Mosque Topic #10232-It's Like Japan Building a Shrine Near Pearl Harbor!

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="jaydough"]No it's not. Have you been reading anything in this thread?theone86

You're saying that one man's views can represent the entirety of a religion, I'm sorry but that is bigotry incarnate. It's a piss poor argument, and given the context it's downright hate speech. It's also easily debunked, as there are Islamic nations (nations with an Islamic majority population) that allow for freedom of religion, and as there are a good number of Muslims globally who support freedom of religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_majority_countries

I agree. If you look at that list, under "religion and state" it says "secular" for A LOT of countries.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="jaydough"]No it's not. Have you been reading anything in this thread?theone86

You're saying that one man's views can represent the entirety of a religion, I'm sorry but that is bigotry incarnate. It's a piss poor argument, and given the context it's downright hate speech. It's also easily debunked, as there are Islamic nations (nations with an Islamic majority population) that allow for freedom of religion, and as there are a good number of Muslims globally who support freedom of religion.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] You seem to not like me, so you will never admit this.
But there was one guy who said who said a true muslim will never embrace secular western filth. would you admit he is wrong?doom3lv

You're saying that one man's views can represent the entirety of a religion, I'm sorry but that is bigotry incarnate. It's a piss poor argument, and given the context it's downright hate speech. It's also easily debunked, as there are Islamic nations (nations with an Islamic majority population) that allow for freedom of religion, and as there are a good number of Muslims globally who support freedom of religion.

As I recall, no one gave any mention of Indonesia or Malaysia. I would avoid giving specific examples and saying they represent the entirity of Muslim countries.

This thread is full of so many posts worthy of a "Not sure if serious." pic.

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]how does one tell the difference between radical islam and regular islam? doom3lv

So what are the christians who attack gays in the name of God and bomb abortion clinics?

Super radicals?

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Christianity upholds men as superior to women.

doom3lv

I'm like 98% sure you used this reasoning "They do it so it's okay for us to do it" in another thread in regards to stopping the building of mosques in America because Islamic countries don't allow churches.

there is really no reason to build the mosque there thats just ridiculouos

there is really no reason to build the mosque there thats just ridiculouos

MaddogQ80

[QUOTE="MaddogQ80"]

there is really no reason to build the mosque there thats just ridiculouos

Mousetaches

All I will say on the issue is that I find it kind of funny how we (as in westerners) have to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells whenever it comes to Islam in order to not offend any Muslims. However now that Muslims are doing something that is clearly offensive to a large number of people, they don't care, and people are called racist for being offended. Just seems like a stupid double standard to me, we can't say anything against Islam, but Islam can say anything against us.

All I will say on the issue is that I find it kind of funny how we (as in westerners) have to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells whenever it comes to Islam in order to not offend any Muslims. However now that Muslims are doing something that is clearly offensive to a large number of people, they don't care, and people are called racist for being offended. Just seems like a stupid double standard to me, we can't say anything against Islam, but Islam can say anything against us.

redstorm72

**** no! JAPAN IS NOT EVER BUILDING A MOSQUE NEAR PEARL HARBOR, but i wouldn't mind if a mosque was built at the twin towers site.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

All I will say on the issue is that I find it kind of funny how we (as in westerners) have to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells whenever it comes to Islam in order to not offend any Muslims. However now that Muslims are doing something that is clearly offensive to a large number of people, they don't care, and people are called racist for being offended. Just seems like a stupid double standard to me, we can't say anything against Islam, but Islam can say anything against us.

jaydough

meanwhile in other news...

Fire at Tennessee Mosque building site ruled arson

US groups denounce attack on Muslim taxi driver

All I will say on the issue is that I find it kind of funny how we (as in westerners) have to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells whenever it comes to Islam in order to not offend any Muslims. However now that Muslims are doing something that is clearly offensive to a large number of people, they don't care, and people are called racist for being offended. Just seems like a stupid double standard to me, we can't say anything against Islam, but Islam can say anything against us.

redstorm72

There are no laws passed to prevent you from being offensive toward Muslims.

It is part of the constitution that they be able to build it there as zoning codes allow it and they own the land.

Unless we wish to either place an asterisk by "freedom of religion" or remove it all together, there is nothing that can be done.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

All I will say on the issue is that I find it kind of funny how we (as in westerners) have to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells whenever it comes to Islam in order to not offend any Muslims. However now that Muslims are doing something that is clearly offensive to a large number of people, they don't care, and people are called racist for being offended. Just seems like a stupid double standard to me, we can't say anything against Islam, but Islam can say anything against us.

jaydough

Not true, if we were only not being dicks, Muslims would be treated like everyone else, but we have to act differently and change the rules just so as not to offend some Muslims.

For example, we cannot draw Muhammad even though he is an historical figure, many work places (including the government of Canada) allow Muslims to take breaks whenever they choose so they can pray but offer this consideration to no other group, etc. I just don't get why we have to be so afraid of offending this one group that we have to act differently and change things just to accommodate the vocal ones.

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

All I will say on the issue is that I find it kind of funny how we (as in westerners) have to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells whenever it comes to Islam in order to not offend any Muslims. However now that Muslims are doing something that is clearly offensive to a large number of people, they don't care, and people are called racist for being offended. Just seems like a stupid double standard to me, we can't say anything against Islam, but Islam can say anything against us.

SaudiFury

meanwhile in other news...

Fire at Tennessee Mosque building site ruled arson

US groups denounce attack on Muslim taxi driver

One good, one bad. No one scores a point. :P

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

All I will say on the issue is that I find it kind of funny how we (as in westerners) have to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells whenever it comes to Islam in order to not offend any Muslims. However now that Muslims are doing something that is clearly offensive to a large number of people, they don't care, and people are called racist for being offended. Just seems like a stupid double standard to me, we can't say anything against Islam, but Islam can say anything against us.

redstorm72

Not true, if we were only not being dicks, Muslims would be treated like everyone else, but we have to act differently and change the rules just so as not to offend some Muslims.

For example, we cannot draw Muhammad even though he is an historical figure, many work places (including the government of Canada) allow Muslims to take breaks whenever they choose so they can pray but offer this consideration to no other group, etc. I just don't get why we have to be so afraid of offending this one group that we have to act differently and change things just to accommodate the vocal ones.

That could be because Islam is the only religion with defined times for prayer every day.

All I will say on the issue is that I find it kind of funny how we (as in westerners) have to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells whenever it comes to Islam in order to not offend any Muslims. However now that Muslims are doing something that is clearly offensive to a large number of people, they don't care, and people are called racist for being offended. Just seems like a stupid double standard to me, we can't say anything against Islam, but Islam can say anything against us.

redstorm72

Can you enlighten me on some of the ways in which we have been forced to bend over backwards in order to not offend Muslims?

Also, you can't lump "us" all together "as westerners", since not all western countries conform to the same laws. Same way that not all eastern countries conform to the same laws.

Since this thread is about an issue in the USA, please enlighten me on any incidents of people in THE USA having to "bend over backwards" in order to "not offend any Muslims".

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

All I will say on the issue is that I find it kind of funny how we (as in westerners) have to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells whenever it comes to Islam in order to not offend any Muslims. However now that Muslims are doing something that is clearly offensive to a large number of people, they don't care, and people are called racist for being offended. Just seems like a stupid double standard to me, we can't say anything against Islam, but Islam can say anything against us.

redstorm72

Not true, if we were only not being dicks, Muslims would be treated like everyone else, but we have to act differently and change the rules just so as not to offend some Muslims.

For example, we cannot draw Muhammad even though he is an historical figure, many work places (including the government of Canada) allow Muslims to take breaks whenever they choose so they can pray but offer this consideration to no other group, etc. I just don't get why we have to be so afraid of offending this one group that we have to act differently and change things just to accommodate the vocal ones.

Last I heard, there's no set of "western laws" that all "western countries" have to abide by. What Canada does has nothing to do with what the USA does, what England does has nothing to do with what Spain does. Don't use Canada laws to talk about **** that is going on in the USA.

This thread is about a "mosque" being built in the USA. Don't talk to me about what Canada or France does, that **** doesn't apply. Tell me specifically how people in the USA have been forced to "bend over backwards" in order to "not offend Muslims".

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

All I will say on the issue is that I find it kind of funny how we (as in westerners) have to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells whenever it comes to Islam in order to not offend any Muslims. However now that Muslims are doing something that is clearly offensive to a large number of people, they don't care, and people are called racist for being offended. Just seems like a stupid double standard to me, we can't say anything against Islam, but Islam can say anything against us.

Pixel-Pirate

There are no laws passed to prevent you from being offensive toward Muslims.

It is part of the constitution that they be able to build it there as zoning codes allow it and they own the land.

Unless we wish to either place an asterisk by "freedom of religion" or remove it all together, there is nothing that can be done.

I have absolutely no problem with them building a mosque near ground zero. All I was saying was that for a group that gets so riled up when westerners do something they find offensive, they seem to have no problem being offensive themselves. I mean hell, extremists threatened to kill people over a south park depiction and a cartoon of Muhammmad, but now people are being called racist for taking offense to the building of a symbol of Islam down the street from where over 3000 people where killed due to extremists of that religion.

Again, I have nothing against the building of the actual mosque, it annoys me that we have this double standard on offensiveness.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

All I will say on the issue is that I find it kind of funny how we (as in westerners) have to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells whenever it comes to Islam in order to not offend any Muslims. However now that Muslims are doing something that is clearly offensive to a large number of people, they don't care, and people are called racist for being offended. Just seems like a stupid double standard to me, we can't say anything against Islam, but Islam can say anything against us.

redstorm72

There are no laws passed to prevent you from being offensive toward Muslims.

It is part of the constitution that they be able to build it there as zoning codes allow it and they own the land.

Unless we wish to either place an asterisk by "freedom of religion" or remove it all together, there is nothing that can be done.

I have absolutely no problem with them building a mosque near ground zero. All I was saying was that for a group that gets so riled up when westerners do something they find offensive, they seem to have no problem being offensive themselves. I mean hell, extremists threatened to kill people over a south park depiction and a cartoon of Muhammmad, but now people are being called racist for taking offense to the building of a symbol of Islam down the street from where over 3000 people where killed due to extremists of that religion.

Again, I have nothing against the building of the actual mosque, it annoys me that we have this double standard on offensiveness.

"extremists"

Remember that there are different types of Muslims.

Not true, if we were only not being dicks, Muslims would be treated like everyone else, but we have to act differently and change the rules just so as not to offend some Muslims.

For example, we cannot draw Muhammad even though he is an historical figure,

We can, and do.

many work places (including the government of Canada) allow Muslims to take breaks whenever they choose so they can pray but offer this consideration to no other group,

Muslims have defined times that they need to pray. If Christians had the same thing, their employers would let them.

etc.

etc.

I just don't get why we have to be so afraid of offending this one group that we have to act differently and change things just to accommodate the vocal ones.

redstorm72

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

Not true, if we were only not being dicks, Muslims would be treated like everyone else, but we have to act differently and change the rules just so as not to offend some Muslims.

For example, we cannot draw Muhammad even though he is an historical figure,

We can, and do.

Not without pissing off a ton of Muslims and possibly getting death threats. I'm using the reaction you would get from any other religion for drawing their holy figures (Jesus, Moses, Genish...) as bench mark here.

many work places (including the government of Canada) allow Muslims to take breaks whenever they choose so they can pray but offer this consideration to no other group,

Muslims have defined times that they need to pray. If Christians had the same thing, their employers would let them.

That's not the point. It doesn't matter what religion they are part of, nobody should be offered special considerations just because of their religion/race, that's discriminatory. If I start a religion that says I can only work 1 hour a day, I shouldn't expect anyone allow that at the work place.

etc.

etc.

etc.

I just don't get why we have to be so afraid of offending this one group that we have to act differently and change things just to accommodate the vocal ones.

jaydough

Basically one guy said it best in this thread Everything within the qu'ran is 1000% CORRECT to us muslim's theres no quetioning this as it is the word of Allah (god) and if i were to not follow bits of it i would be a sinner and not a true beleiver.

Now you as a christian beleive you can pick and choose what you beleive in and that you can place your "American ideals" above that of christianity which means your not a true christian.

Now instead of getting freaked out through quotes on the internet it woud surely be better to read the Qu'ran in its full context which would be to read it fully and then explain what was the overall expression you had gotten from it.

[QUOTE="jaydough"]

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

All I will say on the issue is that I find it kind of funny how we (as in westerners) have to bend over backwards and walk on eggshells whenever it comes to Islam in order to not offend any Muslims. However now that Muslims are doing something that is clearly offensive to a large number of people, they don't care, and people are called racist for being offended. Just seems like a stupid double standard to me, we can't say anything against Islam, but Islam can say anything against us.

redstorm72

Not true, if we were only not being dicks, Muslims would be treated like everyone else, but we have to act differently and change the rules just so as not to offend some Muslims.

For example, we cannot draw Muhammad even though he is an historical figure, many work places (including the government of Canada) allow Muslims to take breaks whenever they choose so they can pray but offer this consideration to no other group, etc. I just don't get why we have to be so afraid of offending this one group that we have to act differently and change things just to accommodate the vocal ones.

Go ahead and draw Muhammad.

Again no law exists preventing it. If you won't do it, it isn't muslims stopping you. It's yourself.

Well that's how the world sees it. It's a gross double standard. Americans are acting like 9/11 was the only time in human history where human beings have died.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="jaydough"] We're not bending over backwards, we're just not being dicks.

Pixel-Pirate

Not true, if we were only not being dicks, Muslims would be treated like everyone else, but we have to act differently and change the rules just so as not to offend some Muslims.

For example, we cannot draw Muhammad even though he is an historical figure, many work places (including the government of Canada) allow Muslims to take breaks whenever they choose so they can pray but offer this consideration to no other group, etc. I just don't get why we have to be so afraid of offending this one group that we have to act differently and change things just to accommodate the vocal ones.

Go ahead and draw Muhammad.

Again no law exists preventing it. If you won't do it, it isn't muslims stopping you. It's yourself.

We ourselves do not condone the drawings of any prophet INCLUDING Jesus (Isah p.b.u.h.)

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

Not true, if we were only not being dicks, Muslims would be treated like everyone else, but we have to act differently and change the rules just so as not to offend some Muslims.

For example, we cannot draw Muhammad even though he is an historical figure, many work places (including the government of Canada) allow Muslims to take breaks whenever they choose so they can pray but offer this consideration to no other group, etc. I just don't get why we have to be so afraid of offending this one group that we have to act differently and change things just to accommodate the vocal ones.

Super_Toad_64

Go ahead and draw Muhammad.

Again no law exists preventing it. If you won't do it, it isn't muslims stopping you. It's yourself.

We ourselves do not condone the drawings of any prophet INCLUDING Jesus (Isah p.b.u.h.)

Really? I thought it was only Muhammad the followers of Islam could not draw, so they would not worship him as a God (or something along those lines). I didn't realize this also applied to other prophets.

The more you know eh.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

Not true, if we were only not being dicks, Muslims would be treated like everyone else, but we have to act differently and change the rules just so as not to offend some Muslims.

For example, we cannot draw Muhammad even though he is an historical figure, many work places (including the government of Canada) allow Muslims to take breaks whenever they choose so they can pray but offer this consideration to no other group, etc. I just don't get why we have to be so afraid of offending this one group that we have to act differently and change things just to accommodate the vocal ones.

Super_Toad_64

Go ahead and draw Muhammad.

Again no law exists preventing it. If you won't do it, it isn't muslims stopping you. It's yourself.

We ourselves do not condone the drawings of any prophet INCLUDING Jesus (Isah p.b.u.h.)

According to the Bible, neither should Christians:
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I The Lord thy God am a jealous God," Exodus 20:4-6 KJV

Christians are pretty much committing a sin when they draw pictures and make statues of Jesus (peace be upon him).

Which, mind you, is pretty much all the time.

[QUOTE="Super_Toad_64"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Go ahead and draw Muhammad.

Again no law exists preventing it. If you won't do it, it isn't muslims stopping you. It's yourself.

redstorm72

We ourselves do not condone the drawings of any prophet INCLUDING Jesus (Isah p.b.u.h.)

Really? I thought it was only Muhammad the followers of Islam could not draw, so they would not worship him as a God (or something along those lines). I didn't realize this also applied to other prophets.

The more you know eh.

Yep, its exactly for those reasons and it applies to all prophets :)

Except everyone else shouldn't have the same rights as muslims.
The unfortunate thing about America is the founding fathers did not anticipate the threat that a religion can cause to a society.
America will never show the same kind of spine that Western Europe is showing. France is banning the burka, Swiss is banning building of minarets, America on the other hand is letting people exploit the loophole in our system to turn against us. That's fantastic. doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]Except everyone else shouldn't have the same rights as muslims.
The unfortunate thing about America is the founding fathers did not anticipate the threat that a religion can cause to a society.
America will never show the same kind of spine that Western Europe is showing. France is banning the burka, Swiss is banning building of minarets, America on the other hand is letting people exploit the loophole in our system to turn against us. That's fantastic. Super_Toad_64

[QUOTE="Super_Toad_64"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]Except everyone else shouldn't have the same rights as muslims.
The unfortunate thing about America is the founding fathers did not anticipate the threat that a religion can cause to a society.
America will never show the same kind of spine that Western Europe is showing. France is banning the burka, Swiss is banning building of minarets, America on the other hand is letting people exploit the loophole in our system to turn against us. That's fantastic. doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="Super_Toad_64"] Exactly what do they acheive out of banning burka's and minarets?

Sajo7

Those are the symbols represent their culture. So banning those symbols sends a message.
We need to regulate it the same way we censor other mediums when they are deemed harmful.
There are several clauses to second amendment. We have the right to bear arms, but its not as easy as that. The same should be said about religion.
Yes, regulate Christianity if you must, I don't care, but the spread of islam in America should not go unchecked. That is my opinion. doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] Those are the symbols represent their culture. So banning those symbols sends a message.
We need to regulate it the same way we censor other mediums when they are deemed harmful.
There are several clauses to second amendment. We have the right to bear arms, but its not as easy as that. The same should be said about religion.
Yes, regulate Christianity if you must, I don't care, but the spread of islam in America should not go unchecked. That is my opinion. Sajo7

[QUOTE="Sajo7"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] Those are the symbols represent their culture. So banning those symbols sends a message.
We need to regulate it the same way we censor other mediums when they are deemed harmful.
There are several clauses to second amendment. We have the right to bear arms, but its not as easy as that. The same should be said about religion.
Yes, regulate Christianity if you must, I don't care, but the spread of islam in America should not go unchecked. That is my opinion. doom3lv

Man, so many messages to send.

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="Sajo7"] I'm going to regret asking this but what is so threatening about religion in a secular state?

Sajo7

Man, so many messages to send.

(a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want. (b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates. (c) Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us. (d) The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women in the American Forces which attack us. (e) This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us. . . . (Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you? (1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam. (a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions, orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.

At the very least think about it. doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"]At the very least think about it. Sajo7

[QUOTE="Sajo7"][QUOTE="doom3lv"]At the very least think about it. doom3lv

[QUOTE="doom3lv"][QUOTE="Sajo7"] Think about restricting the constitutional rights of American citizens? No.Ninja-Hippo

And what is your suggestion? Grant citizenship to everyone who comes looking for it because otherwise its not progressive? I am not saying people should take IQ tests. I am saying be selective about who you are giving these rights to. Turst me, the rights Americans enjoy are not god given. A lot of people worked their entire life to make sure we have those rights.

Treat that with respect.

The only real argument anybody can make against this mosque is that due tothe events9-11 it makes them uncomfortable. I understand that sentiment.

HoweverI am uncomfortable about the fact people are allowed to carry aroundguns wherever they want, but just like the mosque it's protected by the constitution. It's one of those things I just have to live with.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]

[QUOTE="doom3lv"] Think about who we grant citizenship to in the first place, at least? I mean its all very nice on paper when we say anyone in this world can be an American, but we need to seriously think about the kind of people who are looking to become American citizens.
Norway, Switzerland, Netherlands are very selective about who they grant their citizenship to. America is not.
A day will come when America will not have an identity. I don't think America has an identity today, because taking pride in your country somehow is racist. Its so cool to bash America at every turn.
This is a bit of tanget, but the bottomline is, be selective about who is being given the rights. I am sure it wouldn't be a violation of the constitution if people from certain countries were screened a little more before given the citizenship. doom3lv

And what is your suggestion? Grant citizenship to everyone who comes looking for it because otherwise its not progressive? I am not saying people should take IQ tests. I am saying be selective about who you are giving these rights to. Turst me, the rights Americans enjoy are not god given. A lot of people worked their entire life to make sure we have those rights.

Treat that with respect.

"selective" as in dont give it to muslims because you beleive their suspicious characters with a hidden agenda to cause mass damage to america's weak points?