Mosque Topic #10232-It's Like Japan Building a Shrine Near Pearl Harbor!

[QUOTE="bruinfan617"][QUOTE="rowzzr"]

the muslims want to build a mosque near ground zero. fine by many americans. IF the catholics ever wanted to build a church near mecca. not fine by the muslims.

doom3lv

haters gonna hate

the muslims want to build a mosque near ground zero. fine by many americans. IF the catholics ever wanted to build a church near mecca. not fine by the muslims.

rowzzr

Quick! Let's answer hate with hate.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]so your answer to any question about islam is to turn around and say "christianity does it too!". so if christianity made it ok to be a terrorist, would be ok for islam to preach the same?doom3lv

I don't know if either religion makes it "okay to be a terrorist," but I know that in the Bible you can find some pretty nasty things. In the old testament, it does advocate (actually, commands) the stoning of people who don't fall under the same religion, etc. So I wouldn't be surprised that some verses in Islam can be used to advocate terrorism as well (as well as one clearly condemning it).

The point is that Christians are capable of being peaceful, productive, caring, well meaning citizens of the United States. Guess what, Muslims are too. America needs Mosques from these kinds of people, not Islamophobia that can give rise to the kind of persecuation complexes that have a much greater chance of giving rise to terrorism than a community center on top of a derelict blurington coat factory.

Ha, way to strawman my argument. I never said you were a bigot if you didn't love Islam, I said you were a bigot if you didn't respect Islam and argued for the cultural superiority of Christianity.

Yes, I can say that about Muslims. I seriously wonder where this country would be without Muslims, they make up a large percentage of the cabbie force in major cities, what if there were no cabs tomorrow? They're also very prominent in education and the intellectual community, I think this country would be worse off in that regard for not having them. Using an argument I've typically heard defending Christianity, they're very charitable people. Perhaps ht emost important thing, though, is that they represent a unique culture that has been isolated from American culture and serve as a connection to that culture here in America. We are a richer culture for having them here in America, so yes if it wasn't for them America wouldn't be what it is today.

If you actually look at the news there's a greater likelihood of reading about anon-Muslim citizen commiting a violent crime than a Muslim. Most Muslims who commit acts of terror aren't naturalized citizens, and those that are represent a minority.

They integrate better?
So an occasional case of domestic violence is OK. An occasional NYC car bombing is OK. Is that what you are saying?
Take a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_domestic_violence
"These ideas are justified with reference to the Qur'an, especially An-Nisa, 34, which discusses forms of beating in certain circumstances. The scholars allowing "beating" stress that it is a last resort, discountenanced, and must not be done to cause pain or injury"
The hipocricy of that statement speaks volumes about the mindset of pepole.
beating your wife is OK in self defense but must not be done to cause pain or injury??? What the hell!
why am i the only person sickened by this?doom3lv

The Bible has similar verses, quit acting like the Koran is alone in advocating violence.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I don't know if either religion makes it "okay to be a terrorist," but I know that in the Bible you can find some pretty nasty things. In the old testament, it does advocate (actually, commands) the stoning of people who don't fall under the same religion, etc. So I wouldn't be surprised that some verses in Islam can be used to advocate terrorism as well (as well as one clearly condemning it).

The point is that Christians are capable of being peaceful, productive, caring, well meaning citizens of the United States. Guess what, Muslims are too. America needs Mosques from these kinds of people, not Islamophobia that can give rise to the kind of persecuation complexes that have a much greater chance of giving rise to terrorism than a community center on top of a derelict blurington coat factory.

theone86

Ha, way to strawman my argument. I never said you were a bigot if you didn't love Islam, I said you were a bigot if you didn't respect Islam and argued for the cultural superiority of Christianity.

Yes, I can say that about Muslims. I seriously wonder where this country would be without Muslims, they make up a large percentage of the cabbie force in major cities, what if there were no cabs tomorrow? They're also very prominent in education and the intellectual community, I think this country would be worse off in that regard for not having them. Using an argument I've typically heard defending Christianity, they're very charitable people. Perhaps ht emost important thing, though, is that they represent a unique culture that has been isolated from American culture and serve as a connection to that culture here in America. We are a richer culture for having them here in America, so yes if it wasn't for them America wouldn't be what it is today.

If you actually look at the news there's a greater likelihood of reading about anon-Muslim citizen commiting a violent crime than a Muslim. Most Muslims who commit acts of terror aren't naturalized citizens, and those that are represent a minority.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]They integrate better?
So an occasional case of domestic violence is OK. An occasional NYC car bombing is OK. Is that what you are saying?
Take a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_domestic_violence
"These ideas are justified with reference to the Qur'an, especially An-Nisa, 34, which discusses forms of beating in certain circumstances. The scholars allowing "beating" stress that it is a last resort, discountenanced, and must not be done to cause pain or injury"
The hipocricy of that statement speaks volumes about the mindset of pepole.
beating your wife is OK in self defense but must not be done to cause pain or injury??? What the hell!
why am i the only person sickened by this?theone86

The Bible has similar verses, quit acting like the Koran is alone in advocating violence.

if you think the bible is dangerous, by all means say so. only problem is, the people who read the bible are peaceful people who do not believe in oppressing women irrespective of what the book says. if we did, there wouldn't be a women's liberation moment. last i heard, that sort of thing never happened in an islam nation. doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]if you think the bible is dangerous, by all means say so. only problem is, the people who read the bible are peaceful people who do not believe in oppressing women irrespective of what the book says. if we did, there wouldn't be a women's liberation moment. last i heard, that sort of thing never happened in an islam nation. jaydough

You know, this topic really needs to get banned in OT. It's getting really played out now.Shottayouth13-

Every bad about islam is a minority. Every good thing about islam is a majority.
never ever look at korna and ask, is there something inherently wrong with this book and the way its being taught. no. never ever do that because the book is moer important than people. doom3lv

ive read Quran, theres nothing wrong with it. haters gonna hate

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]if you think the bible is dangerous, by all means say so. only problem is, the people who read the bible are peaceful people who do not believe in oppressing women irrespective of what the book says. if we did, there wouldn't be a women's liberation moment. last i heard, that sort of thing never happened in an islam nation. doom3lv

You know, this topic really needs to get banned in OT. It's getting really played out now.Shottayouth13-

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]You know, this topic really needs to get banned in OT. It's getting really played out now.scorch-62

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="jaydough"] Why do you think there had to be a women's liberation movement in the first place?

jaydough

[QUOTE="scorch-62"][QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"] Same. And at least I get to **** with airshocker.

jaydough

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]You know, this topic really needs to get banned in OT. It's getting really played out now.doom3lv

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] the church oppressed the women. this goes to show that church is not above human rights. neither is the bible, neither is christianity
would you say that about islam? if you do, how do you explain sharia law?doom3lv

Shottayouth13-

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="jaydough"] The exact same thing that was happening with christianity.

jaydough

meh everything can be easily explained regarding quran and women

[QUOTE="Shottayouth13-"]jaydough

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="jaydough"] The exact same thing that was happening with christianity.

jaydough

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]They integrate better?
So an occasional case of domestic violence is OK. An occasional NYC car bombing is OK. Is that what you are saying?
Take a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_domestic_violence
"These ideas are justified with reference to the Qur'an, especially An-Nisa, 34, which discusses forms of beating in certain circumstances. The scholars allowing "beating" stress that it is a last resort, discountenanced, and must not be done to cause pain or injury"
The hipocricy of that statement speaks volumes about the mindset of pepole.
beating your wife is OK in self defense but must not be done to cause pain or injury??? What the hell!
why am i the only person sickened by this?doom3lv

The Bible has similar verses, quit acting like the Koran is alone in advocating violence.

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]what? that does not make any sense. doom3lv

To answer your question, Islam in the middle east hasn't been exposed to the western, secularized world, and as such has not had a very easy transition. Give it time.

What does any of this conversation have to do with the mosque?Mousetaches

Which is kind of like saying that Batman is better than the Flash.

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

To answer your question, Islam in the middle east hasn't been exposed to the western, secularized world, and as such has not had a very easy transition. Give it time.

sikanderahmed

real muslims will never turn secular no matter how much they are "exposed" to the western secular filth

[QUOTE="Mousetaches"]What does any of this conversation have to do with the mosque?jaydough

Which is kind of like saying that Batman is better than the Flash.

I am not saying. I am saying I don't want the mosque built there because of what islam stands for. doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="jaydough"] Way back when, christianity dominated common law. The bible dictated law and as such any of the commandments that god made were passed into law. This led to women being second cIass citizens and in some countries, property, seeing as .

sikanderahmed

why would muslims oppose islam? that has to be dumbest thing ive heard in a while.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]I am not saying. I am saying I don't want the mosque built there because of what islam stands for. jaydough

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]I am not saying. I am saying I don't want the mosque built there because of what islam stands for. doom3lv

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

To answer your question, Islam in the middle east hasn't been exposed to the western, secularized world, and as such has not had a very easy transition. Give it time.

jaydough

real muslims will never turn secular no matter how much they are "exposed" to the western secular filth

secularism is pretty much against islam and you cant be a good muslim if you are doing something that goes against islam

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

real muslims will never turn secular no matter how much they are "exposed" to the western secular filth

sikanderahmed

secularism is pretty much against islam and you cant be a good muslim if you are doing something that goes against islam

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

real muslims will never turn secular no matter how much they are "exposed" to the western secular filth

sikanderahmed

secularism is pretty much against islam and you cant be a good muslim if you are doing something that goes against islam

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] but christians have moved on since then. do you think the muslims have? christians today believe in equality of the sexes, and choice.
now again, before you start bashing christianity, remember, assuming you are in America, this country is great because of the acts of christians. not the muslims. the muslims enjoy the freedoms given to them by the brave christians who opposed the church.
again, when was the last time muslims opposed islam?doom3lv

why would muslims oppose islam? that has to be dumbest thing ive heard in a while.

if islam teaches people to turn against american values then they should do so. islam is not like todays christianity where you pick and choose things you want to believe. you simply can't be a muslim and oppose things in islam that you dont agree with. you either fully believe or you simply do not believe.

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="jaydough"] .

doom3lv

secularism is pretty much against islam and you cant be a good muslim if you are doing something that goes against islam

no problem

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

why would muslims oppose islam? that has to be dumbest thing ive heard in a while.

sikanderahmed

if islam teaches people to turn against american values then they should do so. islam is not like todays christianity where you pick and choose things you want to believe. you simply can't be a muslim and oppose things in islam that you dont agree with. you either fully believe or you simply do not believe.

oh my god...
did you just say its ok to oppose American values if they go against koran?
I am speechless. doom3lv

Not even once.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]oh my god...
did you just say its ok to oppose American values if they go against koran?
I am speechless. jaydough

Not even once.

[QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] what if the teachings of islam to turn people against the american values? would they then oppose islam? doom3lv

if islam teaches people to turn against american values then they should do so. islam is not like todays christianity where you pick and choose things you want to believe. you simply can't be a muslim and oppose things in islam that you dont agree with. you either fully believe or you simply do not believe.

religion is above everything and any true muslim would be against EVERYTHING that goes against Koran.

"A Shinto shrine is a structure whose main purpose is to house ("enshrine") one or more Shinto kami.[1] (Its most important building is used for the safekeeping of sacred objects, and not for worship)"

;)

Snipes_2

I guess you should have a word with everyone that used the analogy then.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="sikanderahmed"]

why would muslims oppose islam? that has to be dumbest thing ive heard in a while.

sikanderahmed

if islam teaches people to turn against american values then they should do so. islam is not like todays christianity where you pick and choose things you want to believe. you simply can't be a muslim and oppose things in islam that you dont agree with. you either fully believe or you simply do not believe.

In which case it gets irritating to see people bombard OT with No true scotsman fallacies while they are not true even for those they call "true believers".

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]oh my god...
did you just say its ok to oppose American values if they go against koran?
I am speechless. doom3lv

Not even once.