Obama Ad backfires

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="bdever32"]

That is the problem. McCain releases ad after ad of lying crap about Obama, and somehow that is perfectly acceptable. Everytime Obama has an ad, McCain pulls out one of his many cards and throws it on the table.

clicketyclick

Oh boy, you're going to have to explain this one. Which ads have been lies, exactly?

In my opinion a huge one would be the fact McCain calling himself and Pallin, "mavricks".. Which is complete bs

Even if you consider it to be a lie, that is not a lie about Obama.

(And by the way, I think you have to research McCain's stance on torture a little more thoroughly.)

... We are talking about ads lieing.. In general.. It is odvious ALL POLITICAL ADS REGARDLESS OF THE PARTY at very elast STRETCH the truth or misinterpret something.

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="bdever32"]

McCain releases ad after ad of lying crap about Obama

sSubZerOo

Oh boy, you're going to have to explain this one. Which ads have been lies, exactly?

In my opinion a huge one would be the fact McCain calling himself and Pallin, "mavricks".. Which is complete bs

Even if you consider it to be a lie, that is not a lie about Obama.

(And by the way, I think you have to research McCain's stance on torture a little more thoroughly.)

... We are talking about ads lieing.. In general..

Nope, we're talking about Republican ads lying about Obama, as evidenced by the quote series.

Could somebody say what McCains stance on torture is? I have a feeling that will start even more debate but anyway...leejohnson7

Try this link for a good summary of McCain's statements on the issue of torture.

As for the allegation of altering his stance on torture (which sSubZeroo put forward here), that is incorrect (which is why I suggested that he has to research it some more):

As with most political attacks, it turned a grain of truth into a misleading landslide of overheated accusation. A review of the record shows that McCain has neither changed his position on torture nor taken sides with President Bush on the substance of the issue.

At issue is a Democratic proposal to require the U.S. intelligence community to limit its interrogation techniques to those contained in a military training book called the Army Field Manual. Several Democrats who have received classified briefings on the current CIA interrogation program have said that the U.S. continues to approve of methods that they believe to be immoral and illegal. The CIA will not discuss the methods, except to say that waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning historically considered to be illegal, is no longer employed.

McCain has long argued that the Bush Administration overstepped its legal authority by approving techniques like waterboarding, and has successfully championed two efforts to try to limit the White House to the plain language of international treaties, which ban cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. McCain has also spoken in opposition to other techniques in the CIA arsenal like sleep deprivation and the use of stress positions, both of which were employed by the North Vietnamese during McCain's captivity as a prisoner of war and may still be employed by the CIA.

But on this latest piece of legislation, which arose during the heat of the primary campaign and may surface again later this month, McCain sided with Bush in opposing a further restriction of CIA techniques.

Despite the claims of some partisans, McCain's decision was not a flip-flop, but rather the continuation of a position he took in 2005 when he first championed a bill to restrict the Bush Administration's ability to mistreat detainees. "The field manual, a public document written for military use, is not always directly translatable to use by intelligence officers," McCain explained in February, reiterating his position from 2005. He added that the CIA should be allowed to use "alternative interrogation techniques," that are not otherwise outlawed as unduly coercive, cruel, inhumane or degrading. McCain has not publicly described the techniques that he believes fall into that category.TIME

Please continue reading for more information.

So nobody can come up with one ad McCain has released that lies about Obama? mysterylobster

the sex-ed ad by McCain

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]So nobody can come up with one ad McCain has released that lies about Obama? alexmurray

the sex-ed ad by McCain

What part is a lie??

So nobody can come up with one ad McCain has released that lies about Obama? mysterylobster

There was one that said he supported sex education for kindergardners, but actually is was a bill to teach kids about avoiding sex predators.

Then there was one that said Obama cancelled a visit to see wounded veterans because they wouldn't allow cameras. Which turned out to be completley false.

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]So nobody can come up with one ad McCain has released that lies about Obama? clicketyclick

the sex-ed ad by McCain

What part is a lie??

the whole ad, obama wants too teach them that people in the world want to touch them

McCain said he was teaching them full sex-ed

There was one that said he supported sex education for kindergardners, but actually is was a bill to teach kids about avoiding sex predators.

Then there was one that said Obama cancelled a visit to see wounded veterans because they wouldn't allow cameras. Which turned out to be completley false.

Sajo7

False. The legislation was to provide "comprehensive sex education" (direct quote from the piece of legislation) to kindergarten students, including infomation about predators, but also including "medical" and "scientific" information about sex.

I believe the ad stated that Obama cancelled the visit after being informed that cameras were not allowed. This is true.

[QUOTE="leejohnson7"]Could somebody say what McCains stance on torture is? I have a feeling that will start even more debate but anyway...clicketyclick

Try this link for a good summary of McCain's statements on the issue of torture.

As for the allegation of altering his stance on torture (which sSubZeroo put forward here), that is incorrect (which is why I suggested that he has to research it some more):

As with most political attacks, it turned a grain of truth into a misleading landslide of overheated accusation. A review of the record shows that McCain has neither changed his position on torture nor taken sides with President Bush on the substance of the issue.

At issue is a Democratic proposal to require the U.S. intelligence community to limit its interrogation techniques to those contained in a military training book called the Army Field Manual. Several Democrats who have received classified briefings on the current CIA interrogation program have said that the U.S. continues to approve of methods that they believe to be immoral and illegal. The CIA will not discuss the methods, except to say that waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning historically considered to be illegal, is no longer employed.

McCain has long argued that the Bush Administration overstepped its legal authority by approving techniques like waterboarding, and has successfully championed two efforts to try to limit the White House to the plain language of international treaties, which ban cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. McCain has also spoken in opposition to other techniques in the CIA arsenal like sleep deprivation and the use of stress positions, both of which were employed by the North Vietnamese during McCain's captivity as a prisoner of war and may still be employed by the CIA.

But on this latest piece of legislation, which arose during the heat of the primary campaign and may surface again later this month, McCain sided with Bush in opposing a further restriction of CIA techniques.

Despite the claims of some partisans, McCain's decision was not a flip-flop, but rather the continuation of a position he took in 2005 when he first championed a bill to restrict the Bush Administration's ability to mistreat detainees. "The field manual, a public document written for military use, is not always directly translatable to use by intelligence officers," McCain explained in February, reiterating his position from 2005. He added that the CIA should be allowed to use "alternative interrogation techniques," that are not otherwise outlawed as unduly coercive, cruel, inhumane or degrading. McCain has not publicly described the techniques that he believes fall into that category.TIME

Please continue reading for more information.

Wow, so it is still legal for the government to torture people regardless. I find it amazing that people these days have the balls to talk about freedom and civil rights.

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]So nobody can come up with one ad McCain has released that lies about Obama? Sajo7

There was one that said he supported sex education for kindergardners, but actually is was a bill to teach kids about avoiding sex predators.

Then there was one that said Obama cancelled a visit to see wounded veterans because they wouldn't allow cameras. Which turned out to be completley false.

Wrong. If you actually read the curriculum, you'll see this "sexual predator" defense is a complete and utter lie. The plan allowed for kids age 5 to 8 to be taught about a variety of sexual subjects, including masturbation

I'm not familiar with the other ad.

[QUOTE="Sajo7"]

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]So nobody can come up with one ad McCain has released that lies about Obama? mysterylobster

There was one that said he supported sex education for kindergardners, but actually is was a bill to teach kids about avoiding sex predators.

Then there was one that said Obama cancelled a visit to see wounded veterans because they wouldn't allow cameras. Which turned out to be completley false.

Wrong. If you actually read the curriculum, you'll see this "sexual predator" defense is a complete and utter lie. The plan allowed for kids age 5 to 8 to be taught about a variety of sexual subjects, including masturbation

I'm not familiar with the other ad.

Actually you are wrong. He had stated that the sex education was to be age appropriate and under the proposal the topics you mentioned would be reserved for older kids.

[QUOTE="Sajo7"]

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]So nobody can come up with one ad McCain has released that lies about Obama? mysterylobster

There was one that said he supported sex education for kindergardners, but actually is was a bill to teach kids about avoiding sex predators.

Then there was one that said Obama cancelled a visit to see wounded veterans because they wouldn't allow cameras. Which turned out to be completley false.

Wrong. If you actually read the curriculum, you'll see this "sexual predator" defense is a complete and utter lie. The plan allowed for kids age 5 to 8 to be taught about a variety of sexual subjects, including masturbation

I'm not familiar with the other ad.

Im sorry you think Obama would want to teach kids that, its age appropriate,

at least he has a better sex-ed program than Palin

[QUOTE="mfacek"]As embarressing and wrong as the ad was. It isn't intentionally making fun of disabled people. If that's true about Mccain, it was purely an error, not some spiteful hurtful attack, so don't make it sound like such.mysterylobster

We're talking about a man who called the woman running against him a pig.

She's worse than that.

[QUOTE="mfacek"]As embarressing and wrong as the ad was. It isn't intentionally making fun of disabled people. If that's true about Mccain, it was purely an error, not some spiteful hurtful attack, so don't make it sound like such.mysterylobster

We're talking about a man who called the woman running against him a pig.

He didnt, McCain has used that phrase many times, he didn't even mention Palin he was comparing Bush and McCain.

McCain played the sexist card to get a day in the media, A day when Obama is in the news is a bad day for McCain

Even Bill o'rilley and Mike Huckabee Said its just a saying

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]

[QUOTE="mfacek"]As embarressing and wrong as the ad was. It isn't intentionally making fun of disabled people. If that's true about Mccain, it was purely an error, not some spiteful hurtful attack, so don't make it sound like such.alexmurray

We're talking about a man who called the woman running against him a pig.

He didnt, McCain has used that phrase many times, he didn't even mention Palin he was comparing Bush and McCain.

McCain played the sexist card to get a day in the media, A day when Obama is in the news is a bad day for McCain

Even Bill o'rilley and Mike Huckabee Said its just a saying

Alexmurray, don't even try to reason with him. It's obvious he would never vote for Obama anyway, and is just kicking a dead horse. Let him pretend that's what Obama meant, and to be honest I think he probably knows it's not true.

So nobody can come up with one ad McCain has released that lies about Obama? mysterylobster

Well that's because McCain, for the most part, hasn't been lying but using choice words in his ads.

Actually you are wrong. He had stated that the sex education was to be age appropriate and under the proposal the topics you mentioned would be reserved for older kids.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/us/politics/11checkpoint.html?bl&ex=1221278400&en=139555dd265b8c71&ei=5087%0A

GreatDecay

What Obama states and what the legislation states then do not agree.

• "Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV."

• "Course material and instruction shall present the latest medically factual information regarding both the possible side effects and health benefits of all forms of contraception, including the success and failure rates for the prevention of pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections, including HIV."

• "Course material and instruction shall teach male pupils about male accountability for sexual violence and shall teach female students about reducing vulnerability for sexual violence."

Just some quotes from the legislation. Recognising predators and unwanted touching was only part of the planned program. After all, it was supposed to be "comprehensive".

If you think that McCain ad about the sex ed is accurate then you really need to do a little bit more research. FactCheck.org has a great article about this topic and I think you should read it before making any more false comments. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.htmlbdever32

I've read it before. Their facts are correct, but their conclusion is not borne out by the facts they present.

This is the part of the article I find the most interesting:

"Obama, contrary to the ad's insinuation, does not support explicit sex education for kindergarteners. And the bill, which would have allowed only "age appropriate" material and a no-questions-asked opt-out policy for parents, was not his accomplishment to claim in any case, since he was not even a cosponsor – and the bill never left the state Senate."

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="Sajo7"]

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]So nobody can come up with one ad McCain has released that lies about Obama? alexmurray

There was one that said he supported sex education for kindergardners, but actually is was a bill to teach kids about avoiding sex predators.

Then there was one that said Obama cancelled a visit to see wounded veterans because they wouldn't allow cameras. Which turned out to be completley false.

Wrong. If you actually read the curriculum, you'll see this "sexual predator" defense is a complete and utter lie. The plan allowed for kids age 5 to 8 to be taught about a variety of sexual subjects, including masturbation

I'm not familiar with the other ad.

Im sorry you think Obama would want to teach kids that, its age appropriate,

at least he has a better sex-ed program than Palin

How can masturbation ever be "age appropriate" for 6 year-olds? Really.

[QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="Sajo7"]

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]So nobody can come up with one ad McCain has released that lies about Obama? mysterylobster

There was one that said he supported sex education for kindergardners, but actually is was a bill to teach kids about avoiding sex predators.

Then there was one that said Obama cancelled a visit to see wounded veterans because they wouldn't allow cameras. Which turned out to be completley false.

Wrong. If you actually read the curriculum, you'll see this "sexual predator" defense is a complete and utter lie. The plan allowed for kids age 5 to 8 to be taught about a variety of sexual subjects, including masturbation

I'm not familiar with the other ad.

Im sorry you think Obama would want to teach kids that, its age appropriate,

at least he has a better sex-ed program than Palin

How can masturbation ever be "age appropriate" for 6 year-olds? Really.

He didnt teach them that:?

[QUOTE="alexmurray"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="Sajo7"]

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"]So nobody can come up with one ad McCain has released that lies about Obama? mysterylobster

There was one that said he supported sex education for kindergardners, but actually is was a bill to teach kids about avoiding sex predators.

Then there was one that said Obama cancelled a visit to see wounded veterans because they wouldn't allow cameras. Which turned out to be completley false.

Wrong. If you actually read the curriculum, you'll see this "sexual predator" defense is a complete and utter lie. The plan allowed for kids age 5 to 8 to be taught about a variety of sexual subjects, including masturbation

I'm not familiar with the other ad.

Im sorry you think Obama would want to teach kids that, its age appropriate,

at least he has a better sex-ed program than Palin

How can masturbation ever be "age appropriate" for 6 year-olds? Really.

Reading comprehension FTW.

He didn't say masturbation was "age appropriate" for kindergardeners, but that the subjects they would be taught would be age appropriate.

This is the part of the article I find the most interesting:

"Obama, contrary to the ad's insinuation, does not support explicit sex education for kindergarteners. And the bill, which would have allowed only "age appropriate" material and a no-questions-asked opt-out policy for parents, was not his accomplishment to claim in any case, since he was not even a cosponsor – and the bill never left the state Senate."

bdever32

Relevance?

Relevance?

clicketyclick

The relevance being that #1 the McCain ad was a blatant lie, and #2 the sex ed bill wasn't even Obama's

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"]

Relevance?

bdever32

The relevance being that #1 the McCain ad was a blatant lie

How do you come to that conclusion?

[QUOTE="bdever32"][QUOTE="clicketyclick"]

Relevance?

clicketyclick

The relevance being that #1 the McCain ad was a blatant lie

How do you come to that conclusion?

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="bdever32"][QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="bdever32"]

This is the part of the article I find the most interesting:he was not even a cosponsor – and the bill never left the state Senate."

bdever32

Relevance?

The relevance being that #1 the McCain ad was a blatant lie

How do you come to that conclusion?

I came to that conclusion because it is a fact. Are you really going to sit there and tell me that Obama believes that kindergartners should receive the complete sexual education that older students receive?

You have failed to explain the relevance of the fact that he wasn't a cosponsor.

If you think that McCain ad about the sex ed is accurate then you really need to do a little bit more research. FactCheck.org has a great article about this topic and I think you should read it before making any more false comments. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.htmlbdever32

Some people just REALLY want to believe.

Some people just REALLY want to believe.

duxup

Care to explain, or just sneer condescendingly at those who disagree?

[QUOTE="duxup"]

Some people just REALLY want to believe.

clicketyclick

Care to explain, or just sneer condescendingly at those who disagree?

Just a statement of fact. Don't read too much into it.

[QUOTE="duxup"]

Some people just REALLY want to believe.

clicketyclick

Care to explain, or just sneer condescendingly at those who disagree?

Why are you still arguing? McCain made it up

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="duxup"]

Some people just REALLY want to believe.

alexmurray

Care to explain, or just sneer condescendingly at those who disagree?

Why are you still arguing? McCain made it up

Made what up?

Back on topic.

MYSTERYLOBSTER - you might want to add this to the original post:

Obama's "Still" ad claims that McCain "Can't send an email" and cites the New York Times 7/13/08 as the source.

Well guess what, that's not what it says.

Mr. McCain: I use the Blackberry, but I don't e-mail, I've never felt the particular need to e-mail. I read e-mails all the time, but the communications that I have with my friends and staff are oral and done with my cell phone. I have the luxury of being in contact with them literally all the time. We now have a phone on the plane that is usable on the plane, so I just never really felt a need to do it.

But I do – could I just say, really – I understand the impact of blogs on American politics today and political campaigns. I understand that. And I understand that something appears on one blog, can ricochet all around and get into the evening news, the front page of The New York Times. So, I do pay attention to the blogs. And I am not in any way unappreciative of the impact that they have on entire campaigns and world opinion. (Source)New York Times

So he doesn't email out, not because he can't, but because he doesn't want to. Also, he reads emails. Distortion much? He also says that he reads Politico, Drudge Report, and RealPolitics online.

Here's another interesting tidbit from Forbes. You know, that little backwater magazine.

In certain ways, McCain was a natural Web candidate. Chairman of the Senate Telecommunications Subcommittee and regarded as the U.S. Senate's savviest technologist, McCain is an inveterate devotee of email. His nightly ritual is to read his email together with his wife, Cindy. The injuries he incurred as a Vietnam POW make it painful for McCain to type. Instead, he dictates responses that his wife types on a laptop. "She's a whiz on the keyboard, and I'm so laborious," McCain admits.(Source)Forbes

So McCain was called the Senate's "savviest technologist" by Forbes. It also says that "McCain himself was convinced early on that the Internet had to play a critical role in the campaign." Carrying on with that, a citation from a book:

John McCain's insurgent Republican presidential bid in 2000 (was) ... the first national campaign to attempt to make use of the Internet. (page 59) (Source)Democracy the Internet and the Overthrow of Everything

There is no question that McCain is technologically savvy enough to lead the country. All claims to the contrary stink of desperation.

Oh goodness, it's worse than I thought. Just watch Bill Hemmer tear into this slime slinger for Obama:

making fun of disabled ppl? good lord that's a load. The ad is saying he's not with the times using quotes from McCain.

making fun of disabled ppl? good lord that's a load. The ad is saying he's not with the times using quotes from McCain.

Ontain

Obama didn't know his disabilities limited his computer use.

[QUOTE="Ontain"]

making fun of disabled ppl? good lord that's a load. The ad is saying he's not with the times using quotes from McCain.

Funky_Llama

Obama didn't know his disabilities limited his computer use.

Look at the video in my last post. The spokesman said they had read articles that specifically mention the disability, even thought he avoids answering the question directly.

I find it funny that 0bama says McCain is running the more dishonest campaign. Does he not pay attention to what his own people are saying and doing?

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Ontain"]

making fun of disabled ppl? good lord that's a load. The ad is saying he's not with the times using quotes from McCain.

mysterylobster

Obama didn't know his disabilities limited his computer use.

Look at the video in my last post. The spokesman said they had read articles that specifically mention the disability, even thought he avoids answering the question directly.

that's still not the point of the ad. besides I had a computer science professor with 1 hand and he still knew about computers. typing isn't knowing about computers.

[QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Ontain"]

making fun of disabled ppl? good lord that's a load. The ad is saying he's not with the times using quotes from McCain.

Ontain

Obama didn't know his disabilities limited his computer use.

Look at the video in my last post. The spokesman said they had read articles that specifically mention the disability, even thought he avoids answering the question directly.

that's still not the point of the ad. besides I had a computer science professor with 1 hand and he still knew about computers. typing isn't knowing about computers.

They could have made the point without picking on an elderly, disabled war vet for his lack of computer skills. This is gutter politics and rank dishonesty.

making fun of disabled ppl? good lord that's a load. The ad is saying he's not with the times using quotes from McCain.

Ontain

Read my post above. Obama's ad completely mischaracterises the McCain interview.

Obama didn't know his disabilities limited his computer use.

Funky_Llama

Oh really? Check mysterylobster's post above and his link.

Considering how internet savvy Obama's Campaign likes to make him out to be, they really failed miserably at google-searching, which would have quickly revealed to them that McCain's injuries are the reason why he doesn't use a keyboard and that McCain is considered to be the most technologically savvy member of Senate, was the first to use the internet in his campaign, and reads blogs and email regularly.

There is a difference from being physically impaired from using a computer, and mentally not knowing how to use one. That Senator McCain is not currently knowledgeable about basic mainstream technologies like computers and email is a relevant point towards his qualifications for the office of which he is seeking. It's like someone not being aware of the significance of the Industrial Revolution twenty years after it happened. Edit: Pointing out this lack of knowledge is also very different from making fun of a physical impairment.nocoolnamejim

Jim, imagine for a moment that you didn't have legs, then they invented the Bicycle. Would you want to spend the time learning how to do something that you could not phsyically use? Your time would be better spent doing something else productive instead of trying to use something you can't phsyically use.

Jim, imagine for a moment that you didn't have legs, then they invented the Bicycle. Would you want to spend the time learning how to do something that you could not phsyically use? Your time would be better spent doing something else productive instead of trying to use something you can't phsyically use.

hokies1313

Turns out he is learning, despite his injuries. The Obama ad completely misrepresents the sources it cites. The source for saying that he can't use email actually states that he checks his email regularly and reads online blogs. Forbes called him the most technologically savvy member of Senate and says that he recognised early on the potential for the internet in campaigns. His campaign was the first to use the internet.

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="mysterylobster"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Ontain"]

making fun of disabled ppl? good lord that's a load. The ad is saying he's not with the times using quotes from McCain.

mysterylobster

Obama didn't know his disabilities limited his computer use.

Look at the video in my last post. The spokesman said they had read articles that specifically mention the disability, even thought he avoids answering the question directly.

that's still not the point of the ad. besides I had a computer science professor with 1 hand and he still knew about computers. typing isn't knowing about computers.

They could have made the point without picking on an elderly, disabled war vet for his lack of computer skills. This is gutter politics and rank dishonesty.

Maybe he shouldn't be running for president then??? I know its a UNHEARD IDEA after all.. But his lack of computer skills and apparent disinterest in technology can certainly be called into play when we are talking about a position that has in his control the most powerful things in the world.. 99% all controled by computers and technology.. We all respect war vets, but that doesn't mean they should get special treatement for a job.

You know what the most disgusting thing about that video I posted is? Watch it and see how when confronted, the Obama spokesman disparages McCain's disabilities by saying he's "trying to learn" the email, so therefore he must not be really disabled.

Maybe he shouldn't be running for president then??? I know its a UNHEARD IDEA after all.. But his lack of computer skills and apparent disinterest in technology can certainly be called into play when we are talking about a position that has in his control the most powerful things in the world.. 99% all controled by computers and technology.. We all respect war vets, but that doesn't mean they should get special treatement for a job.

sSubZerOo

Wait, hold the phone. The thing is, McCain is NOT disinterested in technology, and does use email with his wife's assistance. This whole thing stems from a few statements McCain made in which he expresses his humble gratitutude to his wife Cindy when asked about his computer use. He may not know the nuts and bolts of basic computing, but he certainly knows their importance in modern life.