Muslim Woman poses for Playboy, Receives Death Threats

Um, dude, they killed van Gogh

YellowOneKinobi

My bad, i withdraw my statement.

No I don't think that, Fred Phelps doesn't speak for the Christians who go to Church down the block for me (whom I find almost as idiotic) than this ignorant Muslim talking about killing this woman speaks for the rest of Islam. If you really think that all organized religion is just a bunch of idiots and bigots then why don't you come out and say it. My problem is less that you hold that opinion and more that your rhetoric empowers religious bigots who only want to establish Christianity as superior. Just come out and talk down about religion in general instead of Islam or Christianity seperately, I guarantee you have fewer simple-minded supporters praising you because your opinion supports their prejudice.

theone86

[QUOTE="m25105"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

:lol: just :lol:

I know death threats aren't funny, but it's like they just realized there are slutty women in this world.

YellowOneKinobi

I don't think you understand how common honour killing is. The fact that she's the first Turkish woman to pose nude on a public magazine like Playboy is a pretty big deal.

Stuff like this rarely happens, but when it does it's common that honour killing happens.

Take 1000 Muslim families. Of those 1000, only about 5 will have a family member bringing dishonour (like in this case) 3 maybe 4 out of the 5 will cast the member out or even kill her/him. So, yeah it's common when it happens, but it doesn't happen often.

Hey I like the look of those :D. Anyway in all fairness when you move to a foreign country you have to put up with their customs, well this sort of thing is one of ours I guess.

[QUOTE="Zyrokin"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Sherlock, less than a century ago wife beating was legal in the west and the common view was that women belonged in the house doing womanly work. It's easy for you to just sit there and say, "common sense, hurr hurrr," but that common sense has evolved over centuries to what it is now. What we're seeing now is Muslim society coping with radical social change the way that Christian society also coped with radical social change, and it took us well over a century to fully adjust as well, so decrying Muslim society because their common sense is different than ours is what I find ridiculously idiotic.

theone86

Where did I decry Muslim society? I said extremists! E.x.t.r.e.m.i.s.t.s....... That goes for any "religion" or non religion. Sheesh.

The person we're talking about isn't an extremist, he's a prejudiced individual whose prejudices are supported by religion. I agree with the poster you're arguing with, she should have expected that kind of reaction, that is just common sense given the views still held by some Muslims. The issue isn't whether or not she should expect it, the issue is that she's trying to change that expectation by doing what she did anyways.

We all expect this reaction. I never argued that, I was merely implying that it is a dumb reaction and the people that react that way are morons. I don't care if it takes "forever" to change society, or how long it took Christian society. Wrong is just wrong, and that is that.

And anyone who says they would kill her is an extremist. Because that is extreme....

[QUOTE="m25105"]

[QUOTE="Serraph105"]

:lol: just :lol:

I know death threats aren't funny, but it's like they just realized there are slutty women in this world.

YellowOneKinobi

I don't think you understand how common honour killing is. The fact that she's the first Turkish woman to pose nude on a public magazine like Playboy is a pretty big deal.

There are almost 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. Say that there are 100 honor killings a year, that's a lot of women being killed no doubt. Still, if there were 100 Muslims carrying out honor killings that would be a miniscule number in proportion to the number of peaceful Muslims. Furthermore, honor killings are frequently carried out in groups, meaning that there are fewer Muslims actually supporting honor killings than there are honor killings, and that dynamic continues when you consider you can have repeat offenders carrying out honor killings. Hence honor killings can be both frequent and still restricted to a small segment of the Muslim population.

I just realised the radicals are enraged over the internet :lol:

[QUOTE="theone86"]

No I don't think that, Fred Phelps doesn't speak for the Christians who go to Church down the block for me (whom I find almost as idiotic) than this ignorant Muslim talking about killing this woman speaks for the rest of Islam. If you really think that all organized religion is just a bunch of idiots and bigots then why don't you come out and say it. My problem is less that you hold that opinion and more that your rhetoric empowers religious bigots who only want to establish Christianity as superior. Just come out and talk down about religion in general instead of Islam or Christianity seperately, I guarantee you have fewer simple-minded supporters praising you because your opinion supports their prejudice.

Omni-Slash

Hooray for strawmen, suddenly I want to restrict your freedom of speech, even though I never said that.

You're empowering prejudice whether you want to admit it or not. For one, you're openly prejudiced against all religion as evidenced by your previous statements. What's worse, though, is that by criticizing Islam exclusively and acting as if Christianity is any different you're empowering people who simply want to act as if their religion is superior to everyone else's.

Christianity did horriendous things....the problem is did....there aren't Christian's strapping bombs to themselves in teh current world and targetting children...women.....whatever....Omni-Slash

You should look up the Christian Identity movement.

Here's a good occasion for her to switch to Christianity.Crimsader

Hooray for strawmen, suddenly I want to restrict your freedom of speech, even though I never said that.

You're empowering prejudice whether you want to admit it or not. For one, you're openly prejudiced against all religion as evidenced by your previous statements. What's worse, though, is that by criticizing Islam exclusively and acting as if Christianity is any different you're empowering people who simply want to act as if their religion is superior to everyone else's.

To be expected really, which is sad in 2011.

But surely if she is posing for Playboy she is not really Muslim? It's a religion not a race.

I don't think you understand how common honour killing is. The fact that she's the first Turkish woman to pose nude on a public magazine like Playboy is a pretty big deal.

m25105

I know it's not Islam.

Most Indians practice Hinduism, supposedly (never been there). I do think there is a connection though. It's the same planet and they're in a close proximity to each other. Not like the Americans with oceans in the way. So, maybe they're using each other as support for this sort of thing. The saying "everybody's doing it" comes to mind.

She's a brave woman, good for her.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="Zyrokin"]

The person we're talking about isn't an extremist, he's a prejudiced individual whose prejudices are supported by religion. I agree with the poster you're arguing with, she should have expected that kind of reaction, that is just common sense given the views still held by some Muslims. The issue isn't whether or not she should expect it, the issue is that she's trying to change that expectation by doing what she did anyways.

Zyrokin

We all expect this reaction. I never argued that, I was merely implying that it is a dumb reaction and the people that react that way are morons. I don't care if it takes "forever" to change society, or how long it took Christian society. Wrong is just wrong, and that is that.

And anyone who says they would kill her is an extremist. Because that is extreme....

Extremists are people who carry out violent actions in support of extreme views, not people who hold extreme views.

Wrong is not wrong, wrong is relative. I won't argue that there are things that can transcend different systems of morality, such as killing a woman for expressing herself sexually being wrong, but without a cultural understanding of why that's wrong it means nothing. There's a word for doing something arbitrarily and without an understanding of why you're doing it, it's called being dogmatic. That's why idiots are saying they would kill her, and if they were doing the right thing dogmatically it wouldn't alleviate the problems as they still lack a cultural understanding of why it's wrong. It's regrettable, but it's how society works. The only thing concerned people can do is support people within any given culture who want to change things for the better, like this woman. Instead of focusing on the positives, that an Islamic woman is taking a stand for empowerment, that she's trying to change the culture, ignorant bigots are using this as yet another platform to tout their cultural superiority and disparage cultures that they view as inferior.

She's a brave woman, good for her.

airshocker

See, at least someone gets it.

Well it is against the culture...

*looks at picture*

I think they should let this one slide >.>

[QUOTE="m25105"]

I don't think you understand how common honour killing is. The fact that she's the first Turkish woman to pose nude on a public magazine like Playboy is a pretty big deal.

BranKetra

I know it's not Islam.

Most Indians practice Hinduism, supposedly (never been there). I do think there is a connection though. It's the same planet and they're in a close proximity to each other. Not like the Americans with oceans in the way. So, maybe they're using each other as support for this sort of thing. The saying "everybody's doing it" comes to mind.

Sati was rare back in the nineteenth century when British colonization of Europe was happening and it's virtually non-existent today. This is just another example of a niche practice being blown out of proportion to support a myth of cultural superiority. As if western culture was any better, we captured human beings and shipped them into a life of hard labor in inhumane conditions, commited genocide by killing natives whose land we wanted and wiping out their methods of subsistence, violently subdued people in the name of imperialism, killed our own citizens for protesting despite pretenses of freedom of speech, and done countless other things that we now look, at least in principle, as barbaric. We don't own any natural superiority.

Good for her.

heysharpshooter

Sexay.

only muslim (extreme....not so extreme or whatever).. guys would see a gorgeous half naked female and the first thing they would think is that the need to kill her....Omni-Slash

Actually, there are plenty of Christians throughout history that felt the same way. Hell, the Amish are just as conservative in the type of clothing htey allow women to wear, I don't see anyone criticizing them the same way people are criticizing the burka.

At least she realizes that Muslim women are put down too much.[QUOTE="theone86"]

Sexay.

[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]only muslim (extreme....not so extreme or whatever).. guys would see a gorgeous half naked female and the first thing they would think is that the need to kill her....00-Riddick-00

Actually, there are plenty of Christians throughout history that felt the same way. Hell, the Amish are just as conservative in the type of clothing htey allow women to wear, I don't see anyone criticizing them the same way people are criticizing the burka.

Oh my bad, misunderstood the post. The withc hunts perpetrated by American Christians often had undertones of sexism and killing women for not conforming to cultural expectations of women, is Christianity now a barbaric religion because of that?

oh look barbarians being barbaric... theres a shock :roll:

[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]Christianity did horriendous things....the problem is did....there aren't Christian's strapping bombs to themselves in teh current world and targetting children...women.....whatever....worlock77

You should look up the Christian Identity movement.

Well it is against the culture...

*looks at picture*

I think they should let this one slide >.>

mrmusicman247

I agree :P

[QUOTE="BranKetra"]

[QUOTE="m25105"]

I don't think you understand how common honour killing is. The fact that she's the first Turkish woman to pose nude on a public magazine like Playboy is a pretty big deal.

theone86

I know it's not Islam.

Most Indians practice Hinduism, supposedly (never been there). I do think there is a connection though. It's the same planet and they're in a close proximity to each other. Not like the Americans with oceans in the way. So, maybe they're using each other as support for this sort of thing. The saying "everybody's doing it" comes to mind.

Sati was rare back in the nineteenth century when British colonization of Europe was happening and it's virtually non-existent today. Yeah, I heard that. This is just another example of a niche practice being blown out of proportion to support a myth of cultural superiority...Some people might do that, but I wasn't.I just noticed the similaritiesand felt like mentioning them. Anyway, if people want to live that way and support that culture, it's their choice. The consequences are theirs.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]Christianity did horriendous things....the problem is did....there aren't Christian's strapping bombs to themselves in teh current world and targetting children...women.....whatever....00-Riddick-00

You should look up the Christian Identity movement.

I bet you scoff at those who say terrorists aren't real Muslims don't you?

Lots of bigots in this thread. And you guys wonder why the rest of the world hates us.:roll:

Cultural values are relative. Posing in a nudie magazine may be fine for Westerners, but not all cultures are as accepting of promiscuity as we are.

oh look barbarians being barbaric... theres a shock :roll:

z4twenny

[QUOTE="00-Riddick-00"]At least she realizes that Muslim women are put down too much.[QUOTE="theone86"]

Actually, there are plenty of Christians throughout history that felt the same way. Hell, the Amish are just as conservative in the type of clothing htey allow women to wear, I don't see anyone criticizing them the same way people are criticizing the burka.

Oh my bad, misunderstood the post. The withc hunts perpetrated by American Christians often had undertones of sexism and killing women for not conforming to cultural expectations of women, is Christianity now a barbaric religion because of that?

Lots of bigots in this thread. And you guys wonder why the rest of the world hates us.:roll:

Cultural values are relative. Posing in a nudie magazine may be fine for Westerners, but not all cultures are as accepting of promiscuity as we are.

Darkwanderer000

The things I'd do to that woman...and kill would certainly not be one of them.SaintLeonidas

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]Christianity did horriendous things....the problem is did....there aren't Christian's strapping bombs to themselves in teh current world and targetting children...women.....whatever....00-Riddick-00

You should look up the Christian Identity movement.

You can't subjectively define religion as adhering to one point of view, that's why so many sects exist today. Letherans wouldn't exist if not for Luther trying to define "true" Christians, Calvinists wouldn't exist if not for Calvin trying to do the same thing, the Catholic Church tries to do the same thing by appealing to the authority of the Pope, and ALL of those groups have denominations within them that try to do the exact same thing in different ways. There is no way of determining a "true" Christian other than a belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

oh look barbarians being barbaric... theres a shock :roll:

[QUOTE="Darkwanderer000"]

Lots of bigots in this thread. And you guys wonder why the rest of the world hates us.:roll:

Cultural values are relative. Posing in a nudie magazine may be fine for Westerners, but not all cultures are as accepting of promiscuity as we are.

YellowOneKinobi

He didn't say that, but thanks for the strawman.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

[QUOTE="Darkwanderer000"]

Lots of bigots in this thread. And you guys wonder why the rest of the world hates us.:roll:

Cultural values are relative. Posing in a nudie magazine may be fine for Westerners, but not all cultures are as accepting of promiscuity as we are.

theone86

He didn't say that, but thanks for the strawman.

only muslim (extreme....not so extreme or whatever).. guys would see a gorgeous half naked female and the first thing they would think is that the need to kill her....Omni-Slash

From the Article:

But Islamic internet sites are being monitored by the BND - the German intelligence agency - after threats were posted about her "shaming Muslim womanhood" and "prostituting herself for money".

One poster on the Jihad Watch website wrote: "She needs to be very careful..." Another simply said: "She must pay."

A kebab shop owner, asked on German TV what he would do if Sila were his daughter, replied: "I would kill her. I really mean that. That doesn't fit with my culture."

Link

YellowOneKinobi

Personally I think this kind of stuff (i.e. posting death threats, declaring fatwas, etc) just turns public opinion against Muslims.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="00-Riddick-00"] But do they threaten to kill people for dressing a certain way?00-Riddick-00

Oh my bad, misunderstood the post. The withc hunts perpetrated by American Christians often had undertones of sexism and killing women for not conforming to cultural expectations of women, is Christianity now a barbaric religion because of that?

It doesn't matter, you can't judge a culture based on your own cultural standards. Oh guess what, European nations outlawed slavery before America did, I guess all Americans are barbaric. Progress happens at different paces for different societies, for us it took centuries, CENTURIES okay, we didn't just wake up one day and go, "hey, you know what, I think women are completely equal with men," it took centuries for us to get where we are today. Futhermore, the starting point is completely arbitrary, the only reason the process of change started where it did was because some scientist dug up ancient astronomical observations and said, "you know what, I think earth might revolve around the sun." Before that there was NO social progress because science was reliant on religious mysticism and therefore all of society emanated from religious dogma. If it had taken fifty more years for Europeans to discover this then you and I would be sitting here saying that a woman belongs in the kitchen.

She looks sexy. On the point, as Muslim I'd prefer if she didn't claim to be a Muslim and pose nude at the same time. Maybe she is a Muslim I can't and won't judge her. I'll leave that to Allah.