does one tell the difference between radical christianity and regular christianity?

bigdcstile

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Christianity upholds men as superior to women.

doom3lv

It would be if there were people selectively trying to deny MUSLIMS a place to worship.

Yes...if the argument is that Islam should be opposed because it's just such a horrible religion, then it is ABSOLUTELY valid to point out similar problems that exist in modern Christianity. That means that the problems are not EXCLUSIVE to Islam, and that Islam should be granted the same respect and tolerance as Christianity.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="jaydough"] How does one tell the difference between radical christianity and regular christianity?

MrGeezer

lmfao

Last I heard, the WBC pretty much ISN'T committing crimes. They've got a lot of lawyers with them, they make sure that their activities are not criminal. So...how do you use the WBC's "crimes against humanity" as a standard for separating that radical group from the mainstream? The mainstream isn't commiting crimes, neither is the WBC. So...you didn't even answer the question.

And again, if you've admitted that criminal activity is the standard for separating mainstream christianity from radical christianity, then how does that exact same thing not apply to Islam? If separating mainstream christianity from radical christianity is done by identifying which christian groups are commiting criminal activities, then the exact same thing should apply with regards to Islam.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Christianity upholds men as superior to women.

MrGeezer

It would be if there were people selectively trying to deny MUSLIMS a place to worship.

Yes...if the argument is that Islam should be opposed because it's just such a horrible religion, then it is ABSOLUTELY valid to point out similar problems that exist in modern Christianity. That means that the problems are not EXCLUSIVE to Islam, and that Islam should be granted the same respect and tolerance as Christianity.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] simple the radical christians are idiots like WBC. whose worst crimes against humanity include behaving like total idiots at funerals, being anti-gay and basically being an overall ignorant deluded a****le
so how do you tell the difference between radical islam and regular islam?doom3lv

lmfao

Last I heard, the WBC pretty much ISN'T committing crimes. They've got a lot of lawyers with them, they make sure that their activities are not criminal. So...how do you use the WBC's "crimes against humanity" as a standard for separating that radical group from the mainstream? The mainstream isn't commiting crimes, neither is the WBC. So...you didn't even answer the question.

And again, if you've admitted that criminal activity is the standard for separating mainstream christianity from radical christianity, then how does that exact same thing not apply to Islam? If separating mainstream christianity from radical christianity is done by identifying which christian groups are commiting criminal activities, then the exact same thing should apply with regards to Islam.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Christianity upholds men as superior to women.

doom3lv

I don't know if either religion makes it "okay to be a terrorist," but I know that in the Bible you can find some pretty nasty things. In the old testament, it does advocate (actually, commands) the stoning of people who don't fall under the same religion, etc. So I wouldn't be surprised that some verses in Islam can be used to advocate terrorism as well (as well as one clearly condemning it).

The point is that Christians are capable of being peaceful, productive, caring, well meaning citizens of the United States. Guess what, Muslims are too. America needs Mosques from these kinds of people, not Islamophobia that can give rise to the kind of persecuation complexes that have a much greater chance of giving rise to terrorism than a community center on top of a derelict blurington coat factory.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]so your answer to any question about islam is to turn around and say "christianity does it too!". so if christianity made it ok to be a terrorist, would be ok for islam to preach the same?doom3lv

It would be if there were people selectively trying to deny MUSLIMS a place to worship.

Yes...if the argument is that Islam should be opposed because it's just such a horrible religion, then it is ABSOLUTELY valid to point out similar problems that exist in modern Christianity. That means that the problems are not EXCLUSIVE to Islam, and that Islam should be granted the same respect and tolerance as Christianity.

So what?You think every muslim on the planet knows about every verse in the quran.Not each and every muslim is a religious fanatic.

what i am trying to say is Christian radicals are just stupid, annoying and dumb idiots.
muslim radicals on the other hand have proven rather sinister lets saydoom3lv

Christian radicals have and will continue to murder and terrorize people.

And...I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Ku Klux Klan by now.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]what i am trying to say is Christian radicals are just stupid, annoying and dumb idiots.
muslim radicals on the other hand have proven rather sinister lets sayMrGeezer

Christian radicals have and will continue to murder and terrorize people.

And...I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Ku Klux Klan by now.

Thats a good example to show terrorism has no religion.

[QUOTE="SgtKevali"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]very true. i agree with this point.
but my concern about the koran and some people who practice it remains.
why is it that in religious socities like iran and indonesia, it is OK to stone people to death? they say that they are following the islamic law. and if so, then shouldn't i be concerned about the spread of that culture in this country?doom3lv

But like I said, that has nothing to do with this specific community center.

It makes sense to oppose the spread of Radical Islam, as long as you don't oppose and ostracize the ordinary Muslims and Muslim Americans at the same time.

You can tell the difference between radical Muslims and normal Muslims the same way you do with radical Christians and normal Christians.

Thats a good example to show terrorism has no religion.

conistant

Was the KKK a Christian sect? No. But the KKK has historically had a very strong tendency to describe itself as a Christian organization. Specifically Protestant, with a strong dislike for Catholicism. Hell...that's one of the ways in which the KKK became so widespread. By using Christian churches as a recruiting tool.